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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Jeckel on June 11, 2010, 05:15:10 AM
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Stunts are something I'm going to need a lot of. My players tend to latch onto small things - draw a gun fast and train horses being two examples - and build great rp out of them. Stunts seem to be a wonderful (and it seems the intended) way to represent such things.
I'm going to post stunts as examples and to get feedback to make sure I'm following the rules. If anyone else has stunts they need help with or just want to post up feel free, it's always nice to see what other people put together.
Here are a few stunts for an upcoming rp. Its a small intro campaign in about 1878 and focuses around a gunfighter and a horse trainer.
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Guns
Quick-Draw Artist: When a gun is easily accessible drawing barely rates an after-thought. No penalty is taken when a gun is drawn as a supplemental action (page YS:213) and any contest having to do with your ability or speed of drawing a firearm receive a +1 on the roll.
Dual-Wielding Gunslinger: A gun in each hand throws more lead down range, but you have to know how to do it. Normally, you may only take the damage bonus from one gun on a successful hit; with this stunt, you may add half of the second firearm's bonus as well (round up).
Disarming Shot: Why don't you just shoot the weapon out of his hand? Disarming (page YS:208) a target by use of a firearm gains a +2 (gain +1 instead if disarming with a gunshot is "a bit silly" in your story) to the Guns roll.
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Survival
Animal Trainer (Specify): Go on, you know you want to whisper to it. Gain +1 when rolling Survival for Animal Handling or, where relevant, Riding (page 143) when dealing with a particular broad type of animal (birds, dogs, cats, horses) specified at the time you take this stunt. For efforts related to training the specified animal type, gain an additional +1 bonus or decrease the time need by one increment.
Strip the Flesh: Careful, don't sour the meat. Experienced at dressing a carcass, you gain +2 on Survival rolls related to acquiring usable materials from a body.
EDIT: Updated stunts as advised by posts.
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Animal Trainer is, I think, a bit too powerful.
Disarming Shot should grant a +2 bonus if disarming with a gun is something normally allowed. If it's not allowed, then it works fine as is.
Rapid Fire is a little too powerful. Having it grant Spray Attacks is fine, but the +1 on top of that is too much.
Other than that, they look good, though I suspect you meant Dual-wielding, not Duel-Wielding. ;)
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Dual-Wielding: I would have the damage of the second gun round down instead of up. With heavy revolvers the damage of the two guns would end up at 5 and that seems a bit to strong to me. Apart from that I'm with Deadmanwalking.
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Dual Welding (Craftsmanship): You can complete any welding related task two time increments faster.
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Dual-Wielding: I would have the damage of the second gun round down instead of up. With heavy revolvers the damage of the two guns would end up at 5 and that seems a bit to strong to me. Apart from that I'm with Deadmanwalking.
It's taken directly from the "Off-Hand Weapon Training" stunt in YS (156).
The Damage is rounded up there, why shouldn't it be here ?
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It's taken directly from the "Off-Hand Weapon Training" stunt in YS (156).
The Damage is rounded up there, why shouldn't it be here ?
Because we are talking guns here. Granted there are Guns too that might be Weapon: 1 but it's unlikely you'd dual-wield them (small hold outs etc.). The "Off-Hand Weapon Training" Stunt is for weapons that use the Weapons Skill, witch includes daggers and knifes that would go to Weapon: 0 if rounded down. Thats not the case here. If anything I'd say that, as there is no Weapon: 0, it should remain at 1 anyways.
A +2 is absolutely not in par with the Stunt rules in my opinion, not if we are talking a passive effect. If a Fate Point has to be spend, now that's an other story.
Give a +2 to a specific application of a nonattack or defense trapping (note that a maneuver, page 207, is not an attack, as it doesn’t inflict stress). This may be reduced to +1 for a broader application, or increased to +3 or even +4 for very, very narrowly defined situations. Example: Vampirologist – Gain a +1 to Lore rolls whenever researching vampires and their kin. Specify a deeper sub-field of knowledge (Red Court), and you gain an additional +1 when the research is relevant to the sub-field.
Give a +1 to an attack, improving its accuracy under a specific circumstance. Example: Target-Rich Environment – Gain a +1 to attacks with Guns whenever personally outnumbered in firefight. (YW148)
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A +2 is totally reasonable, because it's +2 Weapon Rating, not +2 to hit. The second is outside the realm of possibilities as reasonable...the first is provided by Lethal Weapon under fists. That's only applicable sometimes...but then, this is only applicable sometimes too.
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Nevertheless this might apply... hmm
Give a +2 to an attack’s result, applied only if the attack was successful, under particular conditions. Example: Lethal Weapon – Requires the Martial Arts stunt. Your hands are lethal weapons. When using Fists to strike an unarmored opponent, you are considered to have Weapon:2.
Nevermind I stand corrected. Cool Stunt then. Need it!
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@Deadmanwalking
For disarming shot I was going off the line "Any attack skill could be used to do this (except maybe Guns, because that’s a bit silly)." when I choose +1, but I'll at least add some text to the stunt, maybe put in parentheses "(only +1 if disarming with a gun is silly in your game)". I know my player will thank-you since he will now be getting a +2 instead of +1. ;)
OP Edited: Added the text.
Good catch on the Rapid Fire, it started out being called "Dead-eye" with completely different effects and that +1 was a hold over that should have been deleted.
OP Edited: Fixed.
Doh! I thought you were correcting the capitalization of the 'w' in 'wielding', but after I read it a few times I noticed the actual problem. Thanks man, I'm not a very good speller, and if spell-check doesn't check it I'm just SOL. :p
OP Edited: Fixed. And I learned the Duel and Dual are spelled differently.
