It is a way to establish themselves as a distinct power.I'd imagine they'd have to establish themselves as a power first. I'm not sure if they've done that at this point, but that's the first step. No one is going to take them seriously until they've demonstrated power.
Except as a human wizard she is simply claimed by the council.If she is separately signed to the Accords on behalf of the Paranet -- which the White Council is obligated to honor -- that explicit obligation supersedes the mere tradition of "human wizard = WC"
[1]PT is where the masquerade breaks. ... [2]Its either that or piss off a species 7 billion strong. ...[3]if Elaine shows up, she might throw in her lot too.[1] Do we know that it is in PT, or just that it is beginning to happen and will happen?
And the White Council has to leave her [Elaine] alone, because she's a Signatory of a different Accorded Member. ... UNLESS the Paranet then becomes the Spookyside / Muggle interface, and a full-scale military action becomes the default response to every Paranet'er killed? That's pretty deterring...That's a big problem for the Paranet becoming a member of the Accords. Perhaps the biggest point of the White Council is to police mortal practitioners (by killing the ones who step out of line). The WC and Paranet would likely be at war constantly.
Except as a human wizard she is simply claimed by the council.Can the Council just claim her? That appears to be what her and Harry think in Summer Knight and Harry and Ramirez imply it in White Night, but I've always been skeptical about that. Jim has said repeatedly that what makes a wizard is power, skill, and dedication. Plenty of people powerful enough to be White Council don't make it.
[1] Do we know that it is in PT, or just that it is beginning to happen and will happen?Who are human but not strong and versatile enough for the white council.
[2]The Paranet is for mortal practitioners who aren't human, not all humans.
[3]Why would anyone care what Elaine says? Harry's signature only mattered for Marcone because he was a warden commander for the area.They police them because they claim them. Accord factions police their own.
That's a big problem for the Paranet becoming a member of the Accords. Perhaps the biggest point of the White Council is to police mortal practitioners (by killing the ones who step out of line). The WC and Paranet would likely be at war constantly.
The whole point of the Accords is to maintain the masquerade. If the Paranetters say "we're going to end the masquerade if anyone messes with us," then they are putting a huge target on themselves.Elaine has all three and Ramirez would have claimed her for the wardens if she had showed her real power and ability.
Can the Council just claim her? That appears to be what her and Harry think in Summer Knight and Harry and Ramirez imply it in White Night, but I've always been skeptical about that. Jim has said repeatedly that what makes a wizard is power, skill, and dedication. Plenty of people powerful enough to be White Council don't make it.
I'd imagine they'd have to establish themselves as a power first. I'm not sure if they've done that at this point, but that's the first step. No one is going to take them seriously until they've demonstrated power.
@BadAlias: Oh, I butchered my argument, my bad. I meant that I believe that Peace Talks is gonna get so crazy that the masquerade is gonna get broken.Too soon based on the books he still has to write :)
All those humans could eventually at some point be what makes the Paranet so powerful, as many humans could want their help as opposed to the White Council. Maybe eventually its the Paranet that replaces the White Council. At first I thought PT was the beginning of the masquerade breaking but then Butcher brought out 'Christmas Eve' and those numbers made me rethink that.No way. If the council recognises individual wizards with their retainers as accord members every warlock under pressure is going to try that. Kemmler would have been a member. The council will claim her and she gets a grey cloack and no other members will complain so she better keeps her head low.
Hm, well those all good points about the Accords. Maybe Elaine will display enough power to get the Paranet recognized and Harry would probably be pretty willing to help out with that.
... No way. If the council recognises individual wizards with their retainers as accord members every warlock under pressure is going to try that.The White Council doesn't get a say: they are subject to the Accords, not in charge of them.
Kemmler would have been a member.The de-facto WC position seems to have been that Kemmler was a member -- they killed him for breaking WC laws. If Kemmler had been willing to abide by those laws, and showed up at Council meetings to be a voting member, they'd have been "yeah, sure, strong enough, of course you're on the WC."
... The council will claim her and she gets a grey cloack and no other members will complain so she better keeps her head low.They need to persuade everyone to go Greycloak, they can't force them (because one unwilling battlemage in a group, who decided to go rogue to escape, could destroy the whole group by a strategically chosen moment to rebel). Harry wasn't happy to put it on, but in the end he chose to.
