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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => DF Reference Collection => Topic started by: Ms Duck on June 10, 2012, 08:25:51 PM

Title: A Badelynge of Quackiness [spoilers for every book Jim ever wrote or ever will]
Post by: Ms Duck on June 10, 2012, 08:25:51 PM

Believe it or not, some people have asked me to put a master index together again. So here goes nothing ! (like my repuatation or your sanity)

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Moly and Mab (updated for Cold Days) (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32663.msg1452169.html#msg1452169)
Mab and Little Chicago (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32663.msg1452190.html#msg1452190)
 Lovecraft Alliance (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32663.msg1452233.html#msg1452233)
 King Arthur and Harry (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32663.msg1452248.html#msg1452248)
Marcone and The Erling (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32663.msg1452282.html#msg1452282)
Gothic Vampires (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32663.msg1452318.html#msg1452318)
 Marci is Evil  (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32663.msg1452338.html#msg1452338)
 Pancake Universe (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32663.msg1701020.html#msg1701020)

(feel free to comment if you like. When i finish copy editing stuff, ill just add it to the index)

Further discussion may be found in "A Badelynge of Quackiness, Part Two (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,35811.0.html)" ^-Serack

Ms Duck,
As new Quackiness is generated, just say the word and the curators will facilitate its proper place in the Badelynge in a manor similar to how the "Pancake Universe" addition got in.  I like how the ongoing discussion of newer editions is contained in newer threads (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,35811.0.html), so in general pratice, this topic will remain locked when not trying to open formation for new editions to the Badelynge.  ^-Serack

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Ms Duck on June 10, 2012, 08:27:52 PM

Molly and Mab
By Ms. Duck
Theory, originally written after Small Favor

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Updated October 2012

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(http://www.fusion-freak.com/images/stories/2012-10/dani/pin_up/4xrrP_-_Imgur.jpg)

Quote

“You should not presume wizard. I adore Freedom. Anyone who doesn't have it wants it”

Weight of Evidence for Molly and Mab

   This all started with the headaches. Harry has them, we all know this. There have been a few suggestions as to why; Lash coming back, permanent brain damage at the end of WN, perhaps he has strained his magic too much, but then I realized we know at least one cause for this headaches; he has them in SF, when Mab messed with his head while she borrowed his blasting rod, and reprogrammed his head to forget he had ever had it.  While discussing this, I wondered well then, if she caused that headache, what else could have happened during the books that she could have taken or messed with?

   Which gives us, in discrete mathematics, our starting point?

   Statement: Mab caused the headaches.

   I am not saying this is the truth, I am stating it as the point of argument. In discrete math, you start with an assumption, then build on it one point at a time, as a test to determine if the original point is true. (For all rational numbers N, if N is F(N) is true, then F( N+1) is true; if you then can reverse it from the final conclusion, the theory is true ; this is called the principles of incursion and reduction.)

   So, following this point, what other headaches could have been caused by Mab? It was He Whom Walks who first noted that in the book Turn Coat, that little Chicago was not mentioned. Which is strange, as Harry was desperate to find Thomas; and in every other book, Harry mentions it in every other book, and it had been repaired form it's damage taken in WN as it was used in SF. Furthermore, when Harry does refer to the table, it is covered by a heavy tarp; which are the same words he used to describe his missing memories of the blasting rods on SF, page 312. And we know Mab caused those headaches, it describes the headaches, right on that very page.

   Additional point, Namshiel's missing coin. We have been assuming That either Marcone, Hendricks, or Gard took it. But Marcones says he did not, Hendricks has shown no signs of it, and Gard was driving. But what if there were other people on the island, undetectable to mortal eyes? Mab cannot interfere directly in mortal affairs,  but she can claim anything Harry owns or has rights to. His “life, his fortune, his future”; once he defeated Namshiel was defeated his coin by right of battle was Harry’s and Mab could step in and claim it. ( I will admit this one may be stretching things, but it’s just a side idea.)

   Statement :Mab fixed little Chicago in PG.

   This backtracks a bit, but it's a major mystery as yet unsolved. Someone, persons unknown, went into Harry's apartment, past his wards, past Bob, and fixed the error in LC that even Harry did not know about. It's also strangely the point that gets the most objections. Many people seem to think Harry himself fixed it unconsciously; and that neither he, nor Bob, nor the shadow Lash remember him doing it.   
   I do not consider this a question of unconscious action but an indicator of serious mental issues. Remember, magic requires active belief, concentration, and conscious  desire. That's why black magic is so addicting, you have to want things. That's not your id taking you for a sleep walk, that's an alternate personality.

   
   Neurovore's classic objection that either Lash or Lasciel did it has a similar flaw. If either the demoness or her shadow could control Harry that completely, he would still be bound by the coin. All they had to do was make him walk up, dig it up, and take it.

   Eb, Elaine, Ivy, or the Gatekeeper have a different problem; why would they have snick in, fixed things, and then disappeared? Why not stay around to help? Now it has been argued the Gatekeeper might have had issues with provoking the time line, but how did he get past the wards in the first place to get in?

   Lea had the motive, being an agent of Mab's and she was largely behind the events of PG, and Lea might have gotten thru the wards from her garden on the other side, but, Lea was an ice statue at the time.

   So how did Mab get past the threshold and the wards? I argue first the threshold was no impediment whatsoever.; Mab is the lawful owner of the property by the laws of Magic and Harry's own agreement. Even if that were the case, the threshold would not have slowed her down worth a darn.

   “even if there HAD been a threshold, it wouldn't have done diddly to stop any number of supernatural baddies.  The fetches in PG hammered down the /Carpenters'/ front door, and that's a threshold like the rock of firkin' Gibraltar.  The loup-garou sneered at such things.  A threshold wouldn't slow down a Denarian for a moment, nor would it stop ghouls, ogres, or any number of largely physical (as opposed to manifested spiritual) beings.  And even if the skinwalker had been something summoned from the Nevernever into a manifested physical body, the toad demon was one of those too, and IT stomped through Harry's pathetic threshold in the very first book”-JB

   Which leaves questions of how Mab got past the wards, Past Bob- something I consider a point in her favor actually; of all the suspects she could mess with Bob the easiest; and most importantly, how could she have predicted this chain of events?

   Statement: Mab knows what the future holds.

   

Quote

“One day, wizard, you will kneel at my feet and ask me to bestow the rank of knight upon you.”

   That Mab has foresight I consider a given. Considering she cannot lie, too many of her statements are made in the future tense for it  And she is not bound by the white council's laws of magic, but only by the laws of her own nature. But the manipulations Mab makes are more than just the machinations of someone with a gift of prophecy, she is too accurate at that, and at the same time, too bound.

   There is another possibility. Mab might be a time traveler. Assume someone traveled back in time, and that the laws of this world have some sort of limit on 'paradox'; much like the classic sci fi stories such as 'all you zombies'. The traveler would know, or remember, in some general sense what happens, but as they come closer and closer to their original moment of leaving they become more and more bound by paradox. .less and less free to take action.

   This would explain much. At the start of her time travel, she would be largely free to act, but would have to become more and more circumspect in her actions as she approached the event, and frankly, after being a god for who knows how long, this would tick you off. Quite a few people have speculated bought Lea's statement “ the doom that confronts us all”  and what deal the Black Council had made with Mab to tie her hands in such a manner she had to arrange PG just to be partly free of it. The answer, if I am correct, is it does not matter. Mab had to agree to such a deal, because she remembered she had agreed to this deal.

   Statement: Mab may be a time traveler.

   

Quote

“Well there is a whole law of magic about messing with time, and given it's a law of magic, Dresden is going to have to break it eventually.  “-JB

   Well then who is she?

   Well, we have some clues.

   First, JB has been planning something important between Molly and Winter since before the series was even published.

   

Quote

“If so, that would imply that I was thinking about seven years ahead.  I mean, I would have to be, to have written something like that back when I did Grave Peril, which was way before the books actually *sold*.  It would mean that I'm doing a lot of stuff on purpose, given that, you know, Molly actually wound up /in/ the Winter Queen's fortress, with Lea (Mab's chief advisor) actually /right there/”.   
   “Ask yourself why Mab had Molly brought in.  What chain of events did that set in motion?  What secondary effects came about because of it?  Ultimately, Mab can always go to the Wyld and draw in more muscle to replace fallen thugs.  If worst comes to worst, with just a few "seed" fae, she could rear up enough Changelings to repopulate her cadre within a human generation or two--nothing, to a being thousands of years old. “

   
   So let us consider secondary effects for a moment, not just In PG, but in TC. Assuming that Mab was the one who messed with LC, what did she gain? Well, it wasn't the rescue of Thomas for one. And as to Peabody, by now I'm certain she could have just sent Harry a dang note. Or offered him power, to save Thomas he might have taken it.

   What happened in TC? Harry made a pact with Demonreach, that's what happened.

   Statement: Demonreach is important to Harry's future, and Mab intended him to have it.

   Now we wander off completely into happy thought medication lands. There just isn't enough evidence to say why Mab wants harry to be part of Demonreach. We know too little. What we do know:

   The fey have an important sacrificial table, and when it formed into the real world, it formed over Lake Michigan. We have an ancient source of magical power, quite dark, on an island in.. Lake Michigan. And the island is old, damn old.

   

Quote

“They were not put there by Demonreach; they have been there a very long time.  They are pre-Council.  They’re a prehistoric script, actually.  Harry could have figured out the script if he’d had the comic book. NOTE: I think this has something to do with runes on a wall in Under City seen in Welcome to the Jungle

Also, people have a few things wrong about the Gatekeeper and the island.  The Gatekeeper did not hurt Demonreach.  Gatekeeper has been on the island a couple of times, and it’s never gone well, but he didn’t cause Demonreach’s limp.  That’s the work of the glacier that carved out Lake Michigan.”-Jb

   Statement: Mab is a mortal wizard who did an ascension ritual

   

Quote

“If (cowl) succeeded, he'd have had the collective power of all of those supernatural beings and then some.  He'd have been clearly stronger than the Ladies, and a full-on equal to Mab.  I mean, why do you think the Erlking was summoned as part of that ritual?  Because that's how the big E got so boss in the first place.   

For that matter, how do you think the Mothers and Queens and Ladies established their original base of power?  That big old sacrificial, power-sucking stone table in Tir na noth isn't there for its primitive decorative aesthetic.”-JB

Quote

“I am Mab. I am Sidhe”-Mab

Quote

“all the fae are a little bit mortal.”

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“ Depends on how much influence he has in the world.  That’s how the Sidhe gain their size and power.  Mab wasn’t always as big as she is now. :D”

   Now there are some other facts. :

   

Quote

“The thing is that Mab never really figures Dresden quite right.  She never gets it right when she tries to predict what he will do.  But Small Favor turned out really well for her.”

