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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Aiotanga on August 08, 2022, 08:22:53 AM
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Nemfection is rife within the White Court. Papa Raith has an Outsider protection spell on him. Vittorio Malvora bound himself to one. Justine was nemfected with access to the highest of the court. Knowing this state of affairs, Mab has set Harry on a collision course to clear the court. Whether or not he marries Lara, there will be a red wedding.
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Harry’s already housecleaned much of the White Court.
My theory is that the White Court are due a major change, they can be openly what they are and be accepted by humanity, because of the population increase there are enough humans willing to be preyed upon that they do not need unwilling victims, and humans no longer need them as a predator to force development of society and technology as the White Court could easily be wiped out by humanity if government and its weapons were deployed against them.
Those left after Harry’s various interventions are the survivors ca-ablenof accepting such change.
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Nemfection is rife within the White Court...
Harry’s already housecleaned much of the White Court...
What if it's specifically the Raiths' problem, not Whamp'dom in general?
And "housecleaning" Papa&Justine isn't (not nearly!) good enough? Madrigal's jinn ("inherited" from his father!) was supposedly a "cutoff," perhaps because he knew about the Outsiders, but wasn't sufficiently devoted to the Outsider cause...?
I'm definitely in the camp that thinks Mab is aiming her Starborn Knight at the Whamps. I just don't know the scope of her plan... a few more individuals, even just one? Much of Raith? All the Whamps, everywhere? Each of these is demonstrably a "plausible" target.
But honestly, it's all among the most-speculative of speculations!
Here's another WAG -- not invested in it, but... well... there's no counter-proof, AFAIK...
Taking the theory of "Whamps are corrupted Etruscan Erusii, genuine Love-spirits (instead of Lust)" ...
What if Mab has set Harry up to:
(1) sequester Thomas (in the throes of True Love) behind the most-massive mortal Wards in existence;
(2) wipe out most/all other (corrupted) Whamps;
(3) pay weregild to the Svartalves;
(4) bring Thomas back to re-found the True Erus Line (which had originally been one of the pillars of anti-Outsider power (True Love being a Really Big Deal in the Dresden'verse))
Just a thought... ;)
I think it's a bit too rainbows-and-sparkles for Jim.
But honestly, there's as much "evidence" for this as there is for many other WAGs!
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Nemesis can only infect up to 13 individuals at a time and probably less with stronger hosts, Nemesis tends to target power structures near but not at the top therefore Justine was likely the only target in the WC. Cowl got to the others.
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Nemesis can only infect up to 13 individuals at a time
Care to support this? I think "how many simultaneous Nemfections" is an ongoing topic of discussion & debate. I don't think anyone has cited canon, so what's the basis of your WAG?
(Mind you, "13" is as good a number as any, I think... and better than most!)
... and probably less with stronger hosts ...
I think it may be that the "stronger hosts" simply cannot be reliably held, over the long term.
(Maeve, in the end, was weak. She resented Mab, she resented the limits the LadyMantle placed upon her (specially, I suspect, the "do not lie" & the "chastity/virginity" clauses)... she resented Winter itself.
... Justine was likely the only target in the WC. Cowl got to the others.
Dunno about that: Cowl seems to have been "using" Vittorio, but Vito was possessed by an Outsider. I think the evidence is, the Outsiders "got to" him... I strongly suggest that "Outsider possession" overrides any prior loyalty or advantage Vito saw in Cowl.
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The question always comes down to why. Why make the White Court weaker if you are looking for strong allies? The attacks on the White Court almost certainly have to be about the Oblivion War. If no mortal remembers the Outsiders then no mortal can summon them, effectively locking them out of reality. This aligns with Mab's goals.
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The likelihood was that Lord Raith was working with the Outsiders, and Lara and Thomas working against them in the Oblivion War. Control of the White Court therefore had a much wider impact.
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Given the way Butcher has constructed his Universe then in the end all Vampires would have to die assuming that they are immortal. Along with pretty much any entity that could show a mortal how to summon an Outsider or whatever the Oblivion War is trying to keep out.
The likelihood was that Lord Raith was working with the Outsiders, and Lara and Thomas working against them in the Oblivion War. Control of the White Court therefore had a much wider impact.
We agree, although Papa Raith didn't strike me as a team player.
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The question always comes down to why. Why make the White Court weaker if you are looking for strong allies?
Why would Mab make the White Court weaker?
Think of it like a major surgery: it will "weaken" you in the short term, but generally allows for you to heal to a stronger state than before the surgery.
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Given the way Butcher has constructed his Universe then in the end all Vampires would have to die assuming that they are immortal. Along with pretty much any entity that could show a mortal how to summon an Outsider or whatever the Oblivion War is trying to keep out.We agree, although Papa Raith didn't strike me as a team player.
