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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: SerScot on July 24, 2018, 09:34:31 PM
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Really, for it to fit a relocated castle after it burned wouldn’t it have to be fricking huge?
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Really, for it to fit a relocated castle after it burned wouldn’t it have to be fricking huge?
An old Victorian Mansion would be big enough, especially if it was one that survived the Great Chicago Fire.. Some of the ones built by the meat packing kings etc were huge.. It was also surrounded by a lot, so that could have been covered over as well.
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Okay, that plus the yard makes sense. But, if Harry’s apartment took up the full basement... he always complained about how small it was.
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A basement isn't necessarily the entire footprint of a building.
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A basement isn't necessarily the entire footprint of a building.
Harry's apartment probably wasn't the whole basement, just a portion that was turned into an apartment is another possibility.
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Harry's apartment probably wasn't the whole basement, just a portion that was turned into an apartment is another possibility.
That is a real possibility, plus consider the size of Harry's lab, which originally must have been the root cellar, it was huge by root cellar standards..
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That would make sense. In other towns where Ive seen them carve up old buildings for boarding houses, they do make use of any hole or closet and call it square-footage.
Also a lot of the medieval castles were downright tiny by the more mythological standards we (or rather I) have been exposed to, via Disney mostly. This one was four stories tall which wouldnt have to be that sprawling.
Looking back at the initial description, I want to know the details of the Gargoyles on the place. We all know Marcone would not bother with Just Stone.
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Quantus,
That would make sense. In other towns where Ive seen them carve up old buildings for boarding houses, they do make use of any hole or closet and call it square-footage.
Also a lot of the medieval castles were downright tiny by the more mythological standards we (or rather I) have been exposed to, via Disney mostly. This one was four stories tall which wouldnt have to be that sprawling.
Looking back at the initial description, I want to know the details of the Gargoyles on the place. We all know Marcone would not bother with Just Stone.
I suppose a small castle on a big lot makes sense. Otherwise it would have been phyisically impossible to get the castle moved and built in 6 months.
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Quantus,
I suppose a small castle on a big lot makes sense. Otherwise it would have been phyisically impossible to get the castle moved and built in 6 months.
eh, very little is physically impossible when money is no object. It could be done (by a billionaire) even in the real world (You'd be amazed at what Ive seen thrown up during the 10-day yearly shutdown some of these plants and mills do all their maintenance in). For a stacked-stone structure the real bottleneck is the physical transportation of the material (deep-sea shipping and customs delay) but Id say there's even odds that Marcone arranged for NN transportation.
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I have some doubts about the ability to take apart such a structure, from a standing start in such a short period of time. Shipping might not be an issue. My guess is that you could land the castle in Chicago, direct from anywhere since you have access to the Atlantic directly. The problem would be taking it apart without breaking it, and indexing so you could reconstruct it. If you're interested some enterprising group is building a small castle in France. https://www.guedelon.fr/en/introduction_75.html (https://www.guedelon.fr/en/introduction_75.html) Of course magic.
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I have some doubts about the ability to take apart such a structure, from a standing start in such a short period of time. Shipping might not be an issue. My guess is that you could land the castle in Chicago, direct from anywhere since you have access to the Atlantic directly. The problem would be taking it apart without breaking it, and indexing so you could reconstruct it. If you're interested some enterprising group is building a small castle in France. https://www.guedelon.fr/en/introduction_75.html (https://www.guedelon.fr/en/introduction_75.html) Of course magic.
Well, someone bought a London Bridge made of stone took it apart and shipped it to Arizona and put it up over a man made lake in the middle of the desert..
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Well, someone bought a London Bridge made of stone took it apart and shipped it to Arizona and put it up over a man made lake in the middle of the desert..
Well, to be fair it sounds like that one actually just used the original stone to facade over modernized concrete structure.
What Marcone was /wanting/ to do was this:
(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/27/d7/14/27d714f205c3e1a593a75f5874ffe427--gargoyles-disney-mighty-max.jpg)
Which makes sense in light of Marcone, Morgan, and Murphy all having inspiration taken from that show. Makes me really think there was some magic significance to it like in the show, either the castle itself provides different protections, he was trying to control the NN side, or maybe like the show it satisfied some magic spell condition.
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Who knows, maybe Marcone will get Gard to work out some levitation runes, raise it over the clouds and see if anything wakes up.
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Who knows, maybe Marcone will get Gard to work out some levitation runes, raise it over the clouds and see if anything wakes up.
You know, all joking aside it DOES mention that there are tonnes of gargoyles on the thing, getting more and more ugle as you go up. Historically those are supposed to be supernatural guardians, I wonder if his are similarly legit in some fashion (He's not the sort to decorate like that without purpose)
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Makes me really think there was some magic significance to it like in the show, either the castle itself provides different protections, he was trying to control the NN side, or maybe like the show it satisfied some magic spell condition.