   Whom else do we know that is in love with Harry and could be described just the same? And not, JB said Harry will break the laws of time, not Molly. Mab herself refers to it in SF, with “Whatever your past, whatever your future..” I thought at first she meant his personal past, but what if in the past, he did something?

   

Quote

“ But Harry will regret every having set foot on that island.  Of course, Harry regrets just about anything he’s ever done.”-JB

   Statement:

Quote

“Mab is one of her true names.”- JB

   Margaret Katherine Amanda Carpenter.. Mab, or more properly Meab, is old English short for Margaret. And then there is her looks, and the hair ( started many colors, is now tinged with white and blue at the ends.) and how her powers are in enchantment, illusion, glamour and mental magic’s..

   The Theory:

   At some time in the future, Harry and Molly will be forced to experiment with time travel, quite probably involving demon reach. Harry will screw something up, and leave Molly behind, or lost in time, 100,000 years ago.. she becomes Sidhe, and ascends, to come back to him..

   

Quote

Mine ! Mine ! Mine !

- Nuff said.

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Edit and Update:

The idea came to me in a game we played sometime between the publishing of SmF and TC. It was then later updated for TC. Since the publication of Changes and Aftermath, I think we can add some more into it:

Why Demonreach?

   Because Mab knew Harry was going to be shot. Demonreach is a source of magic; dark and dangerous magic. By the statement of the gatekeeper, it is not on a ley line, it is the well from which the line comes. Now there may be several types of dark magic, and it is true that there are four dark ley lines in Chicago. But outside of Demonreach, one we know for certain is the intersection beneath the field museum, which is a very potent source of necromancy. The magic for raising or bringing back the dead.
    
   It is my belief that while Mab may have rid Harry like a pony for personal reasons, she broadcast it to every place and water in faerie to let her enemies know she was preparing for war. She has enemies, but is still uncertain who they all are; they are hidden from her sight. Therefore she has to lure them into the open; and then smite them.
   
   In the end of Changes, and Aftermath, and in Ghost Story I believe that this exactly what is happening. Her enemies, believing she has lost her knight ( and hence her ability to wage war on the mortal plane) ( They killed him) and that the other powers that might stop them ( The White Council, The White Court, The Red Court) have all been placed out of play have stepped out into the open and are openly perusing their own real objectives, at last.

   They don’t know that Mab has made her knight a ‘get out of death free’ card.

And there shall be smiting

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Predictions

•   Harry was killed by the Black Court, or their agents. They had their people standing by to take advantage within hours of his death.(uncertain as of GS, are the fallen agents/allies/ ?)
•   The Black Court, or their agents, are the enemies of Ghost Story(ditto)(Jim said after Cold Days)
•   Demonreach will be involved in Harry’s return. (Correct as of GS!)
•   Mab planned this in advance. (Correct as of GS!)

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Notes on Cold Days

-   We now know Mab can simply walk right in to Dresden’s Lab at any time; the threshold only limits her if she means to do harm. Apparently Harry always knew this but ‘forgot’ for the last six years.. Probably because Mab wanted him too.
-   Molly of course, did not become Mab in this book. She became the winter lady, Mab’s heir. But, the series is not over yet.
-   It is confirmed that Mab has been preparing Molly for this, likely since Proven Guilty. Her answer, that she did so because of Harry’s faith in Molly, only makes sense if you assume some level of foreknowledge.
-   We now know that Demon reach is very important to Mab, and in a purely personal sense.
-   Mab does indeed have a plan about luring her enemies in
-   Mab was mortal once
-   The headaches may have been caused by Lash; this is implied by demon reach. But the timing is off for her to be the cause of all of them; we know for a fact Mab caused one in Small favor and the timing of the rest is still very coincidental.
-   We also know Mab, Demon Reach, and lash have some sort of arrangement
-   Mab at the end of Ghost Story swore not to mess with Harry’s head anymore.  This is likely why Harry remembers about the Sidhe and thresholds. I predict Mab made a deal with Lash, to mess with Harry’s head for her from now on.
-   It’s likely that the missing Black Court elders are in demon reach prison, explaining their interest in the place
-   The existence of the mantle, and its ability to move information thru time, may be a much better explanation for the Mab/Molly relationship then time travel. It still solves the essential questions and does so more neatly; my only excuse is Jim never mentioned such a thing prior to Cold Days
-   Imagine a line. Point A is Mab in the past, point B is Molly/Mab in the future. Now from each point, draw radials; this is the light cone of potential pasts and futures. At a distance, the two points can perceive each other clearly, but as they approach a unified present more and more possible lines intersect, leading to more random events and a harder time making predictions. It’s a feedback system; each foreknowledge defines and curtails future information; as its gets closer and closer to a present now, Mab’s precognition gets less and less accurate.
-   Or in plane language, it will fail her when she needs it most.
-   And it will be Harry’s fault

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Ms Duck on June 10, 2012, 08:41:49 PM

Mab, Little Chicago, and Demon Reach, Aka the get out of dead free plan
by Ms DucK

Ok, let’s go back a bit:

Grave Peril:

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   Here is where we first meet the winter Sidhe. And here is where it is established that Harry traded Lea his ‘life, fortune, and future’ in exchange for the power to beat Justin. (power he already had, and only needed to believe in himself, but hey.) It is also established that by breaking his word three times, his own power turns against him, his very magic now trying to force him to keep his vow. Harry later bluffs Lea (or so he believes) into an extension, but the debt- life, fortune, and future- remains in force. And then, of course, Mab buys that debt from Lea, in order to balance the scales between them. (This btw means that Harry is worth as much to Mab as the original Morgan lefay’s dagger, or fricking Excalibur)   Also in this book we see Harry exit the NN near his apartment, and describe the area of his apt as a shadow version of itself. This is important later, as neither Bob or Harry remember these events in Changes.   At some point soon after this book Lea builds her secret entrance into Harry’s lab; she can now enter or leave his place at will (as well as protect the NN side) since Harry’s magic and thresholds are no longer an impediment to her- since she owns them.

 Summer Knight:

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          Enter Mab. Cue rock and roll music, with extra rocks in.   Mab demonstrates that the clause is still in full effect, by making Harry stab himself. They renegotiate; Mab allows Harry a chance to buy himself free, in return for three tasks. The limits are Harry can say No, with no reprisals; the deal remains solely between them; she cannot send lackey’s to chastise or force him by proxy.    When Mab leaves, she hurts him, both out of spite and to let the reader know the original clause is still in effect- she still owns his life, future, and fortune; he only has a chance to earn his freedom.   At the end she offers him the knighthood, and agrees that all debts between them will be canceled if he accepts.

  Proven Guilty:

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Now here is our famous mystery. Who entered Harry’s lab, without his or Bob’s knowledge, and fixed Little Chicago? And why? Who would know about it at all? 
   Back In 2006 JenniH posted that she didn’t think Mab was responsible for PG, as she would not sacrifice a main servitor. Jim replied (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,330.msg152191.html#msg152191):   

Quote from: jimbutcher on January 13, 2008, 12:11:45 PM

Quote from: JenniH on June 19, 2006, 09:09:18 PM

Mab as orchestrator of all is just a little much for me to swallow.  Seems like she loses a lot more than she gains, and I don't think Mab is big on coming out behind in her negotiations. 

Yeah.  It sure looks that way from here, don't it. :)

But to correct some minor stuff:  the fetches aren't even /close/ to her strongest servitors.  They're her couriers, harassers, spies and occasional assassins.  Captain Kudzu was a being that was deemed more-or-less sufficient on the badassometer, but nothing to write home about.  The fetches main use, to Mab, isn't as battlefield thugs.  She's got /plenty/ of other things for that.  Another mild correction:  who says Mab /lost/ the battle at Arctis Tor, before Harry and Company arrived?  At the end of the day, the Winter Queen was still in her fortress--but you didn't see anyone standing around assaulting the place, did ya. :)  Also, it has probably occurred to more than one of you that if Mab was /really/ in trouble, she could have had the entire military might of Faerie back at the fortress in moments--exactly the way they *did* come back when Harry smacked the Winter Well with the fires of Summer.

(Which goes to show that while Mab may be canny to an inhuman degree, she isn't infallible.  Just way closer to infallible than us.)

See above regarding "the question is *why*?" 

Ask yourself why Mab had Molly brought in.  What chain of events did that set in motion?  What secondary effects came about because of it?  Ultimately, Mab can always go to the Wyld and draw in more muscle to replace fallen thugs.  If worst comes to worst, with just a few "seed" fae, she could rear up enough Changelings to repopulate her cadre within a human generation or two--nothing, to a being thousands of years old. 

As far as she's concerned, everyone and everything is expendable, including herself, when it comes to adhering to her (seemingly irrational and inexplicable) priorities. 

(And by the way--don't think Titania is much better.  When push came to shove, she let her own daughter be murdered rather than upset the balance of the Faerie Courts.  At least Mab is up front about it.  Usually.)

Sacrifice her best troops?  Mab would sacrifice every creature *in* Winter, every one she could bring from Summer, and every single mortal on planet Earth if that's what she thought was appropriate.  And she wouldn't even need to add extra sugar to her cup of tea afterwards, much less lose sleep over it.

But no one does cold-blooded like the Queen of Winter.  Mab's been in the business a long time, she's got a balance sheet, and she is *not* going to come out in the red--

--unless, of course, she really *has* stripped a gear, as Lily and Maeve believe.  In which case there's a stark raving bonkers demigoddess whose powers are no longer being held in check by the Escher-esque code of Sidhe behavior.  And that's all kinds of bad.

But hey.  It's probably not that.  I mean, not *everything* that happens can be the absolute worst possible possibility, right?

Jim

   
  The part about Mab being mad (with evil smiley face) was later contradicted by Jim when someone else guessed that Mab was not insane, but wounded.Note that this post confirms two things, long suspected: That Mab had Molly brought in, and that Mab and Titania worked together to kill Aurora. And he specifically addressed the chain of events that this caused. Said chain could not have occurred unless Harry and co could reach actris tor, thus for the Plan to work Mab is required to fix it; which she could easily do; just walk thru the bottom door, fix things, and tell Bob to forget it happened.

White Night

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  Only a small maybe cameo here: The base was built by the Sidhe (think Mab left a hidey hole?)( confirmed in TC, how Did Titania get Morgan out?) and Anastasia complains of headaches, sex drives, and a strange female voice whispering to her in her dreams.

