I checked the calendar, and it's not April 1st... :-)
The more I read it the more I think Jim is gas lighting us
... The more I read it the more I think Jim is gas lighting us
Its hard to believe that Morgan knew that there was a conspiracy against the council and could name the players and he wasn't taking actions against them. ... a lot of the secrets that harry has been keeping from his allies are not as secure as he thinks.Morgan knew the Council had been infiltrated. He was taking action. He didn't know who was behind it. "Until I am certain where to lay the blame for LaFortier’s death (his lack of knowledge), I will seek his assistance (action he's taking because of it)." He's keeping secrets from people who are extremely unlikely to have any idea about Nemesis. Butters might through Bob. Which might explain why he has been so suspicious of Harry.
From then on, we could not be sure that the child was not molded to be a creature of Nemesis.
Here is the thing. We know that Jim used the words adversary and nemesis to set us off. The question is did Morgan know what he was referring to. Up until his death he was yelling at Dresden that there was no black council even while he was being set up by it.
There’s little time, and far too much to say. I am losing blood and my thoughts wander when I must be concise.This is an interesting passage.
I suppose it’s possible that Malcolm’s death was natural, but given this child’s ongoing misfortune it seems clear to me that he has been marked with an Adversary from the moment of his birth.Did Morgan think that Harry was nemfected from birth? Something like this comes up in Turn Coat when Rashid goes to stop Harry at the island. He examines Harry with the crystal eye that he uses at the gate. So the we could refer to Rashid, and Rashid ponders the wisdom of killing Harry outright.
I arrived less than ten hours after the child went into the foster care system, and someone made him vanish. Magically, physically, bureaucratically.Harry's disappearance carries a whiff of what happened to Molly later. Somebody reached in to the system and manipulated a child to use as a tool.
From then on, we could not be sure that the child was not molded to be a creature of Nemesis.This sounds like what was feared was a powerful wizard raised as a killer, possibly one with a nemfection. Consider what the coins do for mortals. This from Lea in Ghost Story.
Quite. Because convincing a young mortal to believe that it is right and proper to use magic for violence is a delicate process and one that cannot be rushed.The we may refer to Eb. Eb had seen Malcolm alive, implying that he knew about Harry. It may also refer to Rashid.
I will seek his assistance. Given who he is, he will have little choice but to give it.
I don't think I've ever had so many questions over of such a short story.Also Avernite's questions. Such a revelation and so many questions.(click to show/hide)
@Mira: https://www.jim-butcher.com/posts/2020/morgan-microfiction-rpg-art-and-more (https://www.jim-butcher.com/posts/2020/morgan-microfiction-rpg-art-and-more)
I had a slightly different reaction than Navis to finding out that Harry was hidden 4 years before Justin ever adopted him. Malcom died when Harry was 6. Harry was 10 when Justin adopted him. Harry kills Justin at 16 and is almost immediately found. Morgan says "Justin DuMorne got to him before I could." I'm fairly certain that Morgan thinks DuMorne was the one who hid Harry. Morgan could have been mistaken. Assuming he was correct, DuMorne hid Harry for 10 years and left him in the foster system for four years. Probably so that Harry would be appropriately grateful for being rescued.
Seems there are more similarities between Harry Dresden and Harry Potter than I ever thought. ;) Morgan kinda-sorta is Severus Snape to Harry.
“You,” I asked, “and Morgan?”Now for this passage from Morgans Journal.
She was quiet for a moment before she said, “I never allowed it to happen. It wasn’t fair to him.”
“But he wanted it anyway,” I said.
She nodded.
“Hell’s bells,” I sighed.
She folded her arms over her stomach, never looking up. “Was it any different with your apprentice, Harry?”
I haven’t kept this journal since my seventies. I only started it because I thought it would make a good impression on Anastasia, who I presume will be reading this entry.Rereading this I'm assuming that he speaks of two people, the Anastasia that was, when he was an apprentice, and Luccio the women he knows today, who is in a different body. It's making me craaaazy.
I will spare you the schoolboy platitudes, my teacher. My old friend. Though you have never said it, I have always known that you have always known my heart.
Since Margaret supposedly was under sentence herself because of her crimes.. Why would Morgan promise to take care of her child?Because Harry was born to be a weapon, and it's why the Council fears him. This is established in Summer Knight when Martha Liberty tells Eb "you know what he was meant to be".
Rereading this I'm assuming that he speaks of two people, the Anastasia that was, when he was an apprentice, and Luccio the women he knows today, who is in a different body. It's making me craaaazy.
Because Harry was born to be a weapon, and it's why the Council fears him. This is established in Summer Knight when Martha Liberty tells Eb "you know what he was meant to be".Yes, that line makes more sense now. However by the same token if the Council knew that Harry was born to be a weapon, how come they totally dropped the ball from his birth to Justin's death and his arrest... Further, why even bother with a trial?
But if it's your gun, then you can use it. This would be sufficient context for keeping Harry alive. That and his Grandfather has carte-blanche to murder you if you try to kill his grandson. And one thought cascades to another. Sean Connery as Eb.Or not, guard dogs can turn on their master.. I've gotten the impression that few on the Council even knew that Margaret was Eb's daughter and even fewer outside of Rashid, knew that Harry was his grandson.. Martha Liberty's line suggests that she didn't know the truth..
...
Now, if Jim ever shows a flashback where a giant man on a motorcycle approaches Harry at the orphanage and tells him "Yer a Wizard, 'arry!".... ;D
To be clear, when I speak of two Anastasia's I'm pointing out a writers device, where one character is treated as two, in this case the love he couldn't have, and the friend she became. And since I believe Jim is devious, I believe it is an attempt at obfuscation.
... And you know what I am thinking? Ivy knows what Morgan wrote. So, what if she is becoming wary of Dresden herself? Or, on the other hand, why if she decides to try to help in some subtle ways ...
Since Margaret supposedly was under a death sentence herself because of her crimes ...
... Why was the child Harry so difficult to trace until Justin came on the scene and adopted him?
... Given everything that surrounded Margaret's death, why didn't he look into Malcolm's more closely? ...
... If Morgan thought that Harry was truly infected, why didn't he just give him the chop when he was under the Doom? ...
... He also knew very well that Luccio had murdered LaFortier, he covered for her and that is why they were after him in Turn Coat. Also he was instantly on the run when that happened, so when did he have time to make a journal entry? ...
There is no indication he loved Maggie. And he treats Harry like an unexploded bomb.
... Really? I totally understood that from the letter ...We don't get very MUCH Morgan/Maggie from the letter. He seems to have held her in somewhat higher regard than many others did... he didn't call her "LeFey" or a "warlock" or any other disparaging term; OTOH, he did call her by the full/formal "Margaret" rather than "Maggie" or another familiar shortening. He held her in high-enough regard to promise to protect her child (and how and when did she get him to promise that???!? Was it a dying request? A bargain from earlier? Or, yes, a promise to a beloved? We really don't know... ) .
Actually, he knew Luccio didn't kill LaFortier. He knew that Luccio was somebody's tool, a mind-thrall used to kill LaFortier... in other words, just another victim (but one custom-made to take the fall, and to disrupt the WC).
I presume he looked into the matter as closely as he could. He was "on mission" when Malcom died, there was likely at least one Sunrise to wash away magical traces.
We know she was on the Warden's "watchlist."
But I didn't think she had ever been convicted of Lawbreaking, or gotten any death sentence (at least, not from the WC) ... ? Being on a watchlist is VERY different than being under a death sentence!
Morgan didn't think Harry is infected.
Morgan feared Harry might be infected.
But in the end, Morgan couldn't quite bring himself to execute a child (and then a very-young man) who kept showing he DID have the self-restraint to avoid using black magic, every time he got pushed or tempted that direction.Someone innocent you mean... Morgan didn't have a problem lopping off heads of young people, the Korean Kid, he was about to lop off Molly's head on the Merlin's command.
But even "on the run," Morgan would have had moments of downtime, periods where he was bandaging, eating, drinking, resting, etc. He was using the Summer Boon to be safe from all scrying, after all. And he evidently thought that his thoughts and conclusions on "the Dresden Situation" were of tactical or strategic importance to Luccio and any other allies, so it was a priority to get them down in writing (all too likely he'd die being captured!).
We don't get very MUCH Morgan/Maggie from the letter. He seems to have held her in somewhat higher regard than many others did... he didn't call her "LeFey" or a "warlock" or any other disparaging term; OTOH, he did call her by the full/formal "Margaret" rather than "Maggie" or another familiar shortening. He held her in high-enough regard to promise to protect her child (and how and when did she get him to promise that???!? Was it a dying request? A bargain from earlier? Or, yes, a promise to a beloved? We really don't know... ) .This just doesn't make any sense to me based on whats in all of the books.. Rashid makes sense
Morgan mentions nothing about Lord Raith, who fathered Thomas with her; nor about Malcom, who fathered Harry (in contrast to Snape, who seemed obsessed with James Potter). Morgan was (intentionally) stress-testing Harry, trying to see if he'd show hidden signs of Nemesis or Black Magic. Snape was (without even seeming to realize it) taking his hatred & resentment of James out on Harry.Nothing about stress testing him because he feared that Harry was infected.. You'd think that might
@g33k The point is not Harry's heart. He could be a good person and still become something terrible against his will. Remember Harry himself dreads that... So it is not a problem of what Ivy knows about Harry being a good man but about what he could become ...
I will spare you the schoolboy platitudes, my teacher. My old friend. Though you have never said it, I have always known that you have always known my heart.I'm pretty sure this is directed to Luccio. And my interpretation is that "we" is definitely Morgan and Luccio, but probably Morgan, Luccio, and others.
From then on, we could not be sure that the child was not molded to be a creature of Nemesis.As has been pointed out, this only shows that Morgan believed that Harry could have been under the influence of Nemesis; it does not show that Morgan believes Harry could have been infected. All that said, the only evidence we've seen that indicates mortals can't be infected is that Nemesis gives fairies mortal abilities.
