ParanetOnline

The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => DF Reference Collection => Topic started by: AcornArmy on July 08, 2011, 08:58:21 AM

Title: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: AcornArmy on July 08, 2011, 08:58:21 AM
Over the years there's been an endless series of guesses about who fixed Little Chicago, but there usually hasn't been much to separate any one theory from the legion and assign more credibility to it than many of the others. The questions to be answered are: how would someone get into Harry's home to fix the model without leaving any trace of their passage; how would someone even know that Little Chicago existed, or how to repair it; and why would someone enter Harry's home without his knowledge, fix the model, and then leave without ever letting him know? I think I know the answer to the first two questions, though the third is still mostly a mystery.

In Changes, Lea told Harry this:

Quote from: Changes, Ch. 15
"Ensuring the well-being of my spiritual self," I murmured. Then I blinked. "The garden, the one on the other side of this place... It's yours."

"Indeed, child," she said. "Did you not think it strange that in your turmoil-strewn time here none of your foes-- not one-- ever sought to enter from the other side? Never sent a spirit given form directly into your bed, your shower, your refrigerator? Never poured a basket of asps into your closet so that they sought refuge in your shoes, your boots, the pockets of your clothing?" She shook her head. "Sweet, sweet child. Had you walked much farther, you would have seen the mound of bones of all the things that have attempted to reach you, and which I have destroyed."

"Yeah, well. I nearly wound up there myself."

"La," she said, smiling. "My guardians were created to attack any intruder-- including one that looked like you. We couldn't have some clever shapeshifter slipping by, now, could we?" She sighed. "You took a terrible toll on my primroses. Honestly, child, there are elements other than fire, you know. You really ought to diversify. Now I have two gaping maws to feed instead of one."

"I'll... be more careful next time," I said.

"I should appreciate such a thing." She studied me quietly. "It has been true for your entire lifetime, child. I have followed you in the spirit world. Created guardians and defenses 'pon the other side to ward your sleep, to stand sentinel over your home. And you still have only the beginnings of an idea of how many have tried." She smiled, showing her delicately pointed canine teeth again. "Tried, and failed."

Which also explained how she was always near at hand whenever I had entered the Nevernever. How she would be upon my trail in seconds whenever I went in.

Because she had been there, protecting me.

We don't know when Lea went into the ice at Arctis Tor, or when she came out, but we do know that she was there during the period of time between Harry's conversation with Mab in Dead Beat and the time he came to Arctis Tor in Proven Guilty. This means that for the nine months between those two events, it wasn't Lea who was watching over Harry, but Mab.

Lea's garden connected directly to Harry's lab. Mab, being Mab, seems like she would certainly be capable of looking through the veil between Earth and the Nevernever so that she could see what was on the other side, if she chose to. Mab already had an interest in Harry as her next Winter Knight, and Lea's responsibilities toward Harry would've given her an additional motive to keep an eye on him. She could have scried on Harry many times prior to Proven Guilty, watching him as he put together Little Chicago. And, being Mab, she could've seen what Bob did not: that Little Chicago was flawed, and if Harry used it before it was repaired, it would fry his little wizard brain.

So, one day, on the day PG begins, Harry gets a note from the Gatekeeper about black magic in Chicago, and he decides to try using Little Chicago for the first time. Mab learns of this in whatever way she learns things-- though in this case, the Gatekeeper may have sent her a note telling her about it-- and realizes that if something isn't done, her future Winter Knight is very shortly going to die of his own stupidity.

I don't know why Mab didn't simply step into Harry's lab while Bob was there, but from the clandestine way that LC was fixed, we can guess that she didn't want Bob to see her doing it. Or maybe she didn't want anyone to observe her fixing it; the brownies aren't allowed down there, so there may not have been any observers around at all. Or maybe, if she and Bob were in the same place at the same time, she would be compelled to take some action against him, and she didn't want to do that yet because he was so useful to Harry. Just a guess.

Anyway, whatever her reasons were, Mab apparently didn't want to fix Little Chicago with an audience watching her. So she needed to find another way to prevent Harry from using the model before it was corrected. And while we don't know for certain that Arctis Tor had already been sacked by this point, it's quite possible that it had been, so Mab may also have had motive to interfere with the Black Council's plans. Mab uses her vast knowledge and foresight to plot out likely events, and realizes that if she sends fetches to plague Molly's life, Molly may contact Harry in time to head him off from getting his brain fried.

Mab may also have sent the drive-by car rammer to slow Harry down on his way home at the beginning of PG. That's not really vital to this theory, but without that incident Harry probably would have made it home in time to use Little Chicago before Molly could contact him. So maybe that can be laid at Mab's feet, also.

Harry gets bumped off the road and side-tracked. Mab sends fetches to screw up boyfriend Nelson's life. Nelson is arrested. Molly calls Harry for help, interrupting him before he can use Little Chicago. Harry goes to see her and finds himself coincidentally already onto the case of black magic, without ever needing to use LC to track it down. He eventually goes back home and grabs Bob, which leaves the lab empty of observers. Mab takes this opportunity to pop over, fix Little Chicago, and leave.

And that's the end of the relevant parts of the theory. I don't know why Mab had the fetches grab Molly and take her to Arctis Tor. I suspect she was killing a few birds with one stone, though I can only guess what the birds might have been. A lot more speculation about that can be found in knnn's recent thread, over here (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,26853.0.html).

Everything we needed to know in order to make this guess was actually in Proven Guilty, except for the vital information that Lea's demesne was across from Harry's laboratory. That gave Mab a simple means of crossing directly into his home, and her mandatory protection of him gave her a reason to be watching him. That, in turn, gave her plenty of opportunity to find out about Little Chicago.

If this theory has already been laid out like this by someone else, I truly apologize. It's not my intention to try to take credit for something that someone else may have gotten to first. The threads and posts theorizing about Little Chicago could probably fill a small library, and if it was posted here somewhere, I missed it.