Small Favor

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 Now this is where life gets interesting. Mab outright (she admits it) takes Harry’s blasting rod and then makes him forget she took it. What she leaves behind is the image of a tarp, and a splitting headache. SF 212:

Quote

  “pain stabbed into my head, ice picks plunging into both temples. I flinched and doubled over. Blasting rod. Familiar words.  I fought to summon an image of what went with the words, but I could not find anything. I knew the memory associated with those words, but try as I might, I couldn’t drag it out. It was like a shape covered by some heavy tarp…”

   The second thing that happens in this book is Harry meets the isle for the first time.   There is also a small in-joke here; when researching gruff, harry find a Calvin and Hobbes book. For the non fans, the last strip of the comic had Calvin ( the too bright smart alleck) and Hobbes ( his wiser but snarky and horny friend only he can talk too) head off into a eternal winter wonderland of snow, magic, and snow goons. (yes, Mab left him a book)(that has a beware of Hobbes in joke)
 
Turn Coat and the two clue bats:

The first clue is on page 211   
After Thomas is taken, Harry searched for him magically, but never uses or mentions Little Chicago. (although damaged in WN, it is fixed by this time, note SJ).. all he describes is:

Quote

“a long table in the center of the room is covered by a canvas tarp.

.   
  Now it is important that not only does he not mention it ( he does in every other book, whether he uses it or not, he is very proud of it.) but Bob does not mention it either.    And almost the very first thing he mentions in the books is his splitting blinding headache.

The second clue is on page 215   
  Mouse come over to talk to him, gets Harrys attention, and then when Harry bends down, harry gets a second blinding headache, and loses his train of thought. This is important because it is shown later that Mouse could have found Thomas, and he certainly believed he was a match for shaggy, or at least that harry and he together were.So someone covered the table, removed the memory from Harry and Bob, and gave Harry a headache just in time to prevent him from rescuing Thomas.   

 Why would Mab do this?
  Two possible reasons: First, she believes Harry and Mouse were not a match for shaggy, or she needed Harry to bond with Demonreach for another later purpose, and Thomas being in trouble was the goad she used to get harry to do something this drastic.      Now another side note- Back to Anastasia. Harry and Rashid discuss why The black council had Anna fall for Harry, and are unable to come up with why; largely because putting Anna and Harry together is what caused the fall of their plan. The reason is because the BC was not responsible. Mab was. The BC used her as an assassin, but by sending her to harry, Mab was able to screw up all their plans.

Now to Changes, GS, and beyond: 

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  Mab has a problem. She has immense power, but is limited by the rules; she can only channel as much power into mortal realms as a single mortal vessel (her knight) can hold. So she needs a new knight with the capacity for some serious fire power. Her second problem is her enemies are acting in the shadows, keeping their true natures hidden. So how to lure them out?

• Get a major knight
• get the knight a way out of death free card (Demonreach, with help from lash)
• make it so the knight appears to have been killed
• bad guys come out of their roach holes, as planned
• bring back 6 billion dollar knight, with extra crispy Demonreach power
• make popcorn, enjoy

Other possible suspects for fixing LC:

• Eb- if he had known what was going on, he would have shown up to help.
• Rashid- even if he somehow knew, he had no way into the apartment
• Future Harry- wont ever happen. Harry, if he could change time, would have saved all the kids in PG, not just fixed LC. And to heck with the consequences.
• Uriel- only intervenes to balance the dark side’s efforts.
• Lea- was an icicle.
• Lash- if she could take over Harry’s body, she would do more than fix LC.

(with thanks to Elegast for the editing.)

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Ms Duck on June 10, 2012, 09:10:07 PM

Historical references to The Dresden Files and the Black Court
By Ms. Duck

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Theory:

   Jim likes tying his fantastic elements into real world history; for example, Tunguska explosion, or more recently, blaming the fall of the Mayan civilization on the red court. So, what can we possibly speculate on the Black Court? They are, after all, called ‘The Scourge’ of humanity. What historical events occurred during their known history, that killed large numbers of people but have mysterious origins? I did some checking, and came up with one plausible biggie: The Black Death

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(http://louisianacajunslang.com/death6.gif)

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738    Alhazred, author of the Necronomicon, slain by the Gatekeeper

1340?   Nicodemus, Tessa and Thorned Namshiel hit Europe, by church records

1348   Black death strikes the world. Over 75 million die worldwide, with plague starting in Eastern Europe or possibly Asia;  as many as 60% of Eastern Europe killed. Black Death is believed caused by most ( uneducated) people at the time by vampires and evil spirits. Historical art and documentation of the period is full of descriptions and images of the walking, rotting, dead.


1466    Black death of Paris.  Continues to kill tens of thousands in France until 1670

1476   Vlad the Impaler joins the Black Court.

1563   first black death of London. 30% of populace killed. Continues until 1665.

1656   death hits Italy. Almost 2 million casualties first year alone. Spreads to Spain and other Mediterranean countries.

1700   Death strikes Russian and Sweden. Over 400,000 killed first year.

1720   Last major outbreak in Western Europe, in Sweden. Still very active in the Islamic world and Eastern Europe.
1754-1763 Eb Fights the future merlin in the French and Indian war. Eb meets his wife around this period. Maggie Sr. Likely born sometime in the next 20 years.
176x   Kemmler begins to plot what would become world wars one.
1812   Ebenezer McCoy destroys New Madrid. (Why?)
184x   most recent Sidhe accords signed?
1850-80?   Meeting between White King, Red Duchess and representatives of the White Council.  I suggest one item on the menu is’ what the freak do we do about these maniacs before they kill the whole world?”
1880 ish- Demon reach island is abandoned. Gatekeeper may be involved.
1883   Krakatoa destroyed by Ebenezer McCoy (Opening Salvo of the Black Court War?)
   (May be Kemmler related, or both. Note the timing of the island.)
1895    last major occurrence of the Black Death, in Asia. Kills ten million in India alone
1897   Dracula Published. Operation strokergeddon, with likely military assistance from Red Court and White Council, begins. The Elders of the Black Court assinated (?), survivors unknown.

We have WOJ on what this involved:

Quote

    if the elders of the black court could have taken mab, then HOW ON EARTH did any mere force of humans manage to go up and stake them? i mean, they should've wiped out anything that was coming after them if they can take on MAB herself...just a thought
   Power in the spirit world isn't the same thing as power in the material world.  And a one-on-thirtyish fight (Mab vs the elders of the BC) is WAY different than a one-on-20,000 fight (a BC vampire against a modest mortal city).  Especially when the 20,000 know what your weaknesses are, and how to kill you with them. Smiley  And that's assuming that you don't have a saint, or an independent wizard, or a shaman, a Knight of the Cross or some other champion, or other spiritual allies on your side which was not uncommon.  Hell, for that matter, you might well be aided by vampires from the other Courts.  *Everyone* resented how powerful the Blacks had become.

1908   Ebenezer fights unknown persons at Tunguska. ( I suspect this was a salvo in the Black Court War)(or simply drop a rock on a BC base..nule them from orbit, must be sure)
1914   Kemmler starts ww1. White Council responds with joy and abandon.
1921   Lovecraft publishes ‘the other gods’ first historical reference to the Oblivion War.
1931   Lovecraft publishes ‘Shadow over Insmouth’ ; story references a battle between the US Navy and Deep Ones, aka the Formoirans.
1933   Lovecraft publishes ‘the thing on the doorstep’ Story clearly is about a Black Court master vampire.
1943   Kemmler active in Easter Europe. This time he gets dead..
1961   Kemmler finally killed for good, Tsar Bomba explosion?

---

Modern times.
      A Lovecraft Alliance forms, to take the world for themselves. Members are the surviving Black Court, Ghouls, Deep Ones, and Necromancers. The Outsiders may or may not be involved, as well as the Other Gods. They employ stealth, necromancy, and mind magic to devastating effect.

GP:   Mavra teaches dark magic to Bianca, and also weakens the film between the real world and the dead world. Lea is given the dagger, which drives her mad. Mavra uses necromancy to torture the ghost of Chicago, and bring back Kavros. I believe she also uses it to summon Rachel from the dead, and drive Bianca Mad. Red Court war begins.
SK:   Aurura, the summer lady, goes mad.
BR:   Mavra engages Harry in Chicago. It is all a giant trap, to force him to be her pawn in DB. Mavra reveals advanced powers of illusion and mind transference. Lord Raith Killed.
DB:   Cowl attempts godhood. At the same time, Mavra forces Harry to find her the book of Kemmler. There is evidence of cross purposes here. Harry says the book contains spells of necromancy that can be used against the Black Court. In background, the Red Court and the White Council maul each other.
WN:   Cowl openly commands ghouls. Vitto gets his power form an Outsider. Harry asks Lash about ‘ His Mother, The Black Court, and the Outsiders.’ Cowl does considerable damage to the White Court.
TC:   Peabody is revealed. First real setback for the alliance? There is confusion in their ranks.
C:   Harry destroys Red Court; Duchess Arianna does considerable damage to the White Council; Somewhere, the alliance throws a party. Mab make Harry her agent on earth, very publically announces it, and he is promptly killed.
Aft:   Alliance agents move too quickly after this point to take advantage of the chaos for them not to have known it was coming.
GS:  Corpsetaker is seen to be working with the Formor. Evil Bob is shown to have ties with  the Nazis.

Here is my summary and prediction:

•   At least one Black Court master survived
•   They want revenge and to eat the world
•   They were beaten last time by a large scale alliance
•   They must prevent such an alliance from forming again
•   While recruiting their own allies- The Deep Ones, Ghouls, Other Gods, Outsiders
•   Who in charge over there is debated. Often.
•   The plan is to cause as much chaos as possible to their old enemies
•   If they can wound or destroy some, or cause them to fight each other, so much the better.
•   This ‘Lovecraft alliance’ is not solid. They do not trust one another.
•   The whole point of DB from Mavra’s POV was to set up affairs to bring an elder or elders back.
•   This requires much magical blood, hence aftermath.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Ms Duck on June 10, 2012, 09:32:38 PM

King Arthur and the Dresden Files

   It seems clear there is an Arthurian reference in the Dresden Files, but the problem with basing any insights on this is which Arthurian myth are we looking at? Originally based on the stories of a fifth century welsh cavalry captain, the tales have grown and been adapted by hundreds of authors over the centuries. My favorite description of them is ‘A millennia of fanfic by a highly disturbed Fandom with no word of god to keep it straight, on crack.’
   For example Arthur was not originally a king.  Merlin was not added to the stories until five hundred years later; and Lancelot was not until the French versions in the 12th century.  Like Excalibur? It’s from a different legend that got mixed in. But we do have some elements that appear in the more common versions, and in the Dresden Files:

---

Quote

Her strong enchantments failing,
  Her towers of fear in wreck,
Her limbecks dried of poisons
  And the knife at her neck,

The Queen of air and darkness
  Begins to shrill and cry,
`O young man, O my slayer
  To-morrow you shall die.'

O Queen of air and darkness
  I think 'tis truth you say,
And I shall die to-morrow;
  But you shall die to-day.

-A.E. Housman

   

The Faerie Queens.

