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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: LostInTime on March 05, 2021, 05:16:16 PM
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Since Cold Days, Molly has displayed roughly one new magic skill per appearance. Not counting any air or cold based magic which presumably are inherent in her being the Winter Lady she has shown; In Skin Game, she magically healed Harry. In Peace Talks she enchanted an item to spec for Harry in a couple of hours, and she used communication magic to coordinate the deployment of Winter's troops. Throughout several appearances she's been able to move from location to location much faster than by physically travelling the distance between the two places. In The Good People she created matter from thin air and used temporal magic.
Molly is using magic far beyond her previous areas of competence. To say nothing of the major power bump from being the Winter Lady, her competence with magic is far outstripping her former master. Harry had better get some major magic skill in Twelve Months or I'm going to start losing interest in him. Sure, he's a knuckle-dragging bruiser. But in the company he's been keeping of late, that's no longer enough.
Any other instances of Molly using new magic skills that I'm missing?
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When she helped Harry give birth to Bonea, Molly was already Winter Lady, she also knows Harry's brain quite well from all the sparing the two of them did mentally. I wouldn't be shocked if Mab had tutored her on how to safely remove Bonea, knowing that Harry would never accept her being in his head and she didn't want to lose her Knight. Molly's magical skill has always been in the mind magic area in the first place so I don't think her helping Harry involved really new skills for her.
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Thought of another one, In Peace Talks, during the kraken attack, she was swimming with bull sharks. Aquamotion? I guess that's water magic. That would also be assuming those were Winter bull sharks, and if they were just natural bull sharks, animal control? Geez.
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She was always better at talking with mouse than Harry was.
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Except for the item enchantment, and the talking to bull sharks, all the other abilities come from Winter. Temporal magic has been used by the Ladies before, the moving from place to place faster than humans has been shown by Mab.
The healing of Harry in SG? She specializes in mind magic. Even before the mantle, Alfred told Harry to ask for her help. And Alfred only really knows Molly through Harry. It's not a new special ability.
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I mean to be fair being better then Harry at magic isn't exactly hard. I'm pretty sure literally every magic user in the series is better than Harry. Harry wins by coasting on his massive power.
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I mean to be fair being better then Harry at magic isn't exactly hard. I'm pretty sure literally every magic user in the series is better than Harry. Harry wins by coasting on his massive power.
I disagree because I do think that Harry is actually pretty good. Unlike others he's usually beaten half to death, and no time to do anything by the time he has to face an enemy.
That being said, yes he's not the most technical, and you're right about his massive power. It's kind of like a 5'0 100 pound martial arts expert taking on a 6'10, 300 pound animal who has no formal training but has been beating people's asses for 20 years. Skill is great but has it's limitations when facing overwhelming power.
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I disagree because I do think that Harry is actually pretty good. Unlike others he's usually beaten half to death, and no time to do anything by the time he has to face an enemy.
That being said, yes he's not the most technical, and you're right about his massive power. It's kind of like a 5'0 100 pound martial arts expert taking on a 6'10, 300 pound animal who has no formal training but has been beating people's asses for 20 years. Skill is great but has it's limitations when facing overwhelming power.
Except that forumghost's comment is about how everyone and their mother (Ramirez, Marcone, Molly etc) is outskilling Harry lately because he's been stagnating.
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Except that forumghost's comment is about how everyone and their mother (Ramirez, Marcone, Molly etc) is outskilling Harry lately because he's been stagnating.
Exactly. Harry being able to cast Burning Hands with a 9th level slot isn't exactly impressive when Carlos is casting Disintegrate as an at-will spell, and Marcone and his like, 4 years of magical training can cast Teleport.
Dresden needs to git gud.
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I've got a theory which I posted in the other thread that Molly is one of the few Wizards sensitive enough to the etherial that she can sense the childhood monsters, that Magiie has to face. The fact that she wrote the book on it is a big hint, as well as the ffact that her job as Winter Lady is to handle the Fae children.
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Except that forumghost's comment is about how everyone and their mother (Ramirez, Marcone, Molly etc) is outskilling Harry lately because he's been stagnating.