Rereading this I'm assuming that he speaks of two people, the Anastasia that was, when he was an apprentice, and Luccio the women he knows today, who is in a different body. It's making me craaaazy.
I am losing blood and my thoughts wander.He's not being entirely coherent. He's talking to himself, and then starts addressing Anastasia directly. Or at least that's my read.
She [Margaret] was guilty of violating the First law, among other ... . The Wardens were under orders to arrest her on sight. ... I had orders regarding her as well.Blood Rites Ch. 35. She hadn't been tried yet, but Eb said she would have been executed if caught. After Harry asks "What happened?" Eb goes into her meeting Justin and her death.
While Luccio may have sympathized/protected him, he already knew an "enemy" had "invaded the Senior Council itself."I don't think we can time stamp that to when Harry disappeared.
Hm, I bet he was desperate enough to risk the note falling into the wrong hands. But, but, the question now is, will Harry or another character get to read this at some point?
@Mira: What makes you say "nobody on the Council seems to know what it [Nemesis] is or that it even exists. Rashid said as much in Cold Days." Morgan and "we" clearly know.
He gestured toward the battleground. "Precisely." He seemed to think about it for a moment, and then nodded. "I will do what I can. If we both survive the next several hours, I will settle matters between you and the Council,which knows only as much about our roles as it needs to--and that isn't much
The thing is, Harry has shown an extraordinary degree of stubbornness about this sort of thing. Lash testified that it was unique. Nic (and Anduriel!!!?!) both expected the Shadow to still be inside Harry, ready to immobilize him at a word. Even if she had been there, I think Lash wouldn't have: she was Harry's friend Lash, and no longer Lasciel's Shadow.
At the Shedd, Ivy witnessed him penetrate the Denarian plot, call a warning, and fight against ALL the Denarians (when he knew he'd be overmatched)... and then come back to fight another round, and rescue her.
Cold calculation as an Archive (of Harry-the-potential-Destroyer) may be at war with Ivy-the-girl (who experiences Harry as warm, kind, heroic beyond all expectations, and persistently able to resist both tempting lures and vast coercive pressures to turn to the Dark Side).
It's now well after Morgan wrote that entry, of course, but the theme persists...
I think Mab is an active and knowing participant, intentionally tempering Harry to resist "becoming" something terrible against his own will. Where Harry perceives her as trying to bend him to her will, turn him "into a thug" (and he feels the need to show her "why he isn't one" and "why she shouldn't do it") and keeps throwing Hot&Sexy babes at him, placing him in situations to tempt him into rage, lust, other darkling Winter passions... what she's actually doing is tempering him, making him more and more able to resist being turned into something he would despair being.
She wants him to be terrible, yes; but within the limits of his own will. Terrible, but also terribly self-controlled.
@Dina: The journal entry is clearly written before Turn Coat.
Dina - Even if they take Harry's will, they can never make him do anything he doesn't actually want to do. They can coerce and pressure and torture and trick and even play puppet master, but they can not change his will. I think Harry could never become what they want without some part of him wanting it.I agree, because I am a reader and Harry is the main character. Ivy does not know that, so she may have some doubts, even when g33k is right about how Ivy "the girl" probably has enough faith in him.
Mira - the Council only knows as much as it needs to. Not necessarily everyone in it. I would say that several members, definitely the Merlin and probably Mai, LtW, Eb and Liberty all know bits about his role. Probably a hell of a lot more than most of the entire Council. No idea about LaFortier or Pietrovich but I would be willing to bet they knew a bit. You don't get to the Senior Council without acquiring a hell of a lot of knowledge. Not saying they all know the same bits, but probably a fair bit between them. Plus any other similarly senior Wizards like Klaus the Toymaker, Luccio etc.
Also, I understand what you are saying about how it doesn't seem to make sense with our previous information. Probably because there are deliberate holes. But also because we mostly see things from Harry's perspective. Morgan might look quite different from those who respected him. Not to mention, this is probably relatively new material. I would expect there to be some contrast between it and a book written several years ago, with elements that have come to light that might be entirely new that were not decided at the time of TC. It's meant to cast new light on things, not blend in.
The motivating action of Turn Coat, La Fortiers murder, happens off text and before the journal entry.
Right. Like, did he succeed at passing it off to Luccio when he saw her? I don't actually remember whether they were alone together off page in TC. Would it have passed to LtW or Mai when he was taken into custody?
No doubt that he knew Margaret. At least in the sense that you know a target. Almost certainly she didn't end up on the Wardens to do list overnight. And nowhere does it imply that he liked her. And the only Senior Council member that we have certain knowledge that they were aware of Harry's connection to Eb is Rashid. Unless I'm missing something.You don't promise to keep someone's child safe if you don't like them. Rashid says there were several of Eb's friends who knew Eb's connection to Margaret. However it seems like Rashid had a special bond with Margaret, and given the time he has pulled Harry's chestnuts out of the fire, he also has a good idea about why she conceived Harry.
The story strengthens the possibility that Elaine is Nemfected (or is a Nemfector). Morgan's letter associates DuMorne with Nemesis, which associates Elaine with the Adversary as well. So was it that Elaine was enthralled or was she successfully Nemfected? Furthermore, was it Elaine that Nemfected Aurora?
You don't promise to keep someone's child safe if you don't like them.You do if they cut a deal. Something for Something. We even have a program that is well known for doing precisely that. The Witness Protection Program.
Trying to help clarify. The journal entry is written during the events of Turn Coat but before Morgan knocks on Harry's door. The motivating action of Turn Coat, La Fortiers murder, happens off text and before the journal entry.
I'm betting that Morgan hid it (maybe in the storage-locker where Harry had set up his safehouse?), rather than "passing it off."
It's also possible that he hid it in whatever location he wrote it (before he showed up at Harry's basement).
I'm torn between thinking it's hidden somewhere that Harry will inevitably find it, and hidden such that Harry never will (we know Jim writes some Dresdenverse stuff that's never going to enter Harry's consciousness).
2. He promised to protect Margaret’s son? Why? We have had no indications that they knew each other, though I think they may be of approximately the same age. If that is the case than we can assume he also knew Justin well as well. I think Jim has a thing (which may be accurate) about people of an age grouping together. Ebenezer has known the Merlin since he was 16, and it sounds like Eb, the Merlin, and Listens to Winds probably ran all over for and against each other in the war of 1812. There seems to be a coterie of people Maggie’s age, and we know the new wardens all hang as a group. Only Harry is pretty much out on his own, which is well explained.
3. He couldn’t find Dresden? Had he not taken any samples before he disappeared to be able to find him? If he hadn’t it seems like he was remarkably stupid in his attempts to protect Harry. If so, and they didn’t work, it indicates there are even more things Harry doesn’t know, since he seems to feel blood is a unpreventable connection method.
I'm not convinced Morgan read it right in assessing Justin was responsible for hiding Harry in the foster system and only picked him up when he manifested talent, either.Harry ended up with Justin, so he either put him there or knew who had. And the Fae would have been able to shield him, that has been demonstrated. And Lea had promised to protect him because of some obligation. Seems kinda odd that she was on vacation from that obligation for years.
Harry ended up with Justin, so he either put him there or knew who had. And the Fae would have been able to shield him, that has been demonstrated. And Lea had promised to protect him because of some obligation. Seems kinda odd that she was on vacation from that obligation for years.
If I gambled I would put money down on Lea as Malcolm's killer. That's a vague intuition. I would put another bet on Lara . Or some combination of the two. One could have shielded Harry magically, the other may have hooks into the government even then. Your plot, if true would dictate it. Mab was probably not involved.I wouldn't just put Lea up as Malcolm's killer - also as Harry's hider. After all, who can you go to to hide someone if not the faeries?
Trying to help clarify. The journal entry is written during the events of Turn Coat but before Morgan knocks on Harry's door. The motivating action of Turn Coat, La Fortiers murder, happens off text and before the journal entry.
Because on page 341 at the Gates, they talk about the Adversary ...Ok. I think that's a bit vague to support your assertion that nobody on the Council knows what Nemesis is or that it exists.
You think whoever is leaking information to the vampires is pretty high up [in the White Council]. ... There's a new player in the game. Cowl's on the new team. We don't know who they are, but they seem to have a hard-on for screwing over everyone equally-vampires, mortals, wizards, whoever.That is, an organization that has high level access inside the White Council working against the White Council and others.
You don't promise to keep someone's child safe if you don't like them.Harry does all the time, and I bet Morgan would too. See his actions in saving Harry in Storm Front. Morgan is an asshole, but he's a good guy.
WOJ was that Kemmler was holding him as a youth because he was a body with magical potential to jump into next time he needed a backup, and he became Luccio's apprentice when she rescued him sometime following 'Fistful of warlocks'.I missed that one. Do you recall when/where he said that?
Clearly, the journal entry was written before the events of the novel... but after LaFortier's murder (where Morgan had rescued Luccio from the frame-up and instead framed himself).
That doesn't quite fit the timeline, Morgan woke up in LaFortier's room, he was dead and Luccio was holding the murder weapons.. I don't buy that Luccio was framed, I believe she did it, but for the reasons Morgan gave plus the ink from Peabody couldn't be held responsible for it. Problem, how could it be proved? So veiled her, not himself, got caught and blamed for it. Peabody was the one that orchestrated it with the ink. Rashid pretty much confirms that with the ink he got Luccio to murder LaFortier. The damage to her mind by the ink had been severe and as Rashid put it, " doing violence wasn't against her nature."
1. Ridiculous that he would write an entry before going to see Harry saying that he is going to see Harry. What if someone finds it before he is caught? If it is a friend it puts them in a moral quandary, and if it is an enemy than it gives his location away. Either way it sets up Harry for all kinds of crap.