@Papa Gruff
Well, in the time that I was typing my response to your initial post, it all got kinda answered. I'll just add that, in my games, I would use a slightly higher difficulty to hit for someone using two .45 revolvers or desert eagles then I would for someone with two glocks or 38s. After that, if they hit then more power to them for dealing a butt-load of stress. Just my two house-ruled cents. :)
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For Animal Trainer, what if it was something like "For efforts related to training the specified animal type, gain an additional +1 bonus or decrease the time need by one increment.", still have the ability to train faster or even better, but not both?
Alternatively, forget the decrease in training time as mentioned, leaving just the +2 on training actions. If a fate point was spent as part of the stunt, what sort of bonus could be gained from that, is it just another +1 or a full +2 worth of benefit?
Also, could someone give me a page reference for where they discuss creating stunts that have the option to spend a fate point for more effect, I have look and must just be missing it. :-[
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Animal Trainer: Yeah, that sounds about right, go for it.
Fate Point Utilizing Stunts: I'm pretty sure there are no specific rules, actually. Though tacking a +2 on top of whatever the effect would be if it didn't cost a Fate Point seems to be a good barometer.
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Nevertheless this might apply... hmm
Nevermind I stand corrected. Cool Stunt then. Need it!
So little Rosie will soon have a sister then ? *g*
@all to clarify: Yep... PG had his Char name his Gun "Rose"
And now I'll stop derailing this thread :-)
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Card Shark- Get +1 to deceit when involved in a game of cards, also -1 to the difficulty of stacking the deck in your favor. (What's a wild west game without a poker game?)
Fearsome Wanted Poster- Gain +1 to intimidation and +1 to seduction.
Lived with the Natives- Gain +2 to stealth if not in a settlement.
Thought I killed you?- Gain 1 armor against guns.
Saloon Brawler- +1 to weapons and can make improvised weapons out of items in a saloon (Chairs, Bottles, Trophy Moose Head...) at weapon power 1.
Road Agent's Spin- Allows a character to offer to surrender his or her weapon if it is already drawn, but instead shoot whoever is trying to take the gun.
Hope this helps. :)
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Fearsome Wanted Poster is not a valid stunt, as it provides bonuses to two separate skills (and one of them far too broad).
Road Agent's Spin is...not well defined mechanically. While a good idea, a better set of mechanics is definitely in order.
The others look good, though.
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Fearsome wanted poster should specify which trapping of intimidation gets the +1, and should give the circumstances when the stunt is applicable, such as when someone has heard of the characters reputation.
Lived with the Natives needs to specify the trapping of stealth that gets the +2 bonus. You don't just get a blanket +2 to everything you do with stealth outside of settlements
Saloon Brawler is almost two stunts, the ability to make use of improvised weapons, and the blanket +1 to weapons (which needs to be limited to specific circumstances anyways)
Road Agent's Spin doesn't actually say what it does. It just describes a cinematic effect.
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Saloon Brawler is almost two stunts, the ability to make use of improvised weapons, and the blanket +1 to weapons (which needs to be limited to specific circumstances anyways)
Personally, I interpretted it as the ability to use random objects as Weapon: 1 weapons, and a +1 to Weapons when using such things...which isn't unreasonable, IMO. Still, you're right that it should be clearer.
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I'd say that Saloon Brawler should provide a +1 to Weapons skill when using improvised weapons, with damage appropriate to the weapon in question. A +1 to an attack skill is huge, roughly equivalent to a +2 to damage, and IMO shouldn't be combined with setting a damage floor, or a damage cap when it comes to it (some improvised weapons should probably do Weapon:2, but they'd be rather few and far between).
Oh, and once the weapon stops being improvised the player stops getting the bonus. It's one thing when Charles McGee picks up a miner's pick axe and uses it in a fight, there's an element of surprise. This element is lost when opponents are fighting Pickaxe McGee.
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Nimble on Two Wheels (Athletics): Use Athletics instead of Driving when attempting maneuvers on a motorcycle.
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Got some more stunts. They are based on some of the ones posted by DesertCoyote and take what was posted after into account. Thanx for the ideas and Card Shark is awesome, I'm definitely using that in my next session. 8)
Deceit
(based on 'Road Agent's Spin')
Sure, I Give Up: Whether it's something in your voice, a trick with your weapon, or something similar, you have a knack for feigning surrender and turning it into an attack. When disguised as surrender, Deceit may be used to make a physical attack, replacing the appropriate skill (Fists, Guns, Weapons). When successful, the spending of a fate point grants an additional 2 shifts. Few people would fall for this trick twice, and a good justification should be given to even make the attempt.
Stealth
(based on 'Lived with the Natives', based off of 'Blend In')
Native of the Land (Specify): The land and you are as one. If there is a sufficient way to hide in the surroundings, gain +2 to your Stealth rolls for a particular broad type of environ (desert, forest, grassland, jungle) specified when this stunt is taken. This is particularly useful when Shadowing (page YS:143) someone through your chosen habitat.
Weapons
(based on 'Saloon Brawler')
Barroom Brawler: Even a spoon is dangerous in your hands. When using improvised weapons taken from the current location (chairs, bottles, utensils, pool-cue) receive +1 to Weapons skill. Common items used as weapons don't tend to last very long, any given item lasting no longer then the current scene and some surviving no more then a single blow.
Nimble on Two Wheels (Athletics): Use Athletics instead of Driving when attempting maneuvers on a motorcycle.
Nice, that looks like a good one. I know my NPCs would like it as my players really enjoy running down motorcycle-bad-guys with big metal cars. ;)
Fate Point Utilizing Stunts: I'm pretty sure there are no specific rules, actually. Though tacking a +2 on top of whatever the effect would be if it didn't cost a Fate Point seems to be a good barometer.
I have barely touched Our World, but the only thing I have found on fate points and stunts is YS:149, the last one in the list.
Get a more powerful effect, but only when you spend a fate point. Usually only allowed once per scene.