Harry's lack of skill comes from lack of training, he did get the basics from Justin, but he was declared a full wizard by sixteen. Eb had other worries for his future so his training consisted in teaching wizard morals, that furthering Harry's skills. Remember most wizards remain apprentices into their twenties. Part of it by his own admission is he was too busy with other things and was a bit lazy as a student, so Harry is or was behind and feels behind others in his skills. Actually it is a bit of false modesty on Harry's part, when he became master to Molly, since he had to teach her, he taught himself at the same time. Take veils, while he doesn't have the natural talent for them like Molly, he has worked on the skill where he will used them with regularity now, where in the past because of his lack of confidence he rarely did.
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Exactly. Harry being able to cast Burning Hands with a 9th level slot isn't exactly impressive when Carlos is casting Disintegrate as an at-will spell, and Marcone and his like, 4 years of magical training can cast Teleport.
Dresden needs to git gud.
How gud would you like him to be? He killed the Reds, root and branch. He used necromancy to bring a T-Rex to life. The White Council fears him so much they tried to cancel him. Mab thinks he could kill Molly if the need arose. He soloed a Titan. He can use Soul Fire and Winter Ice. He converted the Shadow of a Fallen. He built Little Chicago, has the baddest ass enchanted coat and distributes Angelic Swords. And when push came to shove he showed he could pawn Eb. So we down vote him because he can't draw inside the lines? :o ;D
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How gud would you like him to be?He killed the Reds, root and branch.
That wasn't a display of magical ability on his part. That was him piggybacking off the Red Courts own Ritual.
He used necromancy to bring a T-Rex to life.
Again, not a matter of Skill. Harry himself acknowledges that it was just a matter of having the juice to do it.
The White Council fears him so much they tried to cancel him.
The White Council fears him because of his Reputation, his Tendency to run with the Bad guys, and his propensity to make monumentally dumb decisions and somehow live past them.
Mab thinks he could kill Molly if the need arose.
So do I. Mostly because Molly would never expect it. You don't need to be skilled to suckerpunch a young woman that has been pining over you for a decade.
He soloed a Titan.
Looks at Mab, Titania, Odin, The Erlking, The Winter Lady, an Army of Fae, Two Knight of the Cross, several Senior Members of the White Council, The Archive, The Queen of the White Court, a Couple Valkyries, a Bigfoot, and a Knight of the Blackened Denarius
Right... "Solo"
He can use Soul Fire and Winter Ice.
Yeah, too bad he never does anything useful with it.
He converted the Shadow of a Fallen. He built Little Chicago, has the baddest ass enchanted coat and distributes Angelic Swords. And when push came to shove he showed he could pawn Eb. So we down vote him because he can't draw inside the lines? :o ;D
Of these, only Little Chicago is actually a testament to his magical skills, and that was used about twice ever, and only worked because someone else sneaked into his lab to grade his work for him.
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I think he is extremely good at some stuff and not as good in other things. That happens when you pick up things in practice when you need it.
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I think he is extremely good at some stuff and not as good in other things. That happens when you pick up things in practice when you need it.
It is also part of being a normal human being, none of us are good at everything.
That wasn't a display of magical ability on his part. That was him piggybacking off the Red Courts own Ritual.
Oh? He managed to figure out what he had to do and he did it. Wizard is derived from wise one, if I remember correctly. Wisdom comes from knowledge, knowledge comes from learning.. That give you magical ability. As Luke told the Mandalorian about Gegoo, " he is strong with the Force, but it means nothing without training.." I think you are confusing ability with talent, you are born with talent, but you have to be taught basic skills to develop ability.
Again, not a matter of Skill. Harry himself acknowledges that it was just a matter of having the juice to do it.
Yes, he had the juice to do it, but without the book, the knowledge and the basic skills, no amount of juice would have enabled him to do it.
So do I. Mostly because Molly would never expect it. You don't need to be skilled to suckerpunch a young woman that has been pining over you for a decade.
Suckerpunch or not, on Halloween, Molly is vulnerable... Also yeah, to figure out how to suckerpunch someone like Molly does take skill and knowledge.. People who are able to pull off a suckerpunch are often very clever even if the action is distasteful.
