Also, as for other accomplices, I nominate Thomas. He shadows Harry for much of the plot, and when he joins the party, it is noticeable how apart from the group he is. Thomas doesn't really do anything to affect PG.
Also, as for other accomplices, I nominate Thomas. He shadows Harry for much of the plot, and when he joins the party, it is noticeable how apart from the group he is. Thomas doesn't really do anything to affect PG.
2) Summon the Murk during the Phage attacks
A, the cold nature of the Murk wards in these attacks screams Winter
B, Harry does briefly sense something familiar about the magic involved when he reaches out towards it
I rubbed my hand against the back of my neck. It didn’t make it hurt any less, but it gave me something to do. “I’ve seen these goat guys, or read about them before,” I said. “Or at least something close to them. Where did I put those texts on the near reaches of the Nevernever?”
“North wall, green plastic box under the work bench,” Bob provided immediately.
“Thanks,” I said. I dragged out the heavy plastic storage box. It was filled with books, most of them leather-bound, hand-written treatises on various supernatural topics. Except for one book that was a compilation of Calvin and Hobbes comic strips. How had that gotten in there?
Awesome writeup, and basically fits with what I've believed for a while. A few points:Here it is:
First:
I don't suppose you have a quote of that bit? I don't remember Harry finding the murk familiar. Also, I thought it was discussed that the murk was just something these phages can do?
He gave me an odd look, grabbed an older woman who was passing blindly, and sent her off to follow the wall to the door out. He shivered then, and when he exhaled his breath came out in a long, frosty plume. The temperature had dropped maybe forty degrees in the space of a minute.
I struggled to ignore the sounds of frightened people in the dark and focused on my magical senses. I reached out to the cold and the gloom, and found it a vaguely familiar kind of spellworking, though I couldn’t remember precisely where I’d encountered it before.
I spun in a slow circle with my eyes closed, and felt the murk grow deeper, darker as I faced back down the hall to the hotel’s front desk. I took a step that way, and the murk thickened marginally. The spell’s source had to be that way. I gritted my teeth and started forward.
Second: To go along with your Thomas thing, I seem to remember a post from a while ago that pointed out that Thomas was pretty spooked when Harry returned, that day. Like, "Point a shotgun at Harry for a second" spooked. It could just be fear of a Black Court attack, but it also could be that something weird happened that day.
3) Rear End PGH at the beginning.
I'm not sure what this accomplished. The scene describes multiple impacts. Possible results I can identify are:
- Murph getting called in on the case early
- Delay's Harry's being able to get onto the case
- Makes Harry miserable early.
This seemed like an act of opportunity and desperation. It was violent and not very precise. The main reason why I pin TTH for this is because if he was indeed around he would probably have the opportunity, and maybe need the above 2 things accomplished, and also because I remember being lead to believe that we would get resolution to this mystery and seeing the scene from TTH's perspective ramming PGH would certainly give us closure. (the last is red because I'm not happy that I don't know where that memory comes from)
Here it is:The reference to direction strikes me... back towards the hotel's front desk...???
I could see marling being fomor.I went back and read the various bits of Marling on-screen in PG... nothing there says Fomor to me... She doesn't wear a turtleneck sweater in the heat (like Vito does in BR), etc. None of the fomor descriptor tags are used there. I can't buy it. Sorry.
I went back and read the various bits of Marling on-screen in PG... nothing there says Fomor to me... She doesn't wear a turtleneck sweater in the heat (like Vito does in BR), etc. None of the fomor descriptor tags are used there. I can't buy it. Sorry.But can you conclusively prove that she isn't?
But can you conclusively prove that she isn't?What, prove a negative? All but impossible....please spare me.
The main thing that broke this barrier down for PG is Priscellie’s observation in my LC fix timing topic (Required external reading #2) that since Jim spent ink on explaining temporal issues in PG, something in that book required a temporal anomaly. Yet we didn’t see the temporal Chekhov’s gun get fired, so if the reasoning is sound, it happened off screen.Devil's Advocate: We did see time travel, in the sense that Maeve manipulated the time-stream around AT. I think that was the first time we saw such a thing in the series, and needed at least some sort of setup before Murphy's job is all but lost at the end because of it.
2) Summon the Murk during the Phage attacksThere's a lot more to the Reaper attack than just that.