Example: Killer Blow – Add 3 to the damage of a Fists attack on a successful hit, once per scene, for a fate point. This stacks with any other damage-increasing stunts for Fists.
I going to use the "handle with care" approach for now.
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I love the idea of Sure, I give up :) Two quick thoughts on it though.
1. I would change 'Deceit may replace Guns' to 'You may use your deceit skill when rolling to attack'. I'd also say it's worth noting that the stunt can only be used once in any given scene unless there is very good reason. Someone is unlikely to fall for it twice.
2. I don't think you need to mention the aspect use, I think any character with this stunt should have a relevant aspect or high-concept they can use anyway and those that don't probably shouldn't get the +2 bonus. For instance 'Now you wouldn't hit a man with glasses' or 'please don't hurt me mister' or even 'argh, my{moderate consequence}, I can't move!'. A big bruiser type wouldn't be able to make someone believe without a good reason, if they have a high deceit skill they've probably got a good reason in their aspects already and if they don't then they don't deserve the +2 anyway.
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Here's another one;
Stage Combat (Performance): You've studied fencing as part of your training as an actor. In combat, you may use Performance instead of Weapons.
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Too broad. You'd need to pick a specific trapping, or (more likely) duplicate Armed Arts from Fists and pick one or two weapons specifically.
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Trying to come up with a couple for a McGyver type character, how are these?
Ball Point Pen, Stick of Chewing Gum, and a Paperclip: You can use the Craftsmanship skill in place of the Investigation skill when searching for resources to improvise a tool that you need.
I Can Build Anything I Need: When Improvising a tool in a rushed situation, gain +1 on the roll to create the tool, and finish the construction 1 time increment faster.
would love to hear other ideas for McGyver type stunts too, thanks
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Here's another one;
Stage Combat (Performance): You've studied fencing as part of your training as an actor. In combat, you may use Performance instead of Weapons.
Too broad. You'd need to pick a specific trapping, or (more likely) duplicate Armed Arts from Fists and pick one or two weapons specifically.
Yeah, that occurred to me after I posted it. I was also thinking that since stage combat is primarily meant to simulate weapons combat, it shouldn't really replace weapons entirely. How about;
Stage Combat (Performance): You can use Performance instead of Weapons when performing a maneuver or defensive action with an appropriate weapon.
Or alternatively, it could be designed to allow Performance to compliment Weapons, giving a +1 to that skill.
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Yeah, that occurred to me after I posted it. I was also thinking that since stage combat is primarily meant to simulate weapons combat, it shouldn't really replace weapons entirely. How about;
Stage Combat (Performance): You can use Performance instead of Weapons when performing a maneuver or defensive action with an appropriate weapon.
There's no need to add the maneuver capability, maneuvers in combat are not restricted to combat skills, so I'd say that's allowed in any case.
As for defense, that would be one trapping transferred from one skill to another. Which in one of the standard applications of stunts.
I'd say that's appropriate for a stunt.
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Ball Point Pen, Stick of Chewing Gum, and a Paperclip: You can use the Craftsmanship skill in place of the Investigation skill when searching for resources to improvise a tool that you need.
I Can Build Anything I Need: When Improvising a tool in a rushed situation, gain +1 on the roll to create the tool, and finish the construction 1 time increment faster.
I'd add a +2 bonus to the first stunt since it's such a narrow application - you're taking part of a trapping - and I'd dropped the "rushed situation" requirement from the second for the same reason.
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Hammer of Faith: You may use Conviction to threaten enemies, rather then Intimidation. Against creatures with Toughness powers that have a faith-based Catch, the context of power is always favorable.
Mastercraft: You may use Craftsmanship to apply temporary Aspects to items. This requires at least an hour and success as if you were attempting to fix the item in question. Aspects applied this way last for one scene of active use (they do not expire until used) and grant one free tag. You may have a number of Aspects applied this way equal to your Craftsmanship rating at one time, and if you have more then one Aspect on an item, only one can be tagged per exchange. However, an item with multiple Aspects requires only one hour and one success total to reapply identical Aspects, rather then an hour for each.
Wild Instincts: Against Fists attacks made by nonsentient beings, you may use Survival as a defense, and add +2 to your roll.
The Dead-Eye: When making a spray attack with fully automatic firearms, add +1 to each roll. You can make spray attacks with semi-automatic firearms. If you are wielding two semi-auto firearms, add +1 to each roll.
Swordbreaker: When using a metal melee weapon, you can make a special Weapons maneuver at +1 against your opponent. Shifts from this maneuver are compared to his weapon's rating; if the maneuver has more shifts then the weapon's rating, you may break his weapon. If you fail by more then your own weapon's rating, your weapon breaks. Opponents defend with Weapons or Athletics, whichever is higher.
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Wild Instincts is too powerful of a stunt. Dead-Eye seems to have a non-standard reading of the rules. What do you mean by "add +1 toeach roll"?
Swordbreaker I'm iffy about. It seems to add a new trapping, and give a bonus to it at once.
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Wild Instincts is too powerful of a stunt. Dead-Eye seems to have a non-standard reading of the rules. What do you mean by "add +1 toeach roll"?
Swordbreaker I'm iffy about. It seems to add a new trapping, and give a bonus to it at once.
Wild Instincts applies in an extremely narrow situation - you have to be attacked by an unarmed being that can't pass PHL101. Mostly this is gonna be animals and supernatural guard dog equivalents.
You're right on Dead-Eye, I meant add +1 to each ATTACK. This exceeds two shifts of effect as soon as you target more then two opponents, but then again you're still lowering your attack pool - just more slowly.
Swordbreaker can also turn badly for you - on a failure that's dire enough, you lose your weapon. The bonus softens that. Also, the opponent gets to pick their defense.
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Here's another one;
Stage Combat (Performance): You've studied fencing as part of your training as an actor. In combat, you may use Performance instead of Weapons.