Looks at Mab, Titania, Odin, The Erlking, The Winter Lady, an Army of Fae, Two Knight of the Cross, several Senior Members of the White Council, The Archive, The Queen of the White Court, a Couple Valkyries, a Bigfoot, and a Knight of the Blackened Denarius
Right... "Solo"
Yup, he had lots of help, he acknowledges that, however in the end it was Harry, and Harry alone who performed the binding. Oh and back up a few steps, the original actions in the first place that made him Warden, then the presence of mind to take those Artifacts from then vault and store them away on Demonreach. All of the above took skill and knowledge on Harry's part, he has enough intelligence to ask questions when he needs to.
The White Council fears him because of his Reputation, his Tendency to run with the Bad guys, and his propensity to make monumentally dumb decisions and somehow live past them.
Dumb for whom? The Council fears him because he is the skunk at the garden party.. However their fear is ill placed, in spite of their many attacks on him until the end of Battle Field Harry remained loyal to them and their principles or tried to be.
Yeah, too bad he never does anything useful with it.
Do you think he would have been able to pull off what he did, becoming Warden of Demonreach without the aid of Soul Fire? Just because you don't see anything useful yet, that doesn't mean there won't be in the future.
Of these, only Little Chicago is actually a testament to his magical skills, and that was used about twice ever, and only worked because someone else sneaked into his lab to grade his work for him.
Really? How about the imagination to even attempt it in the first place?
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That wasn't a display of magical ability on his part. That was him piggybacking off the Red Courts own Ritual.
Again, not a matter of Skill. Harry himself acknowledges that it was just a matter of having the juice to do it.
The White Council fears him because of his Reputation, his Tendency to run with the Bad guys, and his propensity to make monumentally dumb decisions and somehow live past them.
So do I. Mostly because Molly would never expect it. You don't need to be skilled to suckerpunch a young woman that has been pining over you for a decade.
Looks at Mab, Titania, Odin, The Erlking, The Winter Lady, an Army of Fae, Two Knight of the Cross, several Senior Members of the White Council, The Archive, The Queen of the White Court, a Couple Valkyries, a Bigfoot, and a Knight of the Blackened Denarius
Right... "Solo"
Yeah, too bad he never does anything useful with it.
Of these, only Little Chicago is actually a testament to his magical skills, and that was used about twice ever, and only worked because someone else sneaked into his lab to grade his work for him.
Jim said that Harry is one of the best wizards in the world at creating magical objects. He's Senior Council member good at it... So when it comes to making things like his shield bracelet, blasting rod, rings, and Little Chicago, he's doing things most wizards can't. So when it comes to that area of magic, he is world class.
Those things take time, and money to create, and maintain. Harry has been seriously busy for years... Now that he's got a Castle, and said it's time he started practicing again, I expect some cool shit in future books.
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I mean if by seriously busy you mean "literally spent 18 months on an Island practicing parkour" then his schedule has been pretty tight, yeah.
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Jim said that Harry is one of the best wizards in the world at creating magical objects. He's Senior Council member good at it... So when it comes to making things like his shield bracelet, blasting rod, rings, and Little Chicago, he's doing things most wizards can't. So when it comes to that area of magic, he is world class.
Those things take time, and money to create, and maintain. Harry has been seriously busy for years... Now that he's got a Castle, and said it's time he started practicing again, I expect some cool shit in future books.
Source?
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Source?
Bob is impressed. About the others I have no idea.“It looks…” He made a sound like someone idly sucking a breath through his teeth. “Hey, it looks not bad, Harry. You’ve got a gift for this kind of work. That model of the museum really altered the flow around the stadium into something mostly accurate, speaking thaumaturgically.”
I mean if by seriously busy you mean "literally spent 18 months on an Island practicing parkour" then his schedule has been pretty tight, yeah.