His children were acting against him in secret, and he probably told no one about the protection granted to him by The Outsiders, Lara probably suspected, making her ripe for approach, perhaps by one of the former Archives. All she would have to do is to be aware of the Archives role and to write “My father, Lord Raith is in contact with The Outsiders, Lara” and then destroy it. This would suggests Lara’s rebellion may have been brewing for some time.
Lord Raith may have been The Outsiders backstop, an immortal with the knowledge to summon them protected from harm by their power. Even if all other Outsider agents are eliminated then he survives, spreading the knowledge anew. That makes Raith the antithesis of the Archive.
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Mab may not be anti-Raith as such, but may be anti-Papa and thinks she can work with Lara. If Lara then arranges events that weaken the other Houses within the Court, it strengthens Lara's hold. She has her Knight in a position of power within the Court, where he can pass along info (but - what happens if his loyalties are divided between his Queen and his wife?)
Harry has shown some ability at geomancy - could he repair the Deeps for Lara? Even crude walls and a ceiling could later be refined like the polished tunnel walls by human contractors. Though Harry is likely more crush rock than carve rock.
Did we ever conform Papa's shield is Outsider-powered? It's a good possibility, maybe probability, but even the likes of the Forest People have an immunity, so maybe someone else can bestow it too.
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River Shoulders ground magic, Raith just shrugs it off, the former is a magic user the latter isn’t.
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... Did we ever conform Papa's shield is Outsider-powered? It's a good possibility, maybe probability ...
I *think* so. I think Harry got an "Outsider-flavor" from his attempt to cast on Raith Pere.
... the likes of the Forest People have an immunity, so maybe someone else can bestow it too.
They aren't "immune" -- they simply understand the magic well enough to ground a spell and dissipate it. Presumably enough power, or enough different spells cast simultaneously, could overwhelm them; or if they were unconscious, they couldn't do it.
Papa Raith just has an aura that sucks the magic away, whether or not he "does" anything. I suspect Harry -- with the right approach -- could have Starborn'ed his way past that aura, if he had understood in the earlier books what he understands in the later books.
His children were acting against him in secret ...
He had largely controlled his daughters. They weren't acting very much against him, because he could have had any secret out of them in a trice. He had killed all his sons except Thomas, who only survived because:
- he assiduously avoided Whamp Politics, building a power-base, or anything else that Papa could have construed as a threat
- (I have a WAG that) Margaret may have hinted to Papa that she had set "special" protections on Thomas, and Papa was unwilling to risk it after she had blocked his ability to Feed his Hunger
In general, though, "acting against <X> in secret" is, I think, just the water Whamps swim in... always plotting, always being plotted-against; always conspiring, always being conspired-against.
... he probably told no one about the protection granted to him by The Outsiders, Lara probably suspected ...
Over the (many) years, I expect Raith had been hit with magic more than once, within sight of other Whamps (particularly his daughters (who seemed to act as personal bodyguards?)). That he had some sort of protection seems unlikely to be a well-kept secret. The details, though... I suspect he intentionally dropped multiple contradictory hints. Make a maze of dead-end clues, swim in a school of red herrings. Show up as having a unique & potent ability, that nobody understands.
... Lara probably suspected, making her ripe for approach, perhaps by one of the former Archives. All she would have to do is to be aware of the Archives role and to write “My father, Lord Raith is in contact with The Outsiders, Lara” and then destroy it ...
Lord Raith wasn't AFAIK any kind of "native" talent. All his magic was cast by following written instructions. The Archive already knows all the stuff in his library, Lara doesn't have to tell him.
My own WAG is that most of the Venatori cells in the Oblivion War don't know the Archive is their ultimate boss, nor the mechanism of the Archive in recording information. It would paint too big a target on the Archive, for an Outsider attack. As noted, Lara's will wasn't entirely her own. Papa could have had any of Lara's secrets, and I suspect the Archives wouldn't have risked knowledge of their role & methods in such close proximity to a ruthless mindbender like Lord Raith.
Instead, I posit that the Archives give out "special books" -- heavily-enchanted journals, wrapped in spells of obfuscation & misdirection, with an absolutely tremendous KABOOM booby-trap at the core. They tell their contacts that whatever is written in these journals, will also be written in a matching journal held by the "Oblivion Council." This hides the fact that the Archive sees everything written, and creates a plausible mechanism for 1-way notices.
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... Lord Raith may have been The Outsiders backstop, an immortal with the knowledge to summon them protected from harm by their power. Even if all other Outsider agents are eliminated then he survives, spreading the knowledge anew. That makes Raith the antithesis of the Archive.
That's a fascinating WAG!
I rather like it ...
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Thank you, the Dresdenverse exists in balance so a counterweight to the Archive existing does makes sense.