As you mention later, stage combat is a simulation of actual combat, not the real thing. For instance, while the scene at the top of the Cliffs of Insanity in Princess Bride ("I'm not left handed either") is a great example of 'Flynning', it is exactly that and not actual combat. Stage performers try to make it look interesting, but they aren't actually learning how to attack or defend.
You mentioned allowing performance to compliment weapons, which sounds like a better way to play this. I would say you get a + to the skill (or allow it to bypass some of the enemy's defence). You could also make an intimidation stunt based around the same flavor... intimidate bonus by using performance with your weapon (the ole six-shooter draw/spin/holster/draw trick or fancy flourish with a sword).
Actually 'Weapon Flourish' wouldn't be a bad name for that - maybe a +2 to intimidate an opponent? I'd have to go back and look at the related skill to get more detailed there...
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Just a quick note. I've been compiling all the new stunts in the Our World book and it seems that my Rapid Fire stunt is very similar to the Blaze Away stunt on OW:221, except the latter is defined simply as "You can use any firearm to make a spray attack, even one not normally capable of doing so." I personally prefer my version as the OW one seems to broad, but thought I would point it out now that I noticed it.
Seeing some nice stuff in here, gives me lots of ideas about plots to use the stunts. :)
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Just a quick note. I've been compiling all the new stunts in the Our World book and it seems that my Rapid Fire stunt is very similar to the Blaze Away stunt on OW:221, except the latter is defined simply as "You can use any firearm to make a spray attack, even one not normally capable of doing so." I personally prefer my version as the OW one seems to broad, but thought I would point it out now that I noticed it.
Spray attacks seem inherently situational and often come 'free' on certain varieties of guns, so I can see not charging too much for the ability.
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Spray attacks seem inherently situational and often come 'free' on certain varieties of guns, so I can see not charging too much for the ability.
True, but it is also pretty tough to do a spay attack with guns that don't do it for you... but thematically I have to agree that the cost to value is fair on their version.
What I am thinking is to change my stunt to do something like, "Requires Blaze Away. On a successful spray-attack with a firearm normally incapable of doing so, gain 2 shifts to the roll."
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I love the idea of Sure, I give up :) Two quick thoughts on it though.
Thanks, I do to. Already working up a NPC to use it in my next session. :)
1. I would change 'Deceit may replace Guns' to 'You may use your deceit skill when rolling to attack'. I'd also say it's worth noting that the stunt can only be used once in any given scene unless there is very good reason. Someone is unlikely to fall for it twice.
Done and done. I kept the wording a little more general then once a scene, but the same concept comes across.
2. I don't think you need to mention the aspect use, I think any character with this stunt should have a relevant aspect or high-concept they can use anyway and those that don't probably shouldn't get the +2 bonus. For instance 'Now you wouldn't hit a man with glasses' or 'please don't hurt me mister' or even 'argh, my{moderate consequence}, I can't move!'. A big bruiser type wouldn't be able to make someone believe without a good reason, if they have a high deceit skill they've probably got a good reason in their aspects already and if they don't then they don't deserve the +2 anyway.
I agree it is likely that a lot of characters with a high skill will have an aspect, high or otherwise, that relates to that skill, but one doesn't require the other. Either way, spending a fate point as part of a stunt is justification enough for an extra 2 shifts on a successful attack, at least in my opinion.
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Just a quick note. I've been compiling all the new stunts in the Our World book...
Any chance of us seeing that compiled list? It would be a great benefit to the community at large.
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Any chance of us seeing that compiled list? It would be a great benefit to the community at large.
Ah, there is more then a chance, but not right now. Probably some time in July, but definitely not before the books are officially released, that would just seem like an abuse of the preorder pdfs. That said, I might write up a quick list of the stunt names and their page numbers to post in this thread, but it will prob be a few days, as my plate is a little full in real life. :)
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Here's one that might be really nice for wizards or other high discipline characters.
Zen Shooting: (Discipline) You train your Mind by way of the ancient art of Zen Shooting, using (insert Weapon here).
You may use Discipline to use one type of non automatic gun (Pistols, Rifles etc.) or archaic weapon (Bows, Crossbows, Throwing Knives, Throwing Spears etc.).
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Street Fighter
You can have two minor concequences you can only take when taking damage in a fistfight.
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"Don't Let That Go Into You" (Might) (http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp06042010.shtml)
If an enemy uses exposition immediately prior to attacking you with a edged or sharp weapon (knives, swords, spears, claws, teeth, etc.) you may sacrifice your next action to initiate a grapple (their exposition is treated as the aspect you would otherwise invoke for effect to start a grapple).
Part 2 (http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp06052010.shtml) Part 3 (http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp06062010.shtml)
Notes: This does seem pretty weak if it requires them to monologue before hand. Maybe allow the grapple attempt to preempt the actual attack? However, this was mostly submitted in jest and isn't meant to be taken seriously.
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@JosephKell
Heh, nice, gave me a good chuckle. :p
Any chance of us seeing that compiled list? It would be a great benefit to the community at large.
Ok, here is the Stunts Page (http://www.vinlandsolutions.site11.com/Products/DFRPG/Stunts.html) with all the stunts from the books listed with page references. For the moment the stunt descriptions are hidden, they will be shown on the 30th of this month or a few days after. For now at least you don't have to scroll through the book trying to find the new stunts, believe me it wasn't the high-light of my life. ;)
There are also a few custom stunts in the list, and when rotation comes back around more will be added, but if you want to quickly find Your Story stunts search for YS: and for Our World stunts search for OW: as each page reference is prefixed with one of those.
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Working Artist
You can use your Performance skill rather than your Resorces to determine your lifestyle.
Big Sale
Requires Working Artist
Once per session you can use your Performance skill to Buy Things or make your Money Talk.