 
While the DF makes reference to Spencer and Shakespeare, the three queens of the fair isles are also in many Arthurian stories:
   Morgan Le Fey:
    Originally a powerful Fairy sorceress, she was re written as Arthur’s evil half-sister in the French versions, and it kind of stuck. In some of the older versions, she is the mother of Oberon, the Sidhe wizard King.  For the purposes of this idea, I am calling her Maggie Le Fey in the DF.
   Morgawse:   
       Queen of Air and Darkness, most powerful and wicked of the three sisters. In some versions, the mother of the brothers of Orkney ( Gawain, Gareth, Geofrey, Agravain, and Mordred.) Obviously, she is Mab. For those folks who read my lunacies, this theory disagrees with my classic Molly time traveling one.
   Elaine.
    The least powerful and least mentioned of the three. I am thinking this is Elaine Mallory, based on the name, but I have no real fondness for the idea. Mallory had four Elaine in his version.

---

Other Persons

   The Lady of the Lake.
    This one is solid, as one of her titles in Celtic myth is Leandasidhe. So Lea then. The Sidhe Lady who gave the sword Excalibur to Arthur, or the sword Caledwich to Gawain; Lover , Patron, and Muse to artists and heroes.
   Uther:
     Father of Arthur in the more modern stories, wielder of the sword in the stone prior to Arthur; He who once slew a dragon and commanded Merlin;  His heir was either raised by loyal vassal as his own son or apprenticed to Merlin. I am thinking Michael Carpenter.
   Merlin:
   The wizard. Doomed to travel backwards in time; teacher of future kings and heroes, who was betrayed by his assistant/ lover Nimune or his apprentice Morgan depending on the version. Ahem..Harry.
   Arthur:
   I am leaning towards the TH White version here, as it is actually nodded too in WN.  This would make Arthur at his point the child of Uther and Apprentice of Merlin . Molly :D
   Lancelot:
   The most dangerous of knights, the best in battle, but also in many ways the most fallible. He is the original Min / Max  character, having incredible combat skills and zero in anything else. About the only redeeming feature he has a person is his inability to decide if he is in love with Arthur, Guinevere, or his own arch enemy the black knight.  One could draw some comparisons to Murphy if one considers the Black Knight as Kinkaid, but I like the next idea better.
   (Could Kinkaid be Lancelot himself?)
   Gawain:
   The original hero of the tales, not the best of the knights, but the most honest, courageous, and noble. Generous to the poor, caring for the sick, forgiving to his enemies but always the defender of law and justice; despite often outmatched, never defeated. This is our Karen Murphy. And hey, she even has brothers. Gawain was the original finder of the Holy Grail until the French authors attributed it to Galahad. Solely because Galahad was a virgin, and therefore more pure. For a good version of Gawain, I highly recommend Hawk of May by Gillian Bradshaw.
   (This would make Rick the FBI guy either Agravain, the annoying brother, or Mordred, the traitorous one. And it might imply that Murphy is a descendant of Mab, somehow. Think about that one for a second. Mama Murphy might be Mab in disguise.)
   (And Gawain had his own magic sword that shed light when drawn like the sun.)
   Nimune:
   The assistant/ apprentice/ lover of Merlin, a demoness or sidhe  who betrayed him and sealed him in a Chrystal cave ; in many stories it is because she loves him and has foreseen his doom should he partake of the final battle. She sealed him in time. Inside of a cave. In order to protect him. I think this is Lash.

---

   So if Jim is using Arthur as a ‘primary source’ along with Lovecraft, Stoker, Cook, Donaldson, Spencer, etc… what Conjectures can we make? Well first, that Molly will get her sword and probably not till closer to the end. Second, that Murphy will get hers. Third, at some point Harry will go back in time. Fourth, one of the generals of the evil army in the BAT will be one of Murphy’s siblings or possibly step siblings.  Fifth, Mab has some interest in Murphy’s family.  Sixth, that there is some biological connection between Mab, Maggie Sr, and Elaine.
   So would this make the events of the Arthur stories historical in the DF, and current events a case of history repeating itself? Or is more in line with Dracula and Lovecraft, mortal authors given part of the truth and then publishing it? If it is the latter, I suspect that the real author would be Mab; at some point she has foreseen the coming BAT and the classic Arthur stories are a prophecy of some sort.

---

Excalibur itself:

     
   The name comes from name of the hero’s sword in the 12th century work “Percival” by Chrétien de Troyes. “"Qu'il avoit cainte Escalibor, la meillor espee qui fust, qu'ele trenche fer come fust." This sword was later misunderstood to refer to Arthur’s sword.
   The sword had quite a few names and mentions prior to this:

 Historian Geoffrey on Monmouth named it Caliburnus (hard steel?), shortened to Caliburn

   The earlier name, as I mentioned, is  Caledfwlch( Battle notch or hard edge?), first mentioned in the poem Culhwch. The oldest copy we have is from the 11th century, however, based on the language, historians agree that it is much older, but don’t agree on how much.

   An older name still is likely Caladbolg (hard cleft), from the tales of Cu Chulainn and the Ulster saga. Again, the oldest copies of these we have are from the 12th century, but we have archaeological proof that they predate the 7th century.

   Many of the King Arthur themes- the duel over an unfaithful wife, Sir Gawain and the green knight, the search for a holy chalice, the wise wizard councilor- all occur in the Cú Chulainn stories long before they were used in the King Arthur ones.
 
   Now while the copies of the stories we have are certainly post AD, and may(?) have been written post AD, they are certainly not set post AD. The Ulster cycle mentions includes several historical figures, which date it somewhere around 100 CE-300 BCE( as with many other oral histories written down centuries after the fact, they tend to jump a bit. One version dates them to the reign of the Roman Emperor Augustus 27 BCE- 14 AD, while another puts them at about the time of Ptolomey of Alexander 110 BCE, or Lugaid Luaigne at 194 BCE or even older.)

   The sword may even be older than that, according to the 10th century Togail Troi, the sword was wielded at the Battle of Troy in the 12th-11th centuries BCE.
Sword of the White God?
   Last time this topic came up, one objection was that the sword is originally named in a language that was invented well after 400 ad;  However, this is merely the first written records of it. The Red Branch saga is clearly set in  the first century AD and earlier, parts of it were likely oral legends long before the birth of Christ.
   Furthermore, Even if we don’t go back to Caladbolg, the Caledfwlch version was written prior to the Christian conversion of Ireland- there is mention in the stories of St Patrick of him converting unbelievers by summoning the ghost of Cu Chulainn from Hell, to tell pagans of the horrors there; furthermore, King Arthur’s enemies in the 9th century versions were the soldiers of Arawn of Annwn, a Welsh pagan god.  As a historical figure, whether Arthur was Christian or not seems debatable. The first mention of Dux (not king) Arthur is from the 9th century Historia Brittonum, and the later Annales Cambriae, which puts the Battle of  Badon (where he defeated the Saxons) at 516 AD. The Christianization of England did not begin until 597 AD, and was not complete until much later.
   The whole ‘King Arthur myth’ didn’t get started until much later, with Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia Regum Britanniae, written in the 12th century. He is the first person to combine the King Arthur myth, the Merlin myth, and the Ulster Myths.
   Now as to the Dresden Files, we don’t have enough info yet to know what version of these stories Jim is drawing from. But knowing Jim, it’s likely all of them. He has certainly made plenty of references to Morgawse, Morgan Le Fey, Maeve; as well as later sources such as TH White. If he is using the pre Christian version of the sword, it would go a long way to explaining why Lea is so interested in it, as the Sidhe, in most versions of the myth, forged it

---

One side note: In several legends, Morgan Le Fey has a half mortal son, the wizard Oberon, who goes on to marry the queen of the Sidhe…




   

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Ms Duck on June 10, 2012, 11:11:09 PM

On Marcone and the Erlking

---

Introduction:
   It’s a theory tend to accept that the Erlking is the one who gave the wolf belts to the FBI agents in FM. The FBI base connects to his place in the NN, they are hunters, the belt is a tool of hunters, its origins are in Germanic myth, and there is not direct reason why not. But there is no direct reason, why, or is there? In Changes, he gives us one big clue:

Quote

“I desire naught of any other being, save to pursue my hunts in accordance with the ancient traditions without interference…”

   

Now we do know a few things about the wild hunt and the Erlking thanks to Jim:

Others can lead the Wild Hunt, and thus interfere:

Quote

Actually, in the Dresden universe, the Wild Hunt can be led by a number of beings--INCLUDING Cern, but not exclusive to him.    The Erlking (who isn't Cern) is a being of Faerie who is in Mab's weight division, if not her equal.  I believe he is identified as the ruler of the goblins--which should not necessarily be equated with Tolkeinesque/Gygaxesque goblins.

Sidhe compete with each other indirectly

Quote

I mean, sure, the Erlking is a peer of Mab's--but there's kind of a reason that it's /Mab/ who rules the Worst of the Worst in Faerie, and not the Erlking.
      All of which doesn't even TOUCH on the way power is actually balanced in Faerie, because neither Mab nor the Erlking would attempt such a thing, or /consider/ attempting such a thing.  It would upset the natural order.  Conflicts between most of the Fae powers are very subtle, and generally involve proxies, pride, sex or all of the above.

---

So who else can summon the Wild Hunt, thus interfering with the Erlking, that he would want to mess with in return?

   The wild Hunt is a force, composed of either the spirits of the dead, the Sidhe, the fae, or all of the above, led by a single hunter. There are quite a few listed in mythology and history as leaders of the pack, so to speak, starting with the Germanic horned god Woden, and heading on to:

Theodoric the Great
 Valdemar Atterdag
 Gwyn ap Nudd
Odin
Frey
Herne the Hunter
Cern
Gwydion
Arawn
King Arthur
Lucifer

So does Marcone have any connections with these?

   Well, actually yes- Odin. He has bought service from Odin’s corporation on several occasions. But all of these occurred after the incident with the belts. So, what other connections can we postulate? What do we know about Odin and mortal interactions?

Odin Liked to Boing Boing

   He’s not called the all-father for nothing. His known children include, but are not limited to:

Gods:

Thor- from the Jotun queen Jord, goddess of the earth
Baldur- from the Goddess Frigg, Queen of Asgard
Vali- From the Jotun Princess Rindir

Heroes

   Now Odin is also the father of many great heroes of Germanic/Scandinavian/Northern mythology and history. Whom the mother of many of these is unknown, possibly a mortal, but could also be a Jotun, Aesir, Vanir, or other mystical being. The big difference between these sons and the gods above is that these sons were not given access to the apples of immortality, and thus lived mortal lives.  Often referred to as the Geat, from the tribe in Northern Europe said to be descended from them, these children and great children of Odin often possessed hero like, but not divine, gifts of foresight, strength, speed, agility, or luck. Batman level abilities, to be precise.

