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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => DF Reference Collection => Topic started by: xakko on January 19, 2014, 09:18:04 PM
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It's come up on some other topics the question of who - aside from Harry - has Jim Butcher tortured the most, so I figured I'd start a list
Karrin Murphy
- poisoned by Victor Sells's scorpions, endured Internal Affairs investigation for rescinding warrant on HarryStorm Front
- arm broken by the Loup Garou, beaten up by FBI hexenwolves Full Moon
- psychic attack by the Nightmare, Grave Peril
- knee injury, Summer Knight
- cut, mind whammy, broken jaw by Lord Raith, Blood Rites
- arm broken, Dead Beat (behind the scenes)
- nearly drowned by Jenny Greenteeth, "Something Borrowed"
- loses command of SI Proven Guilty
- shot by shotgun, face slashed by Deirdre Small Favor
- drugged by Manaed, black eye & bruise from Harry, "Last Call"
- psychic whammy, "Love Hurts"
- loses her job Changes
- defeated by Lily, Maeve & cohort, Cold Days
- dislocated left shoulder, injured left knee, shot by Nicodemus. Skin Game
Susan Rodriguez
- reaction to multiple potions, SF
- turned to vampire, GP
- attacked with snakes by Cassius, injured jumping from car Death Masks
- knocked out by Ik'k'uox, turned to full Red Court vampire, sacrificed, Changes
Mac
- beaten up, "Last Call"
- kidnapped by Red Cap, shot, CD
Toot-toot
- Got swatted by the Skin Walker, SmF
- Wounded and smacked around by Lacuna, CD
Kim Delaney
Ron Carmichael
Mickey Malone
- hamstrung by Loup Garou, FM
- tortured by barbed wire spell, GP
Michael Carpenter
- battered by Agatha Hagglethorn, broken ribs in fight against Kravos-possessed Lydia, GP
- cut by sword, shot multiple times into kevlar backed armor, DM
- shot multiple times, gravely wounded, SmF
- daughter kidnapped, provoked nearly to murder, "The Warrior"
- stabbed in leg by Nicodemus. SG
Charity Carpenter
- nearly sacrificed to Siriothrax
- attacked by Nightmare physically and mentally, inducing premature labor, GP
- arm injured by hammer exploded against warded door, injured by Scarecrow, DB
- shotgun blast to leg by Denarian squire SG
Mortimer Lindquist
- head laceration, concussion (?), DM
- kidnapped and tortured by Corpsetaker, Ghost Story
Thomas Raith
- bit by vampires, injured catching Harry when thrown by Kravos possessed Lydia, GP
- shot by Lara, nearly sacrificed by Madge, cut and neck broken by Lord Raith, BR
- arm broken by Scarecrow, hit by ice troll, PG
- strangled, electrocuted by Elaine, leg injured by ghouls WN
- injuries from Black Court vampires, "It's My Birthday, Too"
- poisoned by Stygian, "Backup"
- tortured by Skinwalker, Turn Coat
- shot in gut, defeated by Lily, Maeve & cohort, CD
Justine
- abducted by Red Court and fed upon, GP
- drained of lifeforce, BR
- abdomen slashed by Skinwalker, TC
- kidnapped, "Even Hand"
- kidnapped by Red Cap, CD
Elaine Mallory
- presumably enthralled by Justin DuMorne, pre-SF
- attacked by Lloyd Slate, SK
- psychic attack by Skavis, WN
Shiro
- tortured to death by Denarians, DM
Sanya
- arm broken by Ursiel, leg stabbed by Deirdre, injured by Nicodemus, DM
Waldo Butters
- psychiatric treatment after identifying some of the Velvet Room victims as not human, BTS, DM
- grabbed by zombies, tortured and soul gazed by Grevane, nose broken by Cassius, DB
- Shot in vest by Stevie D, Changes
- injured by Aristedes, displaced from body by Corpsetaker, GS
- forzare spell by Harry, zapped by Tessa, SG
Molly Carpenter
- damage from using black magic, captured by Fetches, PG
- psychic trauma from Skavis death, White Night
- smoke inhalation, "Day Off"
- shot, psychic trauma, Changes
- training injuries from Lea, psychic attack by Corpsetaker, GS
- turned into Winter Lady, CD
- mind attacks by Sidhe, SG
Alicia Carpenter
- kidnapped by Father Rourke, "The Warrior"
Daniel Carpenter
- attacked by fetch, PG
- knife wounds from Aristedes, GS
Mouse
- hit by car, PG
- shot in paw, TC
- injured by Ick, Changes
- defeated by Lily, Maeve & cohort, CD