A, the cold nature of the Murk wards in these attacks screams Winter
B, Harry does briefly sense something familiar about the magic involved when he reaches out towards it
Negative: It's hard to imagine Harry submitting to casting a spell that would facilitate the carnage the phages were wreaking, and also the blowby damage that was done by the confused people.
TTH could bring a side kick. This has its own hazards because it's now 2 elephants in the temporal china shop, but may be doylisticly necessary.I'm hoping for Maggie, and she has the Calvin & Hobbes book in her backpack. She amuses herself while Harry fixes LC, and then when he hastily puts things away, he either leaves the book because he remembers finding it later, or he hastily puts it with the others, not realizing what it was.
Detail Mysteries from Proven Guilty: These aren’t as huge as above, but insight on them might shed light on the others.Other things of note that aren't actually mysteries:
Also, as for other accomplices, I nominate Thomas. He shadows Harry for much of the plot, and when he joins the party, it is noticeable how apart from the group he is. Thomas doesn't really do anything to affect PG.The issue I have with Thomas is that, if Thomas knew Harry was going to time travel back at some point, why was he so sure Harry was dead after Changes? Instead he would have been convinced Harry wasn't, because he hadn't traveled back yet.
The issue I have with Thomas is that, if Thomas knew Harry was going to time travel back at some point, why was he so sure Harry was dead after Changes? Instead he would have been convinced Harry wasn't, because he hadn't traveled back yet.
Elementary, my dear Griff. TTH explains to Thomas enough about not mucking around with the timeline that Thomas shadows Harry and rescues him when he needs to, and then does his best to stay out of the decision making process.
So when Harry dies, Thomas thinks that the timeline had indeed been mucked with and IT'S ALL HIS FAULT.
I also wondered if perhaps Harry riding Murphy's bike with magical lance sort of messed with time a bit.How?
I started channeling our force into the staff, focusing it into a blunted wedge in front of us. All the
extra power flooding ahead of us started heating the air, and flickers of blue and purple fire began
streaking back around us in a corona, like one of the space shuttles on reentry.
Grif;I never read that series, so I don't get the reference. But others have suggested he's got to go back to stop another traveler. I just think that's too Terminator, but if anyone could pull it off, it'd be JB.
No, nonoononono, apologies for misunderstanding/miscommunication
I didn't want to imply that he came after someone, think someone very powerful but also quite deep in the cukoo lander territory (possibly not experiencing the flow of time as mortals do) trying to "help" TTHarry, on it's own volition.
Think Fizban and his fireballs in the dragonlance stories.
I've never been that convinced of the "traveling back to find another traveler" plot. It seems more likely to me that he'll need to travel back for information. I'm not sure who would go back like that, unless it's a multi-temporal assault (again) or a turned enemy going back to help with the AT attack, even though that doesn't make temporal sense.Really? It seems like chasing a villain through time would be the most likely reason for Harry to go back in time to me. Just information doesn't seem like a good enough reason to need to go back in time. He can bargain with people in the present for secrets.
Really? It seems like chasing a villain through time would be the most likely reason for Harry to go back in time to me. Just information doesn't seem like a good enough reason to need to go back in time. He can bargain with people in the present for secrets.Unless the only person that had the information is dead. There were theories a while back that Mab, Lea, or someone else might die before the casefiles are over. Others have speculated that he'll need to use Little Chicago to find something.
Unless the only person that had the information is dead. There were theories a while back that Mab, Lea, or someone else might die before the casefiles are over. Others have speculated that he'll need to use Little Chicago to find something.But with players like Mab/Odin/Uriel, are there really bits of important information that could have died with someone? Maybe, but I can't imagine what it would be.
As for someone going back... the only reason to go back would be to help with the attack on Arctis Tor. But since the TTH theory largely calls for a stable loop via time bridge, the events occurring would occur once, and remain unchanged. If you throw that out, then it ruins the link to the events that already passed in PG.
For example, let's say Ferro decides to go back to help fight against AT. That means he doesn't recall participating the first time, and no-one that did reported his participation. But since we've already "seen" Future Harry's participation in events during PG, it means that whoever he followed back was also there.
The only way it works is if the person going back (or anyone they know, including surviving allies) doesn't know they already did, and that it failed.
QuoteI started channeling our force into the staff, focusing it into a blunted wedge in front of us. All the
extra power flooding ahead of us started heating the air, and flickers of blue and purple fire began
streaking back around us in a corona, like one of the space shuttles on reentry.
