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Messages - Mira

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6841
DF Reference Collection / Re: A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
« on: December 12, 2011, 02:13:57 PM »


  I do not recall any whispering in Harry's head in Turn Coat.  The last whisper Harry hears from Lash comes at the end of White Night, after supposedly Lash was dead.. That is when he dug up the coin and gave it to Father Forthill.  The coin was rejected, end story, because if you go on that theory, Sanya should also still be under the influence etc, because he actually took up the coin and worked under the influence till he rejected it and became a Holy Knight.  We have the WOJ that Harry changed Lasciel's shadow, she became Lash.. So she was no longer there to take over in Turn Coat, the shadow had been changed and the coin rejected. 

I find it troubling that a shadow of the Fallen could turn up on Holy ground to begin with, I thought that was impossible.  People like to point to Lasciel's shadow, but when she was there before it was in Harry's head, not independent.  If the coin was close by in protected so no one could get to it, I think it is possible that Lasciel still could project herself, especially since Harry had been in contact with her before.  Remember her shadow became Sheila and then took up residence in Harry's head while still buried and in the circle that Harry tried to shut her up in. 

Now one has to ask the question, if that was indeed a projection of Lasciel whispering to Harry in Changes, why did she push for his suicide rather than try to get him to take up the coin?  Harry was desperate enough to become Winter Knight, was he also desperate enough to trade his soul to save little Maggie?  If so, why not offer?  Or was Lasciel rejecting Harry now as a host, going instead for revenge because she was so soundly rejected.

6842
DF Reference Collection / Re: A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
« on: December 11, 2011, 01:03:47 PM »
Quote

That doesn't mean that Nicodemus/Anduriel would know about Lasciel's revenge plot against Harry.  At the end of SmF, Harry told Nicodemus, "Lasciel's shadow doesn't live here anymore."  We find out later that Harry was wrong about this, but it was what Harry believed at the time, and I'm quite sure Nicodemus was able to note Harry's sincerity.  I think it's pretty likely that if Harry actually had found a way to permanently remove Lasciel's shadow, that would have the effect of breaking his connection to Lasciel's coin, possibly by severing the principle of contagion permitting Lasciel's whispering communication.  If Nicodemus compromised Church security (...again...) and stole the coin, Lasciel may well have decided not to tell Nicodemus that her line of communication with Harry was back open--we're told that Lasciel and Anduriel generally don't work together.

  Harry was right, Lasciel's shadow didn't live in his head anymore, she had become "Lash."  She had changed, and even if she was still there, at that moment she was still gravely wounded..

6843
DF Reference Collection / Re: A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
« on: December 07, 2011, 05:27:03 PM »
Quote from: ebliss1 on December 07, 2011, 02:01:20 PM
Depriving Heaven is a great motivation, but wouldn't it be better in the long run for her side to turn Dresden? The delicious pain from having him lose everything he holds dear, from constantly forcing him into having to choose between bad and worse, and of him having to watch helplessly as he slides further and further away from what make him Harry is a far better punishment. It'd be like Vader Syndrome, in reverse.
Except she didn't succeed, Harry dug up the coin and had Father Forthill take it away.  Harry resisted the shadow and rejected the coin successfully, we have the word of Uriel on that.  That is why he was gifted with Soul Fire.  There was a female voice sometimes in
Storm Front, Harry thought it was his mother.

6844
DF Reference Collection / Re: A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
« on: December 07, 2011, 01:51:07 PM »
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To me, if Lasciel were really behind those voices, she would want to turn the knife in his belly for decades at least and really make those decades absolute torture for him for having the gall to think he could not only defy, but in a way defeat, one of the witnesses to Creation itself. Dresden is a wizard, and with their enhanced lifespans, she could stretch that torture out for centuries if she did it right. Nicodemus was hesitant to give Lasciel to Dresden, not only because she didn't always follow his lead, but because she was at least powerful enough to oppose him if she so chose. That would put her probably in the top 5 of the most powerful Fallen. With great power usually comes great ego, and for an affront to her like what Dresden did, the only viable solution for her would be a very long period of very awful torture. Not a few whispers of despair to convince him to kill himself a few short years of relative peace afterward. Actually, given that the words usually galvanized Harry into taking necessary actions, it almost seems like the work of Lash, taking on the role of that drill sergeant/high school football coach who likes to call people maggots and worthless and weak as motivation to prove him wrong.