If you notice, the first thing I always point out that connects Marcone to Arthur is his dual Christian and Celtic overtones, especially in FM were Harry mentions the church on his property was moved their stone by stone too. Marcone has a flair for it apparently, which is not to say it's not all kinds of significant.
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Well, to be fair it sounds like that one actually just used the original stone to facade over modernized concrete structure.
What Marcone was /wanting/ to do was this:
(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/27/d7/14/27d714f205c3e1a593a75f5874ffe427--gargoyles-disney-mighty-max.jpg)
Which makes sense in light of Marcone, Morgan, and Murphy all having inspiration taken from that show. Makes me really think there was some magic significance to it like in the show, either the castle itself provides different protections, he was trying to control the NN side, or maybe like the show it satisfied some magic spell condition.
Which is what Marcone may have done.
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eh, very little is physically impossible when money is no object. It could be done (by a billionaire) even in the real world (You'd be amazed at what Ive seen thrown up during the 10-day yearly shutdown some of these plants and mills do all their maintenance in). For a stacked-stone structure the real bottleneck is the physical transportation of the material (deep-sea shipping and customs delay) but Id say there's even odds that Marcone arranged for NN transportation.
No. Moving a sizable working castle from Scotland to Chicago and having it’s mortar dry enough for it to be a secure facility in under six months would be impossible even with modern tech and magic. It is too much mass to move unless a god steps in and finger snaps the building from one place to another. Cash isn’t going to influence a god in that context.
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Well, someone bought a London Bridge made of stone took it apart and shipped it to Arizona and put it up over a man made lake in the middle of the desert..
In six months?
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A quick Google search says that the smallest castle in England takes up about 61% of an acre. Ohh, and it was for sale a year ago.
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No. Moving a sizable working castle from Scotland to Chicago and having it’s mortar dry enough for it to be a secure facility in under six months would be impossible even with modern tech and magic. It is too much mass to move unless a god steps in and finger snaps the building from one place to another. Cash isn’t going to influence a god in that context.
Well, Odin does seem to like Marcone and it's his einherjar staffing the place...
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Well, Odin does seem to like Marcone and it's his einherjar staffing the place...
And they are paid.
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In six months?
Little longer, from Wikipedia
The original stonework was used to clad a new concrete structure.[1] The reconstruction took slightly over three years and was completed in late 1971. The bridge was not reconstructed over a river, but rather it was rebuilt on land in a position between the main part of the city and Pittsburgh Point, at that time a peninsula jutting into Lake Havasu. Once completed, the Bridgewater Channel Canal was dredged under the bridge and flooded, separating Pittsburgh Point from the city, creating an island. As a result, the bridge now traverses a navigable shortcut between the Thompson Bay part of Lake Havasu south of Pittsburgh Point, and the remainder of Lake Havasu to the north.[5]
But then again Marcone could of had some supernatural help from Gard's friends..
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Mr. Death,
Well, Odin does seem to like Marcone and it's his einherjar staffing the place...
One of the things that I have always liked about DF magic is that it has some relationship to real world physics. It’s not “wave a wand and reassemble Manhattan” from “Magical Beasts and Where to Find Them”. If the castle appears with a finger snap we are definitely in the latter category.
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No. Moving a sizable working castle from Scotland to Chicago and having it’s mortar dry enough for it to be a secure facility in under six months would be impossible even with modern tech and magic. It is too much mass to move unless a god steps in and finger snaps the building from one place to another. Cash isn’t going to influence a god in that context.
Im sorry, are you arguing that /Magic/ is incapable of making mortar dry? :o ;D
Im not saying anyone finger-snapped and made it teleport, though Im also not saying didnt do something close (aka NN Ways instead of sea-shipping) since doing it that much the Easy Way would likely be more Debt than Marcone would think it worth. But it absolutely, 100% does not take 6 months for mortar to dry in any universe. Certainly not in any universe with modern concrete technology, and especially not in one with both that and magic. Seriously, next month we are putting up a three story steel and concrete structure, plus all the processing equipment that goes inside it, during a 10-day scheduled mill shutdown and with maybe two months prior mobilization on the part of the contractor. Even Harry noted that they'd likely had the plan in place and ready to move as soon as he was out of the way, so really the only stage that had to happen in the six month period is final assembly; there is a very real possibility that Marcone had the castle shipped, staged and ready in a wharehouse just outside of town. Hell,If give it even odds that he had planned to put it up somewhere else and just change the final location when a last-minute opportunity arose (Im assuming he gets something out of it being the former bastion residence of a paranoid wizard which was coincidentally fortified on the NN side by one of the most powerful fae around).