Anyway-- this is what I think happened with Little Chicago. I think it makes more sense and is more believable than any of the other possibilities I've heard of, including the various time travel ideas. (I've never liked the time travel theories much. It always seemed too simple, while at the same time taking a major risk of paradox.)
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Zolt on July 08, 2011, 09:06:10 AM
I still maintain that Little Chicago fixed itself, shortly after it achieved sentience.

 
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Serack on July 08, 2011, 10:02:31 AM
I'm most of the way through reading PG right now.  Harry rarely brings Bob's skull out on adventures with him.  At that point, I think it had been the 3rd time, the first 2 being when Harry used him to figure out a way through the NN from his appt to Bianca's, and when he brought him out to Murphy's.

When Harry brought Bob to Murphy's I'd say that the main point of this from a writing perspective was to give Cowl an opportunity to take Bob in front of Harry so that the readers could see it.  From a similar perspective, Bob didn't serve a whole lot of purpose by being carried out on this particular adventure, so he was probably given a ride by the author for the purpose of having him vacate the lab so that LC could get fixed without him being there. 
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: X on July 08, 2011, 10:06:57 AM
Quote
Zolt
I still maintain that Little Chicago fixed itself, shortly after it achieved sentience.

Where do we ever learn that Little Chicago achieves sentience? 

In order for LC to fix itself, as you suggest, then it would stand to reason that Chicago itself has a form of sentience, which I do not think is true.  Highly magical places can have intellectus, and while many boatloads of magic have gone down in Chicago, I think the city is too big for such a thing, and thus by the transitive property that is in play by the small pieces of the larger buildings that are used for Little Chicago, there is now way for the model to gain sentience.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Zolt on July 08, 2011, 10:30:21 AM
Where do we ever learn that Little Chicago achieves sentience? 

We don't, but I suggest you read Codex Alera.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Shecky on July 08, 2011, 10:57:20 AM
I still maintain that Little Chicago fixed itself, shortly after it achieved sentience.

 

Oh, crap, a magical Skynet.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: BobForPresident on July 08, 2011, 04:08:20 PM
Where do we ever learn that Little Chicago achieves sentience? 

Bob's a jerk. He bends Harry's rules all the time. Maybe Harry denied him the limited anniversary edition of Juggsapoppin and so Bob decided Harry needed one more snarky pseudo-inanimate object in his life and gave birth to "Tim the LC" (sounds like a DJ).

Pretty soon Harry's life is going to resemble Peewee's Playhouse - nothing but animated couches and chairs all over the place.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Joefoe on July 08, 2011, 04:15:58 PM
AA Ms. Duck had this theory as well, and it was well fleshed out. I agree that the last piece of information sealed the deal for me that Mab fixed LC and it alsoe makes perfect sense that Lea was never far away from Harry in the NN
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: shadowlost on July 08, 2011, 04:36:52 PM
I always believed it was Lash as a form of protecting Harry.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Shecky on July 08, 2011, 04:42:49 PM
Duh, Mister did it.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Sir Huron Stone on July 08, 2011, 04:43:02 PM
Quote
Oh, crap, a magical Skynet.
LC will turn out to be the major villain of the BAT!
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: AcornArmy on July 08, 2011, 05:14:04 PM
AA Ms. Duck had this theory as well, and it was well fleshed out. I agree that the last piece of information sealed the deal for me that Mab fixed LC and it alsoe makes perfect sense that Lea was never far away from Harry in the NN

Ah, was this part of the "Mab is Molly" theory?
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: itari on July 08, 2011, 06:29:56 PM
Ah, was this part of the "Mab is Molly" theory?
I think everything is. :D

And yeah, I agree with the theory. Mab did it.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: biggs on July 08, 2011, 07:30:24 PM
I think it was Mac. Whose to say he couldn't have?
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Sir Huron Stone on July 08, 2011, 07:31:52 PM
Quote
I think it was Mac. Whose to say he couldn't have?
Please, let's not get into the "Mac is God" theory. I've heard that so much....
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Durwen on July 08, 2011, 07:40:22 PM
Please, let's not get into the "Mac is God" theory. I've heard that so much....


Okay. Mac is Death.  ;D
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: biggs on July 08, 2011, 07:45:38 PM
Mac is mayor McCheese after facial reconstruction surgery
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Sir Huron Stone on July 08, 2011, 07:45:50 PM
Quote
Okay. Mac is Death.  
*sigh*
At least it's something different....
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: itari on July 08, 2011, 09:33:46 PM
Okay. Mac is Death.  ;D
Of course not. He doesn't talk in ALL CAPS.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: AcornArmy on July 08, 2011, 09:34:06 PM
Some people are mentioning other random possibilities. I think that's missing the point. The mystery isn't really up in the air anymore, with no one suspect able to be especially singled out.

I realize that theories about Little Chicago have been around for years, in every possible flavor. Many of them involved Mab. Hell, some of mine involved Mab. But none of them were really based entirely on fact, because there was nothing to set any one suspect apart from several others. Sure, Mab was über-powerful and interested in Harry, but that wasn't really anything special. Titania is just as powerful, and she might've wanted to save him so that she could take her own sweet time exacting revenge on him later. The Gatekeeper could've done it for his own nebulous reasons, although he would've had to contend with Harry's wards. Nicodemus could've done it using some kind of Fallen super-sneakiness, just to keep a promising recruit alive. Hell, any of the nameless, faceless super-powerful beings in the Dresdenverse could have had their eye on Harry by that point, and any of them might have had their own reasons for keeping him alive.

But in Changes, we found out that, because of her role as godmother, Lea had been following Harry for his entire life, watching over him from the Nevernever side and protecting him from there. Which also means that for the nine months between Dead Beat and the end of Proven Guilty-- and probably for longer, but for those nine months definitely-- Mab was following Harry around, watching over him and protecting him from the Nevernever side.