Who are human but not strong and versatile enough for the white council.Are you saying that the Paranet is every human who isn't on the White Council, or are you putting an upper bracket on my lower bracket description?
They police them because they claim them. Accord factions police their own.
Elaine has all three and Ramirez would have claimed her for the wardens if she had showed her real power and ability.
@BadAlias: I meant that I believe that Peace Talks is gonna get so crazy that the masquerade is gonna get broken. ... At first I thought PT was the beginning of the masquerade breaking but then Butcher brought out 'Christmas Eve' and those numbers made me rethink that.I don't think it will be broken until very close to the end of the series, but I'd say that it has already started breaking based on some comments in one of the books after Changes. I can't remember which, but it was something like "it's getting bad, Harry. Even the media is beginning to take notice of weird things happening."
if 3 members sign up a Warlock, that's 3 members who are on the Council's kill-list.I'd say that's the case only if signing up someone is allying with them. I'd say it's not because Marcone and the Council aren't allies. Though, I imagine the Council would definitely not appreciate those three members doing that.
The White Council doesn't get a say: they are subject to the Accords, not in charge of them.Not in charge of the accords but they claim authority over human magic users and that claim is recognised by the other accords members. See white Night. And that is the reason why the accords are no help for warlocks.
A prospective Accord member just has to get a few existing Accord members to sign/sponsor them. That's how Marcone got in. In the abstract, that's how rando-warlock could get in.Marcone was not claimed by any other faction. If he was the whole thing would have been more complicated.
(Of course, the newly-Accorded party needs to demonstrate they CAN play in the Big Leagues... note how the Denarian's attacked Marcone, with the cover-story that they were removing a "presumptuous upstart" not really "entitled" to be Accorded; and without an Accorded protest, that action would evidently be allowed to stand! So if Rando-Warlocks tried to get Accorded -- and actually got the signatures -- then the WC could just "Nope" and arrest them anyhow; then see if anyone else wanted to protest, in that "Willing to paint a big sign on myself saying, PrimaryTargetOfWhiteCouncil" way... Maybe add a day of waiting before the execution?).The paranetters do not have enough weight for that. They are prey or people to protect.
But the WAG here is NOT Elaine getting recognized as an individual wizard (with retainers), but the Paranet, the organization (with her at the head, admittedly) getting recognized. What the Paranet needs -- since they aren't ON the White Council -- is enough mojo to make a credible showing in their own right.
I'm WAG'ing that they CAN muster that mojo, as follows...Member is a big word. The white council position is that as a human wizard he was their responsibility. But I meant member of the accords. He had more power than some members but he did not try that. Most likely because he could not, the white council had already claimed authority.
Elaine shows up as splashy and powerful, to be The Face, to make an impression. But there's a LOT of paranet'ers. The same way Ordo Lebes joined forces to raise wards that none of them could have solo'ed, Elaine's own magical-theorycraft & position (coordinating a continentful of Paranet'ers!) could let her gather quite a bit of power into items and enchantments. A bit of Cassandra's-Tears precog in battle (so she knows what EVERY foe is most-likely to do, a second or two before they do it) and many many more little bits of advantage. The ocean itself is made up of many many drops of water, after all; and Elaine's capacity to contain and inform and concentrate and leverage those little bits of power could produce truly formidable results. She could probably get serious power-boosts for some lieutenant-y figures, too... imagine if all the Alpha's had a half-dozen Paranet-given battle-buff's, for example.
And maybe (or rather, probably) Agent "I can magically tell when you are lying" Tilly as a Paranet member... and his backup, the 70000+ Special Forces operatives the US military maintains; some of whom can -- in the leadup to the Peace Talks -- be given a Spooky Infodump & special training for Whamps, Blamps, Summer & Winter Courts, Wildfae & The Hunt, various were's and other shapeshifters, etc etc etc...
Masquerade bye-bye.
The de-facto WC position seems to have been that Kemmler was a member -- they killed him for breaking WC laws. If Kemmler had been willing to abide by those laws, and showed up at Council meetings to be a voting member, they'd have been "yeah, sure, strong enough, of course you're on the WC."
They don't try to assert a death-penalty on every Whamp who does a psychic takeover of mortals, for example, because the WC's Laws don't apply to Whamps.Not members as such but the white council claims them.
They don't invite minor talents to join the Council, because not strong enough; so Paranet talents aren't part of the WC, aren't Accorded.