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Mr. Death,
One of the things that I have always liked about DF magic is that it has some relationship to real world physics. It’s not “wave a wand and reassemble Manhattan” from “Magical Beasts and Where to Find Them”. If the castle appears with a finger snap we are definitely in the latter category.
Doesn't have to be a fingersnap. We saw that Odin, for instance, was able to make a portal straight from Chichen Itza to Chicago. Hell, he's also Kris "Hit Every House On The Planet In One Night" Kringle. There's plenty of ways he could grease the wheels and get things done quicker.
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The six months timeline is off. Harry is brought back six months after his death, and the castle is already in use.
Modern construction can be done quickly, precast concrete panels and steel frames in particular. Having said that, a castle isn't modern construction. Harry is resurrected in May. Which means the castle would have been erected in winter. I can suspend belief as well as the next guy, but unless they used magic that would have been a tough build. But, magic I guess.
(Im assuming he gets something out of it being the former bastion residence of a paranoid wizard which was coincidentally fortified on the NN side by one of the most powerful fae around).
That assumes a lot unless he knew Harry was coming back. And according to portal mechanics as described in Skin Game that might change with The Brighter Future Society being there instead of Dresden.
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And according to portal mechanics as described in Skin Game that might change with The Brighter Future Society being there instead of Dresden.
Yea but technically the BFS stole Harry's brighter future mojo when they formed in the first place, remember what Harry's NN side looked like outside his house in iirc GP? It was Chicago, except brighter... and cleaner. I find this to be too much to be coincidence in the grand scheme of things.
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I think it’s just one of those aspects to the story where you don’t look too closely. Like Dresden’s origin story, him not being able to be near electronics but living in an apartment with a neighbour having a tv a meter above his head, why Captain Picard just happened to be wearing a jacket for the first time when he was beamed down to survive with a Tamarian captain, et cetera.
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I think it’s just one of those aspects to the story where you don’t look too closely. Like Dresden’s origin story, him not being able to be near electronics but living in an apartment with a neighbour having a tv a meter above his head, why Captain Picard just happened to be wearing a jacket for the first time when he was beamed down to survive with a Tamarian captain, et cetera.
Thresholds.... Thresholds....
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They built the Empire State building from scratch in a little over a year. That was back in 1930. I can see a small castle/keep being built in 6 months. Marcone may have had some supernatural help on the construction also.
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Ask JB how long it can take to build a house. ;D Having said that, he stated that it was built by GS, therefore, somehow it was built. However no keep , nor portcullis. My credulity can only be stretched so far.
I'm intrigued as to the reason the castle was built at all. What narrative purpose does it serve? Think about it for a second, in a residential area, JB built a medieval castle. Granted that the neighbors are deaf, dumb and blind, given all the mayhem that has occurred at Harry's home. But a castle?
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Just look one up here:
http://www.castlewales.com/listings.html
I am sure you can find one that fits in the space of a modest boarding house ;D
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Perhaps he bought the neighborhood. He can do it. :P
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That assumes a lot unless he knew Harry was coming back. And according to portal mechanics as described in Skin Game that might change with The Brighter Future Society being there instead of Dresden.
Not necessarily, at the very least it is likely one of the thinner spots in a town who's veil has been Thinning for years.
I dont really know how much (if any) of the defenses that Lea put on the NN side would remain; normally Id say they very much would Not, but I dont really get how she was able to do make the Garden in the first place without similarly changing it's Real World location and given how Edinburough's defenses seem to have remained through a change of ownership (fae to wizard) I think it's possible the location could have been changed by a Wizard's long-term residence enough to have some kind of tactical advantage aside from just the location it connects to on the NN side.
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All we have to go on that it is all stone all the way through was Harry's "feel" with his hand as he penetrated it to the threshold that it was constant stone. I question his ability to feel the interface between a good stone façade and solid concrete (which should feel like stone as well) attached to it underneath, though I suppose he could maybe feel rebar if that was in the mix.
So I think it distinctly possible it is not solid stone.
If it is, however... there are some wonderful sources of stone in the upper peninsula of Michigan that could be shipped there, though I don't think there is much in the way of basalt....
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Ask JB how long it can take to build a house. ;D Having said that, he stated that it was built by GS, therefore, somehow it was built. However no keep , nor portcullis. My credulity can only be stretched so far.
I'm intrigued as to the reason the castle was built at all. What narrative purpose does it serve? Think about it for a second, in a residential area, JB built a medieval castle. Granted that the neighbors are deaf, dumb and blind, given all the mayhem that has occurred at Harry's home. But a castle?
A castle is a lot stronger and more solid than most modern construction. A really old castle probably also has more of a threshold and more resistant to magical attack, especially from powerful non human monsters from the nevernever. Remember Marcone got his armored safe house broken into by the Denarians. I'm pretty sure that place was a modern fortress.