2. He promised to protect Margaret’s son? Why?
3. He couldn’t find Dresden? Had he not taken any samples before he disappeared to be able to find him? If he hadn’t it seems like he was remarkably stupid in his attempts to protect Harry. If so, and they didn’t work, it indicates there are even more things Harry doesn’t know, since he seems to feel blood is a unpreventable connection method.Blood is the very best... but it's very transitory. Hair could last a while longer... but that duration will probably get cut short <heh> by regular haircuts in the orphanage. There's nothing that will last, not reliably; and as a working Warden, Morgan simply wouldn't have the time & freedom to keep going back and renewing his link. Such frequent visits would, if anything, draw more attention to Harry (thus placing him more at-risk (and Morgan too, for that matter: any place you visit repeatedly could easily be made a trap!)).
4. “That bastard Justin DuMorne got to him before I could. From then on, we could not be sure that the child was not molded to be a creature of Nemesis.” I’m assuming he only assumes Justin got him then, but I find it interesting that, assuming that, he then assumes that Justin was making a tool for Nemesis. It really makes it sound like:You raise some interesting points here; particularly the notion that at the time Malcom Dresden dies, Morgan & cohorts knew of Nemesis and knew/suspected DuMorne as an agent of Nemesis.
A. He/They knows what Nemesis is and are opposing it.
B. It seems obvious that they should oppose it if they know what it is, but if they knew/believed that Justin was a tool of it, why didn’t they take him out earlier? They wouldn’t have learned it after his death, so they must have known it before. Why leave a known tool of nemesis running around?
5. ... But it also indicates it is not a well kept secret, so we should assume that at the very least the entire senior council knows.I assume Morgan knowing means that Luccio knows, and the Merlin. I don't assume it has spread any further, not when wizards collect secret knowledge and hoard it like treasure.
6. Morgan says the enemy has invaded the Senior Council itself. I first took this to mean that he knew his set up was Nemesis inspired. I’m not sure if he is assuming that person who was framing him is on the senior council (which is wrong, just very near by) or if he has another reason to believe the someone else on the Senior council is infectedWe shouldn't conflate the "Black Council" with Nemesis; they aren't necessarily the same! I think Peabody was BC, but not necessarily Nemesis. I could be wrong -- maybe he was Nemesis, and not BC; or both BC + Nemesis.
7. “A Destroyer” obviously has actual meaning. Not enough info to guess though, other than it obviously ties into him being starbornI don't think it's necessarily linked to being Starborn, though I agree it's probable. Gonna launch another thread.
8... Was shagnasty in debt to a mere mortal wizard such that he had to be a servant in that book, or was shagnasty infected and being driven by Nemesis?WoJ says that there are beings operating to whom shagnasty is no more than a cheap hired thug; "dumb muscle" and no more. I don't recall Jim actually specifying that that's what was going on. But from what we know of Shagnasty, he was operating very true to his nature and his wants, not doing something oddly and Nemesis-driven against his nature.
9. Nemesis – Everyone seems scared that if you talk about it, it will learn that you know about it and come to get you ... Sure, one of them could be infected, but does telling them hurt somehow?As a Starborn, Harry probably possesses some unique resistances to Nemesis... maybe even a immunity, or nearly such?
Margaret wasn't running away to hide. She was a dead wizard walking. And she knew it. That much is in the text. As the how to safely meet someone who wants bad things for you, you meet them on the National Mall where they will be seen if they act.
Whatever Margaret knew it was valuable. Somebody was shielding her from Raith. Even if she was a deep cover agent of some type she still had to buy off her protector. Short of living her life in a circle, the only ones able to shield her that we are aware of were the Fae. The same way Morgan was shielded. And whoever did do it, did it for two years. Her stay alive card expired on October 31 when Harry was born.
That fact might lead you to believe that Harry was the price. Morgan isn't complaining that Harry was born. He bitching because Justin got in first. But there is another point implied. That Margaret had another thing so valuable it convinced Lea to protect her and then Harry. And this is pure speculation. Margaret knew who had the Atheme. Picture this, Lea doing a happy dance, and spending he next 25 years coming up with the price.
As an aside, the Senior Council knows about Outsiders. But that doesn't imply that they knew about Nemesis. But if the don't Cowl was right. And there is no reason to believe that the broader White Council is aware of Outsiders at all.
Another thing about the location. Wouldn't it be fun if Morgan had a magical way to write in his journal from a distance, perhaps even mentally? And that would appear written in a physical book stored in another place? It would be like uploading something to the Cloud for instant synchronization.If something like that was possible for a wizard, the journal could be in some safe place, that perhaps Morgan knew Luccio knew. It's just an idea.
Margaret wasn't running away to hide. She was a dead wizard walking. And she knew it. That much is in the text. As the how to safely meet someone who wants bad things for you, you meet them on the National Mall where they will be seen if they act.
Whatever Margaret knew it was valuable. Somebody was shielding her from Raith. Even if she was a deep cover agent of some type she still had to buy off her protector. Short of living her life in a circle, the only ones able to shield her that we are aware of were the Fae. The same way Morgan was shielded. And whoever did do it, did it for two years. Her stay alive card expired on October 31 when Harry was born.
That fact might lead you to believe that Harry was the price. Morgan isn't complaining that Harry was born. He bitching because Justin got in first. But there is another point implied. That Margaret had another thing so valuable it convinced Lea to protect her and then Harry. And this is pure speculation. Margaret knew who had the Atheme. Picture this, Lea doing a happy dance, and spending he next 25 years coming up with the price.
As an aside, the Senior Council knows about Outsiders. But that doesn't imply that they knew about Nemesis. But if the don't Cowl was right. And there is no reason to believe that the broader White Council is aware of Outsiders at all.
Finally, Justin having a magical way of transcribing a journal that Luccio web be likely to find. It's not a bad idea, but I wish there was something in any of the novels or short stories that were at least similar in nature to this. The closest is Harry's note to Ivy in Small Favor, but that doesn't work for Luccio. An old fashion physical dead letter drop that Luccio knew about might make more sense.
At a certain moment Margaret was shown around and was explained exactly how dangerous the outsiders were. That was because she was a necessary ingredient for creating a weapon against them. She needed to know. She agreed because she was convinced it was necessary. She made the best deals she could.
I doubt she got her information from the Council though. She roamed The Ways, one of her bestAlmost certainly not the council. They probably, with the exception of the gatekeeper, don’t know enough and are not in the position to show it so convincingly that Margaret decided to prepare her child for the fight that had to come.
buds was second only to Mab in the Winter Court, her and Rashid compared notes. I wouldn't be
surprised if it was from Lea and Mab that she got her information about Nemesis and that is what
she and Rashid compared notes about, since he is the first line of defense apparently.
I sense a certain amount of contempt for the Council on Rashid's part, and the whole "need to know"
thing pisses him off to a certain degree. It might be the source of Margaret's original anger with the
Council, not unlike the anger and frustration people in high security chain of command feel when something is need to know and it is determined that they don't need to know it. Yeah, it may keep
some things secret but it can also get people killed. But I can see Margaret angry over how the Council was dealing with the Enemy, rebelling and falling in with the wrong people which sent her
down the wrong path for a number of years.
Almost certainly not the council. They probably, with the exception of the gatekeeper, don’t know enough and are not in the position to show it so convincingly that Margaret decided to prepare her child for the fight that had to come.
It was Lea who showed her around. She might have told her about the conditions for getting a Starborn child. I can not imagine any council member telling her even if they knew.
But can you feel her frustration knowing what she knew and here was the Council as far as sheIt explains her involvement with the Sidhe. They are doing something to protect this reality.
knew, ignorant of the danger they all face?
It explains her involvement with the Sidhe. They are doing something to protect this reality.
... I think it's just a term Vitto Malvora created and used to sell his plan to Madrigal Raith. We know, from both Vitto's conversation with Cowl and the final battle in the Raith's Deeps that there wasn't another active partner other than Nemesis. I think it's easier to sell the idea of a powerful group working together ...While I agree that it could be made-up, and in some ways the "shadowy organization" is more threatening than a rogue wizard and a few-people-know-of-it otherworldly entity, I'm pretty sure that both Madrigal and Vittorio believed -- if it was invented, it was invented by Cowl, and sold to Vitto-the-dupe. I don't have my books available to check, but I thought Cowl and Vitto discussed it in the hide-out where Harry tracked Vitto via the paint-fleck...?
"My lord," Grey Cloak said, bowing his head. He left it that way;
There was a long moment of silence before Cowl spoke. Then he said, "You have failed."
"I have not yet succeeded," Grey Cloak replied with polite disagreement. "The curtain has not fallen."
"And the fool with you?"
"Still ignorant, my lord. I can preserve or dispose of him as you see fit." Grey Cloak took a deep breath and said, "He has gotten the wizard involved. There is some sort of vendetta between them, it would seem."
The little mist figure made a hissing sound. "The fool. There is not enough profit in Dresden's death to jeopardize the operation."
I seem to remember reading, and am more inclined to believe it was a WOJ than written in a novel or short story, but something about Harry saying this kind lady would visit him in the orphanage, and that was Lea. So if that is true, she checked on him, but as far as protection goes,
we know the Fae have a different view of things. From Lea's viewpoint Harry going to Justin might have been the best thing in the long term chess game for her Queen and the Winter Court. I doubt she was interested in Harry growing up with proper moral values.
However you slice it though, Lea and Justin seem to have had some sort of agreement, until Justin broke his end and Lea pointed Harry back at him like a weapon. I just think Lea is more likely to have the ability to shut Morgan's tracking down entirely than another wizard.
Maybe following a Rule of Three ... ?Odin?
But Morgan is not talking about what happened when Harry was born. He is speaking about what happened when Malcolm died. That is when Morgan missed his chance to take care of him because he was on a mission, Harry went to the foster system and only THEN Justin appeared.Justin was a warden at some point. We don't know precisely when he retired, but I'm sure he had connections with the Wardens after he retired. Dina's comment made me consider the possibility that Justin made his move when he knew Morgan wouldn't be around to do anything about it. That's assuming that Justin was directly involved in Malcolm's death and Harry's vanishing.