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Ok, I think I've come up with a few controversial ideas for a new character I'm working on, a steampunk genius on the run from the government. All the stunts are very thematic and I think they are balanced but let me know what you think.
Scholarship Stunt: Occult encyclopedia
Constant access to a secret government database on the supernatural
May use Scholarship instead of Lore when 'Arcane Researching'. YS134
Craftsmanship: 19th Century tech, 20th Century solutions
Can make useful items and weapons with steampunk technology (clockwork, pneumatic power, no electricity)
Items created by PC count as +4 higher on the Hexing Table and are immune to accidental hexing (YS258)
Craftmanship: Scrapheap Challenge
PC is an expert at building a solution to a problem
Building or repairing takes two time increments less. (When using his own workshop only? Is that needed? It still takes ages to build anything really effective)
Stealth: Ghost in the system - this is the one that might need the most work, it's a new trapping.
With years of experience living off the radar and knowledge of the goverments methods, the PC is constantly covering his tracks and spotting the security cameras before they spot him.
Hiding in all it's forms, covering your tracks, hiding from surveillance, hiding from agents, seeming inconspicuous.
Guns: My baby boomer
After lovingly creating the weapon from the ground up, the PC knows every trick and sweet-spot
When using guns created or heavily modified by PC, gain +1 to attack.
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Thanks for taking a look at them, as you can see they're still work in progress (I'm not happy with all the names for a start!) but I don't think they are broken and I'm pretty sure they match the rules for creating stunts. However if you can see any problems, or just a more elegant solution, that'd be great.
Thanks!
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19th Century Tech, 20th Century Solutions is too powerful. +4?! Make it +2 and it'll be fairly balanced.
Ghost In The System has no mechanics, what does it do, what do you want it to do?
On Occult Encyclopedia, I'd note that it only applies as long as you have access to the database.
The others look good as is, though.
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The +4 against hexing is based on the suggestion for building a stunt where it says a particularly narrow bonus can be +3 or even +4. I wasn't sure how narrow this would be though. Does deliberate hexing come up a lot? Bear in mind that level of tech is around a 7 power hex. Still it might well be a lot, it hasn't come up in my other game at all.
Ghost in the system is a trapping to achive those effects, rolling stealth like you would normal hiding, at a difficulty of the gm's discretion. Does it need more then?
Agreed on the encyclopedia. What do you think of the construction stunt? Does it need his own workshop? Or is any ok?
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The +4 against hexing is based on the suggestion for building a stunt where it says a particularly narrow bonus can be +3 or even +4. I wasn't sure how narrow this would be though. Does deliberate hexing come up a lot? Bear in mind that level of tech is around a 7 power hex. Still it might well be a lot, it hasn't come up in my other game at all.
Well, it's narrow, but the immunity to accidental Hexing is almost worth a Stunt in it's own right, hence my opinion that a +2 is more reasonable.
Ghost in the system is a trapping to achive those effects, rolling stealth like you would normal hiding, at a difficulty of the gm's discretion. Does it need more then?
Uh, yeah. Alot more. Those are all stuff Stealth should be able to do anyway, IMO. In fact, they all definitely fall under Skulking or Shadowing. Well, except maybe looking inconspicuous, that might in theory be Deceit, I suppose, but in any case it's certainly not enough on it's own.
Agreed on the encyclopedia. What do you think of the construction stunt? Does it need his own workshop? Or is any ok?
Nah, that one's good without a Workshop.
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Stealth: Ghost in the system - this is the one that might need the most work, it's a new trapping.
With years of experience living off the radar and knowledge of the goverments methods, the PC is constantly covering his tracks and spotting the security cameras before they spot him.
Hiding in all it's forms, covering your tracks, hiding from surveillance, hiding from agents, seeming inconspicuous.
Spotting cameras before they film you seems more like an Alertness thing.
But this could also be done with declarations, right? "*put fate point on the table* That camera is turned, it doesn't quite see the entire zone, so I stick to the blind spots. *roll Alertness*"
Or it might be a use of whatever skill is related to cameras (if you know the camera details, you can better estimate the field of view). Is that Scholarship (like computer use is?) or Performance? Investigation?
If it is a declaration, then no stunt is required, just a fate point.
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The part about seeing cameras before they see you seems like ghost in the system could simply be giving stealth the casing the joint trapping of burglary. That would work
For 19th century tech, 20th century Solutions, I'd give it a +4 against hexing, but absolutely no immunity to accidental hexing. Compelling an accidental hex on one of these items should be discouraged, but I'm against anything that negates the risk of a wizard hexing some of his own equipment.
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For 19th century tech, 20th century Solutions, I'd give it a +4 against hexing, but absolutely no immunity to accidental hexing. Compelling an accidental hex on one of these items should be discouraged, but I'm against anything that negates the risk of a wizard hexing some of his own equipment.
I'd be okay with that version as well, it's the combination of the two (the full +4 and immunity to accidental Hexing) that's a bit over the top.
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Ah, yeah that's fair enough. I had originally written it as just +4, but as I wrote it in the forum I realised that didn't protect me from a friendly focused practioner sneezing in my direction and wrecking everything (which just doesn't make sense). So if I took just the +4 then perhaps they could be hexed accidently on a rare occasion with my character invoking his aspect (and spending a fate point) to declare that it still works, or perhaps it requires just the tiniest of adjustments to repair.
Oh and totally Luminos, wizards shouldn't be immune to it, however my character is pure mortal and is built around protecting himself from supernatural effects.
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For Ghost in the System, while spotting that you hadn't expected would be an alertness roll. Continually looking for cameras, expecting them to be there, and having a general knowledge of the best places they would be (and what the different types are capable of doing) would far exceed an alertness trapping. In the same way, while stealth covers hiding, it doesn't cover the ability to leave a scene exactly as it was found without leaving any incrimidating evidence. I could always just declare that my character doesn't leave any fingerprint or attract attention or whatever, but this is a skill he's learned over years and so it makes sense to include as part of stealth.