And you know that how? For all we know he spent the eighteen months taking a Masters level class in Checkers. We only know what Jim tells us. In the last two books he seems to have upped his game on the capabilities of the Prison. And he seems to have figured out the Holy weapons, in as much as that is possible. In the run up to Skin Game Mab kept him isolated, he didn't have Bob, Alfred isn't a font of wisdom, rather he is a prison guard, and he still had the headache maker in his head.
I will also point out that the people he could ask for help have been blowing him off pretty consistently over the course of the books.
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Source?
I've watched so many jim Q&A's over the years. I've been searching the WoJ site but don't even know what "word" to look for. I'm 90% positive he did say it in one of his video's but I don't know which one. Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm sorry if I am.
This doesn't have to do what I said above, but does show how dangerous dresden is
From 2010 when Harry was less bad ass... Jim: Anyway, the point is that Dresden might well be one of the more dangerous opponents you could find in the White Council–in a one on one fight
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I've watched so many jim Q&A's over the years. I've been searching the WoJ site but don't even know what "word" to look for. I'm 90% positive he did say it in one of his video's but I don't know which one. Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm sorry if I am.
This doesn't have to do what I said above, but does show how dangerous dresden is
From 2010 when Harry was less bad ass... Jim: Anyway, the point is that Dresden might well be one of the more dangerous opponents you could find in the White Council–in a one on one fight
Ah, I know the feeling.
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I mean if by seriously busy you mean "literally spent 18 months on an Island practicing parkour" then his schedule has been pretty tight, yeah.
He was also learning the defenses of the island which were pretty complicated. He didn't have any tools or raw materials to make anything, plus he had something growing in his head that caused great pain and make him pass out frequently.
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Jim said that Harry is one of the best wizards in the world at creating magical objects. He's Senior Council member good at it... So when it comes to making things like his shield bracelet, blasting rod, rings, and Little Chicago, he's doing things most wizards can't. So when it comes to that area of magic, he is world class.
Those things take time, and money to create, and maintain. Harry has been seriously busy for years... Now that he's got a Castle, and said it's time he started practicing again, I expect some cool shit in future books.
Found it by accident, it's about forty two minutes into the Black Gate interview in 2018. Though I'm going to assume Jim was talking about for his age group considering Eb has better versions of Harry's staff and coat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHJU5NwFiXk
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Harry had better get some major magic skill in Twelve Months or I'm going to start losing interest in him.
yes, this has actually started to irk me.. he's falling too far behind the curve now. Though it also makes it easier for Jim to have Harry pull surprises out of his hat when the time comes I suppose.
Found it by accident, it's about forty two minutes into the Black Gate interview in 2018. Though I'm going to assume Jim was talking about for his age group considering Eb has better versions of Harry's staff and coat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHJU5NwFiXk
I think he meant some of the more offbeat things, his overall flexibility and design. Everyone has a staff.. and we don't know how long it took Eb to master making magic armor. But for instance, the ruby(?) In TC Molly uses at DR, the bear belt, LC all these things have little similarity but a great deal of power in them, if not always foresight. An I think we can add most of butters arsenal too, since he based it all on Harry's work in artificing.
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Harry had better get some major magic skill in Twelve Months or I'm going to start losing interest in him.
yes, this has actually started to irk me.. he's falling too far behind the curve now. Though it also makes it easier for Jim to have Harry pull surprises out of his hat when the time comes I suppose.
Is he really? He just managed to take down a Titian, figure out how to use the Spear of Destiny to his advantage and a bunch of other assorted things, including outsmarting his grandfather by having Molly craft that double of himself.. He may not be the strongest in some things, but he is fairly strong in most things, as in he manages to hold his own... Which is a lot more than can be said for other wizards that are strong in one thing and not much else. Consider how easily the Wardens were taken down by the Black Court..
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Is he really? He just managed to take down a Titian, figure out how to use the Spear of Destiny to his advantage and a bunch of other assorted things, including outsmarting his grandfather by having Molly craft that double of himself.. He may not be the strongest in some things, but he is fairly strong in most things, as in he manages to hold his own... Which is a lot more than can be said for other wizards that are strong in one thing and not much else. Consider how easily the Wardens were taken down by the Black Court..
none of those things are reliant on magical skills. He took down the Titan on willpower, standing on the coat tails of greater beings who wore her down and couldn't have done it at all without DR. He outsmarted his grandfather, with Molly's magical trinket he couldn't make himself. Carlos, who was still an apprentice for half the series can break things down to a molecule without it costing him any energy... And Harry can what? Throw more power into his spell or shield and pray it's enough? And let's not get started on Marcone. Yes, Harry has fallen behind the curve.