...
@BadAlias: it's ok :)
Morgan escaped from custody and got to his silver oak leaf. I doubt that he was allowed to keep it on his person while in custody. Morgan could have grabbed a few things when he got to his quarters or home or lair or whatever. Then he traveled the Ways to the Southwest and took a train to Chicago. He could have grabbed his journal and wrote on the train. There is a post office right near Union Station and I found an image of a post office "letter box" in Union Station. I don't know if the letter box is currently serviced or if it's kept for historical purposes. Point is, he could easily have dropped it in the mail at some point.
The Gatekeeper says the rest of the Council doesn't know as much as they think they do about his and Harry's roles. But as Kurtin points out, Jim has said that they don't share information. Some of the Senior Council probably knows more about their jobs than the Gatekeeper presumes.
The Gatekeeper says the rest of the Council doesn't know as much as they think they do about his and Harry's roles. But as Kurtin points out, Jim has said that they don't share information. Some of the Senior Council probably knows more about their jobs than the Gatekeeper presumes.
Justin was a warden at some point. We don't know precisely when he retired, but I'm sure he had connections with the Wardens after he retired. Dina's comment made me consider the possibility that Justin made his move when he knew Morgan wouldn't be around to do anything about it. That's assuming that Justin was directly involved in Malcolm's death and Harry's vanishing.
Thanks, Dina. :)
Morgan escaped from custody and got to his silver oak leaf. I doubt that he was allowed to keep it on his person while in custody. Morgan could have grabbed a few things when he got to his quarters or home or lair or whatever. Then he traveled the Ways to the Southwest and took a train to Chicago. He could have grabbed his journal and wrote on the train. There is a post office right near Union Station and I found an image of a post office "letter box" in Union Station. I don't know if the letter box is currently serviced or if it's kept for historical purposes. Point is, he could easily have dropped it in the mail at some point.
Um, during all of this, you are leaving out that Morgan was wounded pretty badly. So grabbing his journal and writing in it during a train ride seem a bit far fetched.Yet it appears that he did something of that sort. He wrote it somewhere, bleeding or not.
Yet it appears that he did something of that sort. He wrote it somewhere, bleeding or not.
I know, that is what rings so false to me in the whole micro story. I can buy that Morgan kept a journal, but I don't buy the timeline of the entry or it's writing. I find it a little hard to believe that Morgan, the warden's warden, would be close enough to Margaret to promise to watch her kid. To begin with, did she know ahead of time that she was going to be killed? Possible.. The only way I can rationalize her asking Morgan and him agreeing was he knew her role as a spy to get information on the Enemy. Was he the only one on the Council that knew about Harry's birth? Goes back to debates we've had before about Eb, he tried to get revenge for Margaret's death, but never followed up on the where his grandson went or what happened to him after his father died. You'd think if any of this was common knowledge, especially about Nemesis that he'd compared notes with Eb, who had after all done a soul gaze with Harry about his fears that he might be infected.The story is absolutely neutral with respect to the relationship between Margaret and Morgan. You needn't assume they were close. Nor do you need to assume she was a spy for the Council or anyone else. All you have to assume is that Harry's birth was an intentional act. She set out to produce a Starborn. And then she shopped him to Morgan. Harry is a weapon and Morgan's fear is about who will wield him.
That bastard Justin DuMorne got to him before I could.
From then on, we could not be sure that the child was not molded to be a creature of Nemesis.The way I read that is, since he knew about Harry in the first place, was that he was waiting for exactly the same reason Justin was, i.e. for Harry to manifest. And in the second case that they didn't fear a nemfection until he disappeared. This also implies that the "we" and Morgan knew the nature of a nemfection. I now assume that the we is the Senior Council.
The story is absolutely neutral with respect to the relationship between Margaret and Morgan. You needn't assume they were close. Nor do you need to assume she was a spy for the Council or anyone else. All you have to assume is that Harry's birth was an intentional act. She set out to produce a Starborn. And then she shopped him to Morgan. Harry is a weapon and Morgan's fear is about who will wield him.
The way I read that is, since he knew about Harry in the first place, was that he was waiting for exactly the same reason Justin was, i.e. for Harry to manifest. And in the second case that they didn't fear a nemfection until he disappeared. This also implies that the "we" and Morgan knew the nature of a nemfection. I now assume that the we is the Senior Council.
I'll point out that Jim has Margaret run and leave Thomas to become a vampire. Not exactly a paragon of motherhood as I define it.
Manifest. Come into his magic.
The way I read that is, since he knew about Harry in the first place, was that he was waiting for exactly the same reason Justin was, i.e. for Harry to manifest. And in the second case that they didn't fear a nemfection until he disappeared. This also implies that the "we" and Morgan knew the nature of a nemfection. I now assume that the we is the Senior Council.
That bastard Justin DuMorne got to him before I could.
From then on, we could not be sure that the child was not molded to be a creature of Nemesis.
I seriously doubt that Morgan couldn't track Harry once Justin adopted him.Morgan tells you he couldn't. Make what you want of that.
You may read that as Justin was the danger in terms of there being a nemfection, not something inherent in Harry. This quote is fairly self explanatory.
That bastard Justin DuMorne got to him before I could.
Morgan tells you he couldn't. Make what you want of that.
Holy Cow!!!
Talk about revelatory... I don't even know where to begin.
I love how it's straightforward, blunt, and right to the point. Very Morgan.
Um, during all of this, you are leaving out that Morgan was wounded pretty badly. So grabbing his journal and writing in it during a train ride seem a bit far fetched.He wrote in it some point after escaping and while losing blood. "I am losing blood." Sitting on a train seems like the best time we know of. I doubt it was while he was moving around.
Somehow I doubt it.
There are records when there are adoptions.. Harry and Elaine went to public school for crap sake.. During the time when Malcolm was alive maybe harder, they moved around a lot, but in the orphanage and after adoption?
I arrived less than ten hours after the child went into the foster care system, and someone made him vanish. Magically, physically, bureaucratically.There were no records by the time Morgan got there. Also, adoption records are sealed. In the mid 80's, when Harry would have been adopted, such records would have likely been stored for the long term on microfiche or a similar system a powerful wizard probably couldn't access, so Morgan couldn't have even stolen them and Justin could have easily destroyed them. If they hadn't been converted yet, paper is easy to burn.
No, it is not.. If a mother gives a damn about her baby, you are careful as to whom you ask to look out for it.Margaret does apologize for what she's done to Harry in the SoulGaze with Thomas. And Morgan is probably a pretty good choice for a protector. Morgan promised to protect Harry. We don't know that he promised to raise Harry if something happened to Malcolm. Margaret also choose Lea to protect Harry.
Quite. Because convincing a young mortal to believe that it is right and proper to use magic for violence is a delicate process and one that cannot be rushed.Martha Liberty tells you in Summer Knight when speaking to Eb that the Senior Council is afraid of Harry.
Martha shook her head. "You know what he was meant to be. He's too great a risk."The only things new in the journal are that Morgan knew Margaret on some level and that he was watching Harry while he was still with his father in an effort to protect him, and that he was aware of Nemesis and Eb's relation to Harry. And quite frankly everybody and his brother seems to know that Eb is the Blackstaff and that Harry is his grandson.
The only things new in the journal are that Morgan knew Margaret on some level and that he was watching Harry while he was still with his father in an effort to protect him, and that he was aware of Nemesis and Eb's relation to Harry. And quite frankly everybody and his brother seems to know that Eb is the Blackstaff and that Harry is his grandson.
Martha Liberty tells you in Summer Knight when speaking to Eb that the Senior Council is afraid of HarryYes, but many think Harry is still a warlock and they also fear he was like his mother. No mention of the Enemy..
Not much of this is new. Lea tells you in Ghost Story that Harry was being taught to kill with magic.No, not really, she says he was being trained as an "enforcer." If Harry had been trained to kill he wouldn't have needed to go to Lea to get a "confidence boost" before he returned to Justin. Also instead of running he could have tried to kill Justin on the spot instead of run when Justin tried to get him into a straight jacket. Harry got lucky with HWWB.. So while Justin was tough on him, I don't think he got to the killing part yet. Partly I think in self defense, he didn't want his pair of hand grenades to blow up on him. I do think once he got them both enthralled the killing by magic part would have been taught. But then again, to what purpose? Because if either did kill by magic the wardens would have swarmed pretty quickly as they did when Harry did kill Justin. Which begs another question, if they didn't have Justin's little family under surveillance, how did they get there so quickly?
Margaret does apologize for what she's done to Harry in the SoulGaze with Thomas
Also excellent pick up on the Washington D.C. detail. That was definitely a hint for keen observers. I wonder what is in D.C. that Margaret Le Fay hid or did? I am sure it wasn't mere sight-seeing with Malcolm. Too coincidental in my opinion, especially considering that is where the Library of Congress is (which if you remember, is the home of the vanilla mortal authorities charged with fighting the supernatural by the U.S.A).
26 BSF, some time between August and October – Malcolm Dresden and his heavily-pregnant wife Margaret visit the Lincoln Memorial.If not that then something. It sticks out like a sore thumb.
The (by Priscellie) timeline. (https://www.jim-butcher.com/timeline) I speculated that it could a place where Margaret could have met Morgan safely.If not that then something. It sticks out like a sore thumb.
Agree
if they didn't have Justin's little family under surveillance, how did they get there so quickly?Because whatever he was doing to hide them ended when he died. Either because he died or the spell burned up in the fire. That's my guess.
...
She is talking about the burden of his birth, Malcolm also apologizes when Harry has his dream/vision of him.
*siigh* I have the same reaction I had when everybody including JK Rowling and Harry Potter forgave Snape for being a prick.
Not willing to forgive him so easily.
I also agree, that is why I have real problems with this effort to rehab Morgan.
Morgan, who thought he might "have become paranoid and mad," is too trusting in Harry's opinion.
