If sponsorship got you out of it, then everyone who ever plays a focused practicioner is going to look for some obscure source to make his magic sponsored.There is a difference between a Lawbreaker and a lawbreaker. A wizard that is thought to use magic to kill is a lawbreaker. A wizard that actually uses magic to kill is a Lawbreaker.
And I disagree. It doesn't matter who's gun you are using, it matters that you are the one using it.Yes, as you have said.
On the point about the wardens, I think Sponsorship actually reduces the likelihood they go after you. After all, council politics means that they frequently don't want to rock the boat with major supernatural powers by beheading their lackeys.
For example, Kemmlerian Necromancy is about as evil as you can get, and in narrative terms is really just a very powerful school of mortal magic. So yes, I'd say using that to break the laws would change your soul and get you Lawbreaker.
Hellfire and Soulfire aren't independent power on their own. They enhance and alter your existing magical talents. So you're still using your own magic, you're just getting a boost from the infernal or divine realm. As such, definitely Lawbreaker for using it to break the laws.
I can see pure sponsored magic avoiding lawbreaker in some situations, but that the cost and limits of it being only at the whim of the sponcer should be a similar set of limits and drawbacks (I've had the discussion here before), but it also seems from the books that if you have your own magic, sponsored magic adds a boost on top, and you are still fully libel. The one or two points you saved by already having mortal magic are the points that would have carried the ignore lawbreaker with this specific power only effect... (the effect you get with the vampire feeding and mind control powers as already priced in)
And I can agree with that - if you're using it as a boost to your own magic (narratively), then you'd be subject to Lawbreaker stunts. But if you're a Knight of a Faerie Court - designated specifically to mess around with the humans the Ladies and Queens can't touch - I don't see why you couldn't fireball some guy with a gun.Oh, I think you'd definitely get the power - but there's nobody around to tell you it's bad. You're not under the laws of the Wardens anymore - you're being governed by the Fae Court. So I guess instead of the slide so much into evil, the getting of the power this way would be the slide more into service of the Fae Courts. But I can see there's a ton of disagreement on this point, so it's pretty moot and pretty much the way you play your game.
1) Correct
2) Correct
3) Up to your group/GM.
Mechanically, referring to Lawbreaker stunts, it is recommended that you discuss this and reach a decision before it comes up. Personally, I think it's a matter of the character involved. If they break a law out of necessity, by accident, or if there is some grey area they are unsure of, it's possible for them to pick up the stunt. If they feel remorse for having done it, and don't intend to do it again, I'd be more forgiving about forcing the stunt on them. On the other hand, if it was intentional, they are glad to have broken the law, and/or plan to do it again when the opportunity presents itself, they're a lawbreaker, sponsor or no. Again this is just my personal approach, I'd like to see it be character driven rather than hard and fast rules.
Story wise, the Wardens oversee all magic users who are mortals. White Council members might get the stink eye from them more often, but I am certain that no Warden would have any hesitation about cutting down a sponsored magic user if they were blatantly breaking laws. If you have an argument to the contrary, that can be roleplayed at the table. Most likely at swordpoint. ;)
Hey - as an aside - does Sponsored Magic still side-effect hex stuff? My gut says "yes, definitely", but I've seen people say, "lol, no, of course not."
Actually wardens only fool with mortal magic users. Fae knights don't sling mortal magic, they sling fae magic. They are not subject to the Laws, just like the Denarians. Whether this applies to the mechanics of the world is another story though. The wardens can't hunt down the summer knight because he offs someone with a fiery butterfly. He's not subject to their laws, only titania and the accords. Whether killing another human with magic twists him into a monster or not is really up to jim (canonwise) and iago and company (game mechanics wise for the "real game") or your GM (house rules style)
Sponsored magic operates outside wc law when the sponsor is a member of the accords and is powerful enough to challenge the council itself. If you think you can kill with magic sponsored by a lesser dragon, you'll probably be tasting Warden steel by breakfast.
1) You can't take Refinements.
2) You can take rotes.
3) Up for debate.
I understand this distinction but I read "mortal magic user" as a mortal who uses magic of any sort. Fae Knights are partially mortal, are they not? I thought their semi-mortality was what made them so valuable to the Courts. Or does Fae Knight refer to something else? I was assuming the "Knight of a Faerie Court" template in the book. Following that, they are part mortal, so I'd assume a Warden could be obliged to remove whatever portion of their head that the Fae don't claim as "theirs". Is there stuff in the books about Wardens not doing so? I'm only on the 3rd one so far. I don't mean to be argumentative, I would really like to know if that's the case - although I don't like it if it is.
I was literally just about to post that John Galt. I think that sponsored magic (magic that's not your own) might not always break one of the rules of the universe, but it may well break the rules of the wardens and, unless you have protection from the wardens by a member of the accords that they aren't at war with, they'll chop your head off if they can.i think the stain your soul bit only applies if its YOUR magic, not you just channeling titanias or mabs magic.. but idk. we'd need a WOJ for that i think.
Plus, if you read the lawbreaker stunt, it states why those laws exist. Even with a sponsor, I think the first four laws will still stain your 'soul' and the last 3 laws will still break the natural order, no matter where the power originates.
I have been reading and listening to this one. And I think there is a point some are missing.
Sponsored Magic. Means someone is lending you magic. You call on them and they either GRANT or DENY you power.
If a dragon sponsors you, and while not on a specific duty for the dragon you toast someone, or abuse your magic, I would think the dragon would simply DENY you that power you are attempting to summon. Think of it.
You go in for the killing blow and the sponsor DENIES you power. So there you are, powerless, and the foe you had been attempting to kill now has the upper hand.
Just goes to show that all power needs to be used responsibly. Why does the spider man quote always pop up in my head.
(which should be an Extreme Level 2 consequence of a social conflict with a Queen at BEST).
Not even that; not to go into spoilers, but I'm fairly certain that the mantle can only be revoked upon the death of the Knight. This was a plot point.
again not to get into spoilers but an interview with mr. butcher stated that not even in death.Because