I have to disagree, if that shadow was Lasciel goading Harry to suicide, while she didn't prolong his torture, she did twist the knife in the most painful way.  Knowing Harry as she does, through Lash, and just knowing her subjects, she understands Harry's over active sense of thinking he is responsible for everything, his quickness to assume guilt where none exists, though he dances with the darkside his desire to avoid it..  There is nothing she could do to him that would cause greater pain than to say, "and it is all your fault.."  Accomplish two things or maybe three depending on how you look at it.  1] Cause great pain and suffering for Harry, to the point where he wishes to end his life.  I do not buy it was just to avoid becoming Mab's monster, but to punish himself for what went down.  We have evidence of that in GS. 2] To rid the Denarians of a very powerful foe, revenge also may be a factor. 3] To deprive Heaven of a soldier in the up and coming battle.

6845
DF Reference Collection / Re: A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
« on: December 07, 2011, 05:32:53 AM »
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You don't treat Bob's reaction at the end of SmF - directly warning Harry that Uriel is not a nice guy - as relevant information, then ?

  Uriel isn't evil, but he is an archangel, powerful beyond comprehension if he chose to use it.  Bob was merely warning Harry of that fact, you might say like Michael warning him about Mr Ferro.. 

6846
DF Reference Collection / Re: [GS Spoilers] The truth about Fitz (seriously, it's spoilerific) (fresh from DC)
« on: September 16, 2011, 06:39:03 AM »
Quote from: jeno on September 15, 2011, 10:28:45 PM
Wait.

So what's pure speculation and what's WOJ?

If something is WOJ, when and where did it happen? Who can confirm?

Word of Jim, something he said at a book signing or some other gig..  Most place that above what he wrote in his novels, some of us do not..  Not always but sometimes WOJ seems to contradict what he was getting at at the time he wrote the book.  There are those where who  keep all WOJ on record. and you can find most things that you are looking for.  Then there is the stuff that claims to be WOJ but turns out are made up out of whole cloth, urban myth, yet taken as gospel over what was written in the books.. That has lead to some really hard feelings between the what is written in the books verses WOJ crowd, until someone comes clean and says that Jim never said this or that.. Apparently Fitz is one of those hotly debated subjects.

6847
DF Reference Collection / Re: [GS Spoilers] The truth about Fitz (seriously, it's spoilerific) (fresh from DC)
« on: September 14, 2011, 04:37:23 AM »
Quote from: LDF on September 14, 2011, 04:25:18 AM
Is that your definition of moral character? Honesty?

The Alpha's weren't a 'mess'...they were just children, both litterally and figuratively...she taught them how wolves act, how to actually USE the senses of their new forms.
I dont' think she was running ethics classes, though.
  Honesty is basic to morality my friend.  Yes, she did, and she also taught them how wolves act, no more, no less, true to themselves and true to the animal form they were taking, that is ethics. 

6848
DF Reference Collection / Re: [GS Spoilers] The truth about Fitz (seriously, it's spoilerific) (fresh from DC)
« on: September 14, 2011, 03:50:09 AM »
Quote from: LDF on September 14, 2011, 03:46:36 AM
Could you please define 'great moral character'? It just seems like one of those 'fuzzy' opinion things.

Also, remember, she was engaged to the Loup, and I think there's a scene where she tells Harry at least part of the reason is because he's the most destructive thing out there.

  By her lights, tis a judgment call for sure, she was honest as only a wolf or a dog can be honest, the Alphas would have turned into a mess if it weren't for her..