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none of those things are reliant on magical skills. He took down the Titan on willpower, standing on the coat tails of greater beings who wore her down and couldn't have done it at all without DR. He outsmarted his grandfather, with Molly's magical trinket he couldn't make himself. Carlos, who was still an apprentice for half the series can break things down to a molecule without it costing him any energy... And Harry can what? Throw more power into his spell or shield and pray it's enough? And let's not get started on Marcone. Yes, Harry has fallen behind the curve.
He couldn't make it or he didn't have the time? Will power? Yeah, that is the juice that sets Harry apart. Marcone doesn't know jack squat, it is Namshiel that has the knowledge and he is a freaking fallen angel, take him away and Marcone is just a very smart vanilla mortal. You are leaving out the part about how Harry became Warden of Demonreach in the first place. Had he been second rate he wouldn't have survived the confrontation with Alfred, or figured out how to pull it off. Well, Carlos wasn't much of a match for Mavra and company, was he? Not even close and he couldn't save his fellow wardens.. So who's behind the curve exactly?
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Couldn't probably. But doing it in such short time is also skill. Everything else you've mentioned still isn't skill. He's a big magical thug still mostly.
And as for Marcone, Harry had a fallen angel for years, nobodies fault but his own he didn't avail himself of her knowledge base.
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Couldn't probably. But doing it in such short time is also skill. Everything else you've mentioned still isn't skill. He's a big magical thug still mostly.
And as for Marcone, Harry had a fallen angel for years, nobodies fault but his own he didn't avail himself of her knowledge base.
Harry did avail himself to a lot of Lasciel's knowledge, that is how he was able to translate Kemmler's book among other things. Harry is more than a magical thug, if he were, he would have handled Lara on Demonreach a lot differently.
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Couldn't probably. But doing it in such short time is also skill. Everything else you've mentioned still isn't skill. He's a big magical thug still mostly.
And as for Marcone, Harry had a fallen angel for years, nobodies fault but his own he didn't avail himself of her knowledge base.
We must be reading different books. In the books I read gaining knowledge from the fallen is a dangerous thing, and Lasciel was known as a deceiver. He beat her and converted her shadow. If the book needed a gifted watchmaker it would have one, but what it needs is a gifted thug, which is what it has.
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He couldn't make it or he didn't have the time? Will power? Yeah, that is the juice that sets Harry apart. Marcone doesn't know jack squat, it is Namshiel that has the knowledge and he is a freaking fallen angel, take him away and Marcone is just a very smart vanilla mortal. You are leaving out the part about how Harry became Warden of Demonreach in the first place. Had he been second rate he wouldn't have survived the confrontation with Alfred, or figured out how to pull it off. Well, Carlos wasn't much of a match for Mavra and company, was he? Not even close and he couldn't save his fellow wardens.. So who's behind the curve exactly?
So I take it you're just ignoring Harry saying that it's Marcone casting those spells after seeing him in action?
Harry did avail himself to a lot of Lasciel's knowledge, that is how he was able to translate Kemmler's book among other things. Harry is more than a magical thug, if he were, he would have handled Lara on Demonreach a lot differently.
There's a difference between reluctantly using things when pushed against the wall and going all in. Harry's not exactly beating senior council members in their specialties like she offered now is he? Marcone on the other hand by all indications has taken up that offer of tutelage and shot right past Harry in skill.
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It is almost like one of them is a gangster with very limited restrictions (moral and otherwise) and the other is trying to be a decent human being and is concerned about his soul.
At least to me it seems that Harry definitely took the wise choice between him and Marcone.
What do you think he should have been doing on those months when he was trapped on the island that he did not do? And how did Man get him to prepare for running am obstacle course without him knowing?