I think Harry inadvertently tapped into a time manipulation. That motorcycle, as we see in Cold Days, has a history with time travel. It is also likely that Cold Days isn't the first time it rode with The Wild Hunt. Thomas rode that motorcyle in Dead Beat, I believe. He did get pulled into the Hunt then. It's also a vehicle strongly resistant to active mortal magic.
Griffyn, mate... you really lack in the "techno romance" department.By that idea, the Beetle should have benefited from a bonus. It escaped flaming monkey poo, helped slay a chlorofiend controlled by a Summer Lady, survived mold demons, was exposed to who knows how many tracking spells, was imbued be Harry's purpose countless times as he raced to people's aid, and had direct contact with wizard blood, foo dog drool, and Mister's hairs.
Certain machines... just bend the rules of probability and casuality even in the mundane real life (See older Toyota Hilux, 286/386/486 computers, F4 Phantom II, UH-1 Iroquois, Yamaha YBR 125 ( :D ) and so on and so forth) and others have a mystique about them (Choppers, Cheap Steel Asian-American Defence Implements, Bullwhips) , although unexplainable.
It isn't hard to think that a trusted iron steed that already possesses both of such qualities, could/would become much more in the "magic is real" of the Dresdenverse.
This is one of the more interesting new WoJ from yesterday. It's only fitting that the most British character in the DV so far is associated with time magic. In hindsight, we could have probably guessed this based off Doctor Who, Big Ben, and Jim's sense of irony.
So, based on this I'm going to make a WAG that Chandler will be Harry's companion/sidekick in the time travel book (crosses fingers in the hopes that it's titled Second Chance). While we're at it, it seems that Chandler as the British prisoner in Demonreach is a valid possibility as well if Chandler needed to wait out some time shenanigans.
Am I the only one that didn't realize that Chandler was part of the young faction of wardens?
In what book will we find out who fixed Little Chicago?
Probably not until 19 or 20. Since I'm a lazy writer, probably 20. I think that would be good for the last of the case files, so I'll hold off on that one.
Wait, you can combine those two theories and make Harry's TT companion British Prisoner TT Chandler... Which is an awesome theory! (Edit: And probably what you were trying to say)I've also suggested in the past that Chandler's note to Harry in Changes coupled with Luccio's was that there were two messages sent to two different Harry's. One Harry, other IdHarry. I also wonder if perhaps there was information that Chandler got via time divination that he provided to Harry.
Third: The Calvin and Hobbes book! Granted, this actually takes place in the third chapter of the following book, Small Favor, but seems like it should count.
My guess is Mab was paying off a debt, not completing a deal she was forced to make.JB has said that Mab is in the process of balancing her ledger and that, as of SG, she had worked her way down to Nicodemus. Truth to tell, though, the dialogue within SG clearly shows us that her debt was to Nic’s Fallen, Anduriel – with Nic as the actor/minion who did the deed just as Harry will be Mab's actor/minion to repay the debt. That would seem to mean the payoff at AT would have to have been to a more Powerful entity than Anduriel, an Angel. The time difference between PG and SG is about eight years so there’s no telling how Powerful an entity she’d be paying back that much earlier on.
Oh yah! I'd actually already concluded that it was likely that Thomas was there when LC was fixed. I'm more inclined to say they had a few conversations, but I'm reluctant to think they interacted more than thatI have a little trouble with Thomas being a knowing accomplice to TTH during PG. The main reason is his reaction to Harry's "death". If he knew that TTH was coming from the future, why was he so badly bummed all the way through GS... and still had a beef with Harry on his boat during CD? His knowledge that Harry had come from the past should have precluded such an emotional response; he'd have known Harry wasn't really dead.