Father Forthill
- nearly beaten to death, GS
Rawlins
Ivy
- gassed, tortured by Denarians, SF
Kinkaid
- injured by Darkhounds, BR
- injured by Denarians, SF
Anastasia Luccio
- mindswapped by Corpsetaker into wounded body, DB
- mind whammied by Peabody, circa SF
- collarbone broken by Skinwalker, TC
Carlos Ramirez
- knocked out by Cowl (?), DB
- knife wounds from Vittorio Malvora, WN
Maggie Dresden
- kidnapped by Red Court, watch mother sacrificed, Changes
Sarissa
- hit by ogre, turned into Summer Lady, CD
Alphas
not specified
- several wounded in fight with hexenwolves outside Lycanthrope's lair, FM
- several wounded in fight in Chicago Above Chicago, SK
Will
- injured in fight with FBI hexenwolves, drugged, FM
- clawed by Tigress, SK
- intoxicated by White Vampire blood, TC
- knife wound, injuries from Fomor, "Aftermath"
- hospitalized with unspecified injuries, BTS, SG
Georgia
- drugged, FM
- beaten, kidnapped and ensorcelled, "Something Borrowed"
- intoxicated by White Vampire blood, TC
- beaten, kidnapped and ensorcelled, "Aftermath"
- hospitalized with unspecified injuries, BTS, SG
Andi
- drugged, FM
- infected by psychopagic mites, "Day Off"
- severely wounded by Skinwalker, TC
- beaten, kidnapped and ensorcelled, "Aftermath"
- kidnapped, CD
Kirby
- drugged, FM (? - possibly injured by hexenwolves)
- broken legs, cracked vertebrae, "Something Borrowed"
- infected by psychopagic mites, "Day Off"
- - killed by Skinwalker, TC
Marcy
- drugged, FM
- wounded by Fomor, "Afternmath"
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John Marcone
- beaten, strung upside down by FBI hexenwolves, FM
- tortured, SF
- knocked around, "Even Hand"
Hendricks
- shot by Denton, FM
- knocked around, "Even Hand"
Gard
- arm broken by Grendelkin, "Heorot"
- eviscerated by Denarians, SF
- knocked around, "Even Hand"
Meryl
Fix
- defeated by the Winter Knight, defeated by Lily, Maeve & cohort, watched Lily die, CD
Lily
- abused by Maeve and Lloyd Slate, behind the scenes
- turned to stone, nearly sacrificed, SK
- killed by Maeve, CD
Inari Raith
- arm broken by Black Court vampires, clavicle broken by Bobby shielding her from shotgun blast, BR
Lara Raith
- mind whammy by Lord Raith, behind the scenes
- injured by Black Court vampires, BR
- injuries inflicted by Skinwalker, damage from Madeline's grenade, TC
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I'll discount everything Murphy suffered in SF and FM out of Harry's guilt account. Murphy got some benefit from Harry's activities back then. Without Harry's professional help, Murphy would have lose her job sooner. The tragedy with the Loop Garu is equally Harry and Murphy's fault, so it cancels out.
Everything from GP onwards is Harry's fault though, Murphy will not be involve in all of them if she did not know Harry.
Similarly, I will also discount. Thomas near sacrifice in BR. Lord wraith is going to eliminate him anyway and without Harry, Thomas will have even less chance to survive. The Nagloshi thing is largely due to Harry though, he literally bring that trouble to Thomas's door.
I have little sympathy for Susan. She tricked Harry to a soulgaze, starting the whole mess in the first place. She ignores Harry's warning, no matter how inadaquate, in GP. Her suffering in DM is mostly due to Martin and the fellowship's business. And Changes is as much for herself as for Harry. Since Susan neglected to tell Harry about Maggi early on, Harry can't be blame for what happened.
Molly though, is the most tragic. Almost every mistake she done and every suffering she endured, is one way or another due to Harry. It might not be Harry's fault, but Harry is somewhat the cause.
The alpha's suffer Curby's death in TC and Harry's suicide attempt makes almost everyone suffer.
I'll discount everything in CD as well, due to the fact that had they did not help Harry, they will die along with Chicago. Similarly, Michael's injury cannot be blamed on Harry. Michael is duty bound to face Nico and his gang eventually. Without Harry, Michael may have died and still failed to saved the day.