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It is almost like one of them is a gangster with very limited restrictions (moral and otherwise) and the other is trying to be a decent human being and is concerned about his soul.
At least to me it seems that Harry definitely took the wise choice between him and Marcone.
What do you think he should have been doing on those months when he was trapped on the island that he did not do? And how did Man get him to prepare for running am obstacle course without him knowing?
Oh to be sure there will be consequences for Marcone going all-in on the denarian train (there might already be depending on if the scene with civilians and the castle was a façade or not).
I mean, Harry kicks himself for not prepping properly in Skin Game and not even making a shield bracelet, that's one easy example.
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Harry did avail himself to a lot of Lasciel's knowledge, that is how he was able to translate Kemmler's book among other things. Harry is more than a magical thug, if he were, he would have handled Lara on Demonreach a lot differently.
handle Lara on... What? You mean how he set up a classic ambush situation where he had the edge and basically brute forces his victory? That was no next level magic. Just decent planning.
We must be reading different books
nope, just entirely different subjects. I'm only talking magical skills, not good vs evil
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I would say something pithy, if I had any idea where good and evil appeared in the conversation.
On Harry's time on Demonreach from the end of Cold Days.I’d spent the last year acquainting myself with the island’s secrets, with the defenses that I hadn’t even known existed—defenses that could be activated only by the Warden. If the Walker tried that play again, I could shut him down single-handed. Even Mab, as powerful as she was, would be well-advised to be cautious if she decided to start trouble on Demonreach’s soil.
Butcher, Jim. Skin Game: A Novel of the Dresden Files (p. 6). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
My brother and I had built the Whatsup Dock down at the shore at one of Demonreach’s three little beaches, the one nearest the opening in the stone reefs surrounding the island.
Butcher, Jim. Skin Game: A Novel of the Dresden Files (p. 7). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
Now, the wooden skull was covered in neat, if crowded, inscriptions of runes and sigils much like those on my staff. “Four months it took me to make this,” I said, and held it out to Butters.
Butcher, Jim. Skin Game: A Novel of the Dresden Files (p. 88). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
docked I hopped over the rail and onto the pier with a large duffel bag in one hand and my new wizard’s staff in the other.
Butcher, Jim. Skin Game: A Novel of the Dresden Files (p. 13). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
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Found it by accident, it's about forty two minutes into the Black Gate interview in 2018. Though I'm going to assume Jim was talking about for his age group considering Eb has better versions of Harry's staff and coat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHJU5NwFiXk
Hey thank you for linking!
I think some of the other readers on the topic should go and watch this and jump to the 42 minute mark. I do believe Jim is pointing out that in some areas of magic, Harry is a badass. He is dangerous, and skilled. Jim put it really well. Some forms of martial arts don't fit certain people. Harry is very very good at some forms of magic, and not so good in others.
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Couldn't probably. But doing it in such short time is also skill. Everything else you've mentioned still isn't skill. He's a big magical thug still mostly.
And as for Marcone, Harry had a fallen angel for years, nobodies fault but his own he didn't avail himself of her knowledge base.
Major difference here. People who fully take up a Coin basically get built in super powers. Nicodemus can fly for example. His daughter would transform into a someone with long razor tentacles that came out of her head. The Coin Marcone took up gives the user the power of a wizard, a wizard with Fallen knowledge... Besides Drakul what wizard have we seen doing what Marcone was doing? I can't think of a single one. Marcone isn't just a quick learner. He's doing magic that wizards who are hundreds of years old aren't able to do.
"His gadgets he builds are second to none in the wizard world, even though he's a punk kid" - Jim
Jim did a pretty good job talking about it. Harry is a heavy hitter with direct magic. It's what he's suited for, and he should direct his focus on that. Strong will, heavy hitter, and great at building magical objects.
I understand the frustration with Dresden and his magic, but I kind of see why Jim is doing it I think. He doesn't want Dresden to be Superman. If Harry can just out magic everyone, he's too powerful. Jim wants Harry to have to fight, and depend on others, and get lucky sometimes. He wants Harry to just be strong enough to barely survive.
