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Messages - Oblyss

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1
If were doing type moon powers we really should do Nero Chaos, obviously psychical immunity with a catch of conceptual weapon (only Swords of the Cross in the Dresden Verse). But how would you stat a man made up of monsters that could leap in and out of him at will.  Multiple creatures with PI or one creature using a weird array of powers.
I'm just doing the ones specific to my game, we're not really just doing Type-Moon stuff just for the sake of it. I also am not at all familiar with Nero Chaos outside of hearing about him.

2
I have to disagree with that. A Demesne is a location created by an entity/spirit as a home turf, so to speak, where they have a great deal of control. They can still get beaten there (as we see with Agatha Hagglethorn and Dresden in his own dream), but they have a lot of advantages.

A Reality Marble (at least in the cases of Ionioi Hetairoi and Unlimited Blade Works) is essentially a location created by the entity where they hold a great deal of power, an advantage, and unlock their true potential. We do have some exceptions (Emiya Kiritsugu has a Reality Marble inside of him to alter his body by way of heartbeat and general speed, but that can be Biomancy and Time-like magic)

The similarities are:

Home Turf (entity has a great deal of power there)
It is difficult to escape (destroy it, destroy the entity, or escape through another supernatural means)
It takes the form of whatever the entity wants when it is first created (Agatha has old Chicago, for example, while Emiya has the vast desert with swords).


The biggest differences I see are:

Victims (and allies) are dragged within the Reality Marble, often against their own will, while a Demesne normally has to be entered.
The entity usually has a sole purpose for the Marble, specifically to unlock a special power (Gate of Babylon and Unlimited Blade Works act as a super armory, Ionioi Hetairoi has the army, etc)


With that in mind, I still think they are mechanically close, thus why I commented on it being -2: -1 for the Demesne-like location, and another -1 to make an "attack" (or simply be the effect) to bring others in. From there, I think designing a collection of powers, or a single power, to be utilized within the marble would be fitting, but at a discounted price (very much like Human Form, as it can only be utilized within the Marble).

In the case with Emiya's Unlimited Blade Works, I think it would be the -2 for the Reality Marble (using the above logic), followed by either a collection of points in Refinement (to denote the increase in his magical power or just the number of weapons; Enchanted Items, perhaps?), some increased physical traits, or even a custom, but fitting, power set he would acquire, then grant a discount due to the limitation of only being active within the marble.

Again, my two cents.

Those are some great thoughts on powers for the Blade Works but yeah, like Sanct said, it's different from a Demesne because the reworking says you have no benefits with the base Reality Marble power. You simple have that battle ground you can bring others too. For those home turf aspects you have to buy those when you first take the power to get their benefit, otherwise it doesn't affect combat much at all in many situations.

3
DFRPG / Re: Alternative Uses for Sponsored Magic Rules
« on: February 12, 2013, 05:00:58 AM »

I remember having those rules linked in my Summoning/Binding discussion. I bookmarked them to read at a later time and it never happened (I blame work). I'll have to look them over and see.

My only objection is that it sounds like it basically lets the player run two characters over the course of the game session, which may be a bit unwieldy in larger groups.
No worries, I am currently in finals so I am unable to do all kinds of stuff. We've skipped like 3 game sessions 3 weeks in a row now.

And that is true, though there's ways to reduce problems caused by this, and yeah. It might be a problem for a larger group. My group has a crazy small amount of players so it's not an issue. There's ways to reduce the problem of this, which even my small group is doing. Like my Saber is going by the book on her character type, so she's going to be all honor and such. Where as my character is more of "Dr Doom" honor, I guess that varies depending on the book too, but short answer: not very much. It'll probably come up a few times, will have to see. Though luckily my character has a boss in line with Saber's personality, so they won't be constantly sent out to do stuff she'd refuse to do.

Anyway, there's not a lot of fixes for this kind of thing really, I'd think, if you're worried about bigger groups. Servants are strong and here's my suggestion. Have the PC's all play mundane mortals or weak magic users, then give those mortals a servant that 10 refresh based on those house rules. The mortals wouldn't really be involved in the combat outside of being targets for others.

Second option: Have some players play Masters, and others play the Servants. Odd men out could possibly play both or something or some abnormality like a servant with no master, Archer is a good one for this without something really off the wall, though there is of course many examples of "rule breakers".