6849
DF Reference Collection / Re: [GS Spoilers] The truth about Fitz (seriously, it's spoilerific) (fresh from DC)
« on: September 13, 2011, 08:59:54 PM »
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She taught them how to be wolves, according to Fool Moon.
I'm not sure what other 'values' are being discussed.

For one thing she taught the Alphas that wolves do not act like the guys with the belts, nor do they act like the Loup.  As I remember she was of great moral character in her own right, a great example for the young Alphas.

6850
DF Reference Collection / Re: [GS Spoilers] The truth about Fitz (seriously, it's spoilerific) (fresh from DC)
« on: September 11, 2011, 08:46:55 PM »
Quote from: Sir Huron Stone on September 11, 2011, 08:08:35 PM
HA!

 Makes sense because red heads are supposed to have bad tempers... ;)

6851
DF Reference Collection / Re: [GS Spoilers] The truth about Fitz (seriously, it's spoilerific) (fresh from DC)
« on: September 11, 2011, 05:20:46 PM »
Quote from: Sm0kEyNy on September 11, 2011, 04:49:20 PM
i always took Eric the red being odd for haveing red hair thus being dubbed eric the red but what do iknow

  That is how I understood he got the name, but I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time nor the last.

6852
DF Reference Collection / Re: [GS Spoilers] The truth about Fitz (seriously, it's spoilerific) (fresh from DC)
« on: September 11, 2011, 03:53:55 PM »
Quote from: jeno on September 11, 2011, 12:19:43 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair

"Red or reddish-tinged hair is also found in other European populations particularly in the Nordic and Baltic countries as well as parts of the Netherlands, Spain, Belgium, France, Greece, Turkey, Portugal, Italy, Germany, Russia and South Slavic countries."

 Yeah, it is all about the right combo of genes, it isn't good to generalize too much about any group.

6853
DF Reference Collection / Re: [GS Spoilers] The truth about Fitz (seriously, it's spoilerific) (fresh from DC)
« on: September 11, 2011, 12:12:01 AM »
Quote from: Warden John Marcone on September 10, 2011, 11:12:46 PM
But red hair is associated with the Irish, not the Scandanavians.  Yes, there are red haired Vikings, but from what I've seen Blonde and Black hair is WAAAAY more common than Red hair. 

Edit: And you keep bringing up Eric the Red.  Are you a descendant or something?  Not mocking, I'm just curious.
No, I happen to be a Danish decent, lots of red heads in my family.  There was a bit of a Scandinavian colony where I grew up, a lot of them were red heads.  In fact I know more red heads of Scandinavian decent than I do Irish, most of the ones I know have black hair.

6854
DF Reference Collection / Re: [GS Spoilers] The truth about Fitz (seriously, it's spoilerific) (fresh from DC)
« on: September 10, 2011, 04:27:34 PM »
Quote from: Arkham8 on September 10, 2011, 03:45:31 PM
So...Jim didn't actually say Fitz is cursed, Serack did...?

It's because he has red hair isn't it? Ron Weasley had red hair! Ginger power!

(Even though I have brown hair  :P)

 He could also be related to Gard, lots of Scandinavians have red hair, remember the famous Viking, Eric the Red?

6855
DF Reference Collection / Re: [GS Spoilers] The truth about Fitz (seriously, it's spoilerific) (fresh from DC)
« on: September 10, 2011, 02:14:03 PM »
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That is assuming that he has aged the way a human would for his entire life. If the hypothesis is correct then that might not be the case. If one of his parents was a wolf and one was a human then why assume he ages at the same rate as a normal human?
 
  That is a good point, but a stretch in my opinion, yes the age is all wrong. What tells me more than anything he isn't Tera West's pup, is his behavior.  Wolves are social creatures, they run in packs and are very good parents.  Tera West was impressive in her values,  a big thing she did was to teach the Alphas a good value system and what it means to be a wolf.  Fitz didn't show any of that, yeah, he is a sensitive, and Harry saw that he wasn't all bad, but if Harry hadn't come along, Fitz would have continued down the same road he was on most likely.  To me that just doesn't fit with the values of Tera West.

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