Sigi- ancestor of Sigurd and Sigrun, aka Ms. Gard
Skjold- who later married the goddess Gefjon
Yngvi- founder of Norway
Saeming- son of Skadi, the winter goddess
Gauti- ancestor of Beowulf
Sigrlami- ancestor of the dark elves
And at least 20 more of lesser import

   So we have a badass mortal with heroic skills (Marcone, not his real name), who has a best friend who is a badass mortal with heroic skills(Hendricks), who hangs around with a Valkyrie who admits she is a Geat (Gard).. We can take a wild guess here:

Erlking is messing with Marcone because Marcone is one of Odin’s descendants

---

Gram?
   In even hand Hendricks has a sword that the Formor lord Mag seemed to recognize:

Quote

He looked at me, then at Gard. His eyes narrowed. They tracked back to Hendricks, his head hardly moving, and he seemed to freeze when he saw the sword in Hendricks hand.

   This may be nothing, but its worth noting that while even on the floor, with an enchanted axe above his head and a gun in his face, the Fomor was most afraid of the sword that Hendricks was just holding- a sword described as a simple, rather crude looking broadsword. Now there are many magical swords in northern myths, but one crucial sword is Gram, the dragon slayer, a sword Odin only allows his mortal descendants to wield. Now that sword would give even a Formor pause.
Mab?
   This may be a bit off, as there is no direct way as of yet to determine which woman might be the ancestor of which mortal lineage, or even what ancestor the three had. Odin gets around. But one thing we do know for sure is that Mab has other names in myth:

Quote

the white council - isn't mab her true name?
It's /one/ of her Names.  But God help the simp (or Council of simps) who tries to control her with that and nothing else.  Ugh, that would get ugly.

   Now there is a very good chance she is Morgawse. Also quite likely she is The Winter Queen; among other possibilities are Lovitar, Skadi, Gerda, Holda (who also leads the Wild Hunt in her own right), Huldra and Perchta. Why is this important? Because in one myth or another, Odin did most of them. And several myths list them as possible mothers for many of the various heroes..  Putting a final conflict between the Odin/ Erlking/ Marcone triangle.

---

It’s a good thing Odin and Erlking don’t get jealous, right? I mean, Harry might end up in trouble..

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Ms Duck on June 11, 2012, 12:20:32 AM

Dracula, Kemmler and The Black Court

by Ms. Duck

---

Quote

Stoker was killed for being delicious.
Lara: Bram, Bram, Bram.  You've done so well.  Time for your reward.
Lara (later): ...
Lara (in her journal):  It's so easy to get carried away when one works with the creative talent.  So much enthusiasm

---

Introduction:
   We know from the books and WOJ that the novel Dracula, the Hammer Vampire films of the 1960s, and likely other related works were published by the white court in order to undermine the growing power of the Black Court. And yet, the vampire sin those works don’t really resemble the Black Court that well- even though Harry jokes about them as ‘Stoker’s guide to Vampire killing’ many of the elements he mentions, such as sunlight, were never part of the original stories. Furthermore, the vampires in the genre are dark, seductive beings, not shambling corpses. Serrack suggested that Stoker was killed by the white court because he had done his job too well, in combining the elements of the white court vampire in with the black court he was supposed to portray. Jim, however, noted that Stoker was killed simply for being delicious.

---

What do we know about the Black Court?

They were damn scary:

Quote

Hmmm.  In terms of pure, raw power, several who have appeared or been mentioned in the books could pull it off, though neither side would really "win" as much as "continue to exist."  Plus, the sudden absence of Mab would do freaking HIDEOUS things to the earth.  But here's who has the necessary horsepower do it:

o   Titania--though it would be a coin toss.  Almost literally.
o   The Mothers (who wouldn't)
o   The White Council.  As in, ALL the White Council.  Every wizard on the planet.  And they'd need her Name.
o   Drakul.
o   Ferrovax.
o   The Red Court--again, ALL the Red Court, though their odds wouldn't be good.
o   The entire White Court--very, very long odds on that, but if they actually pulled it off, whoever took Mab would effectively control her power.
o   Cowl (if the Darkhallow had succeeded).
o   A union of the old Elders of the Black Court.  They were freaking scary until the Whites arranged to have them hounded down by mortals.

Quote

Power in the spirit world isn't the same thing as power in the material world.  And a one-on-thirtyish fight (Mab vs the elders of the BC) is WAY different than a one-on-20,000 fight (a BC vampire against a modest mortal city).  Especially when the 20,000 know what your weaknesses are, and how to kill you with them. Smiley  And that's assuming that you don't have a saint, or an independent wizard, or a shaman, a Knight of the Cross or some other champion, or other spiritual allies on your side which was not uncommon.  Hell, for that matter, you might well be aided by vampires from the other Courts.  *Everyone* resented how powerful the Blacks had become.

The ones that survived are the smart ones:

Quote

Bear in mind that evolution made a pretty brutal selection among the Black Court.  The ones who survived and prospered were those who avoided notice, respected the potential danger mortals represented, and who were generally quick to leave town rather than charge into a confrontation.

Quote

The BC didn't /know/ about the WC's involvement until well after the fact, at which point it was entirely academic.  The BC who are left survive because they are extremely pragmatic.  They don't have enough trouble surviving /without/ picking a fight with the entire White Court, who will only send the peasants and pitchforks anyway?  If one needs to vent one's spleen, one does it on hapless mortals, preferably those no one will miss.

In the Dreden Files so far, what have we seen?

-super human strength, exceeding even that of a white court noble
-super human speed, likewise
-appear like rotting corpses
-resistant to normal damage
- masters can turn other humans
-it is possible to become a master very young
-In addition, Mavra can:
Possess her minions
Turn to mist
Senior Council level wizard, with skills in illusion, evocation, and necromancy

---

The Gothic Vampire

   First created in the short story The Vampyre by John William Pollidori in 1819, the gothic vampire is one of the staples of  Victorian literature. Suave, attractive, charismatic, the villain of the piece, Lord Ruthven, appears entirely human. He walks in the sunlight, appears to bleed when stabbed, and is not repulsed by holy symbols. He was in many ways the basis for Dracula; a nobleman from Eastern Europe who journeys to the western world and feast on our women. Unlike alter versions, in the original short story the hero does not win; we don’t know of any weaknesses from this story as Lord Ruthven feeds then leaves.( He is seen to die from a blow to the heart, but appears unhurt soon after.)
   The second great story of the genre is Carmilla by Le Fanu and published in 1872. It took the vampire begun by Pollidori- the Eastern noble with a taste for blood- and added in the elements we all recognize as vapiric today; The ability to shape shift (into a cat or shadow), the sexual ambiguity (she is a lesbian; from this point on, many vampires are either gay or bisexual, especially the females); the need to return to her coffin at dawn, and the weakness to holy items, prayer, and blessed blades. One very important element in the story, later used to great effect in Dracula, is that she can only be killed permanently  is during dawn while in her coffin.( Later books expanded this idea to be able to be killed during the day; however Carmilla herself is only vulnerable at dawn. Even when stabbed thru the heart by a holy weapon, she is reborn in her coffin the next night.)
   Dracula, by Stoker, published in 1897 is of course, the most famous version. Stoker took the elements of Carmilla, combined them with a villain like Ruthven, and added in generous portions of real history, current events, and Tom Clancy style techno writing to create the most famous vampire ever. In addition to Carmilla’s powers, he may also climb walls like a spider, control the weather, mesmerize the minds of mortals, summon animals, and communicate telepathically with his brides.
   It is also important to note, that like Carmilla, he was only truly vulnerable in his coffin. It is his great weakness; crosses may turn him, weapons may hurt him, but in his coffin at dawn he is vulnerable. Furthermore, it is important to note that he can walk abroad at day; he only must return to his coffin at dawn, but may rise up again afterwards.

---

   

So how do we reconcile this?

   I think the answer is in combing three elements:

The surviving Black Court are cunning
A master Black Court can communicate or control their minions
A master Black Court can pass for human, even by daylight

Thus, the conclusion is Harry has not met the real Mavra yet, only her pawns
   Or has he? It’s entirely possible that the real Mavra has been onscreen already, and Harry has not noticed. Sandra Merling, perhaps? Some other minor character?  Heck, for all we know is could be Mrs. Spunkerlief.
   A second point to mention is that several of the classic stories mention it is possible to bring even a dead Black Court back if you have the coffin and enough Blood. Gee, I wonder why the Formor are collecting all the magically rich blood?

---

Kemmler connection?

   One thing we know from WOJ was that when Harry threatens Mavra with the Word Of Kemmler, he was not bluffing. There is something in that book, ort in necromancy in general that the Black Court is afraid of. That, I speculate, is why Mavra went to such extremes to set up a trap for the necromancers in Dead Beat.
   One other clue is in T Rex Sue; she gained power as she killed things. Dead Beat mentions her directly becoming stronger; her steps crush concrete, her flesh which was once harm able by the other undead becomes resistant to even their strongest attacks; her skin begins to glow with a silver sheen of energy; and she gains a will and desire of her own, beyond Harry’s power to control.
   It’s important to note that the spell Harry used to create her came from The Word, a book written in a language that Harry did not know, that was translated by the shadow of Lasciel for him. I think the spell was the one for creating Black Court, and Harry made a major oopsie.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Shecky on June 11, 2012, 12:47:21 AM

Quackpot! :D

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Ms Duck on June 11, 2012, 01:20:59 AM

Oh Quack

by Ms. Duck

This is an add on to  Gothic Vampires (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32663.msg1452318.html#msg1452318)
    I had way too much coffee while working on this copy edit, and over dinner, began to wonder: Where is the Black Court Elder?
   Why, the place it would hurt Harry the most, of course.

Carmilla

The first true Gothic Vampire
Major source for all following, such as Dracula, Lestat, Jean-Claude..
In the public domain, so can be used
Using her would be very geeky
Jim is a geek god royale with cheese
Shape shifter
Master of illusions
Can walk in day
Only revealed at dawn
Can fully pass for human otherwise
Small frame, dark hair, slight figure
May be hurt by normal weapons, but heals, with the scars fading
Very poetic, well educated, and intelligent
Lesbian
Often becomes romantically obsessed with her food
Has one strange weakness- whatever name she uses must be based on her true name    (Carmilla Karnstein)
Her last pseudo name was Marcilla

The Shaggy was used by a being that considered him merely cheap labor
While he attacked several people, he made sure to kill Kirby, the man who took Andi away..
Oh Quack !

(click to show/hide)

it’s Marci

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: MartyTaylor on June 11, 2012, 01:21:50 AM

Lots of good stuff here. Of course its not all right (how could it be when you admitedly contridict yourself at least once), but I'm sure much of it is right on.

I like reading your well researched theories!

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: xebo on June 11, 2012, 01:23:47 AM

Duck, you can't just throw around these conspiracy theories and expect to not get hurt. There are people in the highest eschelons of society that have secrets - secrets they have no intention of making public. Secrets they will go to great lengths to keep hidden.