Lord Raith used a different ritual for powering the entropy curse, he most likely would only bother to commit the Summoning of Outsiders to memory. As a backstop he isn’t mortal and can’t summon himself where the summoner has to be a mortal, but he can teach the ritual to someone else. That way the Archive can’t “see” the stored information. Raith is a living book.
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Lord Raith used a different ritual for powering the entropy curse, he most likely would only bother to commit the Summoning of Outsiders to memory. As a backstop he isn’t mortal and can’t summon himself where the summoner has to be a mortal, but he can teach the ritual to someone else. That way the Archive can’t “see” the stored information. Raith is a living book.
Raith had to learn the Summons somewhere. Almost certainly from a book, though I suppose an Outsider -- or one of their mortal minions -- could have taught it to him. Apparently Papa Raith's library is pretty impressive. I honestly don't think reducing it would occur to him.
But given the Oblivion War tactics are (mostly) about destroying books, I am going to allege that avoiding writing Summoning-Rituals isn't a likely tactic for the Outsider-allies!
I'm entirely unclear that Outsiders would realize that the Archive -- whose obvious function is preserving all knowledge -- is orchestrating the entire Oblivion War... and therefore wouldn't know to try and keep secrets from her.
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- (I have a WAG that) Margaret may have hinted to Papa that she had set "special" protections on Thomas, and Papa was unwilling to risk it after she had blocked his ability to Feed his Hunger
an interesting idea, but I think by now that info would have leaked thru Lara. Earlier in the series, I'd have given it a better chance.
Over the (many) years, I expect Raith had been hit with magic more than once, within sight of other Whamps (particularly his daughters (who seemed to act as personal bodyguards?)). That he had some sort of protection seems unlikely to be a well-kept secret. The details, though... I suspect he intentionally dropped multiple contradictory hints. Make a maze of dead-end clues, swim in a school of red herrings. Show up as having a unique & potent ability, that nobody understands.
They have some anti-magic tech. Those arm wraps they used in the duels. put something similar looking inti his suits. When he is attacked they glow. They are not draining magic, he has them on battery power.
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Lord Raith wasn't AFAIK any kind of "native" talent. All his magic was cast by following written instructions. The Archive already knows all the stuff in his library, Lara doesn't have to tell him.
She may not have connected the dots. There's always a lot of info out there and people do not realize how much or how it links.
1) Tom Clancy was supposedly brought in and asked where he got classified info - and he showed them public sources. They were shocked it was out there.
2) A Princeton undergrad named John Aristotle Philips designed an atomic bomb in the 70s. Not just theory, specifics to build it. Demonstrated all public sources. A lot of people flipped.
3) A day or two before D day
Lara would have to tell the Archive he connected the dots if she learned he had.
Ask a computer geek - it's the difference between data and information. Sorting thru the data to get something usable.
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an interesting idea, but I think by now that info would have leaked thru Lara. Earlier in the series, I'd have given it a better chance.
The WAG (an offhand idea, really; but we need some reason that Raith Sr. had killed all his other sons, but Thomas lived to adulthood).
]Margaret could have hinted -- over the first few years of Thomas' life, where she was being Raith's "senior concubine" -- that she intended her son to LIVE, and had laid some subtle and dangerous warding on Thomas. Raith figured (a) he had years to break down Margaret's resistance, before Thomas' first kill & the awakening of his Hunger; & (b) his own protections would likely suffice, anyhow.
Then Margaret went walkabout. That eliminated (a) ... and made Raith mad as hell: no woman should be ABLE to reject him! So he tracked her down and had her killed... and her death-curse got him despite his protections! Which, obviously, rendered (b) moot too.
And then Thomas showed absolutely zero inclination to "play politics." So Papa Raith played the long waiting game.
As for Lara -- Thomas ascribes her hands-off approach to him as being a limited bit of family loyalty... but what if she's worried about whatever protections Margaret left on Thomas?
Margaret LeFay escaped her father at the peak of his powers, and then managed to land a curse on him that lasted for decades. And Harry... well, Lara has seen Harry in action. He saw through her papa's charade, in just one night. He killed a bunch of baddies in the Deeps, including summoning lava in Chicago. And then, when there was no way to survive, he saved them both. Lara was giving the sexuality her all... and Harry used her for sex, instead of succumbing. He took the full force of a Whamp, and channeled it into his willpower in an entirely non-erotic fashion. At this point, Lara is likely very cautious about the abilities of that family!
They have some anti-magic tech. Those arm wraps they used in the duels.
I think those arm-bands were a unique item, probably stolen, traded... even bought (from Svartalves?). They could even have been White Council work (I'm sure at least a few wizards have gotten Whamp-whammied over the years, and served the White Court in return for some o' that sweet, sweet luvvin' (or, as noted, straight-up theft)).