Anyone could've been interested in him, but it was Mab who was tasked with protecting him, Mab who was watching over him, and Mab who had the opportunity to notice the flaw in Little Chicago's design and decide to do something about it. It was also Mab who would've been able to step right over from Lea's demesne into Harry's laboratory. She might have taken a hit from his threshold, but she's so strong that it wouldn't have incapacitated her.

We have clear, obvious evidence indicating that Mab is the best suspect. Barring future information to the contrary, it's got to be Mab who fixed Little Chicago.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Durwen on July 08, 2011, 09:45:18 PM
Unless, of course, Harry himself did it.

Proven Guilty has a lot of little things that make me think it'll be the background of a future time-traveling novel. So future Harry, wiser and stronger, has the need to go to his past home for something, notices the flaw, remembers it somehow unexpectedly disappeared back then, and figures out he's the one to fix it.

I don't actually remember if LC was fixed before or after Harry took Bob for a stroll, but if Bob was in the basement at the time, which would make sense as a motive for Harry to go there in the first place (wanting to consut the current state of the magic metaphysics with him, for example), he, as his owner, could easily order him to shut up about it, or even to completely forget the incident.



Edit: just noticed a typo.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: biggs on July 08, 2011, 09:52:31 PM
An interesting thought. It's been said that if mortals are stones in the river of time, ghosts are threads floating. Maybe ghostly Harry can travel backwards to influence his own life
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Landing on July 08, 2011, 10:38:46 PM
AA Ms. Duck had this theory as well, and it was well fleshed out. I agree that the last piece of information sealed the deal for me that Mab fixed LC and it alsoe makes perfect sense that Lea was never far away from Harry in the NN

Yep Duck pretty much had this theory word for word already.

of course I still say it was mister who fixed it.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Kuvasza on July 08, 2011, 10:39:14 PM
LC will turn out to be the major villain of the BAT!

Well, clearly!  Little Chicago and Justin both faked their deaths by fire.
They were probably in cahoots all along.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Landing on July 08, 2011, 10:42:29 PM
Yeah LC took over Marcone and is now running Chicago's under side, which is almost masturbatory when you think about it.  ;D
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: aikidoka on July 08, 2011, 10:46:18 PM
I say it was Uriel and here is why:

0: Heaven has taken an interest in Harry, allowing him to be a guardian of a Sword.
1: When Harry is about to use LC for the first time in PG, he is interrupted by a phone call from Molly, whose dad works for the home office.  Harry has stated that coincidence seems to work overtime when Heaven is involved, and that is highly coincidental.
2: Father Forthill states that he has a feeling that Harry is being prepared for something.
3: Michael also says something similar to Father Forthill at the end of PG when Harry takes responsibility for Molly.
4: In WK, Harry uses little ball of sunshine against Molly, and when discussing it with Murphy, he quotes LoTR "the burned hand teaches best"
5: In Small Favor, when Harry is in the chapel and meets Jake/Uriel, the copy of The Two Towers has "the burned hand teaches best" underlined,  which I think shows Uriel has been looking in on Harry for a while.  It could also reference Harry's hand being burned by Mavra, and how that trauma has allowed him to grow in his magic and how he approaches it.
6: Uriel says his help has been more subtle than Lucifer's
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: AcornArmy on July 08, 2011, 10:59:17 PM
Yep Duck pretty much had this theory word for word already.

of course I still say it was mister who fixed it.

Actually, not to detract from the Duck's arguments, because like I said, I think she's right, but I don't think she mentioned anything about Lea's statements in Changes, the fact the Mab was having to follow Harry around and watch over him, or that Lea's demesne was set up right across from Harry's lab. At least, not that I've seen, and I've looked up her posts involving LC. And those are what I consider to be the actual facts that make up the real evidence in favor of this theory. Means, motive, and opportunity. Until Changes, motive was in great supply, but means and opportunity were vague, with other suspects having as much of both as Mab did.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: GWPfark on July 09, 2011, 12:47:49 AM
*sigh*
At least it's something different....

Mac is Connor Macleod of the Clan Macleod after winning the gathering in 1985.

/there can be only one.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Powderkegger on July 09, 2011, 07:58:25 PM
The theory holds water, but at this point why wouldn't Mab own up to it? Harry hasn't ever asked her but it doesn't look like he's going to be investigating the occurence any time soon (since the lab is, you know, not there anymore) so I can only see the information being dropped on us at some point. Mab is all hot and bothered over Harry being the WK, so why not mention that she has saved his life before? If your theory stands true then Mab has already acheived her objective, Harry is the Winter Knight. What does she gain from secrecy now?
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: itari on July 09, 2011, 08:04:33 PM
What does she gain from secrecy now?
She doesn't give anything for free :)
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Powderkegger on July 09, 2011, 08:07:18 PM
She doesn't give anything for free :)

Well, exactly. This would be heavy-duty ammo for her "Harry, you owe me a Knighthood" campaign. I can't see any reason she wouldn't be up front about it.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: laura118b on July 09, 2011, 08:41:26 PM
Except she couldn't hold this over him at all.  If she did it, which I've always thought so too, then the whole deed was bought and paid for by Maggie.  And Mab seems much more up front than Lea about very clearly spelling out what is and is not covered by the Godmother gig.  I don't know as I think it would even occur to her to mention it.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: itari on July 09, 2011, 08:47:49 PM
Fixing LC and telling Harry who fixed LC are two different things. While the first, if Mab acted on Lea's behalf, would be a part of Maggie's original deal, the second is about information. It's all about the details.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: X on July 10, 2011, 10:32:21 PM
As Laura and itari mentioned, if it was indeed Mab that fixed Little Chicago, it was not a favor that Harry asked for, and it wasn't given to Harry.  In order for the Fey to have power over a mortal, a deal must be agreed to.  Never did Harry ask Mab to fix Little Chicago or4 agree to a deal with her, as far as we know.  Hell, its completely possible that he did in fact ask Mab to fix it and then she decided to wipe his memory of it, thus why we have no knowledge of the act.