Tread cautiously.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Ms Duck on June 11, 2012, 01:26:24 AM

Quote from: Shecky on June 11, 2012, 12:47:21 AM

Quackpot! :D

any chance of this getting stickied when it's done? I had made one like this a few years back, but its toast and so is msot of the stuff on it. Must do more re writing..lol

Quote from: MartyTaylor on June 11, 2012, 01:21:50 AM

Lots of good stuff here. Of course its not all right (how could it be when you admitedly contridict yourself at least once), but I'm sure much of it is right on.

I like reading your well researched theories!

Thank You !

Quote from: xebo on June 11, 2012, 01:23:47 AM

Duck, you can't just throw around these conspiracy theories and expect to not get hurt. There are people in the highest eschelons of society that have secrets - secrets they have no intention of making public. Secrets they will go to great lengths to keep hidden.

Tread cautiously.

I 'know' Mab  ;D

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Spaced Cowboy on June 11, 2012, 01:27:43 AM

I guess Mabs precognition wouldn't have to really be precog if Mab = Molly. She's just remembering, right ? Which gives Jim the ability for a god-like entity to suddenly lose a crutch on which she's relied for so long...

Hmm

Simon

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Ms Duck on June 11, 2012, 01:30:00 AM

Quote from: Spaced Cowboy on June 11, 2012, 01:27:43 AM

I guess Mabs precognition wouldn't have to really be precog if Mab = Molly. She's just remembering, right ? Which gives Jim the ability for a god-like entity to suddenly lose a crutch on which she's relied for so long...

Hmm

Simon

Hello and welcome !

Yah, the Molly=Mab came first, then Mb/LC came later when too many people choked on the time travel. they are really the same theory: How does Mab know whats going to happen?

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: xebo on June 11, 2012, 01:53:40 AM

Duck, the "Mab" theories are all dependent on her being neigh omnipotent. It just seems like such a cop out. How could she know that steering Harry toward Demonreach wouldn't have gotten him killed? She manipulates things at the very beginning, but it seems as though nothing ever goes wrong for her (despite the summer fire thing). She's basically all knowing.

It's just...it's bad writing. And I hate to say that, because I love Jim's work. But an omnipotent being that guides the story is, well, bad writing.

Really, can anyone here confidentially say that mab isn't all knowing? She freaking knows what's going to happen. I swear, that's the biggest reason why I agree with your Time Travel theory, Duck. Because it's the only way Mab's actions are evenly remotely believable - She's seen it all before. Any other excuse requires Mab to be able to see events 20 steps ahead of everyone else, which basically makes her infallible.

So, assuming Jim is a fantastic writer, which is a safe assumption, then we can also assume that Mab has knowledge of the future. Which means Mab either owns a crystal ball, or she's traveled back in time after experiencing these events once, and is using her knowledge of the "future" to skilfully manipulate people/events.

Now, the Gate Keeper can see events in the future. Maybe Mab just has a more souped up version of his power. Maybe, because of her position, she can do whatever she wants with that knowledge. That would explain pretty much everything about her awesome ability to predict and manipulate.

However, assuming she doesn't have a crystal ball, the question becomes, "Who is mab?". Welp, she has power over illusion and fear, she's a woman, she has an interest in Harry (The stone table suggests a very intimate interest in harry), and she has a connection to Lea. Only one candidate comes to mind: Molly.

Edit: Duck, I absolutely love your King Arthur/Merlin theory. I only have one problem with it though: I don't remember the myths ever saying that Merlin banged Arthur. This could put a dent in my fan fiction.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Ms Duck on June 11, 2012, 02:04:12 AM

Quote from: xebo on June 11, 2012, 01:53:40 AM

Duck, the "Mab" theories are all dependent on her being neigh omnipotent. It just seems like such a cop out. How could she know that steering Harry toward Demonreach wouldn't have gotten him killed? She manipulates things at the very beginning, but it seems as though nothing ever goes wrong for her (despite the summer fire thing). She's basically all knowing.

It's just...it's bad writing. And I hate to say that, because I love Jim's work. But an omnipotent being that guides the story is, well, bad writing.

Really, can anyone here confidentially say that mab isn't all knowing? She freaking knows what's going to happen. I swear, that's the biggest reason why I agree with your Time Travel theory, Duck. Because it's the only way Mab's actions are evenly remotely believable - She's seen it all before. Any other excuse requires Mab to be able to see events 20 steps ahead of everyone else, which basically makes her infallible.

So, assuming Jim is a fantastic writer, which is a safe assumption, then we can also assume that Mab has knowledge of the future. Which means Mab can either use a crystal ball, or she's traveled back in time after experiencing these events once, and is using her knowledge of the "future" to skilfully manipulate people/events.

Assuming she doesn't have a crystal ball, the question becomes, "Who is mab?". Welp, she has power over illusion and fear, she's a woman, and she has an interest in Harry (The stone table suggests a very intimate interest in harry). Only one candidate comes to mind: Molly.

Thanks :)

but what if shes not omnipotent, but just really really sneaky?

Why did Kinkaid shoot Harry in the chest, not the head?( He allways aims for the head.)
Why did the shot take place on the lake, where Mab was waiting?
On the lake where Demon Reach can be found?
Mab can subtly change reality, within her domain
So can her opnenets, most likely
Precognition means making small changes, subtle things
Like nudging a bullet just a little bit..

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: mithrandirthewhite on June 11, 2012, 02:50:24 AM

Would the bullet been lead or jacketed for armor peircing to be able to go through the boat? im asking because I dont think fae can influence iron, so that wouldnt an iron covered bullet be unaffected? (Or are the jackets made of copper?)

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Ms Duck on June 11, 2012, 03:52:38 AM

Quote from: mithrandirthewhite on June 11, 2012, 02:50:24 AM

Would the bullet been lead or jacketed for armor peircing to be able to go through the boat? im asking because I dont think fae can influence iron, so that wouldnt an iron covered bullet be unaffected? (Or are the jackets made of copper?)

this was argued out in another thread last year, in which a lot of people who know a LOT more about guns than I do proceeded to get very testy back and forth. Ergo, my offical answer is 'enhhh maybe?'

 ;D

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: MartyTaylor on June 11, 2012, 02:07:45 PM

Along the last couple lines. Just like Harry didn't aim at the Scarecrow he couldn't hit but aimed at the ground beneath him (and Carlos did the same thing in the depths) Mab could manipulate the Air around the bullet's trajectory, so its composition becomes irrelevant.

As to Mab's precognitive ability; she's not the only player in the series that has it. Odin was well known for it, or at least obtained it through the crows depending on which version of the myth you have. Any number of the Mab's (and Harry's adversaries would have sufficient cognitive ability to have some measure of it to one degree or another. For that matter, we've been told and shown where it has been used by unnamed adversary in Changes. Shiro used it to save Harry.

Precognition is a power and tool used by mulitple players in the Dresden verse. The ones that determine how to use it to their greatest adavantage at the most strategically valuable times will be the ones to benefit the most from it. Mab's possession of the ability is not unique, so it doesn't unbalance the story. Even more, she doesn't use it in Harry's best interest, at least not completely.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: peregrine on June 11, 2012, 02:52:09 PM

Quote from: mithrandirthewhite on June 11, 2012, 02:50:24 AM

Would the bullet been lead or jacketed for armor peircing to be able to go through the boat? im asking because I dont think fae can influence iron, so that wouldnt an iron covered bullet be unaffected? (Or are the jackets made of copper?)

You can get bullets jacketed with steel, but usually they're covered with some copper alloy.  But then again, if you know you're going to be shooting someone who is fae empowered, you might pick steel.  Odds are a bullet fired by Kinkaid from a long distance would probably be jacketed, but it can go either way.

And, if Mab wanted to do some shenanigans with the bullet, she needs not to have affected it, she could put an illusion on Kinkaid to change his aim, or create a channel through the air to encourage the path of the bullet, and plan for the air to remain dense or not as needed for long enough even after the possible steel disrupts her magic...

It's basically impossible to tell one way or the other.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Zuriel on June 11, 2012, 05:58:16 PM

Just sticking my nose in to say thank you, Ms. Duck, for taking the time to compile a very interesting and thought-provoking list of possibilities and theories that I will mull over while I'm re-reading DF.  I'm lucky to have the time to read, let alone analyze every tidbit of information contained in these books.

Therefore, I bow to you, oh most wise and resourceful Ms. Duck, for providing me with enough food for thought to sustain me while I'm reading.

And I don't mean to dismiss others' POV, as you all are here just as well, contributing, for which I am also thankful.

Please continue...I'm reaping the benefit of your time and effort.   :)

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: derrick on June 11, 2012, 06:49:00 PM

Quote from: peregrine on June 11, 2012, 02:52:09 PM

You can get bullets jacketed with steel, but usually they're covered with some copper alloy.  But then again, if you know you're going to be shooting someone who is fae empowered, you might pick steel.  Odds are a bullet fired by Kinkaid from a long distance would probably be jacketed, but it can go either way.

And, if Mab wanted to do some shenanigans with the bullet, she needs not to have affected it, she could put an illusion on Kinkaid to change his aim, or create a channel through the air to encourage the path of the bullet, and plan for the air to remain dense or not as needed for long enough even after the possible steel disrupts her magic...

It's basically impossible to tell one way or the other.

I'm not getting into the bullet's composition...again.  But instead of affecting the bullet, Mab only needed to rock the boat just a little, or something else to make Harry stumble just a bit.  Much easier than manipulating an object moving 1000FPS+ or the air in the path of it's trajectory.

FWIW, I'm not totally sold on Mab being Harry's puppetmaster.  That's not to say she doesn't manipulate him every chance she gets or that she's rarely successful in doing so.  Even so, it's an interesting theory.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: SAZ on June 11, 2012, 07:01:50 PM

Of all of the Duck’s theories, I think the Black Court and the Lovecraft alliance ones are the mostly likely to have parts that are correct.

Ms Duck, you know if Molly = Mab, you are going to have a lot of folks who will want your autograph on the DF book that reveals it. You might want to invest in an auto signer or a rubber stamp to avoid a repetitive stress injury.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Ms Duck on June 11, 2012, 07:09:39 PM

Quote from: Zuriel on June 11, 2012, 05:58:16 PM

Just sticking my nose in to say thank you, Ms. Duck, for taking the time to compile a very interesting and thought-provoking list of possibilities and theories that I will mull over while I'm re-reading DF.  I'm lucky to have the time to read, let alone analyze every tidbit of information contained in these books.

Therefore, I bow to you, oh most wise and resourceful Ms. Duck, for providing me with enough food for thought to sustain me while I'm reading.

And I don't mean to dismiss others' POV, as you all are here just as well, contributing, for which I am also thankful.