... put something similar looking inti his suits. When he is attacked they glow. They are not draining magic, he has them on battery power.
I don't have my copy of Blood Rites to hand (grrrr). I'd like to look at the descriptions of the protections on Lord Raith, vs the ones in the armbands. I don't remember them being similar (the glowy runes, etc).
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Your wish is my command. From Blood Rites.
I reached out through the cane for Lord Raith—
And felt nothing. Not just empty air and drifting dust, but nothing. A cold and somehow hungry emptiness that filled the space where he should have been. I'd felt something like it before, when I'd been near a mote of one of the deadliest substances that any world of flesh or spirit had ever known. My power, my magic, the flowing spirit of life, just vanished into it without getting near Raith.
I couldn't touch him. The void around him was so absolute, I knew without needing to doubt that there was nothing in my arsenal of arcane skills that could affect him.
The glow is from Raith using his stored reserves to heal himself.Then Raith's flesh began to glow. His shirt was in shreds, and he tore it from him with a negligent gesture. His skin became suffused with a pale light once more, and I saw his body rippling weirdly around an ungainly hole left of his navel. He was healing.
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The allusion is to Mordite which is congealed anti-life and associated with Outsiders. The Archive had a lump, which as the force behind the Oblivion War may be expected to have been captured in the course of that War. Hades had several lumps as his Crown, again the Greek Gods led the defence of the Outer Gates before Winter and these could be expected to spoils of war. Peabody had the Mist
RaithWraith used to attack the White Council. That is why it is likely Raith’s protector is an Outsider.
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I'll take your word for it. Butcher has been inconsistent on this point, to state it mildly.
The arm wraps in White Knight were some kind of magical artifact. I didn't have time to look at the relevant text earlier. Here it is now.Glitters of golden light ran up and down the symbols on the cloth strips wrapped around his arms. I understood, then. Ramirez's second shot had been a demonstration.
"He's warded!" Ramirez snarled.
One thing is not like the other. Madrigal was warded and Papa Raith had something else.
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The WAG (an offhand idea, really; but we need some reason that Raith Sr. had killed all his other sons, but Thomas lived to adulthood).
I always figured the reason why Papa Raith didn't kill Thomas was that he was unable to perform his "kiss of death," or if he could still perform it, it would take too much energy weakening him in the long run. Papa Raith always used this ability to kill off his other sons, and it would look strange that Thomas was killed in another way. The rest of the White Court would see this as something changed with Papa Raith, which could then lead to him losing power.
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I always figured the reason why Papa Raith didn't kill Thomas was that he was unable to perform his "kiss of death," or if he could still perform it, it would take too much energy weakening him in the long run. Papa Raith always used this ability to kill off his other sons, and it would look strange that Thomas was killed in another way. The rest of the White Court would see this as something changed with Papa Raith, which could then lead to him losing power.
I don't think that rationale works, though... I'm pretty sure it's implied that Papa Raith incestuously controlled his daughters via the Whampy erotic mind-control thing (until Lara turned the tables on him).
He didn't (couldn't?) do the same to his sons because (I think? less clear here) of his own homophobia (which likely rules out the "Kiss of Death").
Also note that he killed Madrigal's father (his own brother?) by having him "go sky-diving without a parachute" -- again, no KoD, for someone who's presumably a rival and a threat.
I don't think we actually have any canon or WoJ on exactly how Raith killed his other sons (or even if he did it himself, vs. "arranging" it).
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I'll take your word for it. Butcher has been inconsistent on this point, to state it mildly.
The arm wraps in White Knight were some kind of magical artifact. I didn't have time to look at the relevant text earlier. Here it is now.One thing is not like the other. Madrigal was warded and Papa Raith had something else.
Correct one was a countermeasure, force against force Papa Raith was the equivalent of a magical black hole.
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The WAG (an offhand idea, really; but we need some reason that Raith Sr. had killed all his other sons, but Thomas lived to adulthood).
]Margaret could have hinted -- over the first few years of Thomas' life, where she was being Raith's "senior concubine" -- that she intended her son to LIVE, and had laid some subtle and dangerous warding on Thomas. Raith figured (a) he had years to break down Margaret's resistance, before Thomas' first kill & the awakening of his Hunger; & (b) his own protections would likely suffice, anyhow.
Then Margaret went walkabout. That eliminated (a) ... and made Raith mad as hell: no woman should be ABLE to reject him! So he tracked her down and had her killed... and her death-curse got him despite his protections! Which, obviously, rendered (b) moot too.
And then Thomas showed absolutely zero inclination to "play politics." So Papa Raith played the long waiting game.