Unless that scene plays out, Harry owes Mab nothing, except thanks.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Orbweaver on July 11, 2011, 01:42:14 AM
Lea stated in Changes that it was her role, as Harry's godmother, to protect his spiritual self. With the Sidhe, distinctions like that one are very important.

Is there any evidence to suggest that if Little Chicago had blown up, it would have affected Harry spiritually?
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on July 11, 2011, 01:48:42 AM
The theory holds water, but at this point why wouldn't Mab own up to it?

Because Mab never volunteers anything without a clear gain to be obtained for it.  "Why wouldn.t" never applies to Faerie, only "why would".
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on July 11, 2011, 01:49:56 AM
Is there any evidence to suggest that if Little Chicago had blown up, it would have affected Harry spiritually?

Not that I can think of.  Unless you count frustration over losing a tool he got some use out of and was on the whole very proud of.

Anyone want to tie this theory in with LC's apparent absence in TC ?
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: AcornArmy on July 11, 2011, 02:56:30 AM
Is there any evidence to suggest that if Little Chicago had blown up, it would have affected Harry spiritually?

Aside from being dead, I can't think of any such effect. On the other hand, in the same book, we see that Mab has kept Slate alive and has been torturing him for years, for no apparent reason other than a decision to wait until Harry accepted the position of Winter Knight before killing the traitor. According to Fix and Lily, this was detrimental to the Winter Court, yet Mab was doing it anyway.

If Harry blew himself up with Little Chicago, all of that time would have been wasted. It's possible than Mab simply used her position as Harry's temporary godmother as an excuse to do what she wanted to do, which was preserve his life. After all, in Dead Beat, once she realized that the Darkhallow preparations had begun, she told Harry, "I must do what I might to preserve your life."

I know this runs contrary to all of the many, many times when Harry was almost killed and neither Lea nor Mab ever popped out of thin air to save him. The only guess I can make is that maybe it was a matter of simple awareness. Mab was talking to him and aware of the danger to his life in DB, so she had to act to help him. Maybe she watched him in his laboratory, and when she became aware that the flaw in Little Chicago was an imminent threat to his life, she had to act to save him. Which she already had personal reasons to do, anyway. Just a guess.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Orbweaver on July 11, 2011, 03:31:57 AM
Not that I can think of.  Unless you count frustration over losing a tool he got some use out of and was on the whole very proud of.

I wasn't sure. Harry put a lot of his own thought, time, and "self" into building LC as he knew it to be accurate. 

Aside from being dead, I can't think of any such effect. On the other hand, in the same book, we see that Mab has kept Slate alive and has been torturing him for years, for no apparent reason other than a decision to wait until Harry accepted the position of Winter Knight before killing the traitor. According to Fix and Lily, this was detrimental to the Winter Court, yet Mab was doing it anyway.

I think that may have had more to do with the fact that the Sidhe cannot directly take a mortal life, although it may not have been a stretch to conclude that Mab could have set up circumstances in which Slate had no way to emerge alive (after all, Mab sent the hobs after Ivy). And I suspect her score sheet on the balance issue looks much, much different than Fix and Lily's does. I also suspect Slate's life, despite the physical and psychological torture he endured, was being put to another purpose (maintaining and/or fueling some of the magic at/around Arctis Tor.)

Quote
If Harry blew himself up with Little Chicago, all of that time would have been wasted. It's possible than Mab simply used her position as Harry's temporary godmother as an excuse to do what she wanted to do, which was preserve his life. After all, in Dead Beat, once she realized that the Darkhallow preparations had begun, she told Harry, "I must do what I might to preserve your life."

The Sidhe are bound by the letter of their agreements. Based on the statement Lea made to Harry, it sounds like Margaret only protected Harry's spirit- which means Mab would not have been able to use Margaret's deal to protect Harry's life, no matter how good her excuse was. Only his spirit. That doesn't necessarily mean she didn't have a different agreement elsewhere that allowed her to protect Harry's life, just that Margaret's deal was designed to protect him solely from spiritual attacks. Little Chicago does not fall into that category unless it was capable of harming him in more than a purely physical or psychological manner.

Quote
I know this runs contrary to all of the many, many times when Harry was almost killed and neither Lea nor Mab ever popped out of thin air to save him. The only guess I can make is that maybe it was a matter of simple awareness. Mab was talking to him and aware of the danger to his life in DB, so she had to act to help him. Maybe she watched him in his laboratory, and when she became aware that the flaw in Little Chicago was an imminent threat to his life, she had to act to save him. Which she already had personal reasons to do, anyway. Just a guess.


I believe Bob stated that Harry missed a power coupling near the stadium, which shifted the power flow around LC. Rather than having gone to the trouble of attempting to get through Harry's wards and into his basement without Bob or anyone else noticing, I think the culprit simply disabled and/or removed the actual coupling at the time Harry did his trial run.

After all, it's a lot easier to take out a power coupling than it is to go the other route. Harry's not the only one who gets into magical dust-ups, and if there was a magical battle going on in the area around the stadium at the time, the power coupling would have been one of the first things to go on the fritz. There are no shortage of entities in Chicago who need/desire darkness, and they don't even have to have been part of the supernatural community.  

The culprit for fixing LC might have done so inadvertently, which is a possibility Bob missed in his initial analysis of what happened. I don't think we can automatically point a finger at anybody.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: AcornArmy on July 11, 2011, 04:01:59 AM
I believe Bob stated that Harry missed a power coupling near the stadium, which shifted the power flow around LC. Rather than having gone to the trouble of attempting to get through Harry's wards and into his basement without Bob or anyone else noticing, I think the culprit simply disabled and/or removed the actual coupling at the time Harry did his trial run.