So far, only Butters come out ahead from associating with Harry. Thanks to Harry his life becomes more interesting. Thanks to Harry he is saved from Kemmler's disciples in DB, Thanks to Harry he have good accounting in the eyes of WC's wardens and thanks to Harry he have a chance to meet his current girlfriend.
The rest of Harry's friends and associate tends to pay dearly either from Harry's direct mistakes, misjudgement or from just simply knowing him.
Most, if not all of the above is not Harry's fault. However, most of the above also will not happened to those people if they don't ever have the misfortune to meet Harry at all.
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Are we allowed to include the losses the White Council suffered as a result of the Fomor incursion and the War with the Red Court? (I'd argue that Luccio and Ramirez are friends, along with Rashid at this point).
I suppose it could be argued that Fix is or was a friend, and he lost Lily because Harry didn't kill Maeve fast enough in CD.
Rawlins is a friend, and was shot in the foot due to his involvement with Dresden.
Harry failed to stop the Denarians from kidnapping and torturing Ivy in Small Favor. He was the reason they were able to get to her when he called her in to arbitrate Marcone's kidnapping.
And perhaps the biggest one of all: What Maggie suffered at the hands of the Red Court, due to his impregnation of Susan and Arianna's discovery of whose child she was.
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You forgot the psychic trama Molly suffered at CI.
mouse has been beaten up pretty well by sveveral different foes, and was shot in Turn Coat.
If you wanted to you could put Martin who seemingly betrayed everyone to destroy the red court in addition to being killed.
Shiro was brutally sacrificed.
You could also debatably put Molly getting turned into winter lady on that list.
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I'll discount everything Murphy suffered in SF and FM out of Harry's guilt account. Murphy got some benefit from Harry's activities back then. Without Harry's professional help, Murphy would have lose her job sooner. The tragedy with the Loop Garu is equally Harry and Murphy's fault, so it cancels out.
Not sure why you would discount any injuries - it's not the purpose of the thread to lay blame at Harry's feat, but to note what Jim Butcher has put these characters through.
I've added a bunch based on the recent suggestions, though. I'm in the middle of a re-read, but only up to GP, so I'll most likely be throwing other examples on as I go.
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Not sure why you would discount any injuries - it's not the purpose of the thread to lay blame at Harry's feat, but to note what Jim Butcher has put these characters through.
I've added a bunch based on the recent suggestions, though. I'm in the middle of a re-read, but only up to GP, so I'll most likely be throwing other examples on as I go.
I am thinking what Harry's friends have endured because of him. If you don't limit it to that, you probably can include:
1. Murphy twice divorce and the death of her first husband.
2. Charity being sacrifice to the dragon.
and so on. You get the idea.
If it have to be because of Harry, I'll discount anything that equally benefited Harry's friends like what Murphy enjoys from Harry early in the series. I will also discount anything that is not started by Harry, like what Susan did.
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I am thinking what Harry's friends have endured because of him. If you don't limit it to that, you probably can include:
1. Murphy twice divorce and the death of her first husband.
2. Charity being sacrifice to the dragon.
and so on. You get the idea.
If it have to be because of Harry, I'll discount anything that equally benefited Harry's friends like what Murphy enjoys from Harry early in the series. I will also discount anything that is not started by Harry, like what Susan did.
There were two people involved in the tango that created Maggie...
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I am thinking what Harry's friends have endured because of him. If you don't limit it to that, you probably can include:
1. Murphy twice divorce and the death of her first husband.
2. Charity being sacrifice to the dragon.
and so on. You get the idea.
If it have to be because of Harry, I'll discount anything that equally benefited Harry's friends like what Murphy enjoys from Harry early in the series. I will also discount anything that is not started by Harry, like what Susan did.
both of Murphy's divorces were pre-series, although I will consider the emotional impact of losing her first husband. I'm still not sure Charity counts as a "friend", and again, her rescue from Siriothrax was before the series. I'm making an exception for Elaine's possible enthrallment, though, so I guess I'm being inconsistent.
This is a riff off TCF's thread here: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,30964.msg1311610.html#msg1311610
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There were two people involved in the tango that created Maggie...
Agreed, Harry, at most, only have to be responsible for half of that horrible mess. Probably less then half, since Susan did not give him the chance to participate in Maggi's failed protection scheme.
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both of Murphy's divorces were pre-series, although I will consider the emotional impact of losing her first husband. I'm still not sure Charity counts as a "friend", and again, her rescue from Siriothrax was before the series. I'm making an exception for Elaine's possible enthrallment, though, so I guess I'm being inconsistent.
This is a riff off TCF's thread here: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,30964.msg1311610.html#msg1311610
After reading the riff off I have only one comment:
At least Harry leads by example.