As for Lara -- Thomas ascribes her hands-off approach to him as being a limited bit of family loyalty... but what if she's worried about whatever protections Margaret left on Thomas?
Margaret LeFay escaped her father at the peak of his powers, and then managed to land a curse on him that lasted for decades. And Harry... well, Lara has seen Harry in action. He saw through her papa's charade, in just one night. He killed a bunch of baddies in the Deeps, including summoning lava in Chicago. And then, when there was no way to survive, he saved them both. Lara was giving the sexuality her all... and Harry used her for sex, instead of succumbing. He took the full force of a Whamp, and channeled it into his willpower in an entirely non-erotic fashion. At this point, Lara is likely very cautious about the abilities of that family!
No, no, I am not arguing it is a bad idea! I LIKE the idea. I just think if it was implemented we would have had word leak thru Lara or Thomas by now. Earlier in the series this would have fit great.
I think those arm-bands were a unique item, probably stolen, traded... even bought (from Svartalves?). They could even have been White Council work (I'm sure at least a few wizards have gotten Whamp-whammied over the years, and served the White Court in return for some o' that sweet, sweet luvvin' (or, as noted, straight-up theft)).I don't have my copy of Blood Rites to hand (grrrr). I'd like to look at the descriptions of the protections on Lord Raith, vs the ones in the armbands. I don't remember them being similar (the glowy runes, etc).
I didn't say the Whamps developed it. They could have bought the tech. I doubt it is WC work - selling defenses against their own attack? Not smart. Svaltalfs? Could be. I think they are the best bet here
As far as appearance, I was suggesting the battery operated suit as a way of hiding Raith's magical black hole. If the suit lights up, the observer thinks his suit is absorbing the power. Otherwise it raises the question of "who did he make a deal with for this defense?". The suit glows on batteries, not magic.
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Swartalves would be a good bet they are suckers for physical beauty but paranoid to a degree that they call Gary “justifiably precautious Gary” that allows the best of both worlds.
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Swartalves would be a good bet they are suckers for physical beauty but paranoid to a degree that they call Gary “justifiably precautious Gary” that allows the best of both worlds.
Well, i was thinking they are logical because Harry could walk around their compound/Molly's apartment without stuff blowing up from his Murphyonic field, so they likely know some magic negating/antimagic hardening tricks.
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I always figured the reason why Papa Raith didn't kill Thomas was that he was unable to perform his "kiss of death," or if he could still perform it, it would take too much energy weakening him in the long run. Papa Raith always used this ability to kill off his other sons, and it would look strange that Thomas was killed in another way. The rest of the White Court would see this as something changed with Papa Raith, which could then lead to him losing power.
Thomas used my favorite technique for staying out of harms way. Look dumb and act stupid.
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Thomas used my favorite technique for staying out of harms way. Look dumb and act stupid.
papa Raith wanted Thomas to have a politically useful death “how dare you kill my beloved only son and heir.” Only Thomas wouldn’t cooperate.
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Maybe, but he is portrayed as a drunk and a party guy. Other then the fact that he was good looking, rich and and had hot women, he seemed to be a lot like me. ;)
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No, no, I am not arguing it is a bad idea! I LIKE the idea. I just think if it was implemented we would have had word leak thru Lara or Thomas by now. Earlier in the series this would have fit great.
I think there are a *LOT* of "little details" of this sort, that Jim has in his mind as he writes, that don't get revealed in a "timely" way.
He loves to leave "easter eggs" strewn around. Some are more consequential than others.
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I didn't say the Whamps developed it. They could have bought the tech. I doubt it is WC work - selling defenses against their own attack? Not smart. Svaltalfs? Could be. I think they are the best bet here
I don't think they "bought the tech" -- they bought the item: 1 set of armbands, magical-warding.
The "tech" is useless to them, because very few (if any!) Whamp magicians are strong enough to enchant such magic items.
I doubt the White Council would have "officially" transacted with the Whamps to provide such an item. But one wizard selling "under the table"? Very possible IMO. Stolen from a WC wizard? Another good possibility. Commanded from a WC wizard whose will was Whamp-subverted? Another possibility. LOTS of ways for it to be "White Council work."
But although it "could have been" White Council, I think it was Dark Elves:
Swartalves would be a good bet ...
Well, i was thinking they are logical because Harry could walk around their compound/Molly's apartment without stuff blowing up from his Murphyonic field, so they likely know some magic negating/antimagic hardening tricks.
There's Molly's apartment, yes... but also:
The Raith Deeps! It had that cheesyclassy mood-lighting going on. Survived the (repeated?) Entropy-Rituals, survived Harry's fight with Papa Raith, and even IIRC survived Harry&Carlos' duel with the Whamps. High emotions, lots of un-warded magic being flung about... should have blown all lighting. I'm pretty sure the Raith Deeps' lighting was Svartalven work. And, that being the case, the warding arm-bands seem likely Svartalven, too.