Think of the character 'Brill' in Enemy of the State, it's taking the idea of hiding to a whole new level and while my character does have aspects of paranoia and so forth, it does feel like it's a developed skill.
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For Ghost in the System, while spotting that you hadn't expected would be an alertness roll. Continually looking for cameras, expecting them to be there, and having a general knowledge of the best places they would be (and what the different types are capable of doing) would far exceed an alertness trapping.
No, that very specifically is a burglary trapping.
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Yeah, the more you talk about it, the more it feels like maybe you should just have it do the reverse of Cat Burglar and add the Casing the Joint and Infiltration trappings of Burglary to Stealth. That plus Stealth itself should cover most everything.
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I can't help but feel that I'm using stealth for it's defensive benefits only and that burglary is definitely an offensive skill. My character won't be breaking in to high-security buildings, he'll be avoiding them like the plague!
Still, I guess I could remove the 'Shadowing' trapping from stealth to balance out the two trappings taken from burglary. I can't help but feel that I'm not explaining this properly however.
For instance, my character walks in to a shop to buy some supplies (paying cash only of course). He picks up the objects he needs, his peak cap and high collar concealing his face without looking at all conspicuous, never allowing any of the possible cameras they might have from getting a good look at his face. He doesn't have time to 'case the joint' and he's not looking to break in. As he walks back to the car he automatically dips his head at all the right times, avoids leaving fingerprints, walking quickly enough to not have people bother him but not so quickly he'll attract attention. The car is parked in such a way that the number-plate (licence) can't be seen by any cameras but so that he can get away quickly if needed.
You could argue that he is using some skills useful to burglary, to deceit, to performance, to alertness and so survival. He also tends to notice people trailing him which could be alertness, investigation or even empathy. However he doesn't have all of those skills, he just has the ability to hide from one thing specifically - the government.
I don't even plan on him actually doing that much hiding or ambushing because that's not in his character so I could just give him the burglary skill and a 'hide' trapping for that, but that fits even worse. Any thoughts? Perhaps some kind of 'Urban Survival'? Or an 'Anti-Investigation'/'Anti-Alertness' route? Or a modification of the Disguise trapping for Deceit? After a lot of thought I felt stealth fit the most but let me know?
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Just because you aren't stealing something doesn't mean you aren't using burglary. Knowledge of security systems, knowing the most likely placements of cameras, all of that stuff is burglary. However, if you want it to be something as broad as your last post describes, you are talking more about an aspect than a stunt.
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Well I could convert some of the burglary trappings instead of creating a new trapping, however they don't really cover all of what I'm trying to do (most of which is purely for flavour, very little can affect a conflict) and it would give me skills that my character wouldn't really have (and these skills would affect gameplay).
Also, he has three aspects relating to this as it's a massive part of the character (one of which is his trouble). So do you think I just shouldn't add a trapping at all then? Hiding from the government seems like a vital skill, but if it's more of an aspect than a skill then I could just drop the whole stealth/burglary thing completely. It seems odd to me, but I hope to play this character in a PbP game on the board at some point and I will use this thread as reference.
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Hmmmm. Most of that sounds like the Distraction and Misdirection Trapping of Deceit, actually. You're not avoiding people's notice in general, just seeming inconspicuous. You could just take a high Deceit, or, well, do something like this.
You could start with Alertness as a base (as that seems to make the most sense) and do the following Stunt:
Avoiding The Watchers (Alertness): You are used to spotting people trying to watch you, and avoiding their notice once you do. You may use Alertness to duplicate the Casing trapping from Burglary and the Distraction and Misdirection trapping from Deceit for purposes of avoiding being noticed only.
Tack on a respectable Stealth (say, Fair) and read through the two Trappings listed and you should be good. Alternately, you could do the same Stunt for Stealth if you do want your character to be able to ambush people in dark alleys, but Alertness makes more sense with the level of paranoia you describe.
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Actually DMW, that does work nicely thank you! I'll have a play with the wording a little and some stats and then post what I can on here, when I've got a minute anyway.
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A few nice stunts in my Batman writeup:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,19290.0.html
Anticipate (can anticipate reactions of anyone faster and prepare to compensate; +1 initiative vs those with speed powers and they don't automatically go first)
Study Weakness (+1 Lore to finding the Catch or other weaknesses of superhuman adversaries. May research even normally "personal" weaknesses)
Always Ready (+1 to making Declarations to have a gadget or small amount of obscure substance helpful to the situation. Up to 3 times/session may make such declarations even when they'd be implausible)
Crazy Prepared (start each session with up to 20 pounds of high-tech gadgets or obscure substances satisfying Catches without having to roll resources)
Gadget Mechanic (as car mechanic but for gadgets)
Reliable Innovation (gadgets Batman makes are always shielded vs electronic warfare and almost never malfunction; use his modified craftsmanship as hexing DC)
The High Ground (enemies take -2 on perception rolls to locate you as long as you are in a higher elevation)
Shadow Dodge (+2 to dodge when standing in darkness)
Evasion (if hit, takes up to 2 less stress from extra shifts in area attacks)
Brains Over Superbrawn (attackers with Strength powers take -1 attack and -1 dodge when fighting Batman in melee as their own strength is used against them)
One-Man Army (when personally outnumbered, +1 to your melee attacks)
Counterblow (as Riposte, but for fists)
Dual Blow (as off-hand weapon training but for fists-Batman usually uses high weapon rating fist attacks like powered brass knuckles, armored gloves and Batarangs)
Bypass Arcane Defense (blocks with spells or supernatural powers are at -2 strength vs your unarmed attacks)
Find The Gap (you can find a chink or weak spot in most defenses; armor vs your unarmed attacks is treated as 2 lower)
Roll With The Blow (if hit, takes up to 2 less stress from extra shifts in melee attacks)
Counter Superstrength (through special training, Batman has learned how to absorb, roll with and counter superhumanly strong blows; he takes 1/2 extra damage from more than human strength)
Slippery Mind (stealth modifies discipline for mental and social defense)
Training Over Magic (+2 dodge against targeted spells)
Antimagic Training (if hit, takes up to 2 less stress from extra shifts in magical attacks)
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A few custom stunts (and powers) that the players of my New Hawaii based game have asked for (and I've approved and tweaked them)
I'll be adding homebrew powers and stunts here as they are approved.
