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31
DFRPG / Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
« on: July 28, 2013, 05:50:48 AM »
I'm gonna have to decline Moord Nag and Nilbog, partly because we don't know all that much about them and partly because they seem tricky to stat.

Brian and Taylor should be fairly easy, though. And I think I can manage Bonesaw.

The challenging one is Rachel. Might have to write a power-granting power for her.

Thanks!  ;D

One of the applications of Thaumaturgy is "Create Lasting Changes in People and Things". Maybe she has Ritual? We do know it takes some time for her to bulk up her dogs...but I'm pretty terrible at statting characters up anyways (which is why I'm asking you  :P).

32
DFRPG / Re: Statting Up Worm Characters
« on: July 28, 2013, 04:52:42 AM »
Not me  :-[.

However I do have some requests if you're interested. I think Grue, Taylor, Bitch, Nilbog, Moord Nag, and Bonesaw would all be really cool to see statted.

33
DF Reference Collection / Re: Lacuna's true nature
« on: July 17, 2013, 12:03:18 PM »
That is a really cool idea. I don't think I've seen that suggestion before.

That is a pretty cool idea. Kudos to Akak for coming up with it  :D.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: Suggest Topics Here!
« on: June 18, 2013, 04:49:18 PM »
Just some some the stuff you moved. Thank you Serack and Elegast!  ;D

And, I nominate this thread (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,36778.msg1772511.html#msg1772511). While I don't agree with everything in it (especially Odin being Merlin) I do think it has interesting insights that shouldn't be lost. 

35
DF Reference Collection / Re: Suggest Topics Here!
« on: June 12, 2013, 02:51:54 AM »
There are bunch of suggested topics in this thread that haven't been accepted or turned down. This is a (hopefully not annoying) reminder just in case the members of the SCD have forgot.  :)

36
Griff says:

1) The Elder/Great/Old Ones of the Dresdenverse, in parallel with the Lovecraftian creatures, are trans-dimensional non-atmospheric space aliens. 
2) The Outsiders, the lessers of the Elder/Great/Old Ones, are smaller-scale than the others, but of similar natures and evolution.  But they're still space aliens.

I've got this whole "tentacles are cosmic gravity propellers" idea in my head.  It's very believable... from a certain point of view.You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

Technically, Tehom is a space alien  :P.

Well if we think of the generic outsider (is there a generic outsider?) as say, one of Cthulhu's starspawn (if Cthulhu is supposed to be Nemesis tables will be flipped) it would make sense that they at least have the ability to work perfectly with each other.

Why? Do they have that ability in one of Lovecrafts stories?

37
Any more thoughts anyone?

38
Thanks count, btw, could you add where that WoJ came from?  I usually include either a link or the year/event

Also, when making a quote you can change the part in the first brackets to say {quote=quote source here}

It's already in the WoJ section  :D. Specifically the AMA Reddit Q&A  (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,34849.0.html)

You mean to tell me you haven't memorized every WoJ on this website?  :o.

So a lil background on Hells Bells from wiki-answers.
what is the origin of the idiom hell's bells?
-If you are unfortunate enough to get to, Hell, when you arrive there is a ceremony where new arrivals are required to ring bells, like church bells, to let all in Hell know you have arrived. In other words, Hell's bells, are what are rung to alert those that have been there a while, "You have company."

I know it contradicts my earlier theory but maybe Hells Bells do go off when we have outsider visitors?

On Stars and Stones, Something that struck me literally ten min ago as I reread changes. When Harry goes to the stone table there is very specifically 5 cold pure stars described as upon Lady nights throat(Hint hint!). I wonder if the phrase isn't connected to these stars and this stone table? conjecture, SNS will deal with how the table was made, how it works and why it can give power to a wellspring. possibly I'll have more later, I'm supposed to be asleep :o

Very interesting stuff. Added.

39
Thoughts on the new organization in the OP? I'm thinking of snipping and pasting the quotes so that the need for a "Combination" section would be obviated. Some of the quotes only have a little bit that's relevant to this thread too. I dunno if the people who made the quotes would be okay with it though...?

40
Here's the thread I made for the Tehom=Outsiders theory: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,38033.0.html

[summon target="Serack"]
IIRC...
The WoJ in my head goes a little differently. It states (paraphrasing) "who is to say they [WG and Lucifer] are not the originals? We wouldn't know." He appeared to be speculating; not necessarily a statement of DV fact.
[/summon]

Here you go:

Quote
Dudesan: Related to #1- In the short story Backup, you introduced the oblivion war and the Venatori, who undermine the supernatural beings by making humanity forget about them[2] . They once hoped to try that trick against the fairies, but the narrator of that story remarked that it was judged to be unfeasible. What are the limits of this strategy? Is memory-erasing magic useful to it (or does it have to be "legitimate" forgetting?), and if so, would some enormous blanket memory-erasing ritual similar in principle to the heart-ripping spell at the climax of Changes[3] be a superweapon in this fight? Could this theoretically be attempted against Lucifer or even The Almighty?
Jim: 6) It's got to be genuine forgetfulness. And for all we know, there's already been a Lucifer and an Almighty that's been forgotten. I mean, how would we know, eh? Though I think you could never really truly banish everything. As long as there's an irrational thought or someone wondering, "Who made this place?" Thank God, so to speak. A world of pure rationality would be desperately dull. And I'd probably have to write English papers.

41
DFRPG / Re: WCV Powers
« on: May 15, 2013, 08:50:08 PM »
Harry's conversations with Bob re: souls, Susan, and True Love
I believe it would be found shortly after Harry's hand goes numb from using Soulfire, but I could be mistaken.