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I don't think they "bought the tech" -- they bought the item: 1 set of armbands, magical-warding.
The "tech" is useless to them, because very few (if any!) Whamp magicians are strong enough to enchant such magic items.
OK, that is more where i was going, they bough the item. Like when a company says they are investing in new technology for their assembly line, they are not buying the engineering blueprints and chip specs, they are getting stuff installed.
I doubt the White Council would have "officially" transacted with the Whamps to provide such an item. But one wizard selling "under the table"? Very possible IMO. Stolen from a WC wizard? Another good possibility. Commanded from a WC wizard whose will was Whamp-subverted? Another possibility. LOTS of ways for it to be "White Council work."
Selling? No way. The wizard weakens himself. Whamp subverted? seems unlikely. He'd have to have it already. Stolen? I gotta think stuff like that is held VERY securely, but this one could be. But I am thinking non-Council.
There's Molly's apartment, yes... but also:
The Raith Deeps! It had that cheesyclassy mood-lighting going on. Survived the (repeated?) Entropy-Rituals, survived Harry's fight with Papa Raith, and even IIRC survived Harry&Carlos' duel with the Whamps. High emotions, lots of un-warded magic being flung about... should have blown all lighting. I'm pretty sure the Raith Deeps' lighting was Svartalven work. And, that being the case, the warding arm-bands seem likely Svartalven, too.
I think the Deeps were likely simple mortal work. The Whamps are not envisioning magical duels happening much. Harry is not blowing up streetlamps and making cars freeze in place every time he walks near one. Cheesy lighting? Mortals can't do that? Ever hear of Las Vegas?
Rituals cast by non-wizards may not have the short-out-the-electronics aura that wizards do. Molly has a cell phone, doesn't she? Up to her ear! So Mantles don't blow things. And a cell phone has far more elaborate circuitry than wiring. Mac has fans and lights in the pub, and he caters to multiple wizards, not Harry level, usually, but there for HOURS every day. Where Harry LIVED, even continual low level emissions can toast stuff. But he didn't blow up his office. Or the others in the building.
Svaltalf work is gonna be high - and the bill may not be in dollars. Heck, the Whamps can seduce a couple of electricians or stagehands to rig this all up simple.
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The Murphyonic Fiels is a plot device used make the lives of Mortal wizards(including and especially Harry) have more difficult lives. Mainly it restricts their use of tech and gives their enemies an advantage.
Because they aren't "mortal practitioners" Molly can a use cell phone where she couldn't before becoming the Lady, Nic and his cronies can use electronic communication, the Redcap could chase down the Water Beetle on a jet-ski and Vadderung can run a multinational security corporation. Think of how Harry's life as WK would be improved with a company car outfitted as well as the presidential limo. Every wizard should have the Swartalves on speed dial for an air-conditioned and lighted home remodel.
Overanalyzing any book or movie involving magic or supertech will reveal inconsistencies. Just suspend your belief for the world background. Most authors and screenwriters don't think like pro gamers when they set up their worlds.
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Selling? No way. The wizard weakens himself.
I envision a wizard who's almost entirely self-centered; maybe not using "black magic" but one who doesn't much care about other wizards, or "weakening" them. They could easily have built in personal safeguards, so they specifically weren't weakened... embroider the armbands with gold thread for the runes, and use the same gold thread in one of their own offensive focus-items, enchanted to bypass the defenses of the arm-bands.
Also, smart wizards know how to bypass those defenses. Someone shows up sporting the armbands you made? Don't even try to cast a spell on THEM, just forzare them a faceful of keys, or One Woman Rave them into utter confusion then gut-stab them, or whatever... ;-)
... Whamp subverted? seems unlikely ...
Seems entirely-likely to me, but YMMV.
Consider, though: Inari Raith -- with zero predatory experience -- almost got Harry. He feels that Whamps are an entirely-credible threat to him, and to wizards in general. Margaret LeFay (no pushover!) was seduced by one. The Blackstaff apparently feels an especially-deep hatred towards them, presumably having suffered some grievous wrong.
... Stolen? I gotta think stuff like that is held VERY securely, but this one could be ...
While I do think that Whamps could be an incredibly-potent uber-thief sort of security-penetrating expert, I was envisioning it in a more opportunistic fashion -- wizard is disabled? Swipe their stuff! Wizard in the field, but not fully "equipped" (wearing) all their gear? Swipe it while their back is turned! (I keep noticing Harry drop items in his duster pockets, and thinking "dude, a regular pickpocket could probably take that from you, and a magically-graceful-and-subtle one with a century of practice... you'd never spot it!")