4
DFRPG / Re: Alternative Uses for Sponsored Magic Rules
« on: February 12, 2013, 04:37:22 AM »

The whole Servant thing doesn't translate well from what I've seen. Yes, the Grail tends to do the heavy lifting and grants the command spells (thus why I see it as a bit of Sponsored Magic), but the idea of summoning an entity with the equivalent of a powerful Item of Power (Gae Bolg, Excalibur, Enuma Elish), a extraordinary ability (Reality Marbles), or even just a collection of typical powers (Superhuman and above levels of physical powers, flight, water walking, etc) is just tough to gauge in this game from what I saw.
These house rules were linked in another thread of yours and I think they fit really well for this.
I know you've seen these before, but I really can't think of anything better than them.
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,24744.msg1084269.html#msg1084269

You just write up a character sheet for a servant and the rules cover just about everything for a Type-Moon servant.

The only things not really listed in that are custom powers and Noble Phatasms, which is something I'm working on now. But I'm just gonna set it up as a X cost power since it'll be a few refresh, it doesn't matter if it's not perfectly statted out by the time you summon them.

It's what I'm using for Saber in my game. Then you can just decide that the Holy Grail reduces the cost to a much lower level and such for their first servant if you so choose.




5
DFRPG / Re: Alternative Uses for Sponsored Magic Rules
« on: February 12, 2013, 03:50:11 AM »
Fate/Stay Night and Fate/Zero: For the most part, most of the magic of the magi in this series would work well with the standard fare of Evocation/Thaumaturgy, with a few exceptions of Sponsored Magic here and there. Summoning the Servants appears to be an odd combination of standard Thaumaturgy (as it has to be a ritual the first time) and Sponsored Magic (command spells to summon). Some of the magic (like Tracing, as mentioned in the other threads) just seems to work only for Sponsored Magic. The other oddities can be lumped either as Items of Power, Enchanted Items, or as specific powers (some of which need work, like the Reality Marbles). Servants, as a whole, seem to be a whole different beast that I don't think has a Fate/DFRPG parallel.

Summoning servants is a little bit vague but pretty simple, the Holy Grail does the heavy lifting on this part normally. So it is a thaumaturgic ritual but one at severely lowered cost as long as you are one of the Masters. The grail will cover the majority of the ritual and it becomes more of a ritual in the historical sense, something ceremonial, than a magic workings. They even comment how you could use the cheapest most random materials for it to perform the ritual, though using more important materials might affect servant stats. So really this is a "one time plot" ritual that you get a "Plot Rebate" on the complexity and power for the ritual. To the point that even bad excuses for magic users can pull it off on the fly. Of course there are also examples of better magic users messing it up a little bit(Archer and Rin).

That's how we're doing it in my game as well to a degree. My GM hasn't commented on it, but they are going to have my PC's new boss give them a powerful artifact for a Thaumaturgic ritual to summon themselves a servant as part of the benefits of their new station. The mechanical benefit hasn't been laid out yet, but basically it will allow the ritual to happen and with mostly a guarantee of no errors, as long as they don't mess up the ritual itself. Otherwise, my GM has said there's no guarantee on loyalty for summoned minions and it's a huge magic cost to try it. Even following the summoned houserules we found on these forums that would normally allow it.

6
Just a random thought (and I'm late to the game here), but wouldn't the baseline of Reality Marble be at a -2 instead of a -1? I figured the -1 for Demesne, with another -1 for an "attack" for force everyone into it. I only ask this since we've seen a few Reality Marbles in the series (I can name two, three if you count the Gate of Babylon), and they all seem to work the same way: bring someone into a world of your design (i.e. Demesne) and have the Home Turf advantage.

As for the powers of the Marble, I'm personally at a tossup between buying them as set powers like you have posted, have a collection of Scene Aspects (theoretically an unlimited number since the Demesne allows you to create Aspects), or even some combination thereof. I'm not too keen on some of the costs, or even a better balancing act. Perhaps we should try to scale some of the Reality Marbles of a few of the characters we have seen and determine it as we go?

The trade off is that you can't alter the reality marble during a conflict and so you sacrifice all the home field turf in favor of being able to drag people in, for the -1 cost. Then you can upgrade it for home field turf aspects for additional cost. That's my thinking on it.


Also if you look at the Reality Marbles suggested ruleset, it mentions bringing people into the marble as a conviction based attack, defended against by enemy conviction/athletics. Their score is rolled against the wizard's conviction roll on the ability.

7
DFRPG / Re: Alternative Uses for Sponsored Magic Rules
« on: February 12, 2013, 12:06:08 AM »
So should we now say that we should conjure your name at our own risk? :-D

I may have to pick your brain a bit on this, probably via PM if you're up for it. My only experience with the Fate series from Type-Moon is Stay Night and Zero.

Hah. And sure feel free to, I don't pretend to be a Type-Moon expert but I definitely love it's affiliated works. I'm currently working on including a bit of it in my current game at my GM's approval, though I'm trying to make it fit. Except for Unlimited Blade Works, I love that power so much I just don't care if it fits or not, my one exception. Luckily my GM's cool with it.