No, Bob didn't say that LC now matched the power flows in the real Chicago, so the problem was solved; he said that LC had a power flow set up the wrong way the last time he looked at the model, but that now, when he was looking at it, the power flow was correct. One scenario involves the real world changing but the model staying the same, while the other involves the world staying the same and model changing between one viewing and the next. If the real world had changed, Bob and Harry wouldn't have had any need to go through the part of the discussion in which they talked about how someone would've needed to get past the wards, examine Little Chicago, and realize how to fix the problem. Bob would have known the difference and we would've had an entirely different mystery to think about.

After all, it's a lot easier to take out a power coupling than it is to go the other route.

True, which is one reason that I consider the location of Lea's demesne to be a point of evidence in favor of Mab fixing the model. At any point during those nine months, Mab could have stood in Lea's garden and looked across the veil between Earth and the Nevernever, and watched Harry while he was working on it. No one else would've had that avenue of information available to them.

And I bet Mab took the opportunity to do that very thing. She has shown an unhealthy interest in Harry ever since Summer Knight. When she assumed Lea's responsibilities toward him, she was suddenly obligated to follow him around and arrange guardians for him in the Nevernever. She was already holding Slate's position open for him. I wouldn't put it past her at all to stand there in Lea's garden and watch him while he worked on Little Chicago, like some cold, creepy stalker who happened to have power on a planetary scale.

This behavior might also explain what Maeve was talking about when she said that Mab may have been contaminated with the mortal notions of good, evil, love, or something similar. From Maeve's perspective, if she didn't know about Lea's obligations or that Mab had assumed them, then it might seem as if Mab was obsessed with Harry, following him around, sometimes protecting him, and waiting for him to the detriment of the Winter Court.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: jthwilliams on July 11, 2011, 04:14:49 AM
Mac is Connor Macleod of the Clan Macleod after winning the gathering in 1985.

/there can be only one.


Mac is Rand Al'thor after surviving the last battle and travelling to a different shadow of the wheel to retire. 
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Orbweaver on July 11, 2011, 04:44:27 AM
No, Bob didn't say that LC now matched the power flows in the real Chicago, so the problem was solved; he said that LC had a power flow set up the wrong way the last time he looked at the model, but that now, when he was looking at it, the power flow was correct. One scenario involves the real world changing but the model staying the same, while the other involves the world staying the same and model changing between one viewing and the next. If the real world had changed, Bob and Harry wouldn't have had any need to go through the part of the discussion in which they talked about how someone would've needed to get past the wards, examine Little Chicago, and realize how to fix the problem. Bob would have known the difference and we would've had an entirely different mystery to think about.

Proven Guilty, page 471, paperback:

"I found something wrong with Little Chicago's design." I swallowed. "Oh. Wow. Bad?" "Extremely. We missed a transition coupling in the power flow. The stored energy was all going to the same spot." "That's ... like a surge of electricity going through a circuit breaker, right? Or a fuse box." "Exactly like that," Bob said. "Except that you were the fuse. That much energy in one spot will blow your head off your shoulders." "But it didn't." I said. "But it didn't," Bob agreed. "How is that possible?" "It isn't," he said. "Someone fixed it." "What? Are you sure?" "It didn't fix itself," Bob said. "When I looked at it a few nights ago, the flawed section was in plain sight, even if I didn't recognize it at the time. When I looked at it again tonight, it was different. Someone changed it." "In my lab? Under my house? Which is behind my wards? That's impossible." "No it isn't," Bob said. "Just really, really, really, really, really, really difficult. And unlikely."

The issue that I'm taking with Bob's statement is that he never stated where the transition coupling was at on LC. Kind of odd, considering that he's the one who brought up the conversation. Altering the power flow out in the real world so as not to have Dresden blow his head off his shoulders, even if it was only a momentary alteration, would have been much easier as opposed to someone going into Harry's subbasement. And Bob knows that. Bob being locked in Harry's basement doesn't exactly lend itself to his noticing a momentary flux in the power flows around the city, ya know? After all, Bob didn't notice the mishap until a few nights later- even though he saw it hiding in plain sight the first time he looked at it- so he therefore wouldn't have been looking for any shifts in the power flows around the city to begin with. (Simply put, whomever kept Dresden from going kablooey acted by momentarily taking the circumstance out of the cards, rather than risk a fix in front of Bob.)

On top of that, we have Bob stating that in all likelihood, no one did get into Harry's basement to fix the issue. It was fixed elsewhere first, and in the basement after the trial run.

I've also generally found that the either/or principle applies when we have all the information. We don't know why Bob missed the transitioner, even though he said he could see it.

As for how someone else knew LC was messed up- if they were running their own version, they probably noticed when all those small chinks and nicks appeared in the buildings, roads, etc. and took care to fix the model, lest they end up having to fix a much, much bigger problem.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: AcornArmy on July 11, 2011, 05:03:30 AM
On top of that, we have Bob stating that in all likelihood, no one did get into Harry's basement to fix the issue. It was fixed elsewhere first, and in the basement after the trial run.

But during the conversation you quoted, Harry didn't even know there was a problem until Bob told him so at that moment. So Harry didn't fix the model. And Bob is telling him that the model was broken a couple of days ago, but it's fixed now, during their conversation. So it still wasn't Harry who fixed it, because he didn't even know there was a problem, and Bob apparently still didn't see the fix happen.

As far as I can see, your theory doesn't eliminate the need for someone other than Harry or Bob to fix the model, it only adds the potential mystery that someone could have altered the flow in Chicago itself so that using LC wouldn't kill Harry. Which would be a novel approach-- especially since they apparently had to enter his lab anyway to fix Little Chicago, too.

Still, it would be kinda neat if that's what happened.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: laura118b on July 11, 2011, 05:22:34 AM
Lea stated in Changes that it was her role, as Harry's godmother, to protect his spiritual self. With the Sidhe, distinctions like that one are very important.