The WC (Harry) chose to assert protection over them, but they aren't part of the Accords. The WC also chooses to visit/warn any group or individual they notice developing enough power to potentially break the Laws, and order them not to do that; but that's more akin to how Vamps order their mortal minions/food around. Justine cannot make her own claim under the Accords; but she can present Lara's claim.She does not have the power to refuse the white council. Just one wizard and a lot of nobodies. And refusing the cloack might not be an option. Harry got drafted.
It boils down to GETTING onto the Accords with the sponsoring member's signing you up; then STAYING there when a whole bunch of next-level powers start testing your new status -- there is no "spirit of the Accords" (except maybe a "Law of the Jungle" spirit).
So if Elaine makes a Paranet-based claim -- if she gets the signatures -- then the Paranet is an Accorded party. Maybe the WC then says to her "hey, you're one of US!" At that point -- with a separate Accorded power-base -- she might not even protest that much (or she might deny them, pointing to their prior tests, and say it's the Paranet that gives her enough power). But she could be BOTH Paranet AND on the WC... then she's Accorded under both groups (as are, for example Vadderung / Kringle, or a certain WC-Warden & the Winter Knight, and I presume others).
They need to persuade everyone to go Greycloak, they can't force them (because one unwilling battlemage in a group, who decided to go rogue to escape, could destroy the whole group by a strategically chosen moment to rebel). Harry wasn't happy to put it on, but in the end he chose to.
As above, she can probably refuse the WC, under a separate Accorded status (but I suspect she would not, because WC membership would enhance her abuility to elevate the Paranet). But she WOULD likely refuse to Greycloak, because she cannot reasonably do her head-of-Paranet duties while being subject to Warden Command.
3) There is NO WAY the paraneters today have the the power to establish themselves as an accord nation. Their power is just way too weak. I do not care how powerful Elaine is, you would need a hundred Elaines to begin to have enough power to establish the paraneters as a true supernatural nation under the accords.
3) The Paranet might be able to establish themselves as a 2nd tier organization like that human society that is an ally of the White Council. Clearly much weaker than the White Council or any other full accord member, but they have some formal status/place within the larger supernatural community and could formally ally with one of the supernatural nations like the White Council. That status would give them more protection/status than they have today and I think that is one of the two possible outcomes Harry planned for when establishing the Paranet to begin with. The other (preferred) being that the White Council expands itself to include the lesser talents.
Why? Why should a representative from Paranet take place at Peace Talks?Because Elaine thinks her debt to Summer is over but that is far from certain, those debts are usually not that easy to get rid of (there is old woj about that if I remember correctly). She probably does not want to get involved, the white council might notice her, but she might not have any choice. But then she probably wants the paranet to keep out of it.
Paranet is an info network for people who have some connection to the supernatural to be able to communicate and help each other out. It's the paranormal version of a neighborhood watch.
White Council is doing it's best to protect and police human wizards, because they are human. The reason Paranet had to come into existence was that White Council suffered extreme losses and didn't have enough people. So lesser talents were suddenly encountering issues that were originally take care by the Wardens or a freelance wizard of the White Council.
White council are the guys with the big guns who can take big monsters down. That gives them the right to have become a member of the Accords.
You know, I hadn't considered that Elaine would be a disruptive force. But hey, I think they could also ally with the Venatori Umborium and that would work pretty well. I know most of the Paranet don't have the means to defend themselves, but I figure that on the whole, they'd want to change that. Especially after White Night.
Hm, well Peace Talks is supposed to be huge, so maybe she's squeezed in there somewhere. Maybe we'll get to see Thomas and Elaine interact again, but that's just me.
When last we heard of the Paranet in Ghost Story, they were under attack with large numbers gone missing. That was six months after Changes. Are there any Paraneter's left? Elaine would be as busy as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs trying to help them or betray them , since Molly put Ramirez in the hospital.
Also being slow as I age, who is having Peace Talks? Is there a WOJ on this?
Not that I know of, however judging from the two teaser chapters that Harry is going to have a lot to do with the security for the talks, my guess would be the White Council. But then again Harry is also the Winter Knight so it could be that Mab thinks it would be a good idea to have them. If I remember correctly there is a bit of history between the Winter Court and the Fomor.Two chapters?
Two chapters?
Chapter one was available to donors on some game Kickstarter. Maybe the Dresden RPG.Prob'ly the card game... the RPG is about a decade old, now!