If there is rehab in this story, there was rehab in almost every story in which Morgan appears. In Storm Front, he saves Harry from death and the Doom. In Dead Beat, Harry realizes Morgan doesn't hate him, he's just seen too much, and Harry wonders if he'll end up the same. In Proven Guilty, Morgan is sickened and hesitant in having to execute Molly. In Turn Coat, Morgan admits he was wrong about Harry and never turns Molly in.
Yeah, the main feeling that I find invoked with regards to Morgan and his role in the later parts of the story is pity, not forgiveness.
Pity for a man that I think was probably once Noble and Good, but had fought too long and too hard against too many awful things, made too many compromises in the name of what was 'right' and found himself twisted and embittered by them. He is sympathetic, and pitiable, because imho he's a potential endpoint to the path that Harry has placed himself on.
He is also, however, a massive butthole.
One thing more somewhere in the books I believe it had been clearly stated more than once that all but Eb's inner circle had no clue that Margaret was Eb's daughter.Much as the rest of the stories make Morgan a large Merlin-loyalist (and we know Eb and the Merlin are not good friends), we also know Eb was Captain of the Wardens which he passed (no known intermediate) to Luccio. And Morgan was clearly also a Luccio loyalist.
I just had a little jolt of a thought I haven't been able to fully flesh out yet. But there have been a few times in the story where someone or something has done something unexplained in the background that was glossed over because of pressing matters. Now we have to go back and review - which if any of these things could be attributed to Donald Morgan looking out for Harry in the mortal world the way that Lea does in faerie?
Of course it may also just be Margaret who got Morgan to promise to protect Harry by going 'Look I know you hate me, but you respect Captain Ebenezar, and that kid is his grandson too!'.Or Margaret told Morgan this and told him what might be possible if the child survived.
"It is relevant," Lasciel said, "because of the circumstances of your birth—because of why you were born, Harry. Your mother found the strength to escape Lord Raith for a reason."Which gives rise to this quote.
What the hell was she talking about?
Thud-thump: 1:26.
"There was a complex confluence of events, of energies, of circumstances that would have given a child born under them the potential to wield power over Outsiders."
Martha shook her head. "You know what he was meant to be. He's too great a risk."And the first quote closes with this.
After which, we were going to have a long talk about my mother and these Outsiders and their relation to the Black Court and exactly what the hell was going on.Say hello Bonea. In any case Morgan may have known what Harry represented because he met with Margaret and she extracted the promise as the price for revealing what Harry's role was to be.
Lasciel—Lash, rather—nodded once and said, "I will tell you all that I can, Harry."
I just had a little jolt of a thought I haven't been able to fully flesh out yet. But there have been a few times in the story where someone or something has done something unexplained in the background that was glossed over because of pressing matters. Now we have to go back and review - which if any of these things could be attributed to Donald Morgan looking out for Harry in the mortal world the way that Lea does in faerie?
Malcolm died while I was on mission elsewhere. I arrived less than ten hours after the child went into the foster care system, and someone made him vanish. Magically, physically, bureaucratically. There was no trace of him, and I searched for years.
That bastard Justin DuMorne got to him before I could.
From then on, we could not be sure that the child was not molded to be a creature of Nemesis.
I tend to think it's the second possibility. It would make sense, to me, that Justin caught wind that the White Council had tracked him down, and were closing in on him. I've thought for several years that Justin's indoctrination of Harry and Elaine would've been way more effective without resorting to magic, and that it doesn't really make sense to brute force your way into making a pair of teenagers thralls. Cults do it just fine without magic, and then you've got the benefit of fanaticism. So I think that he found out that the WC was coming for him, and resorted to the brute force method because he'd have to go on the run.QuoteMorgan said he arrived 10 hours after Harry went into the foster care system. I was under the impression from other stories that Harry was in an orphanage for several years before Justin adopted him. Like, Malcolm died when he was six and Justin didn't adopt him until he was 9 or 10.
Actually I think Harry was closer to twelve for some reason. But you are right, Harry was in the system for a number of years, talked about the hard time he had with vanilla kids once his powers began to awaken because he was different and had no clue what was happening to him.
I don't know if this has been asked before. I don't really have time to look through 9 pages of history.
Morgan said he arrived 10 hours after Harry went into the foster care system. I was under the impression from other stories that Harry was in an orphanage for several years before Justin adopted him. Like, Malcolm died when he was six and Justin didn't adopt him until he was 9 or 10.
Morgan arrived 10 hours after Harry went into the foster care system. I don't expect Morgan to go into the details of the system of care for orphans, so I'm assuming he just means from the custody of first responders to the child care system. I imagine that could easily take a couple of hours. Justin wasn't a foster father. He adopted Harry. Foster care is generally considered temporary. Adoption is permanent.
While Justin didn't have contact, there was a "nice
lady" who did, and that was Lea. She'd have the power to wall Harry off, but why?
The thought just came to me that since he was a star child, Lea knew that there were enemy forces out to get him, so she kept him hidden. However it would be hard to hide the fact when his powers began to awaken. Why she let Justin have him is anyone's guess, but even she isn't immune to making mistakes. I doubt she was on Justin's side or knew fully of his intentions otherwise she wouldn't have helped Harry get ready to kill him.
Lea knew that there were enemy forces out to get him, so she kept him hidden.Has anybody considered that Lea is enemy forces?
Has anybody considered that Lea is enemy forces?
I have, or I wrote about is a few years back, it was when I did my first reread. While yes, when
we first meet Lea it is seen though the lens of Harry's extreme paranoia about her, not helped by her
desire to turn him into one of her hounds to keep him "safe." Having said that, her ambition and thirst for power comes through which ends with her bargaining a Holy Sword for the Knife, which we now know is infected. The general theory is she was infected by the Knife and was later cured by Mab when she put her on ice. It was my opinion then that she might have been infected before she came in contact with the Knife. If she was, it would account for her being okay with Harry going to Justin for his training, then when Harry proved himself by escaping enthrallment, neutralizing HWWB, Justin could be discarded.... So she then supposedly helped Harry eliminate him, what she did was trick an inexperienced sixteen year old kid into a bargain. We find out later that she did little to aid Harry except perhaps a "confidence boost" as Jim puts it, but it makes Harry obligated to her with the hope of later making use of him. All this plays into the Enemy's hands, except Mab had other plans.
Lea did have the fairy godmother bargain running at the time which complicates her relationship to Harry.
He said he arrived 10 hours after Harry went into foster care, not 10 hours after Malcolm died. We just established that there's several years between.
@exartiem. "Harry went into foster care" means "Harry was sent to the foster system. He was recorded, sent to an orphanage" not "he has been adopted". That happened 4 years later. Mira is probably right about what happened immediately after Malcolm died, with police, social workers and so on. I imagine in a day or two he was in an orphanage, and someone hid him from other people, like Morgan. I think the easier option is that is Lea. She considered that Harry was safe in the system, but she made sure that no one else knew about him. She probably messed with the paperwork (which was not very complicated when Harry was a child) and did some glamour so he was magically protected too. I am not sure what "physically" meant here.
In other topics, it is very interesting that clearly no one seems to know about Elaine status as a starborn (which reminds me. We know that because of WoJ, but have we seen anyone on the books who explicitly knows that? Does Harry know that?)
~26-27 BSF: Thomas is given a pentacle necklace on his fifth birthday. His mother escapes Lord Raith.That timeline is dodgy.
26 BSF: Maggie LeFay meets Malcolm Dresden.
~25 BSF: Collin Murphy saves rookie CPD officer Rawlins from an unspecified supernatural creature in a dark alley, killing it with a shotgun full of rock salt. (~30 years before Dead Beat)
26 BSF, some time between August and October – Malcolm Dresden and his heavily-pregnant wife Margaret visit the Lincoln Memorial.
It's always struck me as strange that in a span of less than two years, Maggie met, fell in love and had a baby by Malcolm, all while hiding from Papa Raith and an entropy curse. Knowing full well that she was ded dead. If still mobile. Malcolm was always going to be a widower. What kind of women chooses to have a child under those conditions. And what kind of man would become a father under those same conditions. Here is the timeline.
[Margaret] touched my face again and said, "I was so arrogant. I laid too great a burden upon you to bear alone. I hope that one day you will forgive me my mistake. But know that I am proud of what you have become. I love you, child."
"I love you," I whispered.
"An Outsider," Lasciel said. "I have felt such a presence before. This attack is drawn directly from the mind of the Outsider."
Gosh, that was interesting. Not relevant, but interesting.
"It is relevant," Lasciel said, "because of the circumstances of your birth - because of why you were born, Harry. Your mother found the strength to escape Lord Raith for a reason."
What the hell was she talking about?
Thud-thump : 1:26.
"There was a complex confluence of events, of energies, of circumstances that would have given a child born under them the potential to wield power over Outsiders."
I mean we don't know anything about Elaine, so it could be that she was just born in the right circumstances and Justin found her, unlike Harry whose birth was almost certainly engineered:What I am suggesting is that Harry was what the cabal was up to. And Elaine being random strains credulity to the limits. Unless Jim is throwing reality straight out the window. The timeline allows the possibility that Margaret ran because she found out she was pregnant and Malcolm's Saintlyness involved raising and loving a child he didn't father.
So yeah, mumma Dresden (who we know was always a piece of work) totally had him on purpose to fuck up whatever her old cabal was up to. That she fell in love with Malcolm and chose him to be the father was probably just good fortune on her/Harry's part.
Ref: https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,50129.msg2289460.html#msg2289460
I put out the theory a while back that perhaps Justin and Margaret LeFay were working together to learn how to create a starborn.
This idea explains how Justin was able to find Elaine as well as Harry. Both are powerful and skilled wizards, it is not believable that Justin could have found two such apprentices by chance.
APG
Your giving Eb access to information that Eb shouldn't have had. While my read of the text indicates that Eb was aware of Malcolm and therefore Harry prior to Malcolm's death, there isn't anything to indicate that he ever spoke to Maggie before she died. If that is true he wouldn't have any idea of why she ran.