Home is Where You Make It [-1] This character carries his threshold with him, he may, with or without any special objects, setup a threshold with a value of two given adequate time to prepare (5-15 minutes). If the threshold is being setup in the open, then the size is up to the GM. It can be used to strengthen the existing threshold of a building by one. This power stacks with "Bless this House".
Red Hot Knives [-1] You may increase the weapon rating of your knives by two by filling in one mental stress box, this lasts for a number of exchanges equal to the value of the stress box you've filled in. Increase the bonus to three if you've cast a fire evocation in the last exchange.
Lycanthrope Form (Involuntary Change) [+2] Refresh bonus only when it is not a Full Moon. This lets Lycanthropes be a little more balanced on the other days of the month.
Knife Specialist. You are a master of knives, you may add a +1 bonus to attack rolls when wielding one.
Subordinate. You may stat out a second character, this is a subordinate of yours, and is loyal to you unto death (consider it your own character). He may only have 3 refresh worth of stunts, and 15 skill points with a skill cap of Good (+3). His or Her High Concept must relate to you.
Advanced Subordinate. When you select this stunt, you may advance your subordinate by 3 refresh, and allot him or her 9 more skill points with a skill cap of Great (+4), you must use one of your aspects to describe your relationship with this subordinate.
Phat Bastard: You are a very large individual, even though you cant move around very well, you are harder to hurt because of your sheer mass. You gain one physical stress box, but all athletics rolls are made at a -1 penalty. This stunt, unlike others, costs no refresh.
My Own Mint. You are so rich you almost have a license to print money. Add +1 to all Resources rolls.
Six Degrees To Madison Monroe. You either know somebody, or knows somebody who knows somebody. Add +1 to all Contacts rolls.
Now Hiring. You are in charge of a large business, and are always looking for new employees. Add +1 to all Resources and Contacts rolls for the purposes of Hiring.
The X-Files. You have documents on almost everybody, add +1 to contact rolls for the purposes of declarations and assessments.
Not An Easy Target. You are quick on your feet, and hard to hit, add a +1 to your athletics rolls when dodging attacks.
Smooth Operator. You are quick to like and even quicker to make friends, add +1 to all Rapport attacks you make.
B.F.G. You have a love for big guns, add +1 to guns when using any gun that requires two hands to fire properly.
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Red Hot Knives [-1] You may increase the weapon rating of your knives by two by filling in one mental stress box, this lasts for a number of exchanges equal to the value of the stress box you've filled in. Increase the bonus to three if you've cast a fire evocation in the last exchange.
Going by Incite Emotion, Dual-Wielding, and Claws this is a bit overly expensive, honestly. It could (as a Power, which it clearly is) be +2 stress damage with none of the downsides.
Lycanthrope Form (Involuntary Change) [+2] Refresh bonus only when it is not a Full Moon. This lets Lycanthropes be a little more balanced on the other days of the month.
This is unnecessary. Lycanthropes get a free Compel on their High Concept every time heir powers would be useful, but they don't have them, so 1 per fight. That's better than this and officially sanctioned. They're FP machines when it's not a Full Moon.
Subordinate. You may stat out a second character, this is a subordinate of yours, and is loyal to you unto death (consider it your own character). He may only have 3 refresh worth of stunts, and 15 skill points with a skill cap of Good (+3). His or Her High Concept must relate to you.
Advanced Subordinate. When you select this stunt, you may advance your subordinate by 3 refresh, and allot him or her 9 more skill points with a skill cap of Great (+4), you must use one of your aspects to describe your relationship with this subordinate.
I'd specifically note that the Subordinate doesn't get FP for Compels that hurt him or her to aid the PC, and that they aren't allowed to have positive Refresh, just Stunts or powers. Personally, I wouldn't use Stunts for this at all, but if you do those two things should stop it being abusive to the poor rules.
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Going by Incite Emotion, Dual-Wielding, and Claws this is a bit overly expensive, honestly. It could (as a Power, which it clearly is) be +2 stress damage with none of the downsides.
The character in question is a duel dagger wielding pyromancer. She requested a way to heat up her knives with her magic to do more damage, as it is now, if she attacks with a fire rote she'll be swinging Weapon: 6 daggers for however many exchanges she gets for the mental stress investment. I wanted it to be something that forced her to alternate from one type of action to another (evocation to attack). I think the fact that it allows her to stack more weapon rating on a weapon makes it powerful enough. Consider if she was using two high quality longswords (weapon: 3), she'd be attacking at Weapon: 9 with Off-Hand Training. Also, consider this, the theoretical dagger/longsword could have a high silver content, and be blessed by a priest. Now she is satisfying 4 catches (Cold Iron, Silver, Holy, and Fire), thats really potent.
This is unnecessary. Lycanthropes get a free Compel on their High Concept every time heir powers would be useful, but they don't have them, so 1 per fight. That's better than this and officially sanctioned. They're FP machines when it's not a Full Moon.
The character in question is taking a slightly modified lycanthrope template, it also gets inhuman speed (another two points of refresh it wont have access to outside of a full moon). Also, I think the lycanthrope template sucks, so I threw him a bone because he wants to play one, and who am I to say he cant (aside from his GM :P), Id rather have him be a little stronger than weaker.