Please continue...I'm reaping the benefit of your time and effort.   :)

Thank you ! (Hugs)  :D

Quote from: SAZ on June 11, 2012, 07:01:50 PM

Of all of the Duck’s theories, I think the Black Court and the Lovecraft alliance ones are the mostly likely to have parts that are correct.

Ms Duck, you know if Molly = Mab, you are going to have a lot of folks who will want your autograph on the DF book that reveals it. You might want to invest in an auto signer or a rubber stamp to avoid a repetitive stress injury.

actually, I agree about the lovecraft. Its a fave. As to Molly/Mab, it occured to me a while back I coudl have the cart before the horse there- combine mab/lc and molly/arthur and you ge6t the idea that Mab is rasiing Molly to be her succesor- or Maeve's. she has forseen that she will die soon (the BAT comment), and is planning for Molly to take either her place or Maeves... thus Molly becomes Mab, in another way of being.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Cozarkian on June 11, 2012, 08:36:57 PM

Quote from: Ms Duck on June 10, 2012, 08:41:49 PM

Turn Coat and the two clue bats:
The first clue is on page 211   
After Thomas is taken, Harry searched for him magically, but never uses or mentions Little Chicago. (although damaged in WN, it is fixed by this time, note SJ).. all he describes is: .   
  Now it is important that not only does he not mention it ( he does in every other book, whether he uses it or not, he is very proud of it.) but Bob does not mention it either.    And almost the very first thing he mentions in the books is his splitting blinding headache.The second clue is on page 215   
  Mouse come over to talk to him, gets Harrys attention, and then when Harry bends down, harry gets a second blinding headache, and loses his train of thought. This is important because it is shown later that Mouse could have found Thomas, and he certainly believed he was a match for shaggy, or at least that harry and he together were.So someone covered the table, removed the memory from Harry and Bob, and gave Harry a headache just in time to prevent him from rescuing Thomas. 

There is a flaw with this portion of the theory that I haven't seen raised in our other discussions.

Textual evidence makes it clear Harry wouldn't have needed LC to find Thomas. Re-read PG when he is trying to find Molly. He explains to Murphy that the reason he needs LC is because Molly is no longer in Chicago and he is trying to find where she was, not where she is. Harry's normal array of tracking spells should have been quite sufficient for finding Thomas. They also would have been more effective than LC, because they could search beyond the borders of LC.

Now, it is still extremely strange that Harry doesn't mention LC (even if Harry didn't think LC would ultimately help, he still would have tried), but the above could explain why Bob doesn't mention LC (he wouldn't suggest Harrry use LC if it wasn't going to help). Thus, this argument simply points to some other motivation for preventing Harry from using LC other than preventing him from finding Thomas.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Ms Duck on June 11, 2012, 08:45:34 PM

Quote from: Cozarkian on June 11, 2012, 08:36:57 PM

There is a flaw with this portion of the theory that I haven't seen raised in our other discussions.

Textual evidence makes it clear Harry wouldn't have needed LC to find Thomas. Re-read PG when he is trying to find Molly. He explains to Murphy that the reason he needs LC is because Molly is no longer in Chicago and he is trying to find where she was, not where she is. Harry's normal array of tracking spells should have been quite sufficient for finding Thomas. They also would have been more effective than LC, because they could search beyond the borders of LC.

Now, it is still extremely strange that Harry doesn't mention LC (even if Harry didn't think LC would ultimately help, he still would have tried), but the above could explain why Bob doesn't mention LC (he wouldn't suggest Harrry use LC if it wasn't going to help). Thus, this argument simply points to some other motivation for preventing Harry from using LC other than preventing him from finding Thomas.

Um, beg pardon, but Harry tried all those spells. they were being blocked by Shaggy. LC might have worked , as it was a demi artifact designed right for that purpose, that Shaggy did not know about.

Quote

Two hours and a half a dozen attempted tracking spells later, i snarled and slapped a stack of notepads off the corner of the table.. "the parent to child bond is much more sympathetic than that shared by siblings"..

etc, etc.. TC , starting pg 211

Shaggy was blocking all the stadard spells  ;)

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Cozarkian on June 11, 2012, 09:06:09 PM

Quote from: Ms Duck on June 11, 2012, 08:45:34 PM

Um, beg pardon, but Harry tried all those spells. they were being blocked by Shaggy. LC might have worked , as it was a demi artifact designed right for that purpose, that Shaggy did not know about.

etc, etc.. TC , starting pg 211

Shaggy was blocking all the stadard spells  ;)

I agree Harry would have at least tried LC, because he was desperate (it is very suspicious Harry doesn't at least mention LC). But, I think less-emotionally involved individuals, like Bob and Mab recognize that LC would not have helped find Thomas.

However, from the discussion in PG, I don't think LC was designed in a manner which, under the specific circumstances of TC, would help find Thomas. As evidenced by the text you quoted, Harry's problem was that the sibling link wasn't strong enough. Using LC would still have been dependent on a sibling link, so it too, would have been insufficient. Bob would recognize that and would therefore not recommend using LC, because Bob would understand that LC would not succeed where the normal tracking spells woufailed.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Cozarkian on June 11, 2012, 09:33:02 PM

Quote from: Ms Duck on June 11, 2012, 01:26:24 AM

any chance of this getting stickied when it's done? I had made one like this a few years back, but its toast and so is msot of the stuff on it. Must do more re writing..lol
Thank You !

I'd support you on that. Even when I disagree, your theories are always well-thought out and drive a lot of conversation.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Second Aristh on June 11, 2012, 09:53:55 PM

Quote from: Ms Duck on June 11, 2012, 01:26:24 AM

any chance of this getting stickied when it's done? I had made one like this a few years back, but its toast and so is msot of the stuff on it.

Yeah, I'm not sure what kinds of criteria are involved in determining if a thread is sticky quality, but it would be nice to have a place for the new kids to catch up with the rest of the class.  I think a lot of people would be a little lost around here without knowing at least the outlines of these theories.  Perhaps having a thread that lists all of the long, thoroughly researched, well-formatted theories as a reference.  I'm a fan of the curator plan that was proposed a few weeks ago.

Nice work Lady Duck!

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Ms Duck on June 11, 2012, 09:55:49 PM

Thank you both :D

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Fox on June 12, 2012, 01:17:55 AM

I mixed feelings about your theories.  I love them because they're awesome, or have awesome implications- and tend to make a scary amount of sense. 

But I if they're true there is a shit load of stuff going on in the Dresden Files that is flying way over my head, which is a little depressing.  But then again that's kind of exciting.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Ms Duck on June 12, 2012, 01:24:22 AM

Quote from: Fox on June 12, 2012, 01:17:55 AM

I mixed feelings about your theories.  I love them because they're awesome, or have awesome implications- and tend to make a scary amount of sense. 

But I if they're true there is a shit load of stuff going on in the Dresden Files that is flying way over my head, which is a little depressing.  But then again that's kind of exciting.

yah.. I get that feeling..because I'm sure Jim isnt done yet. There is probably quite a bit of stuff yet we don't have any clue at all on yet.. greek gods, asian religon, drakul..

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: MartyTaylor on June 12, 2012, 03:20:13 AM

Quote from: Fox on June 12, 2012, 01:17:55 AM

I mixed feelings about your theories.  I love them because they're awesome, or have awesome implications- and tend to make a scary amount of sense. 

But I if they're true there is a shit load of stuff going on in the Dresden Files that is flying way over my head, which is a little depressing.  But then again that's kind of exciting.

Well, I think that it will be like any good mystery. All of the clues are there, we just might not have noticed them, yet, or put them all together. But as the dominoes start falling Jim through Harry will be sure to point them out to us. So when we get to book three of the BAT and we all know exactly where its going we'll be saying my this going to be a beautiful and spectacular very Harry train wreck.

 ... and loathe as I am to compare Dresden to the other Harry, both authors share a lot workmanship traits. There were tons of underlying themes in that other series that not a lot of people spotted that added to the depth of it all, but you didn't need to catch to enjoy it. And if you'd been paying attention you had a pretty solid idea of how the whole bit was likely to end before it got there, too. In a very broad sense (very broad sense) I expect the DF to be like that; deep rich, and while not exactly predictable, but when you get to the end you'll be pretty sure where the story has to go to get to the finale.

edit: did that make any sense?

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Spot on June 14, 2012, 12:14:03 AM

Quote from: Ms Duck on June 10, 2012, 08:25:51 PM

Believe it or not, some people have asked me to put a master index together again. So here goes nothing ! (like my repuatation or your sanity)

---

Who are these people, and where can I find them? *runs away laughing*

Actually, I think I'll read these instead. :)

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Serack on June 15, 2012, 02:52:46 AM

Quote from: Ms Duck on June 10, 2012, 08:25:51 PM

Believe it or not, some people have asked me to put a master index together again. So here goes nothing ! (like my repuatation or your sanity)

---

Moly and Mab (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32663.msg1452169.html#msg1452169)
Mab and Little Chicago (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32663.msg1452190.html#msg1452190)
 Lovecraft Alliance (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32663.msg1452233.html#msg1452233)
 King Arthur and Harry (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32663.msg1452248.html#msg1452248)
Marcone and The Erling (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32663.msg1452282.html#msg1452282)
Gothic Vampires (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32663.msg1452318.html#msg1452318)

(feel free to comment if you like. When i finish copy editing stuff, ill just add it to the index)

Something I recently learned from your code post about a week ago, is that if you put an "i" in front of the "url" in your url code it will open those links in window, making those links behave more like wikipedia index links.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: asetti on June 15, 2012, 05:04:14 AM

Tag for the interesting reading!

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Sir Huron Stone on June 15, 2012, 05:12:46 AM

... oh duckie. How I've missed you.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Ms Duck on June 15, 2012, 01:46:55 PM

Hugs!

Thanks for the infor Serrack !

ive got more a coming, just need to rewrite from scratch since they got deleted durign the last server move.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Warden John Marcone on June 15, 2012, 06:21:42 PM

Quote from: Ms Duck on June 11, 2012, 01:20:59 AM

Oh Quack

by Ms. Duck

This is an add on to  Gothic Vampires (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32663.msg1452318.html#msg1452318)
    I had way too much coffee while working on this copy edit, and over dinner, began to wonder: Where is the Black Court Elder?
   Why, the place it would hurt Harry the most, of course.

Carmilla

The first true Gothic Vampire
Major source for all following, such as Dracula, Lestat, Jean-Claude..
In the public domain, so can be used
Using her would be very geeky
Jim is a geek god royale with cheese
Shape shifter
Master of illusions
Can walk in day
Only revealed at dawn
Can fully pass for human otherwise
Small frame, dark hair, slight figure
May be hurt by normal weapons, but heals, with the scars fading
Very poetic, well educated, and intelligent
Lesbian
Often becomes romantically obsessed with her food
Has one strange weakness- whatever name she uses must be based on her true name    (Carmilla Karnstein)
Her last pseudo name was Marcilla

The Shaggy was used by a being that considered him merely cheap labor
While he attacked several people, he made sure to kill Kirby, the man who took Andi away..
Oh Quack !