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handle Lara on... What? You mean how he set up a classic ambush situation where he had the edge and basically brute forces his victory? That was no next level magic. Just decent planning.
Decent planning? Well, that's magic as well in it's way. Brute force? It is Lara who was going for a
all out frontal attack relying on her vamp super strength and speed. Harry merely turned the ground under her feet, if I remember correctly to quick sand and buried her up to her neck so she wouldn't harm anyone and would listen to reason, he did the same with her Valkyrie back up.
Major difference here. People who fully take up a Coin basically get built in super powers. Nicodemus can fly for example. His daughter would transform into a someone with long razor tentacles that came out of her head. The Coin Marcone took up gives the user the power of a wizard, a wizard with Fallen knowledge... Besides Drakul what wizard have we seen doing what Marcone was doing? I can't think of a single one. Marcone isn't just a quick learner. He's doing magic that wizards who are hundreds of years old aren't able to do.
Exactly, and that was the temptation of the coin for Marcone, he's wanted the piece of the magical action since Harry blew the doors off of one of his establishments back in I believe it was Fool Moon. He's had to do it through others, but now with the coin, he can do it for himself.
So I take it you're just ignoring Harry saying that it's Marcone casting those spells after seeing him in action?
That was Namshiel not Marcone.. Before he took up Namshiel's coin Marcone never so much as drew a magic circle, something Butters was able to do back in Dead Beat.
There's a difference between reluctantly using things when pushed against the wall and going all in. Harry's not exactly beating senior council members in their specialties like she offered now is he? Marcone on the other hand by all indications has taken up that offer of tutelage and shot right past Harry in skill.
You think he is being taught? Or is he being used? There is a difference you know. Harry teased him a bit about it as well. Consider, what if it was Harry and not Marcone that took up Namshiel's coin? Then you'd have something truly terrifying. There is a reason why certain books on magic were forbidden to Harry, the Council knew he had to juice to pull off what was in them.
I think some of the other readers on the topic should go and watch this and jump to the 42 minute mark. I do believe Jim is pointing out that in some areas of magic, Harry is a badass. He is dangerous, and skilled. Jim put it really well. Some forms of martial arts don't fit certain people. Harry is very very good at some forms of magic, and not so good in others.
Exactly, and what Harry is good at, he is indeed very good... And he is still learning, he has no natural ability at veils like Molly, however he has worked at it, does a decent one now, and uses it, something he never did much before.
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handle Lara on... What? You mean how he set up a classic ambush situation where he had the edge and basically brute forces his victory? That was no next level magic.
He could have just froze her into a block of ice, and shattered her. He's done it before. What next level magic would you want to see him use? He can vaporize someone with fire, freeze them solid with ice, can send them flying with wind.
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He could have just froze her into a block of ice, and shattered her. He's done it before. What next level magic would you want to see him use? He can vaporize someone with fire, freeze them solid with ice, can send them flying with wind.
That indeed would have been brute force thuggish behavior.. ::)
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He could have just froze her into a block of ice, and shattered her. He's done it before. What next level magic would you want to see him use? He can vaporize someone with fire, freeze them solid with ice, can send them flying with wind.
well considering anyone who knows a little about sanctum invocations can do what he did.... Teleport behind her and knock her out? Simple, easy, effective AND actually involving advanced magic unlike most everything that's been argued for Harry not being behind the curve when showcasing that was likely entirely intentional on Jim's part. Harry's fallen behind and multiple allusions were made to that effect especially around the time of Carlos and Marcones respective scenes.
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well considering anyone who knows a little about sanctum invocations can do what he did.... Teleport behind her and knock her out? Simple, easy, effective AND actually involving advanced magic unlike most everything that's been argued for Harry not being behind the curve when showcasing that was likely entirely intentional on Jim's part. Harry's fallen behind and multiple allusions were made to that effect especially around the time of Carlos and Marcones respective scenes.
So far in this series only Drakul and Namshiel/Marcone have shown up with that short range teleport ability. It's pretty high level stuff and Harry was prevented from learning it by the Council for his and their safety I suspect.