8
DFRPG / Re: Alternative Uses for Sponsored Magic Rules
« on: February 11, 2013, 11:08:15 PM »
It makes enough sense, as that is what the theme of Sponsored Magic is (with or without the Sponsor Agenda depending on the realm, of course). A friend of mine was considering using Fate in lieu of D&D after considering options like this.

Which Power List are you referring to? I know there are quite a few out there, and the search function and I haven't really been on the best of terms the past few times.

The list for Sponsored Magic is fun to sift through, just to see the sponsors people have come up with. Interesting, but not ideal for what I'm looking at.

I should also note that I haven't been a fan of Vancian Magic since I started playing other games. I find it too limiting, but that's just my opinion.
So how did all of that go? Did you just use those entities as Sponsors, or did you use Sponsored Magic mechanics to emulate the magic those characters used?

I have a few of my notes with me; will post them if I can tonight.

Yaaaay someone mentioned my name.

Anyway, here you go Crion. Sanct's talking about this list here.

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,25794.825.html

I brought up Unlimited Blade Works in it, trying to work it up to put on my wizard in my own game.

9
DFRPG / Re: How would you represent a "Good Bob" v "Evil Bob" Power?
« on: February 11, 2013, 12:27:29 AM »
You could also make a custom power based on beast change
Yeah, that's somewhat what I meant to suggest. I didn't word it properly.

10
Here is the changes I would make to Unlimited Blade Works which would include the powers sponsor (Alya) and agenda from the visual novel. 

Reality Marble (Unlimited Blade Works) [-4]
Description: With the help of a powerful force you can project your soul upon the world.
Sponsor: Alya /Gaia/ the World Spirit   
Agenda: This power is sponsored by the World Spirit in exchange for an Eternity as a spiritual guard dog after death. It's agenda is the protection of the world as a whole no matter the cost on an individual level.

Oh, huh. I wasn't aware of that. Is that the kind of thing you actively agree to or just get wrapped up in because you used the power? Also the guard dog bit, is that reference to becoming part of the Counter Force?

Edit: Seems so, though it also doesn't look like the UBW is specifically the cause of it? Since the plot involved wanting to kill the Unlimited Blade Works user before he made a pact with Alya, but he still used the power at that point?

11
You mean the Refresh rebate for having other casting Powers?

It should still be there. I just didn't bother to mention it because I kinda take it for granted. Maybe not wise on my part, I dunno.

No that's fine, I was just making sure. You'll have to forgive me, I only started playing like a month ago and this is more or less my first real tabletop game I've gotten seriously into.

Edit: Also I was freaking out a bit cause I'm already struggling to pay off the -2 cost hah.

12
On a related note:

UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS [-4]
Description: You can call up weapons from a magical realm inside your soul.
Sponsor: This magic is self-sponsored.
Agenda: As self-sponsored magic, this power lacks an agenda. Compels from its debt generally involve brutal headaches or one's magic going haywire.
Evocation: Unlimited Blade Works Evocations take the the form of spectral swords that appear from nowhere.
Thaumaturgy: Unlimited Blade Works rituals can be used to conjure weapons, including Item of Power weapons. The complexity required to create an Item of Power is determined by the GM.
Evothaum: Unlimited Blade Works allows its user to conjure weapons with Evocation's speed and methods.
Extra Benefits: All Unlimited Blade Works spells get two free shifts of duration. Spells with no duration, like Evocation attacks, leave behind conjured weapons that last for two exchanges. (The number of weapons left behind is up to the caster.)

That looks perfect, though any reason you took out the +2 rebate for Evo/Thaum?

Edit: Oh wait, you can't have duration on attacks? Oh well. That still works well with summoned spell blocks.

13
Okay, here's Reality Marble 2.

REALITY MARBLE [-1]
Description: You can travel to a magical sub-universe of your own creation and drag other people with you.
Note: Many characters are more powerful inside their Reality Marble than they are outside of it. Such characters should attach an appropriate version of the Limitation Power to whatever Powers they have while inside the Marble.
Skills affected: Conviction, others.
Effects:
Personal Universe. You have a personal universe called a Reality Marble. Design it when you take this Power. You may give it an Aspect of your choice, and as long as it has at least one zone you may give it any number of zones you want and arrange them as you please. You must designate one zone as the "entry zone" which characters arrive in when you use this Power. Your Reality Marble cannot be inhabited, and its design cannot include anything that gives you a significant advantage.
Reality Marble. As an action, you may spend a Fate Point to enter your Reality Marble. If you wish to bring other people with you, you may roll your Conviction skill. Then every other character in your zone is forced to enter your Reality Marble with you unless they beat your roll with a defense roll using Conviction or Athletics. People drawn into the Marble remain there until you decide to send everyone back or lose consciousness. You can't send people back one by one; it's all or nothing. And you can't keep people longer than the time indicated by adding your Conviction roll to "half a minute" on the time chart.
Different Rules [-varies]. Your Reality Marble has a special rule. Negotiate the effects and costs of this upgrade with your GM. You can only purchase this upgrade once. Here are some examples of possible special rules, with appropriate costs:

[-1] Peaceful World. Inside your Marble, all attempts at physical violence face a block with strength equal to your Conviction. In addition, all characters in your Marble have armour 4 against all physical attacks.
[-1] Random Entry. Instead of entering the Marble through the entry zone, characters are randomly scattered among the zones of the Marble. If the Marble is large enough, this may prevent them from seeing each other when they enter.
[-1] Clinging Marsh. The soft and sticky ground of the Marble imposes a border value of 1 on every zone.
[-1] Heavy Gravity. Might restricts all physical skills inside the Marble.
[-2] Anti-Technology Field. Anything rated 8 or lower on the hexing table fails to function inside the Marble.
[-2] Killing Heat. Everyone faces an accuracy 6 weapon 2 attack against their Endurance each exchange from the extreme heat of the Marble.
[-2] King Of The Hill. You enter your Marble in a different zone than everyone else. A zone border equal to your Conviction blocks entry to your zone, and its fortifications add 3 to whatever armour value its occupants have against attacks coming from outside of it.
[-3] Ocean Depths. The entire Marble is underwater.

PS: Not totally confident in the balance of those rules. Most of the costs are guesses.

Hah nice. It's getting really shaped up but yeah, I'm not sure about those costs. They seem a bit expensive but I'm definitely no expert on the rules. Though the format and rules otherwise look great on it so far.

Just talked to my GM and Unlimited Blade Works can replicate item of power weapons temporarily at a fate point cost, with each IoP having its own difficulty level, and some items being unable to be perfectly copied ever. And it must be 'Earthly' items in origin. Nothing from the NeverNever or Outsiders. So at some point replicating a weapon may be possible but not practical.

14
The Mystic Eyes ignore Toughness as well as armour. That's why they cost 4.
Oh I see, that is a very good point. That example would definitely lower the cost then. Maybe a -1 or -2.

I need to go take a look at the limitation ability people are discussing once I am finished with this week's finals work, or on a break.

Edit: I'd also like to take a stab at statting out Noble Phantasms as a power later, which might be of interest to others on the board who mentioned doing games involving servants. These are sorta similar to Reality Marbles in that they are abilities that aren't the same, though they appear in some kind of attack form, weapon form, or beneficial buff abilities and the like.

Some examples of these are
Gae Bulg: A spear that causes wounds that can't be healed.
Exaclibur: A huge light based attack that I'd say is something like 8-14 shifts.
Unlimited blade works as mentioned in above posts. A reality marble attack.
Gates of Babylon: Gates to the user's Treasury Vault containing their vast array of Items of Power. This ability is useless if they have no Items of Power. They can shoot the Items of Power from the gate as projectiles with tremendous force, or take them out and wield them. Unlimited Blade Works is a "cheap imitation" of this ability.

15
Yeah, that.

Maybe +2 shifts of duration to all spells, with attack evocations leaving behind mundane swords that last two exchanges.

That sound good to you?

Yeah that sounds great. I can't think of any other abilities to tag onto it, extended duration just seems to fit best and would be really nice I think.


Thanks.

But honestly, I think I left some important stuff out. Like what it's like inside a Marble. I'll fix that in the next draft.

Any ideas for what different rules a Reality Marble could have?

My ideas:

-All technology below X on the hexing chart fails to function in the Reality Marble.
-Everyone suffers some kind of attack each exchange. Maybe the area is super hot or something.
-There's a persistent Block up against some kind of action. Maybe it's so dark nobody can see, maybe the local physics don't allow violence, etc.
-Everybody heals faster.
-The zones that the Marble is made up of are moving.

Stuff like that is probably best represented by buying whatever other Power you want and adding an "only in the Marble" Limitation.
I would have to go look up other examples but yeah, that all sounds like stuff that would go on in a Reality Marble. I'd say set up Reality marble with a low cost of some kind, then add on extra abilities/declarations that go with it at extra cost when you first make it. Maybe give a rebate to them that they only apply in the reality marble.





Incidentally, 4 Refresh just to ignore armour ratings? That's pretty pricey.

Okay, sounds neat. I'll try to cover that in the next draft.
Hey I just copied the example on the custom power sheet for that ability hah.

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