Captain Kudzu” was working under Mab’s orders. Having been deemed “sufficient” and since she ordered someone to bring Molly in. (This tilts my theorizing away from the theories that he was a nemesis agent, since Mab was actively trying to recover from nemfection in her ranks when she assigned him. But that's not a given.)now see, I've never thought these were mutually exclusive.*upon farther thought, it's my belief mab intentionally puts things in harrys sphere of existence knowing full well they may or probly are Nfected. Besides this, we know Cat Sith. But what purpose did mab have putting the eldest of his race to work as harrys batman when any other could have worked? I can't remember the difference between watsonian and doyalist but considering that precise character becomes a threat in the very same book, I find it highly likely she knew and wanted them to cross paths* Mab sent the fetches to do just that, fetch. But did she? The captain says he has worked for the queen of whatever since before human memeory, but if before human memory consigns one to oblivion, how is this possible? He referred to the original. This is a case of the embalance causing MW to release that which was contained beyond intentionally, to preserve a balance when necassary(at the time mab had the WK locked up... Locking up an element of the winter court that is supposed to have freedom of Will was why the fetches were sent at all I think, otherwise the winter knight could do) Also, as the fetches are one of the only fairy creatures who possess no body on the mortal plain, they lack that 'soul' or choice related to being part mortal, they were set up that way to eat the Nfection that can be perceived in PG that Molly hasn't had to deal with since, cause they ate that Nfected bit of soul right before Harry got to the top of the tower. Case in point, mouse's reaction to Molly when N is potentially present, or fearbringer specifically. The whole explaination for how the fetches are summoned shows
2) Summon the Murk during the Phage attacksyour forgetting one key element TTH has to make sure of, his concurrent alterations do not end in the premature death of Harry himself and other unwanted effects, like Molly going bad, getting killed, ect. Same reason Thomas seems to follow him in the background after the 'LC incident'. Been awhile again... But if you notice by the time Harry arrives past the murk he's no longer afraid of the fetch, he's pissed directly because of the mayhem those extra seconds caused. So this is one more 'stop past self from dying' action that was actually all caused by an alteration of time regardless of if time travel Harry did it or GK, the moment Harry learned of black magic early it changed everything that had been going to happen, but the effect had to be controlled to keep it from ending up worse. Also not certain but
A, the cold nature of the Murk wards in these attacks screams Winter
B, Harry does briefly sense something familiar about the magic involved when he reaches out towards it
Negative: It's hard to imagine Harry submitting to casting a spell that would facilitate the carnage the phages were wreaking, and also the blowby damage that was done by the confused people.
4) Probably something big at AT before the PG dungeon crawl party showed up.if TTH did it, then the current 'cascade' had Harry becoming a denarian, which from MM seems likely enough. This would also explain mabs anger at Harry over the assault, her seeming double ontondra to me, implying one day he himself would pay, not for the second assault, but for the first one he may have done... Can't take balance on someone who hasn't done what they did yet I think...
To be honest, the main reason why think TTH was involved in the battle PGH saw the aftermath of is because I really want some closure on what happened here, and this is the ideal way to get it. I WANT I WANT I WANT. There maybe if I say it loud enough I'll get it. (Griff has pointed out to me that Jim has promised us more story about what happened at AT)
5) Fix Little Chicago the morning of the 2nd day, while Harry was out of the Appt. at the Hospital with Murphy, Bob, and Mouse.the cascade! Harry wasn't going to use little Chicago early before GK sent his note, it pushed up his actions and would have caused his death, so while future Harry could have done, current GK could have also if he was looking for echoes that he caused passing along the note... Personally, all the energy to one spot... Makes me wonder if TTH didn't arrive through it, it's basically I big focus for a time and place, Chicago, for only as long as the model was kept accurate, so thaumaturgically it could connect through time and space and be the 'dolorian' in question.
Evidence for TTH kinda stacks up, not that there aren't alternate possibilities.
See my LC fix timing topic linked in the background post above for the evidence as to the timing
TTH was intimately familiar with LC. And had the chops. And knew it was there. And could get in (not as big a deal). All those things listed at the end of PG.
I have felt deep down for a long time that if TTH did it, he did it because a functional LC was absolutely vital for him to do something HE needed to cast a spell for. This binds LC's fixing tightly to the "tropish TTH goals"
The Mystery of who fixed LC becomes necessary to preserve the space time continuum!
I'll just keep adding things to this post as I remember them or find the pertaining question in the first post, or if someone replies directly....
Has anyone ever compiled a list of all the stuff that is "off" in PG? Just a bullet point list of the things that dont add up to the rest of the series or dont line up with the events of the big picture?
After reading the series so many times, I kind of think that PG doesnt take place in the same timeline/reality as the rest of the series. Just to name one thing really quick: Why does the sign in Mac's say "Accorded Neutral Ground" instead of the "Accorded Neutral Territory" like all of the other books post GP?
Maybe Ill try to set up a list like that and post it on its own thread after reading it again...