Is there any evidence to suggest that if Little Chicago had blown up, it would have affected Harry spiritually?
Yes, but Changes is the first time that is spelled out.  In SK Lea makes it pretty clear she's agreed to protect Harry's life, and then points out the old neighbor "calling the cops" and the sirens outside of Wal-Mart as two times she's done it.  In DB Mab gives Harry the info to try to save his life because Lea has to aid him.  And I think magically blowing one's head off counts as needing help from someone who can fix it. :D
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: AcornArmy on July 11, 2011, 08:13:29 AM
Lea stated in Changes that it was her role, as Harry's godmother, to protect his spiritual self. With the Sidhe, distinctions like that one are very important.

Is there any evidence to suggest that if Little Chicago had blown up, it would have affected Harry spiritually?

Actually, something just occurred to me: Mab is the Queen of Air and Darkness, etc. etc. She's the ruler of one of the most powerful supernatural groups in existence. Is there some reason that she couldn't step over and tweak a magical construct if she felt like it? Some rule that would prevent her from doing so, if the urge took her?

I know she can't kill a mortal directly, at least one that's not connected to one of the Courts, but by fixing Little Chicago she'd be doing the opposite, so that restriction wouldn't come into play. And even if it did, until Harry performs his last favor for her, he literally belongs to her. She said as much in Small Favor, and proved it by causing him to move a few steps away without remembering it or intending to do so. Mab could harm Harry if she chose.

But that may be incidental, because I can't think of any reason Mab couldn't just cross over and mess with LC any time she felt like it, regardless of Harry's metaphysical link to her. Can anyone else think of a reason Mab couldn't mess with the model if she wanted to?
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: derrick on July 11, 2011, 08:31:42 AM
But that may be incidental, because I can't think of any reason Mab couldn't just cross over and mess with LC any time she felt like it, regardless of Harry's metaphysical link to her. Can anyone else think of a reason Mab couldn't mess with the model if she wanted to?


No.  Just wanted to add that Mab owns Harry's 'life, fortune, and future'...and I remember another statement of 'blood, bone, and breath' or something similar.  So, from that perspective, Mab wasn't messing with Harry's model of Chicago.  Mab was fixing her Little Chicago that she let [her] Harry build and keep in his apartment...that Mab let him live in.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on July 11, 2011, 02:10:22 PM
Actually, something just occurred to me: Mab is the Queen of Air and Darkness, etc. etc. She's the ruler of one of the most powerful supernatural groups in existence. Is there some reason that she couldn't step over and tweak a magical construct if she felt like it? Some rule that would prevent her from doing so, if the urge took her?]

Harry's wards and threshold ?
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Arjan on July 11, 2011, 03:09:38 PM
Harry's wards and threshold ?
And not just breaking them but leaving no traces at all.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on July 11, 2011, 03:13:39 PM
And not just breaking them but leaving no traces at all.

I still think our best bet, whoever did the actual fixing, is that they came in via Murph or Thomas' amulets and were allowed through the wards.

The pool of people who could convince Murph or Thomas of this seems small; the pool who could magically manipulate them into doing this is basically anyone Senior Council strength or stronger that we have seen or heard of, IMO.  Who are also good candidates for having foresight or intellectus enough to see that an unfixed LC was a problem in the first place.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: knnn on July 11, 2011, 03:24:04 PM
Remember also that in "Backup" we've seen that Bob is willing to lie to Harry if it's in his good interest, so if someone said to Bob:

"I will show you where there's a fatal bug in your Chicago software if you swear not to tell Harry who did it", he probably would have agreed.

His subsequent "someone changed LC" could be the best he can do given this oath - it's a warning that the basement security is breachable.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: sjsharks on July 11, 2011, 04:10:59 PM
I didn't read most of the posts here, but I think I know why mab didn't let anyone know if she did it. If Harry knew she had messed with it he wouldnt touch it because of 1 scary winter queen sabotage or 2 if she did fix it he would owe her yet another favor
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: laura118b on July 11, 2011, 05:33:38 PM
Harry's wards and threshold ?
Ah, but that was before he and we knew about the easy access through his workshop. And being a different level, indeed not converted into living space like the rest of the apartment, I don't know as the threshold would count for it.  Not to mention I still don't see Lea or Mab having problems crossing the threshold if it was in the godmother line of duty.

Plus crossing the threshold stips a person of most of their power, I can still see Mab having enough left over to fix LC no problem.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: knnn on July 11, 2011, 05:48:04 PM
FWIW, the fact that all those little folk can come in and clean his apartment whenever they like (and remember that he didn't give express permission the first time they came around and did it), indicates to me that pretty his ward aren't all that proof from faerie.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Joefoe on July 11, 2011, 07:19:28 PM
not to mention lea was behind his threshold and had enough juice to put susan and martn to sleep. Actually that may be another bit of information that Jim referenced and we had not picked up on. The fact that Lea was in Harry's apartment uninvited and seemed to not have any problems from his wards or threshold
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: laura118b on July 11, 2011, 07:26:44 PM
not to mention lea was behind his threshold and had enough juice to put susan and martn to sleep. Actually that may be another bit of information that Jim referenced and we had not picked up on. The fact that Lea was in Harry's apartment uninvited and seemed to not have any problems from his wards or threshold
Ummm, no wards anymore at that point, and no threshold since well no door.  All that was post FBI.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: knnn on July 11, 2011, 07:28:09 PM
yah, but this was after the FBI had blown through it and trashed the place.  Also, he had forcibly and crudely disabled his wards by that time, so they wouldn't be a factor.

Edit:  Mentioned already.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: AcornArmy on July 11, 2011, 08:57:25 PM
Harry's wards and threshold ?

The wards: I've been looking, and I can't find anything to say whether or not Harry's wards would affect someone coming into his home from the Nevernever. If they're set up around the physical structure of the building, they may not. Harry once said that he had wards around the door and windows, but even if they completely surrounded his apartment, they might not cover entrance from the spirit world. Prior to Changes, we've never seen any travel from one side to the other while in Harry's house, so there hasn't been much commentary to go on.