(click to show/hide)

it’s Marci

Didn't Murph confirm her identity in Aftermath?  Seems to me even an uber-powered vamp like Carmilla should be subject to threshold laws.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Ms Duck on June 15, 2012, 07:01:05 PM

Quote from: Warden John Marcone on June 15, 2012, 06:21:42 PM

Didn't Murph confirm her identity in Aftermath?  Seems to me even an uber-powered vamp like Carmilla should be subject to threshold laws.

Not according to the original source books- although im not sure if the issue is even mentioned as a concept. Carlilla's carriage breaks down outside of the estate, and she is invited in. However, she feeds off panel sevral times on various young ladies in the village- as well as prior in the county- and they certianly did not invite her in, or even know she was there.

the first specific 'have to be invited in' is Dracula.
 as to what her appearnce and weaknesses are:

Quote

I may mention, in passing, that the deadly pallor attributed to that sort of revenants, is a mere melodramatic fiction. They present, in the grave, and when they show themselves in human society, the appearance of healthy life. When disclosed to light in their coffins, they exhibit all the symptoms that are enumerated as those which proved the vampire-life of the long-dead Countess Karnstein.

How they escape from their graves and return to them for certain hours every day, without displacing the clay or leaving any trace of disturbance in the state of the coffin or the cerements, has always been admitted to be utterly inexplicable. The amphibious existence of the vampire is sustained by daily renewed slumber in the grave. Its horrible lust for living blood supplies the vigor of its waking existence. The vampire is prone to be fascinated with an engrossing vehemence, resembling the passion of love, by particular persons. In pursuit of these it will exercise inexhaustible patience and stratagem, for access to a particular object may be obstructed in a hundred ways. It will never desist until it has satiated its passion, and drained the very life of its coveted victim. But it will, in these cases, husband and protract its murderous enjoyment with the refinement of an epicure, and heighten it by the gradual approaches of an artful courtship. In these cases it seems to yearn for something like sympathy and consent. In ordinary ones it goes direct to its object, overpowers with violence, and strangles and exhausts often at a single feast.

The vampire is, apparently, subject, in certain situations, to special conditions. In the particular instance of which I have given you a relation, Mircalla seemed to be limited to a name which, if not her real one, should at least reproduce, without the omission or addition of a single letter, those, as we say, anagrammatically, which compose it.

Carmilla did this; so did Millarca.

and.. Marci.. lol

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Cozarkian on June 15, 2012, 07:06:36 PM

Quote from: Ms Duck on June 15, 2012, 07:01:05 PM

Not according to the original source books- although im not sur eif the issue is even mentioned as a concept. Carlilla's carriage breaks down outside of the estate,a nd she is invited in. However, she feeds off panel sevral times on various young ladies in the village- as well as prior in the county- and they certianly did not invite her in, or even know she was there.

the first specific 'have top be invited in' is Dracula.
 as to what her appearnce and weaknesses are:

One possibility, Dracula could be a more accurate how-to guide published by the White Court while the other books are stories published by others depicting (slightly) embellished perceptions of powerful monsters.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Ms Duck on June 15, 2012, 07:09:19 PM

Quote from: Cozarkian on June 15, 2012, 07:06:36 PM

One possibility, Dracula could be a more accurate how-to guide published by the White Court while the other books are stories published by others depicting (slightly) embellished perceptions of powerful monsters.

True enough, excpet Carmilla was first. Dracula actually copied it, in many respects. ( in RL, Stoker mugged it like a small kid with a giant bag of candy.)

and the second problem is that what we know of the Black Court doesn't ,match Dracula worth a darn, either. Frankly, it matches Lovecraft much better.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Cozarkian on June 15, 2012, 07:18:50 PM

Quote from: Ms Duck on June 15, 2012, 07:09:19 PM

True enough, excpet Carmilla was first. Dracula actually copied it, in many respects. ( in RL, Stoker mugged it like a small kid with a giant bag of candy.)

That's my point. Maybe some normal human wrote Carmilla based upon their perceptions, which gave the White Court vamps an idea to publish a more accurate how-to guide.

Quote from: Ms Duck on June 15, 2012, 07:09:19 PM

and the second problem is that what we know of the Black Court doesn't ,match Dracula worth a darn, either. Frankly, it matches Lovecraft much better.

... hmm, well, maybe the White Court didn't want to comletely destroy the Blacks so they published a less accruate version? Heck, maybe they published Carmilla and humans were too scared to follow its instructions, so they tried again with Dracula, making the vamps appear weaker so humans would give it a go.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Ms Duck on June 15, 2012, 07:27:11 PM

Quote from: Cozarkian on June 15, 2012, 07:18:50 PM

... hmm, well, maybe the White Court didn't want to comletely destroy the Blacks so they published a less accruate version? Heck, maybe they published Carmilla and humans were too scared to follow its instructions, so they tried again with Dracula, making the vamps appear weaker so humans would give it a go.

It's all kind of Iffy. For example: in some ways, Dracula was much stronger; he had powers Carmilla did not. In other ways he was weaker; he had to physcihally return (and move) his coffin from place to place, Carmilla could do the ghost thing.

Im not sur ehow much- if at all- Jim will sue this. It may just be a neat idea in the background. That, or Lovecraft may be the closest source.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness
Post by: Ms Duck on December 12, 2012, 10:46:17 PM

A Pancake in a Sphere of Jell-O

---

Introduction
   We are geeks. And we often wonder ‘who can beat who?’ Jim is a geek, and he sometimes answers. We now know some gods are stronger than others, and some gods are much, much stronger than others. We know that if Mab fought the Erlking, the entire wild hunt, and all the Denarians it would be a game of whack a mole. But being geeks, we wonder why? What is it that makes Mab so much stronger then Odin, and makes Uriel so much stronger then Mab?
   A while back I compiled a rough list, of the approximate magical powers of these beings, based on real world equivalents (in Joules):

Harry: 10^7th (can throw lightning, blast some houses to pieces)
Eb: 10^11 (create minor earthquakes, level whole buildings)
Lea: 10^17 (power enough to level cities) (lesser god)
Mab: 10^18-10^20 (power of a major hurricane, can change climate on a large scale)(major god)
solar energy, one day 5*10^22
asteroid that killed dinosaurs: 5*10^23
solar output, per second: 3.8*10^26
power of the death star: 2*10^32 (destroy small planets)(greater god?)
doomsday machine: 5*10^41 (destroy big planets)
Galactus approx.: 6.9*10^41 (cosmic god?)
observable galaxy: 10^59
what harry thinks Uriel is, minimum: 10^62
the big G god: over 10^68 (aka, the observable universe)

   Now one thing this list does show is that everyone Lea level and over is a ‘nuclear armed power’ as Jim refers to things. You don’t start wars with nuclear states, because there can’t be a winner. What you do is use agents, proxy wars, small conflicts, and negotiations to solve your conflicts.

On the Origins of Magic

   In the DF, magic is a natural force. It originates form living things, emotions of living things, and by Word of Mother Winter, it is conserved like any other source of power. Therefore, as it comes from life, its total amount on earth must be less than the total amount of energy available on earth, about 274 million Giga watts per year. This sounds like an absurd amount, but realize it’s just a tiny fraction of the power some of these ‘god’ appear to have. How then does one explain this? Either Magic is not conserved, or beings are able to draw on more than one world.

The NN is vast

   We know from Jim the NN expands outwards, from the Earth, to the edge of the moon. We know it is a sphere, and can conclude this is the limit of magical energy radiated from the life on earth. We know from Bob that it exists in far more than the four dimensions humans can normally perceive, and from discussions about precognition we can speculate that higher beings in it can perceive alternate pasts, presents, and futures. First, how big is it?
   Even in conventional dimensions its huge: 237 *10^5th cubic Km… that’s enough for over 23,460 earths even if we just assume normal reality. In 11 dimensions, the number becomes insane.. 9,188,2801,591,004,303,761,991,879,201,232,836,019,976,271,010,838,154,206,141 possible alternate earths. Well, there is your power source.

Conclusion

Imagine a circle, or a pancake if you will; this is the radius of the NN in our reality. then imagine a cylinder, a giant stack of pancakes; this is the multiverse.
Some entities, such as the Red Court, feed off only small bites. Others, worldwide beings such as Mab, feed off of a harvest drawn from entire worlds. Still others feed off of collections of worlds, or possibly empires in the thousands or millions of worlds. Scaling upwards, there are beings that eat entire grand slams worth of pancakes on a regular basis. What can we draw from such things?
First, such beings don’t compete over individual worlds with all their power, it simply not worth it to risk upsetting the table over a single pancake. Instead they send agents, who hire local talent, and have a negotiated game- the influence you can exert over each world is equivalent to the number of worshipers you have. That’s why the classical gods left and the Abrahamic god took over; he won a round of the great game.
Second the outsiders are very likely just that- from outside. Imagine another world, much like our own, but in another part of the galaxy. Imagine one god there won. It owns all the pancakes. But now its still hungry, and wants more. It’s sending expeditions out to find new pancakes to eat.
This would imply either it’s only attacking our pancake now, or on each pancake, there is a Mab or Mab equivalent who is in charge of the local defense. I’m heading to the latter.. as it would explain why Mab has more power than any other local god, and why she gets power from her purpose. The ‘UN’ of Cosmic Gods is feeding Mab power to help with her ‘local defense’ much like how a superpower would send aid to a local power in the real world.
The UN isn’t going to get involved at this stage, because they don’t want to start an all-out war between worlds. This is why none of the cosmic powers were involved in Cold Days. At the same time, the outsiders are going to be trying to get them involved, because they think the superpowers are liable to start fighting amongst themselves, and thus cause chaos and let them in.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness [spoilers for every book Jim ever wrote or ever will]
Post by: mithrandirthewhite on December 13, 2012, 04:09:51 AM

And thus there is room for both you and Spidey.  Also, isn't Jim planning a Mirror Mirror style book?

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness [spoilers for every book Jim ever wrote or ever will]
Post by: Ms Duck on December 13, 2012, 04:15:23 AM

Quote from: mithrandirthewhite on December 13, 2012, 04:09:51 AM

And thus there is room for both you and Spidey.  Also, isn't Jim planning a Mirror Mirror style book?

thats oen of the things that gave me the idea.

Title: Re: A Badelynge of Quackiness [spoilers for every book Jim ever wrote or ever will]
Post by: Serack on October 25, 2013, 04:42:30 PM

Discussion of the above theory (Pancake Universe) can be found in this archived topic.

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,35811.msg1700985.html#msg1700985