"She met your father. A man. A mortal, without powers, without influence, without resources. But a man with a good soul, like few I've ever seen."
@Morris: I would note that Margaret was headed to Hell, but didn't make it there. Something happened to take her off that path. Eb says the thing that changed her was meeting Malcolm.Here is the full text.
He was silent for a minute. Then two. And a while later he said, "The Council knew that you were the son of Margaret LeFay. They knew that she was one of the wizards who had turned the Council's own laws against it. She was guilty of violating the First Law, among others, and she had… unsavory associations with various entities of dubious reputation. The Wardens were under orders to arrest her on sight. She'd have been tried and executed in moments when she was brought before the Council."
"I was told she died in childbirth," I said.
"She did," Ebenezar confirmed. "I don't know why, but for some reason she turned away from her previous associates—including Justin DuMorne. After that, nowhere was safe for her. She ran from her former allies and from the Wardens for perhaps two years. And she ran from me. I had my orders regarding her as well."
I stared at him in pained fascination. "What happened?"
"She met your father. A man. A mortal, without powers, without influence, without resources. But a man with a good soul, like few I have ever seen. I believe that she fell in love with him. But on the night you were born, one of her former allies found her and exacted his vengeance for her desertion."
I explicitly presume that Chauncy is a liar.
Unless there's a magical bargain in place, so his info MUST be good (in order for him to get the thing he wants in return), Chauncy will mix truth and lies -- MOSTLY lies -- such that nothing he says can be treated as "factual."
It's just part of what Chauncy is.
about the timeline that bothers @morriswalters so much. What if Margaret lived in the Nevernever part of that time, and so time passed different from her? It is even possible that part of her pregnancy was in the nevernever. That would probably have given Harry a significant magical boost.
That is very possible.. However we have the huge example of the Thief on the Cross. This was a real bad guy who on the Cross stood up for Jesus on the Cross to the other dying thief, and Jesus told him that night, "he'd be with him in Paradise." So one act can redeem.I do not think the mere fact that the romans crucified someone proves that he was a bad man.
about the timeline that bothers @morriswalters so much. What if Margaret lived in the Nevernever part of that time, and so time passed different from her? It is even possible that part of her pregnancy was in the nevernever. That would probably have given Harry a significant magical boost.Considering that Malcolm is said to be a vanilla mortal, how would that work in terms of a hookup?
Considering that Malcolm is said to be a vanilla mortal, how would that work in terms of a hookup?Do YOU want the most excellent romantic vacation possible at no charge and without nagging other people about?
Considering that Malcolm is said to be a vanilla mortal, how would that work in terms of a hookup?
What concerns me with her story is why should I care that Maggie died?I don't really understand where the question is coming from, but the only reasons I can see are consequential. One is how it informs Harry's character (and maybe Eb's). Another is that the details of her life after disassociating with the bad guys and death are probably pretty informative of what's going on. Now if there is ever a story featuring her, there might be more emotional reasons to care that she dies.
I do not think the mere fact that the romans crucified someone proves that he was a bad man.
He was a criminal though because the man who defended Jesus say that the two of them deserved to die because they guilty of what they were accused of where as Jesus wasn't.If they were guilty of rebelling against the roman state then I see nothing wrong with that.
39 Now one of the criminals hanging there reviled Jesus, saying, "Are you not the Messiah? Save yourself and us." 40 The other, however, rebuking him, said in reply, "Have you no fear of God, for you are subject to the same condemnation? 41 And indeed, we have been condemned justly, for the sentence we received corresponds to our crimes, but this man has done nothing criminal." 42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." 43 He replied to him, "Amen I say to you today you will be with me in Paradise." 23:39–43
Penitent thiefOne of the reasons I do not trust the biblical text. Judea at that moment was almost continuously in armed uprising against rome only the intensity varied somewhat. You hear nothing about that in the scriptures. It is far more likely that he hung there because of that and the later pro roman redaction made a thief out of him. Just as it is more likely that jesus was crucified because the romans saw a threat in him. It was a roman punishment.
Jim's building to some type of reveal about her. As a reader, for that to have impact I need to be involved emotionally with the character. And I'm not. Right now I'm at the, she bought it and she had to pay for it, and good riddance, stage.Me too. I'm just saying Jim has room to change what we think about Margaret without contradicting the story in ways that an audience can't accept. Without adding anything so that we perceive Margaret more favorably, the reveal about Margaret, if it does happen, could have impact because of what it means to Harry.
My point is we don't really know what was going on, and Margaret could easily be much more sympathetic than she appears.Jim's kept it so vague that she could be a closet nun. I'm just wore out with it. But I guess he will get to the point. Maybe.
@ArjanAlways been interested in history and the history of the origins of Christianity is interesting stuff though too much has been lost. There is actually an interesting discussion about the meaning of the Greek word for these robbers. I read about it in a book originally but it is explained here:
Not being particularly religious I treat the Bible as lore.
@Bad AliasJim's kept it so vague that she could be a closet nun. I'm just wore out with it. But I guess he will get to the point. Maybe.
Simple thieves were not executed on the cross. That was reserved for serious cases. It was not meant to satisfy the sense of justice of the population but to terrify an unruly population.
What we have directly seen of Maggie (her message to Harry, his dream or something, when he felt that her hand is guiding him, showed her as a good woman. And people seemed to like her, so I am ready to believe she was reckless, dangerous, rebel but good at heart and perhaps many of the things she did where because of the White vampires influence.I'd attribute them more to arrogance and naivete, myself. She seems to me like a woman who dove into things with the mindset of, "I know what I'm doing, screw those old fogies, nobody can stop me!" then eventually realized she was in way over her head and made a lot of her last moves out of fear, regret and desperation.
I'd attribute them more to arrogance and naivete, myself. She seems to me like a woman who dove into things with the mindset of, "I know what I'm doing, screw those old fogies, nobody can stop me!" then eventually realized she was in way over her head and made a lot of her last moves out of fear, regret and desperation.
I'd attribute them more to arrogance and naivete, myself. She seems to me like a woman who dove into things with the mindset of, "I know what I'm doing, screw those old fogies, nobody can stop me!" then eventually realized she was in way over her head and made a lot of her last moves out of fear, regret and desperation.Interesting that your interpretation is so different of mine, specially about her last movements. I see them as calculated and very rational, nothing of desperation (and she could feel fear and regret but that was not what fueled her actions).
I followed her nod with my gaze. The image-Thomas snarled something under his breath. The Hunger in the mirror answered in a slow, slithering tongue I did not understand. "Why didn't you help him?"She set up her death curse on the way ot the door. Whatever caused her to run didn't keep her from taking her vengeance on Raith and using her sons to fuel it. And the quote implies that he has done something to Harry as well. Darth Vader got redemption by killing the Emperor. Maggie deserves similar treatment.
"I did what I could," my mother said. Her eyes flickered with something dark, an ancient spark of hatred. "I made sure that his father would endure a fitting punishment for what he did to us."
@Mira
Love isn't enough. It does nothing for those who may have been hurt or who may be hurt by her actions. If she is to be redeemed in the text then we need something else. Or rather I should say you all will need more, at the rate he's writing I won't see the endpoint. To use Jim's favorite movies. Darth Vader gets redemption by killing the Emperor. Maggie needs equal billing with Darth Vader.
"You and Thomas?"
"And you, Harry.
Be careful of comparing Margaret to protestors. The era was much less simple than those comparisons make it seem. Margaret may resemble more closely in fact the ones who used murder as a political statement and who considered the status quo as something that needed to be crushed at any cost.
Love isn't enough. It does nothing for those who may have been hurt or who may be hurt by her actions. If she is to be redeemed in the text then we need something else. Or rather I should say you all will need more, at the rate he's writing I won't see the endpoint. To use Jim's favorite movies. Darth Vader gets redemption by killing the Emperor. Maggie needs equal billing with Darth Vader.
"You and Thomas?"
"And you, Harry.
Y'know I really don't get where the 'using her sons to fuel it' stuff is coming from with regards to her death curse. Wasn't it fueled by her lifeforce (like any death curse) and just tied to her bloodline so that the Curse stayed 'refreshed' instead of fading like a normal spell?Well it got Thomas tied to a rock as a tidbit for He Who Walks Behind, Murphy attacked and Harry almost murdered as well. But all's well that ends well, I guess. Look, Jim wrote it that way. I'm just pointing out the notes in the score that he's written. What I'm interested is in where the music takes us. In Skin Game Jim told us that Maggie was a piece of work. And he used the scion of a true nightmare to tell us. He's playing with our expectations. And now comes the Journal. I'm hoping in Pace Talks to get some clarity.
It's not like it hurt Harry, or Thomas, in any way, near as I can tell. Just that the presence of Maggie's descendants kept the spell anchored/strong.
Be careful of comparing Margaret to protesters.That's why I agreed with the statement. "Normal" kids ended robbing banks for the Symbionese Liberation Army. Or maybe how today "normal" kids went to Syria to join ISIS.
That's why I agreed with the statement. "Normal" kids ended robbing banks for the Symbionese Liberation Army. Or maybe how today "normal" kids went to Syria to join ISIS.
Two points:
First, we should be careful about how deep we get into religious doctrine because this story is coming from Jim's mind. It doesn't necessarily have to jive with his own beliefs. He has said in interviews that he was raised fundamentalist Christian, but more from the "fun" end of fundamental rather than the "mental" end.
Second, as to whether we should care about Margaret, you guys seem to be treating this topic as it's own story. This is Harry's story. Harry cares about his mother, all the good and bad. If you care about Harry then you should care about what affects him.
Of course, if you don't care about Harry, then why are you reading his story?
Second, as to whether we should care about Margaret, you guys seem to be treating this topic as it's own story. This is Harry's story. Harry cares about his mother, all the good and bad. If you care about Harry then you should care about what affects him.Context is king. If Maggie's story doesn't land then Harry's story is weaker. And we talk about her because Jim keeps dragging her to the forefront. So he wants you thinking about Maggie. Arguably Margaret is Harry's mentor. More than anyone else other than Malcolm she has made Harry what he is. And if you don't understand her story then you can't understand Harry's. She is mentioned in almost every book and is connected to all the people in Harry's life. His daughter was named after her.