The threshold: A threshold wouldn't stop Mab. Even if it killed 99% of her power, she would probably still have more than enough left to stomp Harry into the dirt, which would be more than enough to fix Little Chicago. And Harry's threshold has never been stellar to begin with. It would not be an impediment to her if she chose to enter his lab.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: knnn on July 11, 2011, 09:05:53 PM
The wards: I've been looking, and I can't find anything to say whether or not Harry's wards would affect someone coming into his home from the Nevernever. If they're set up around the physical structure of the building, they may not. Harry once said that he had wards around the door and windows, but even if they completely surrounded his apartment, they might not cover entrance from the spirit world. Prior to Changes, we've never seen any travel from one side to the other while in Harry's house, so there hasn't been much commentary to go on.

Didn't they leave from the top floor of Harry's flat in GP, during the attempted infiltration of Bianca's place?
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: sjsharks on July 11, 2011, 09:24:25 PM
Didn't they leave from the top floor of Harry's flat in GP, during the attempted infiltration of Bianca's place?

I think it was just outside the front door
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: AcornArmy on July 11, 2011, 09:29:56 PM
Didn't they leave from the top floor of Harry's flat in GP, during the attempted infiltration of Bianca's place?

That's true, they did. I had completely forgotten about that. The area across from Harry's top floor looked exactly like his top floor, except cleaner. And then they came out into a spirit-world version of Chicago.

Hrm. That doesn't really help much with the question of wards, though.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: BlahBlah on July 11, 2011, 11:30:20 PM
I have also suggested that Mab fixed LC: 

"Mab would probably have the means to recognize the problem in LC.  Mab was motived to protect her future knight because she had assumed Lea's responsibilities in PG.  Finally, Mab had the opportunity to enter and exit Harry's apartment from the NN through Lea's garden."

The only other possibilities imo is Lash working with Id-Harry, else that Harry knew and helped it get fixed but suffered one of his peculiar blackouts and can't remember it.  Neither is nearly as plausible as Mab.

Great minds think alike AA!
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: tinygargoyle on July 11, 2011, 11:48:32 PM
I have two theories about this.
1) LC == Chicago proper, so it's possible that something happened in Chicago that affected it.
2) As Harry had put so much juice into it and effort in maintaining it, it has a ghost of it's own. lash, Bob and many others have mentioned that to see things outside of the flow in time he has to die. Now ghost Harry interacts with ghost LC now and this affects LC then.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: BlahBlah on July 11, 2011, 11:54:43 PM
We don't, but I suggest you read Codex Alera.
(click to show/hide)

A continent, Chicago ain't.  LC =/= Alera by any stretch.

If Harry decides to recreate it on a grander scale, however, then all bets are off.

He has a gift for this ind of work, ala Bob.  And he has the workers to bring him the necessary ingredients, ala Wee Folk.  And he has the experience, ala LC.  

Little World, anyone?  Purely speculation, alas.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: X on July 14, 2011, 07:29:53 AM
So I have had this thought festering in my head for the past little while, and while I doubt this theory, it gives us a discussion while we wait for Ghost Story.  Now among all the beings we know of with interest in Harry, we need to think of those with both the ability and desire to prevent Harry from frying his brain.  Of those, I submit the following:
Mab
Lasciel
Uriel
Ivy/The Archive

Okay, the easiest to eliminate from these beings is Uriel, because he is only allowed to interfere so much, and he gave Harry the ability to use Soulfire (presumably). If he did or did not is a discussion for another thread. So, strike Riel from the list of suspects.

The next suspect that I can eliminate us Ivy/ The Archive.  Why would Ivy wan to help Harry? Affection, knowledge of him being needed in the future? Who knows.  The ability to fix it would require an insane amount of power, which she has.  The reason for that is that she is completely neutral, and an arbiter of The Accords.  Thus, evn though Ivy would have the desire to help Harry, The Archive can presumably override Ivy, thus the suspect is eliminated.

Now I will try to eliminate Mab.  The reason why I doubt that Mab would fix it is not because of her desire to have Harry as her Knight, but rather why would she? She is Mab, to her, a simple human is nothing, and she could easily allow Harry to blow up his mind, fix him, then say he owes her.  Thus, it stands to reason that she could potentially benefit from Harry blowing up his mind.

Finally, that leaves Lasciel. This immortal being was bound in Harry's basement, less than ten feet from Little Chicago.  I realize that she was bound within several circles, but she is a Denerian, and if there is any being in the Dresdenverese that is allowed to cheat, it would be one of them.  This gives her the opportunity, and finally, the motive would be that a Fallen Angel must be voluntarily accepted by the mortal soul.  If Harry cannot function or freely make the choice choice.  If Harry is brain dead, then Lasciel can't take him over, furthermore, his death means that she is trapped for a pretty long time in the subbasement of a paranoid wizard with some pretty heavy wards protecting it. 

Thoughts?
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: itari on July 14, 2011, 08:40:17 AM
Now I will try to eliminate Mab.  The reason why I doubt that Mab would fix it is not because of her desire to have Harry as her Knight, but rather why would she? She is Mab, to her, a simple human is nothing, and she could easily allow Harry to blow up his mind, fix him, then say he owes her.  Thus, it stands to reason that she could potentially benefit from Harry blowing up his mind.
Well, if Harry had killed himself using a flawed model, he wouldn't have been useful to Mab. And don't forget that while Lea was encased in ice, Mab had to fulfill her obligations.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: AcornArmy on July 14, 2011, 09:23:20 AM
Well, if Harry had killed himself using a flawed model, he wouldn't have been useful to Mab. And don't forget that while Lea was encased in ice, Mab had to fulfill her obligations.

Plus, as inexplicable as it is, we have Mab's literal word in Dead Beat, when she realizes that the Darkhallow is close to being cast, that she must do what she can to preserve Harry's life. I've pointed this out before in this thread, but I guess people don't really know what to make of it, since most people tend to completely overlook that instance of Mab's behavior.