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I would include Kim Delany (he describes her as a sometime apprentice, and WoJ is that she is the closest he has to a daughter figure back then). Sure, it was partially her own fault, but in retrospect Harry could have done better by her.
Malone - wouldn't have been targeted by the Nightmare.
Carmichael - though that is arguably partially Murphy's fault.
Alicia Carpenter - Kidnapped to pressure Harry.
Others:
Sarissa? Mac? Morty?
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Kirby was in the hospital with a
broken pelvis(?) cracked vertebra and both legs broken during "Something Borrowed." The injuries happened off-screen, though, so not sure it counts.
ETA: I had to look it up (I knew I had the pelvis part wrong) and it also says:
Alex: gashes on his throat
Mitchell: two broken teeth
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I would include Kim Delany (he describes her as a sometime apprentice, and WoJ is that she is the closest he has to a daughter figure back then). Sure, it was partially her own fault, but in retrospect Harry could have done better by her.
Malone - wouldn't have been targeted by the Nightmare.
Carmichael - though that is arguably partially Murphy's fault.
Alicia Carpenter - Kidnapped to pressure Harry.
Others:
Sarissa? Mac? Morty?
Kirby was in the hospital with a broken pelvis(?) and both legs broken during "Something Borrowed." The injuries happened off-screen, though, so not sure it counts.
Added, thanks!
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"Even Hand" Marcone, Gard and Hendricks all got knocked around, Justine had been kidnapped.
Justine got slashed in the abdomen by the Skinwalker in TC.
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Will and Georgia got aphrodisiac poisononing by ingesting the blood of a White Court Vampire (Madeline Raith) in Turn Coat. I don't think they minded it though.
The Alphas - I think at the end of Summer Knight Will told Harry that the Alphas had needed a bunch of stitches after the battle with the faeries to get Harry to the stone table.
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IMO, I think that debating what can and can't be laid at Harry's feet is kinda missing the point. Guilt junkie that he is, he probably blames himself when someone he said hello to once twenty years ago gets a damned paper cut. It's both his greatest strength and greatest flaw as a character.
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"Even Hand" Marcone, Gard and Hendricks all got knocked around, Justine had been kidnapped.
Justine got slashed in the abdomen by the Skinwalker in TC.
I wasn't sure if we wanted to include Marcone & company, since they aren't really Harry's /friends/, but I've thrown them on the second post. Thanks for the Justine reminder.
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Toot-toot
- Got swatted by the Skin Walker in SmF
- Took a stab or slash wound and was generally smacked around by Lacuna in CD
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IMO, I think that debating what can and can't be laid at Harry's feet is kinda missing the point. Guilt junkie that he is, he probably blames himself when someone he said hello to once twenty years ago gets a damned paper cut. It's both his greatest strength and greatest flaw as a character.
again, this thread isn't to lay blame on Harry at all, but to recognize that he's not the only "good guy" being smacked around over the course of the series.
Thanks, KurtinStGeorge for the additional info.
I'll probably need to add an entry for Morgan, if I'm including Carmichael.
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Its Harry's fault all of his friends are still alive and damaged instead of just dead. Life is about suffering, but it is also hard to be overly empathetic with characters who are always viewed from the third person. While being in Harry's narrative his pain is more real since he is describing all the stuff that is happening to him in great detail
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I wasn't sure if we wanted to include Marcone & company, since they aren't really Harry's /friends/, but I've thrown them on the second post. Thanks for the Justine reminder.
I can't remember all of their injuries in Even Hand, but Marcoen and company were in need of medical attention by story's end.
Some more - Carlos got knocked unconscious in Dead Beat
Thomas got strangled and possibly electrocuted by Elaine in WN
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I can't remember all of their injuries in Even Hand, but Marcoen and company were in need of medical attention by story's end.
Some more - Carlos got knocked unconscious in Dead Beat
Thomas got strangled and possibly electrocuted by Elaine in WN
Carlos got hospitalize in WK.
Luccio got transfered into a younger body, which provide the opening for her mental manipulation.
Which result in: Morgan's death, Aleron LaFortier's death, Unknown number of WC member's death, A few warden's death during the confrontation on demonreach and Luccio's psychological wounds.
Oh yeah, All of the younger wardens are sort of mind rape , so that might count as well. Some of those younger wardens are Harry's friends, though most of them are off screen.
Thinking about it, the WC got quite a beating during TC.
The plague attack Ariana placed on Edinborough, might just qualify. Don't know how many wizards are bed ridden because of that and LTW is among those.