Of course, if you don't care about Harry, then why are you reading his story?
... Jim's kept it so vague that she could be a closet nun. I'm just wore out with it ...
Perhaps the story is interesting enough to be read without actually caring for the lead character.In my experience, that's not a thing. If I don't care about the main characters, I don't care enough to keep going.
You're... just wore out with vague hints, speculations, possible/probable/improbable/nothing's-impossiblities ??!? :oThis is a nice, quite, drama free place. Something I place a high value on. The rest is a rant, you've been warned.
Dude. ???
You're hanging out on the wrong forum.
;)
That happens me often but with Harry I took some books to actually caring for him. I kept reading because I liked...well, all the things Harry does not any more. The P.I thing, the potions, the magic gadgets. Also, because I had seen the show and I actually cared for those Harry, Morgan, and Bob.
Interesting that your interpretation is so different of mine, specially about her last movements. I see them as calculated and very rational, nothing of desperation (and she could feel fear and regret but that was not what fueled her actions).
This is a nice, quite, drama free place. Something I place a high value on. The rest is a rant, you've been warned.You've just blown the case wide open! ;)(click to show/hide)
... I'm thinking of things like the plot of Proven Guilty. Nine books later we don't have any real clue and neither does anyone else. Can you tell me something as simple as, who was the antagonist? ...
Not that I can think of a reason why Molly would be so valuable back then as to be worth that much effort of course, but hey, I'm half asleep, this is probably a stupid idea.
The connection to Journal is in the mechanism used to find Molly by the antagonist. Like I said, 9 books later all we got are WAGS. Nobody can speak definitively about why it worked the way it did. And the most interesting question in PG is not who fixed LC, but why did Jim break it in the first place.Based on Mab's "desert fox" comment in Summer Knight, I think she doesn't know what Rashid is up to all the time (maybe most of the time) but enjoys trying to figure it out.(click to show/hide)
Why would Margaret contact Morgan? The only thing that makes any sense to me comes from how Jim has positioned Morgan. As absolutely uncorruptable. What would that imply?Rashid also has some ability to see possible futures.(click to show/hide)
Based on Mab's "desert fox" comment in Summer Knight, I think she doesn't know what Rashid is up to all the time (maybe most of the time) but enjoys trying to figure it out.Mab does what Anduriel does, with the addition of video. Rashid is only a step behind her. It's a wonder Harry doesn't feel breathing on his neck when he takes a leak. However in terms of Time, at least in this case, it's a probabilistic look at time. Possible futures rather than absolute ones. Things that might be. What that Desert Fox tells you more than anything else, is that Mab knows him well enough to give him an affectionate nickname.
Rashid also has some ability to see possible futures.
Random thought I just had, but what if Mab wasn't the target of the attack on Arctus Tor? What if Mab's reasons for having Molly abducted was because the 'hornets nest' that Harry had kicked up had decided to cut their losses in the face of Hurricane Dresden and take her themselves, and Mab just decided to rob them of their prize by 'kidnapping' her away to her Stronghold.The attack at Arctis Tor was designed to do precisely what it did, keep Mab bottled up while events were occurring in Dead Beat. It was a feint. She beat it off and then tried to figure out how and why.
Not that I can think of a reason why Molly would be so valuable back then as to be worth that much effort of course, but hey, I'm half asleep, this is probably a stupid idea.
Harry wasn't yet the hero of the young Wardens of Turn Coat/Changes, but he was no doubt close.
And then Ebenezar and his gang are dead if Uriel/TWG doesn't send Michael.
Are you sure? Have to go back but I believe the consensus was that Harry was the hero of the young wardens and the apprentices. I believe you are thinking of Proven Guilty when Michael tells him that it was Harry that was being saved, not Molly.Uhm.
Uhm.
Yes, that was what my sentenced aimed to convey - in Turn Coat/Changes Harry is the hero of the young Wardens.
In Proven Guilty he isn't yet, but I think he was on the way there.
“There’s more to it than that,” Luccio said. “I think that you do not realize your own reputation. You have overcome more enemies and battled more evils than most wizards a century your senior. And times are changing. There are more young wizards attaining membership to the Council than ever before—like Ramirez and his companions, there. To them, you are a symbol of defiance to the conservative elements of the Council, and a hero who will risk his life when his principles demand it.”
“I am?”
“You are,” Luccio said.
Butcher, Jim. Dead Beat: A Novel of The Dresden Files (p. 317). Penguin Group. Kindle Edition.
@morris:The short answer to that is I don't know. But the Council as it is is doomed. I think Jim has made that clear.
Was it just that?
Molly was set up to get Harry killed trying to keep her from meeting the same fate.But who set Molly up? (Which is kinda your point that we have all these unanswered questions from Proven Guilty).
The BC. The only mystery left there is who are they? My point really is, why so many. Look at how many characters on team bad guy are dead. Would it kill him to clarify a few things?Maybe. He has a mortage.
I don't want him to go to a book signing in Sri Lanka and shout it out in a mall there.Please don't give up humor.
I feel his pain. But it has nothing to do with plot service. I don't want him to go to a book signing in Sri Lanka and shout it out in a mall there. I want him to put it in the text.Now I want Jim to do the Big Reveal in Sri Lanka ... in the text, on one of Harry's Road Trips.
... Using the true love for her son, she was able to break Raith’s hold over her ...
... it’s got to be reciprocated equally or it doesn’t work. While a parent’s love for a child can be something pure and selfless, the child doesn’t return the same kind of love. Children can’t. The nature of the relationship isn’t one of equals exchanging trust and affection, but of the greater protecting the lesser ...(https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-vampires/)
... I’ve always been in the camp that mortals can’t be Nfected since they have free will, however what if Nemesis gives mortals what they most seek - an immortality of sorts? ... So what if Nfected mortals can’t die? ...I'm still pretty much "on the fence" about whether mortals can/cannot be Nemfected. On the whole, I tend to think they can (although I suspect it works differently in mortals than in immortals). The strongest evidence AFAIK is Maeve's testimony at the end of Cold Days:
"And the vampire's crumpet. Lucious little thing, aren't you? And so close to Lady Raith. You and I are going to have a long talk after this, darling. I just know you're going to start to see things my way."(Cold Days, Chapter 51; emphasis added by me)
... This was clearly done by some organization with a lot of experience in dealing with human affairs - note that Morgan says kid Harry disappeared physically, magically & bureaucratically. I don’t think the Fae would be able to hide Harry without mortal help (I do believe Lea was involved because I’ve also heard the WoJ that she would disguise herself & visit Harry at the orphanage) ...I think Justin was involved in "disappearing" Harry because Justin was the one who ended up with Harry (even though Morgan was also looking).
You've just blown the case wide open! ;)
I can barely finish a 90 minute movie when I don't care about (or dislike when I'm supposed to like) the main character.
@123Chikadee: That's why I hedged a bit with "main characters" instead of just "main character."
No, the Fae aren't experts in bureaucratic stuff.Mab's a lawyer.
Mab's a lawyer.Of sorts. Not a sort you'd care to face in a courtroom, to be sure!
Mab’s human cover is she’s a lawyer, she’s actually a licensed attorney and can show up and do things if she wants to, she doesn’t often choose to do that but occasionally it’s useful to be able to walk into a human courtroom. cos law is something that… I think one of the defining attributes of many of the fae is that they have this completely rigid code, and they understand codes even if we don’t understand the code they're behaving by, they adhere to it and they're going to stick to whatever they believe in even if it makes no sense to us...Jim, Eastorcon 2015
I mean she is literally a lawyer.
Jim, Eastorcon 2015
I don't know how she's a lawyer, where she's admitted, or how she maintains her license(s).
- Did she go to law school and pass the bar exam or was she a lawyer before some or all such requirements existed and has she just maintained her license(s)?
- Is she licensed in just one state? Is she licensed in all of them? Is she licensed in multiple countries?
- Does she sit through CLE classes? (California requires 25 hours every 3 years, Texas 15 every year, and New York 24 every 2 years)
I mean she is literally a lawyer.
<Snip WoJ>
Jim, Eastorcon 2015
...
... It brings her bargaining powers into focus though, why she is so good at finding loop holes and why mortals usually lose to her.To be brutally frank about it, rigid adherence to weird legalistic codes (with abstruse loopholes and stunningly draconian penalties) has been a hallmark of faeries & old faerie-tales since LONG before any of the existing legal codes were written; it's far more likely (particularly in the Dresdenverse) that the lawyers derive their ways from the fae, than vice versa!
I don't see any of the above being a problem for her, if she needs a license, it will happen.It's more that it seems like her time is more valuable. A lot of CLE credits are apply to most states, so it's not like she's going to have to do 425 hours a year (just over 17 days), but I wouldn't be surprised if she would have to spend a few days every year taking CLEs. A lot of CLE seminars designed to cover a years worth of credits are scheduled over two or three days. And it's not like she could just not take the classes because that would involve lying. There are other certifications (statements) lawyers have to make annually. Additionally, depending on when she became a lawyer in America, she could have been required to swear an oath to defend the Constitution, which is a somewhat scary concept.
Then again, Mab isn't a mere mortal, taking classes and tests to keep current wouldn't be that big a deal for her. Possibly she'd take them those times when she was out and about in the mortal world with Sarissa, going to the opera etc..It's still a tremendous waste of time for virtually no gain. Mab's got a lot to do.
I don't see any need for her to do it. I'm sure someone that /looks/ like her does attend and keep up with whatever is needed, but I doubt it's Mab. That's what minions are for and probably the only time one uses a glamour to look like Mab.This would require her, or the minion, to lie.