The only thing I can think of that might reconcile her statement with the many, many times in which neither she nor Lea have appeared to save Harry or give him vital information is to guess that it may have something to do with their awareness of Harry's imminent peril. Maybe if they're aware of it, they have to do something about it, but if they aren't certain, they're off the hook.

If that guess should happen to be correct, then maybe Mab checked in on Harry while he was working on Little Chicago at some point, and noticed the flaw in the model. This could have forced her per Lea's bargain to do something to help.

Of course, the other reasons might have done just as well to motivate her. And regarding X's statement that Harry is just some mortal, so why bother saving him-- well, in that case, why bother weakening the Winter Court by keeping Slate nailed to a tree for ten years, or close to it? If Mab was willing to make an effort to acquire Harry which could be felt and noticed by everyone in Faerie, then popping over to tweak Harry's model when no one was looking seems like a ridiculously small step to take by comparison.


ETA: ...in fact, now that I think about it, Mab's behavior toward Harry is so eye-catching that I kind of wonder if it might not be a distraction of some kind. But... nah.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on July 14, 2011, 01:01:37 PM
Plus, as inexplicable as it is, we have Mab's literal word in Dead Beat, when she realizes that the Darkhallow is close to being cast, that she must do what she can to preserve Harry's life. I've pointed this out before in this thread, but I guess people don't really know what to make of it, since most people tend to completely overlook that instance of Mab's behavior.

The only thing I can think of that might reconcile her statement with the many, many times in which neither she nor Lea have appeared to save Harry or give him vital information is to guess that it may have something to do with their awareness of Harry's imminent peril. Maybe if they're aware of it, they have to do something about it, but if they aren't certain, they're off the hook.

I'm inclined to think Mab is not just aware of any time Harry is in peril,  she's aware of it with enough accuracy to know whether it needs her intervention or not; up to the very end of Changes, he gets through all those times, so her intervention arguably was not needed in any of them.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: AcornArmy on July 14, 2011, 01:22:20 PM
I'm inclined to think Mab is not just aware of any time Harry is in peril,  she's aware of it with enough accuracy to know whether it needs her intervention or not; up to the very end of Changes, he gets through all those times, so her intervention arguably was not needed in any of them.

Then her surprise over the Word of Kemmler and the necromancers would've had to have been feigned, in Dead Beat. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't see why she would bother with such a minor deception-- unless the point was to prevent Harry from understanding how intense her scrutiny of him was.

I don't know, I tend to distrust theories which require deceptions to be several layers deep, on the principle that it's too big a pain in the ass for most sane people to want to deal with, including writers.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: laura118b on July 14, 2011, 09:11:31 PM
Not if viewed in the same way as the Gatekeeper and Harry on Demonreach.  If Mab could keep tract of the most likely outcome then she'd know her help wasn't needed.  But if the Word was shielded in some way, which doesn't seem a stretch given the players involved, then things would have changed rapidly.  Just like when the Gatekeeper changed his opinion when Harry stepped onto the island instead of the dock. 
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on July 14, 2011, 10:52:15 PM
Then her surprise over the Word of Kemmler and the necromancers would've had to have been feigned, in Dead Beat.

I don't think that's feigned; I think it's the first sin of her incipient insanity/possession by an Outsider.

Quote
I don't know, I tend to distrust theories which require deceptions to be several layers deep, on the principle that it's too big a pain in the ass for most sane people to want to deal with, including writers.

There seems to be an audience for it, though. Anthony Price and Dorothy Dunnett come to mind, both of whom sold rather well when they were active.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: AcornArmy on July 14, 2011, 11:24:35 PM
Not if viewed in the same way as the Gatekeeper and Harry on Demonreach.  If Mab could keep tract of the most likely outcome then she'd know her help wasn't needed.  But if the Word was shielded in some way, which doesn't seem a stretch given the players involved, then things would have changed rapidly.  Just like when the Gatekeeper changed his opinion when Harry stepped onto the island instead of the dock. 

That's a good point. The perceivable future could have rapidly opened up into new, and likely, possibilities while Mab was standing there talking to Harry.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: RenDarkz on July 17, 2011, 02:32:32 AM
Personally i think Lash repaired little Chicago by moving her soul into it, so LC=Lash's new body, so in effect LC is now sentient and as such escaped the buildings destruction by moving itself away from the building. just a thought :D

but on another note i do think LC survived his apartment being destroyed even if only because someone stole it somehow or the same person who "repaired" it built in a teleport or shielding feature to protect harry's creation from destruction.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: Landing on July 17, 2011, 02:34:41 AM
Personally i think Lash repaired little Chicago by moving her soul into it, so LC=Lash's new body, so in effect LC is now sentient and as such escaped the buildings destruction by moving itself away from the building. just a thought :D

but on another note i do think LC survived his apartment being destroyed even if only because someone stole it somehow or the same person who "repaired" it built in a teleport or shielding feature to protect harry's creation from destruction.

We have WoJ that it was destroyed.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: OZ on July 17, 2011, 04:30:23 AM
Quote
Unless, of course, Harry himself did it.

After having read the GS sample chapters, I am taking another look at this theory.
(click to show/hide)
This is not a strong theory yet but it looks more interesting to me than it did before the sample chapters.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: RenDarkz on July 17, 2011, 02:13:01 PM
We have WoJ that it was destroyed.
one can dream one can dream. I'll miss you sentient LC.
Title: Re: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS)
Post by: AcornArmy on July 17, 2011, 03:21:54 PM
one can dream one can dream. I'll miss you sentient LC.

Screw the LC, what I miss is that sweet-looking new circle he had made. Braided rings of copper, silver, and iron, each with their own set of engraved runes to empower them. It sounded like it was basically a Greater Circle that had been braided together to make a single ring. That's just awesome. And he never even had the chance to use it. Or at least, not for anything special, and a circle like that practically cries out to be used to summon Cthulhu or the Erlking or something.

And yeah, I know, the last thing Harry needs is to get the Erlking even more pissed at him. :P *grumblegrumble*