Though I should note that the refresh can either be banked or only spent on social or intelligence based stunts, the idea being that when the full moon is around hes more feral and unable to use those stunts, or is more ruled by his nature (and thus has a lower refresh and less fate points)
I'd specifically note that the Subordinate doesn't get FP for Compels that hurt him or her to aid the PC, and that they aren't allowed to have positive Refresh, just Stunts or powers. Personally, I wouldn't use Stunts for this at all, but if you do those two things should stop it being abusive to the poor rules.
Yeah, I agree with all of this. The idea for this is basically, the character is rich and wanted to hire people with resources, I figured that giving him a permanent bodyguard would be ideal. Sort of a Johnny Marcone + Hendrix thing going on. I based it roughly off of the stunts from SotC for companions.
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1. Weapon: 7 actually. And satifying multiple Catches is indeed cool...but nothing she couldn't get with dual-wielding at a Weapon rating only 1 less. I'm not necessarily suggesting dropping the drawback, raising the Weapon bonus to 3 would also serve to balance the ability, IMO.
2. Personally, I'd just go with allowing him to keep the Inhuman Speed all the time, that should solve balance issues and still be thematically sound, IMO. Especially if he's cat-themed.
3. Understood. And yeah, I can see why you'd do it that way, though for me, I'd be inclined to just have the guy be a helpful NPC. Or a PC, if anyone wants to play them.
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How do you get weapon 7 with the daggers? Or where you talking about with the sword?
Two Weapon 4s (Daggers + Hot Knives) should be 4+(4*.5)=6.
Two Weapon 6s (HQ Swords + Hot Knives) should be 6+(6*.5)=9.
Howd you get 7?
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Ah, I see what you're getting at...that's not the order of operations I'd use:
I would add the bonus from Dual Wielding based on the knives or swords normal Weapon rating, then add the Power enhancement. If it actually applies to each knife seperately and the character has Dual-Wielding then my objection is null and void, that's enough of an advantage to cancel the disadvantage.
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Yeah, the player also wants to be able to throw the hot knives, and so I made it apply to both weapons (that way she doesn't loose all the benefit when she chucks her main dagger). I should perhaps clear that up in the text.
The character is going to be pretty cool, in fact, I could see making a character with the hot knives power, myself.
Red Hot Knives [-1] You may increase the weapon rating of each of your knives by two by filling in one mental stress box, this lasts for a number of exchanges equal to the value of the stress box you've filled in. Increase the bonus to three if you've cast a fire evocation in the last exchange.
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Been away from stunts for a bit now, working mostly on characters, but I'm back to compiling stunts together. Will prob pop up with a few for tweaking suggestions at some point, but for now I'm doing the easy, obviously balanced ones first. I must say, there are some really good ones all over the thread, much props to everyone. 8)
Seeing as the books have shipped and at least one of the people in my group should have theirs within a week or so, I went ahead and made the descriptions of canon stunts visible on the stunts page. I also made the canon stunts' text dark red so it is easy to tell them from the fan created ones.
Stunts Page (http://www.vinlandsolutions.site11.com/Products/DFRPG/Stunts.html)
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@ Jeckel I'd be careful making a list like that available to the public. Putting that much stuff verbatim from the DFRPG product might be seen as a copyright violation against Evil Hat.
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@ Jeckel I'd be careful making a list like that available to the public. Putting that much stuff verbatim from the DFRPG product might be seen as a copyright violation against Evil Hat.
I understand what your saying, and the same thoughts have been bubbling around in my mind for quite a while now. I'll lay out the points that won in my mental debates.
1) I'm very conscious of copyrights, if for no other reason then out of respect for developers, so I've wait quite a while before releasing any of these sort of canon compiled lists. From what I have read around the forums, many people have mentioned (though never actually produced and released) making such compiled lists and nothing has been said by the devs that it would not be acceptable.
2) To get a little technical as per the Open Game License. "Derivative Material" is defined to include, among other things, "translations (including into other computer languages)" and "compilation", which is the two main things I did, compile them and translate them to the web. Something like a stunt that is both words and stats in one inseparable unit floats in some gray area between "Product Identity" (which can't be flatly excluded or any quote from the book to the forums would constitute infringement) and "Open Game Content". But... I'm not a lawyer and the OGL has some of the most confusing and contradictory definitions I've seen in a license, so I could be wrong in my reading.
3) The purpose of copyright is to keep others from costing you money or making money of your products. Common sense would say that a list of the example stunts wouldn't keep anyone from buying the books and I have no plans of making money of a fan-site, so I think I'm good on both those accounts.
4) Lastly, I only did this to make it easier for people to create custom stunts without repeating the canon ones. Had the stunts been done like other systems, with a name, list of stats, and a fluff description then I would have included the names and stats without the description. But in this context the description and mechanic rules of the stunts are one and the same.
All that said, if it becomes an issue, I can turn two knobs in the code and all the canon items will be removed from the page. Fingers crossed that it is only seen as intended, as a contribution to help the community. :)
For now I'm back to compiling the custom stunts from this thread to the web-page. My long term goal is to have at least as many fan stunts as there are canon stunts.
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Jeckel, I think as long as nothing you put up tells people how to play the game it should be safe. I'm sure they've probably looked at your page already since you've mentioned it a few times in this, the official forum, and they've yet to say anything.
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Jeckel, I think as long as nothing you put up tells people how to play the game it should be safe. I'm sure they've probably looked at your page already since you've mentioned it a few times in this, the official forum, and they've yet to say anything.
I agree and thanks for the encouragement. :)
Not An Easy Target. You are quick on your feet, and hard to hit, add a +1 to your athletics rolls when dodging attacks.
Should this give a +2 since it is applied to a single trapping of Athletics or is it only +1 because its a defense trapping?