Can't find it.


42
DFRPG / Re: WCV Powers
« on: May 15, 2013, 08:28:15 PM »
Going by the novels, the WCVs are feeding off bits of your soul energy.  So anything without a soul would be inappropriate to feed off of. 

I'm not sure if that means they also would be immune to incite emotion though.

Source?

43
(I'm in a bit of a hurry right now so my thoughts will be a bit scrambled. I'll probably clean them up later)

Tehom is an ancient force of chaos and darkness in RL mythology that has connections to Abrahamic mythology. Some sources (thanks to Ms.Duck):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tehom

http://anystrom.blogspot.com/2008/08/tehom-and-tiamat-concept-of-chaols-in.html

http://www.jstor.org/stable/3141790

http://archive.org/stream/babylonianinflu00palmgoog#page/n8/mode/2up

It was the primordial darkness before God said "let their be light". It resented the light so the "spirit of God" quelled the darkness and in the DV cast it out. My theory is that Tehom is actually the Outsiders. All of them.

Tehom being the Outsiders also explains how the Outsiders can be a hivemind and also explains HWWB's statement in Ghost Story:

Quote from: Ghost Story Chapter 32
"This isn't your world," I whispered.

"Not now," He Who Walks Behind murmured, its smile widening. "But it will be ours again in just a little time."


The Outsiders being associated with "voids" and "coldness" also meshes nicely with the primioridal darkness being them.

This theory also meshes nicely with mithrandirthewhite's theory that the Firmament = Outer Gates ( http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,36172.msg1721369.html#msg1721369). In this theory the "flood" is actually the Outsiders/Tehom. The links I posted also say that Tehom  fundamentally means “flood.”

It also explains why the Outsiders would want "Empty Night". They resent the creation of "light' (this may mean actuall light and/or mortals. I suspect the sky being starless at the Outer Gates means it is both symbolic and literal). The "stars" could also represent being with souls/Free Will. Their are a ton of us surrounded by soulless beings and objects just like their are a ton of stars surrounded by darkness.

Tehom also has connection to being a dragon goddess in RL myth.I don't think that Jim will use this interpretation in the DV because Dragons aren't really "alien" enough to be Outsiders. Plus we've already seen Dragons before.

Tehom also has connections to "the Deeps". This is a thing that shows up both in RL myth and the DV:

It is first mentioned in Genesis 1:2:

Quote
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (King James version)

The Deeps are the primordial waters of chaos from which creation came from. The "darkness" is Tehom and the "Spirit of God" is well...God.

We have a version of this quote by Thomas in the books (which isn't in any of the popular translation of the bible either):

Quote
"Love is patient. Love is kind. Love always forgives, trusts, supports, and endures. Love never fails. When every star in the heavens grows cold, and when silence lies once more on the face of the deep, three things will endure: faith, hope, and love."

"And the greatest of these is love," I finished. "That's from the Bible."

"First Corinthians, chapter thirteen," Thomas confirmed.


Tehom can be literally translated as the Deep.

Thoughts?

44
The Tehom=Outsiders theory doesn't really fit here that much (except for the bit about Empty Night). I think I'll create a new thread.

In the meantime new theories, quotes, and thoughts on how to organize the OP are welcome.

45
id recommend hitting your library and checking out comparative religions.. the connection between Tehom and the Sumerian/Babylonian Tiamat is very highly debated; the archaeology papers ive read tend to consider it very plausible while more religious authors- especially some conservative Christians- hate it.

on the nets, some good write ups ive found include:

http://anystrom.blogspot.com/2008/08/tehom-and-tiamat-concept-of-chaols-in.html

http://www.jstor.org/stable/3141790

http://archive.org/stream/babylonianinflu00palmgoog#page/n8/mode/2up

as a non believer I can see the thematic/ linguistic/ artistic connections and understand that Abrahamic religions did not evolve in a vacuum (note the flood myth, which has similar connections) but at the same time I understand why some believers might have issues with the idea.

either way, it's common enough I think it's likely Jim may have run into it, and do you really see him turning down the chance to use the original Godzilla?





 ;)

I actually have a theory-I don't know if its been brought up before- that Tehom is the Outsiders. I believe-correct me if I'm wrong- that Tehom was the primordial darkness before God said "let their be light". It resented the light so the "spirit of God" quelled the darkness/chaos and in the DV cast it out.

Tehom being the Outsiders also explains how the Outsiders can be a hivemind and also explains HWWB's statement in Ghost Story:

Quote from: Ghost Story Chapter 32
"This isn't your world," I whispered.

"Not now," He Who Walks Behind murmured, its smile widening. "But it will be ours again in just a little time."


The Outsiders being associated with "voids" and "coldness" also meshes nicely with the primioridal darkness being them.

This theory also meshes nicely with mithrandirthewhite's theory that the Firmament = Outer Gates ( http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,36172.msg1721369.html#msg1721369). In this theory the "flood" is actually the Outsiders/Tehom. The links you posted also say that Tehom  fundamentally means “flood.”

It also explains why the Outsiders would want "Empty Night". They resent the creation of "light' (this may mean actuall light and/or mortals. I suspect the sky being starless at the Outer Gates means it is both symbolic and literal). The "stars" could also represent being with souls/Free Will. Their are a ton of us surrounded by soulless beings and objects just like their are a ton of stars surrounded by darkness.

I don't think that Tehom is a dragon goddess in the DV because Dragons aren't really "alien" enough to be Outsiders. Plus we've already seen Dragons before.

Thoughts?

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