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Lara - Got pummeled by the Skinwalker and saw her sisters injured and her house damaged by the same in TC.
Took a bit of a beating from Black Court Vamps in BR.
(She isn't one of Harry's friends, but like Marcone she is a sometime ally who can best be called a frenemy.)
Inari - Got her arm broken by a Black Court Vampire in BR.
(She was friendly with Harry. Well before her hunger started to take over and she tried to eat him.)
Meryl - Was killed by Lloyd Slate in SK.
(She was starting to become a friend.)
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Michael: daughter held hostage during "Warrior" (to get Harry to give up the swords)
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Thanks for pointing this out in the trailer topic xakko.
I've got two suggestions for the topic.
One is to add list code to the lists (this will add bullets, not terribly important but it looks nice)
The other is to possibly put things in chronological order (a taller order imo, but more significant)
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Thanks for pointing this out in the trailer topic xakko.
I've got two suggestions for the topic.
One is to add list code to the lists (this will add bullets, not terribly important but it looks nice)
The other is to possibly put things in chronological order (a taller order imo, but more significant)
I'll give it a whirl, thanks!
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I'll give it a whirl, thanks!
Also, do you have any problems with the curators making any additions to your post or do you wish to take the lead?
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Also, do you have any problems with the curators making any additions to your post or do you wish to take the lead?
not at all... it's a reference thread, not an ego trip. :)
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To Murphy, I'd add a bunch of personal issues that hurt her more than mere physical injuries.
- Seeing her second husband marry her kid sister. (Effectively "I'd love you -- if you were younger and less you") (BR)
- Feelings of failure associated with not taking over her mother's matriarchal role in the family. (BR)
- Finally opening up to a relationship with Harry, getting all dressed up for their date, showing up and finding his blood and a bullet hole. (Shades of Angelus's gift to Giles...) (Ch)
To Charity, I'd add a bunch of things that happened to her kids, but most especially Molly in PG -- Molly inherited the power from Charity, and Charity would blame herself for Molly keeping the magic a secret, and nearly getting her head chopped off. This is probably the single worst thing that ever happened to her.
To Susan...
- Sifting through body parts of ripped up children, putting them back together to learn if any of them were her daughter -- all the while dealing with the lust to suck the blood from the pieces.
- Maggie kidnapped by the Red Court, to be sacrificed.
- Martin's breathtaking betrayal -- possibly the closest relationship of her life. Ten years as partners in the Fellowship, and he gave her daughter to the Red Court. And, no, the betrayal wasn't fake. He *really* betrayed her, even though it was part of a betrayal of the Red King as well.
And if you're going to list one-shot characters like Kim Delaney and Meryl, Lydia probably deserves an entry.
Lydia:
- Cassandra's Tears -- it's already a curse, knowing the future and not being able to get anyone to believe you.
- Specific dreams about the Nightmare coming for her
- Hiding in the Church while the Nightmare rages outside
- Kidnapped by vampires
- Almost sacrificed to desecrate the Sword
- Possessed by Nightmare
Maybe Harley MacFinn as well.
- Loup Garou curse.
- Destruction of his circle -- guilt over the deaths, especially Kim's.
- Killed by Harry.
And Helen Beckitt/Demeter
For Thomas, I'd throw in his backstory -- his Father has been trying to kill him for years, he's a psychic vampire in love, and the single worst thing that happened to him: he ate Justine, and thought he'd killed her.
Rawlins -- add that he got exiled to SI after the events of PG.
To Ivy, I'd add the backstory -- it's an incredibly painful childhood trauma.
To Carlos and to Luccio I'd add Cristos having them "arrested/detained" during Changes.
Mister had his home burned down!
Mrs. Spunkelcrief had her home burned down.
The Willoughbys had their home burned down.
Abby got shot in the belly [GS] (Ack. Did she die? Search doesn't show any mention of her beyond "They don't know if she's going to live or die.")
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thanks ClintACK - will definitely be adding at least some of these.
I'm a little hesitant to put too much emotional trauma into the feed, as it were, but to ignore it is also a mistake. Physical wounds often heal long before emotional ones. I may color code physical versus emotional to help people looking for "X took a wound to Y" versus those seeking how much it has cost folks to be on Harry's side.
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How about Susan carrying Maggie? I heard pregnancy can be a hell of a thing to endure, for some women. Not that anyone's unhappy she's around; just... I think it might be appropriate to add.
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Also for Susan, childbirth and separation from Maggie, fear for her safety.