I think the Deeps were likely simple mortal work ... Heck, the Whamps can seduce a couple of electricians or stagehands to rig this all up simple.
Harry was impressed at the system's durability in the face of his magic (I don't think "a couple of electricians or stagehands" could have produced that). Molly's (Svartalven-built) place was, IIRC, the only other place we've seen that had "Harry-resistant" lighting, the kind that is noted in the text & called-out as "this is impressive and unusual."
... The Whamps are not envisioning magical duels happening much ...
I expect the Whamps were planning for all manner of "unlikely" contingencies. I expect they considered White Council wizards as among the more-likely of those contingencies.
... Harry is not blowing up streetlamps and making cars freeze in place every time he walks near one ... Where Harry LIVED, even continual low level emissions can toast stuff. But he didn't blow up his office. Or the others in the building...
Yeah, Harry can walk by ordinary electrical stuff without hexing it; electronic stuff, not so much. He can't even carry a credit-card without wiping the mag-stripe on it. But he could walk into the precinct and not blow the lights; just not approach any computers.
My point, though, isn't the "ordinary circumstances."
Harry was afraid for his life; even worse, for his brother's life, and Murphy's (in the later incident, Carlos'; and hugely angry about the murdered women). And he was letting loose with his Kaboom magic. This is gonna blow the tech.
Your average "electrician or stagehand" simply cannot build a system that will survive being in the same area with an angry, magic-flinging Harry Dresden.
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Swartalves are experts at working underground, The Deeps would be a snap. They wouldn’t have to worry about a single point of access and egress.
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I envision a wizard who's almost entirely self-centered; maybe not using "black magic" but one who doesn't much care about other wizards, or "weakening" them. They could easily have built in personal safeguards, so they specifically weren't weakened... embroider the armbands with gold thread for the runes, and use the same gold thread in one of their own offensive focus-items, enchanted to bypass the defenses of the arm-bands.
Also, smart wizards know how to bypass those defenses.
still short sighted. Plus what if TWO wizards sell stuff? One sells a mail shirt, so to speak "I'll target the head" but Wizard B sells a helmet "I'll target the torso" - but the same Whamp buys BOTH....
(on subverted)
Seems entirely-likely to me, but YMMV.
Consider, though: Inari Raith -- with zero predatory experience -- almost got Harry. He feels that Whamps are an entirely-credible threat to him, and to wizards in general. Margaret LeFay (no pushover!) was seduced by one. The Blackstaff apparently feels an especially-deep hatred towards them, presumably having suffered some grievous wrong.
Yes, but I think they overwhelm the wizard, they cloud their minds with lust... and a clouded mind is not likely to do their best fabricating work. Pet wizard? could be. But a top notch? It's like where Harry says if Mab presses him too much he will obey - but she will get a obedient, but mediocre Knight, the one she does NOT want. Harry, given a little latitude and looser bond, is a finer weapon.
While I do think that Whamps could be an incredibly-potent uber-thief sort of security-penetrating expert, I was envisioning it in a more opportunistic fashion -- wizard is disabled? Swipe their stuff! Wizard in the field, but not fully "equipped" (wearing) all their gear? Swipe it while their back is turned! (I keep noticing Harry drop items in his duster pockets, and thinking "dude, a regular pickpocket could probably take that from you, and a magically-graceful-and-subtle one with a century of practice... you'd never spot it!")
I think that stuff is going to be massively spell-warded.
OK, Harry would never think of this. I doubt most wizards would. (I think Luccio would). But.... biometrics? The Warden swords are only special for THAT warden, right? Best reason Harry could not simply pick up, say, Wild Bill's at the battle. So it seems Luccio can restrict use somewhat - the sword in other hands is simply a sword. Picture... in my blasting rod, I drill a *TINY* hole in the hilt before I enchant it. Slip in a single hair, fill with epoxy, then a plug of sawdust mixed with epoxy, so it appears to be plain wood (or use a copper butt cap). Enchant it so it doesn't shoot unless it finds a similar hair within a foot. Doesn't see one, it backfires and blows up. Which also torches the hair.
Harry was impressed at the system's durability in the face of his magic (I don't think "a couple of electricians or stagehands" could have produced that). Molly's (Svartalven-built) place was, IIRC, the only other place we've seen that had "Harry-resistant" lighting, the kind that is noted in the text & called-out as "this is impressive and unusual."
Harry's been on TV. Seen a Broadway show's effects? those guys are not Eugene the Electrician on Main Street. I bet Tempest shielding could work great too (computer security anti-wiretap stuff, to prevent stuff leaking out. Should keep outside stuff out too) Again, like biometrics, Harry likely never heard of Tempest stuff.