Still I do see one area where Harry is behind other wizards his age. He is simply not as skilled at reducing the energy costs of magic. Some of that may be just innate talent and some may just be learning over time. His exceptional strength(and lately the mantle) might be working against him here. Plus, as Eb pointed out in their duel, he's learning that a full power punch may not always be the best strategy.
And you need to cut some slack for dramatic situations here. It would be all kinds of disappointing if the hero walked away from the climatic final fight barely needing a shower and change of clothes. Jim has to keep the books exciting.
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He could have just froze her into a block of ice, and shattered her. He's done it before. What next level magic would you want to see him use? He can vaporize someone with fire, freeze them solid with ice, can send them flying with wind.
To the best of my recollection he's never killed anything remotely human with magic, up until Battle Ground. He ended the fight on Demonreach in the best way possible possible. Killing Lara, given that Mab is trying to set up an alliance, would have been counter productive. The idea was to end it with no violence.
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Still I do see one area where Harry is behind other wizards his age. He is simply not as skilled at reducing the energy costs of magic. Some of that may be just innate talent and some may just be learning over time. His exceptional strength(and lately the mantle) might be working against him here. Plus, as Eb pointed out in their duel, he's learning that a full power punch may not always be the best strategy.
I think "pacing" is something that comes with maturity. What Eb points out to him is an example of that, also something Justin most likely never taught during Harry's apprenticeship.
well considering anyone who knows a little about sanctum invocations can do what he did.... Teleport behind her and knock her out? Simple, easy, effective AND actually involving advanced magic unlike most everything that's been argued for Harry not being behind the curve when showcasing that was likely entirely intentional on Jim's part. Harry's fallen behind and multiple allusions were made to that effect especially around the time of Carlos and Marcones respective scenes.
So far we've seen only Marcone/Namshiel do that, and Namshiel is a fallen angel and who knows, may have even invented it. Harry was interested, says he was but was forbidden access to the books on it in the Council Library. He also says that it is mainly a technique that takes years to learn, from forty to as many as a hundred years, and only by the best wizards. I think though that there is a reason Jim outlined all of that, Harry is going to be working on that very skill for the next couple of books.
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well considering anyone who knows a little about sanctum invocations can do what he did.... Teleport behind her and knock her out? Simple, easy, effective AND actually involving advanced magic unlike most everything that's been argued for Harry not being behind the curve when showcasing that was likely entirely intentional on Jim's part. Harry's fallen behind and multiple allusions were made to that effect especially around the time of Carlos and Marcones respective scenes.
Who besides Drakul, and someone with a Coin actually use teleportation? I think that using it is beyond advanced magic. Is it possible with planning, and preparation? Probably but in the heat of combat? Doubtful. Eb is a seriously talented wizard and didn't display it in PT, or BG when it would have helped him a lot.
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All of this discussion makes me think Harry's true strength is the combination of his high voltage and his burgeoning ability to figure out the long game and plan for that. Lately he's been growing in figuring things out ahead of time, and his magical growth has slowed. He's still getting power ups through magical item acquisition, but he's been leaning more on using his power effectively rather than solely on brute force. I believe these 2 facets coming together is what people feared and now see happening.
That being said, I'd love to see Harry go to school with RiverShoulders or spend time in Valhalla South with Vadderung and get a taste of the learning Merlin got.
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Off the top of my head Mab and Odin, though Odin's wasn't a personal teleport, but opening a way to a specific spot.. I think it's the same principle in action. From the prep spells Marcone cast I surmise he was jiggering with where the resonance of the NM met up with the material world, as he could only move to one of the spots he prepped. I don't actually think Drakul teleported though, didn't river boulders intercept him mid move or something? That's closer to an enhanced version of what the guy in GS did as apposed to true teleportation. Mab might have done the same thing.. so we actually have only seen teleportation principles in effect twice, and I'd point out Lea didn't seem capable herself of making that portal, she had to get Odin to set it up. Other than that... Perhaps cowl and his specific 'ways' to the mildewy realm.
I don't think teleportation is beyond Eb, just not his specialty, moving energy.