It's still a tremendous waste of time for virtually no gain. Mab's got a lot to do.She can just arrive with her invisible minion, introduce herself and swap with a simple illusion and the minion can do the test.
This would require her, or the minion, to lie.
I mean, most people have no idea what's involved in most professions. This came up recently because a friend of mine who is a manager had employees becoming disgruntled because they thought she just sat there in her office not doing anything. I don't know why they thought a big corporation would even have that position if it didn't involve doing anything, but hey, people are generally stupid.
Honestly, it has me thinking that Jim has no idea what is involved in simply being a lawyer. I mean, most people have no idea what's involved in most professions. This came up recently because a friend of mine who is a manager had employees becoming disgruntled because they thought she just sat there in her office not doing anything. I don't know why they thought a big corporation would even have that position if it didn't involve doing anything, but hey, people are generally stupid.But it is good that managers do nothing because then they do not disturb the people who are doing the real work ;D
The bar exams aren't really the problem. Mab was most likely admitted to practice before those were a common place thing. "Think about this, to become a lawyer, all Abraham Lincoln, our esteemed 16th president, was required by Illinois law to do was to 'obtain certificate procured from the court of an Illinois county certifying to the applicant's good moral character.'"
The problem is taking and certifying that she has taken the CLEs. Mab cannot falsely certify she has fulfilled her annual CLE requirements.
I'm sure there's a way for people to fulfill CLE req's via some form of "tutoring" and other 1:1 interactions.There aren't. Doing all the CLEs at once electronically is the only way that makes any sense. Doing however many hours in an hour. Even if that's what she does, it still seems like a waste of her time.
There aren't. Doing all the CLEs at once electronically is the only way that makes any sense. Doing however many hours in an hour. Even if that's what she does, it still seems like a waste of her time.
This would require her, or the minion, to lie.
Mab, as the other said, could have many legitimate identities, and she just needs to take the exam or exams to be licensed, which would be piece of cake for her.Nope (mostly).
Today, only four states — California, Virginia, Vermont, and Washington.https://priceonomics.com/how-to-be-a-lawyer-without-going-to-law-school/ (https://priceonomics.com/how-to-be-a-lawyer-without-going-to-law-school/). Also, it takes longer and more time throughout than going to law school.
But that is precisely what I mean, that Jim has not said that Mab is a lawyer in USA. That is why I mentioned that I don't think my country has any requirement to mantain the status. Once you got your license, you are a lawyer for ever (or at least I believe so. Dad was a lawyer and I don't remember him talking any mandatory classes)
I doubt Mab became a lawyer in Red Court territory just so she can say "I'm a lawyer." Especially since Jim says she finds it useful to be able to walk into a courtroom. This implies that she's a lawyer everywhere she has significant interests.
My country (which may or may be not be Red Court territory in JB world) was only an example. Perhaps Europe has another rules too. I won't be surprised if Mab has a British identity, so Shakesperean.
My best friend's husband is a lawyer, I think it depends on the type of law one practices. In some areas the laws change more frequently than others.. However as far as I know he might take a week or a weekend once a year to get caught up on them, not much time when one is immortal.. As a practicing lawyer, he already knows the law, reading and understanding the fine points of a new law or change shouldn't take all that long.One's field of practice doesn't affect one's jurisdiction's CLE requirements. (I know some field's require certain CLE's be taken, but the overall number doesn't change). It's not necessarily about staying on top of things; it is necessarily about meeting state mandated requirements.
I think the main point is Mab thinks like a very good lawyer.I do think that was Jim's point. He said "some of the fae ... they understand codes." These fae would be natural lawyers. They wouldn't need law school, training, or much practice to be effective practitioners of mortal law. Which does go to my original point of bringing up that Mab is a lawyer. Those fae would be good at handling a bureaucracy.
Perhaps Europe has another rules too. I won't be surprised if Mab has a British identity, so Shakesperean.I have no idea what the rules are in the various European states. I'm sure they're different in each one. I'm also sure Mab has interests in all of them.
Things are turning towards an apocalypse now but normally immortals have loads of time.But do they have loads of free time?
But do they have loads of free time?
I felt my eyes get wide. “An immune system . . . What happens if it . . . you know, if it breaks down for a bit?”
“Pardon?” the Gatekeeper asked.
“Uh, it gets a glitch. Like, if somebody new took over or something and things had to reorganize around here . . .”
“Most years, it would pose no major difficulty,” he said.
“What about this year?”
“This year,” he said, “it could be problematic.”
“Problematic.”
You have to wonder, who could bring a legal action against Mab? How could a process server serve her? And what court has jurisdiction in the Never Never.
One's field of practice doesn't affect one's jurisdiction's CLE requirements. (I know some field's require certain CLE's be taken, but the overall number doesn't change). It's not necessarily about staying on top of things; it is necessarily about meeting state mandated requirements.
... I'm still vehemently of the opinion that Mab's time could be better spent.And I reiterate that, with Nevernever-based time dilation available, Mab doesn't have to lose any "time" to this project.
But how much time are talking practically speaking? Just looked it up, if Google is correct we are talking 3 to 9 hours per reporting period.. Not a huge amount of time, it didn't say whether it had to be done all at once either. So if Mab could spare the time to go to the opera or a sporting event with Sarissa in the past, keeping her law license current wouldn't be a big deal.It usually doesn't have to be all at once and definitely doesn't if it's a video/audio recorded CLE. The the typical range is 10 to 15 hours with about six exceptions. Alaska and Hawaii at 3, and D.C., Maryland, Mass., and Michigan having no requirements. https://www.lorman.com/Minimum-CLE-Hours-by-State (https://www.lorman.com/Minimum-CLE-Hours-by-State)
And I reiterate that, with Nevernever-based time dilation available, Mab doesn't have to lose any "time" to this project.I have a feeling the Nevernever-based time dilation isn't ever that clean. I don't see any other instance in any of Jim's worlds where someone gets something for nothing. There's always a cost.
She is immortal -- she has unlimited lifespan to spend. Real-world time progresses inexorably, so she has THAT limit (and I agree that's something she can't squander). But she can spend an arbitrarily-small amount of that time by using a very-dilated bit of the Nevernever, because her lifetime has no end.
My point has never been that Mab can't do it. It's that it doesn't seem like a good deal for her. She's getting less out of it than she's putting in.
CEO's don't litigate. Ever. No matter how good a Attorney they might be. The Outsiders could care less about the legal system and that is Mab's focus. Her word is law in the Never Never, no Judges required. If she's litigating it's wasted time. She has lackeys. As many of them as she needs.
CEO's don't litigate. Ever. No matter how good a Attorney they might be.This. It's pointless.
I think you could be mistaken there, as we've learned Mab has a reason for every move she makes.Yeah, but she's a fictional character written by a fallible writer.
This. It's pointless.Or maybe it is just a hobby? After a long knight of torturing disloyal winter knights she calls Lea to tell her she has to stop playing with her dogs and watch the border while she is torturing someone on a completely different way in a courtroom.
Yeah, but she's a fictional character written by a fallible writer.Who prefers to find ways to make his mistakes work.
Or maybe it is just a hobby? After a long knight of torturing disloyal winter knights she calls Lea to tell her she has to stop playing with her dogs and watch the border while she is torturing someone on a completely different way in a courtroom.
Really not everything is work for her. Sometimes she hurts Harry for spite.
It might actually be useful to have a human cover. Who prefers to find ways to make his mistakes work.
As part of a plot, I can't see it. But then again, he is going to write a book about wrestlers who are gods of one kind or another, so who knows. And one of his protagonists was a porn actress.The logical thing to do for a white court vampire and maybe the logical thing to do for Mab is practice law. It is in her nature. She has to do it.
Phew. Got through this entire thread. It's amusing how some people seem to know more than Jim Butcher about his own story. You can't fill in the blanks in a sketch like this and then write pages about how your filled blanks must be mistakes by Jim. Yikes.
19 pages out of 600 word short story. You nerds.In my opinion, it's a 600-word short story with implications way beyond any other short he's ever written, with the possible exception of Backup and the explanation of the Oblivion War. This story puts Morgan's actions across the whole series in a totally new light and implies a level of familiarity that's totally unaddressed in the main series, and likely never will be. I mean, just that Morgan knew about Nemesis 10-20 years ago is a big deal, let alone the idea that he was supposed to look out for Harry because he promised Margaret.
Zoo Day is a short story in the Dresden Files series by Jim Butcher. It is set at the same time of Day One, and is in turn narrated by Harry Dresden, Margaret Angelica Dresden and Mouse. It is included in the anthology Brief Cases.https://dresdenfiles.fandom.com/wiki/Zoo_Day (https://dresdenfiles.fandom.com/wiki/Zoo_Day)
... Mostly the whole thing is stories we've heard a hundred times. (If I'm going to go to the effort of seeing someone in person, I'm going to have looked them up on Youtube and not ask a question that's been asked a hundred times) ...
Ah, I totally forgot about that. I have not read it (I did not buy Brief Cases). Thank youAt the risk of calling down Hellfire, you really didn't miss much.
At the risk of calling down Hellfire, you really didn't miss much.I am not a fan of Maggie's existence, so I decided not to buy Brief Cases just for a story about her (I have all the others, I believe)
I am not a fan of Maggie's existence, so I decided not to buy Brief Cases just for a story about her (I have all the others, I believe)
Ah, I totally forgot about that. I have not read it (I did not buy Brief Cases). Thank you
Mostly the whole thing is stories we've heard a hundred times. (If I'm going to go to the effort of seeing someone in person, I'm going to have looked them up on Youtube and not ask a question that's been asked a hundred times).Typical. Let me guess:
Typical. Let me guess:It's surprising how old the questions are. A lot of the questions/answers here seemed focused on writing as opposed to plot.
"Did you plan out the series from the start?"
"Did you know that Harry was going to become the Winter Knight?"
"Wow! Molly's the Winter Lady! Did you know that was going to happen?"
It's surprising how old the questions are. A lot of the questions/answers here seemed focused on writing as opposed to plot.