I expect the Whamps were planning for all manner of "unlikely" contingencies. I expect they considered White Council wizards as among the more-likely of those contingencies.
occasional short-term ones, usually at a distance from the walls.
Yeah, Harry can walk by ordinary electrical stuff without hexing it; electronic stuff, not so much. He can't even carry a credit-card without wiping the mag-stripe on it. But he could walk into the precinct and not blow the lights; just not approach any computers.
My point, though, isn't the "ordinary circumstances."
Harry was afraid for his life; even worse, for his brother's life, and Murphy's (in the later incident, Carlos'; and hugely angry about the murdered women). And he was letting loose with his Kaboom magic. This is gonna blow the tech.
Your average "electrician or stagehand" simply cannot build a system that will survive being in the same area with an angry, magic-flinging Harry Dresden.
And lighting is much more electrical than electronic. So more resistant.
Actually, a dueling Dresden may be MORE safe for the electrical stuff. His Murphyonic field may be like a sprinkler head misting the area, but a dueling Harry is using a nozzle (Luccio uses a water jet cutting tool with her fire lance). Harry is focusing his magic.
Again, pro stagehands or TV guys are a lot ahead of the typical guy. Chicago may not be NYC, but it isn't Peoria either.
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Swartalves are experts at working underground, The Deeps would be a snap. They wouldn’t have to worry about a single point of access and egress.
Oh, I think Svaltalves could do it great. But what do they want for a fee? The bill may not be payable in cash. And do the Whamps trust the Svaltalves to not build in back door access for themselves? I think the Svartalves are likely among the most trustworthy supernaturals, but...
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The White Court can pay in lapdances, and the Swartalves are the most reliable of repeat customers.
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The Svaltalfs may want Favors, not Euros. Better to use a pro stagehand or techie you can give Benjamins than someone who holds a Favor on you
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... Better to use a pro stagehand or techie you can give Benjamins than someone who holds a Favor on you
I don't think they know how to do that (the pro stagehands & techies).
Tempest shielding won't work (I have used, & tech-supported SunMicro & other Tempest gear, years back). It protects against an EM-pulse & similar... but magic ISN'T an EM-pulse (if it were, it wouldn't be blocked by a magic circle). So a hex will slice right through Tempest gear (just the same as OTS consumer gear).
Unless the supernatural community has studied the details of Wizard-Hex vs. Tech (and how to Harden it), I don't think the knowledge exists. Maybe (maybe!) the Whamps have that info; maybe they made a concerted effort to study it over the past century, when the rise of electricity (and Wizards' effects on tech) came into focus. Maybe they have sets of schematics and plans, and can tell their mundane subcontractors, "I know this circuit is absurdly over-engineered, and grounded about 1000x more than is needed. Shut up, and do it this way anyhow. You know your profit-margin on this job is already more than double your usual, and I could always go to another contractor if you don't care to build it as specified."
But I doubt it.
I think the Svartalves have a corner on the market for this info. They are the elves of tech.
(It wouldn't surprise me if they had a secret program to sabotage any non-Svartelven efforts that direction)
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... Better to use a pro stagehand or techie you can give Benjamins than someone who holds a Favor on you
If you're a whamp, better still to pay in Hot Sex. Addict the key personnel, place controls in their minds, make them loyal to you. In fact, get the same controls on every worker you let into your Sekrit Hide0ut. Sure: pay in cash for the sake of "legal, above-board" appearances...
But ensure that everyone is doing their honest-to-God best, because you are their honest-to-god.
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If you're a whamp, better still to pay in Hot Sex. Addict the key personnel, place controls in their minds, make them loyal to you. In fact, get the same controls on every worker you let into your Sekrit Hide0ut. Sure: pay in cash for the sake of "legal, above-board" appearances...
But ensure that everyone is doing their honest-to-God best, because you are their honest-to-god.
No. No Whamp powers. If that sort of thing is ever detected, the blocks, etc. then people KNOW something is up. Simple cash can make it look like rich hedonists making their own Playboy Grotto. Don't use powers where just cash will work.
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No. No Whamp powers. If that sort of thing is ever detected, the blocks, etc. then people KNOW something is up. Simple cash can make it look like rich hedonists making their own Playboy Grotto. Don't use powers where just cash will work.
Non-supernaturals will never detect the whamp'ery (at most, it will seem like someone is obsessed with the controlling Whamp). DO pay cash, so it has all the signs & trappings of a mundane transaction; but with the Whamp'ery, the loyal electrician will always cover for their Whamp master, accept the blame, go "My bad, yes I'll pay the late taxes" (or go to jail, or whatever).
Supernaturals already know that the Whamps (like all other powers) like their privacy, and keep their secrets; they already know the Whamps are not just "rich hedonists." Supernaturals expect other supernaturals to use their powers to preserve their privacy.