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Messages - Drachasor

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631
DFRPG / Re: The Laws of Magic and non-mortal casters
« on: July 03, 2010, 02:58:25 PM »
Its not a case of imagination, its a case of will.  If you will it not hurt anyone, then you can't perform a magic effect designed to hurt people. 

That's blatantly not the case.  Many, many times Harry talks about how fire and other natural effects will behave naturally once created.  Will allows you to control them better.  Clearly if they behave naturally (and we see this all over the place), a lack of control could easily cause a death by magic.  The characters just luck out since the D-verse doesn't seem to have friendly fire.

632
DFRPG / Re: The Laws of Magic and non-mortal casters
« on: July 03, 2010, 02:37:05 PM »
You have to visualize what's going to happen exactly in order to make it occur...and that includes what damage you want your spell to do.
Then avoiding lawbreaking is super-easy.  Hostage situations are also easy.  Just don't imagine the fire/whatever hurting anyone you don't want it to.  Being a bit facetious here, as obviously Harry has demonstrated in the books that magic can have unforeseen consequences that you didn't imagine (like burnt b it iuildings).  Once you make fire, then it is fire and acts like fire.

633
DFRPG / Re: The Laws of Magic and non-mortal casters
« on: July 03, 2010, 02:20:38 PM »
The theory is:

Most people who kill someone with a gun do it on reflex, or because they were under orders, or to save their own life, or even in pursuit of righteous vengeance. They do it without focusing their entire will and being onto the idea that this guy needs to die and nothing else. by believing in his death so hard it happens

Even one of the books mentions how this isn't the case.  Green soldiers can hit targets well, but they almost always suck at hitting people.  They unconsciously avoid it.  It takes will and a decision to do it most times.

I don't see how it is all that different with magic anyhow.  You toss a fireball at someone you aren't thinking "kill, kill, kill" necessarily.  You could just be thinking "fire, fire fire" or "get him away" or "make him stop" or any number of things (maybe even that he isn't human).  Even thoughts like that will come as a reflex in time.

634
DFRPG / Re: Son of Thor concept for an upcoming campaign
« on: July 03, 2010, 02:16:16 PM »
Guys, I used Holy Stuff as an example because it's specifically +2. Look at literally every single Denarian writeup, just for starters. Which is, BTW, why I only allow people with True Faith stuff to effectively bless holy water and such.

That said, with a re-reading of the books, you guys have convinced me that mistletoe should be +3, it is a mundane substance. My ruling it at +2 comes down to, well, where do you get it? I certainly don't know where my platers in my Las Vegas game were going to be able to get it mundanely (though I did assume the Scion of Loki in the group knew how to acquire some).

Eh, no way +2 for holy things follows the rules.  How are demons hating holy stuff not +2 all by itself as far as research goes?  Holy Water and the like aren't that difficult to get either.  I don't know.  When they have True Magic as a +1, which hardly anyone has, it seems kind of silly to rate Holy Water and the like on the same level.  I mean, you can order Holy Water on the internet!

As for mistletoe, that's not hard to get.  Greenhouses are a possibility, but they are more easily obtained in occult shops.  Yellow pages will hook you up.  Alternatively you can order it on the internet as well.

I can see fudging either as +3 just due to the fact iron is super-easy to get, but I don't fathom how they could rate a +2.

635
DFRPG / Re: Potions on contact
« on: July 03, 2010, 01:44:52 PM »
"Potions" seem to clearly be intended for one-use items of all types, given the hanky example.

636
DFRPG / Re: n00b with some questions
« on: July 03, 2010, 01:43:18 PM »
The Catch is tricky.  I can see the argument that not everyone knows to kill the undead with fire, but at the same time, this guy is going to be very obvious.  He'll be a mass of stitches and slightly askew proportions, and while people not in the know would likely rationalize it as, "Geez, that dude must have been in some horrible accident!" anyone even a little in the know would look at him and think, "That dude is stitched together from bits of other people.  What's that phrase?  Kill it with what?  Something with an F...OH YEAH."  Plus, it is very easily researched even for people not in the know, considering Frankenstein is a bit of a pop culture icon.  So I do lean more toward having his Catch being a +4.  I don't see it going farther than that, though.

How hard it is to realize the catch is honestly a decision the group has to reach within some reasonable limits (obviously access is +2).  That's because you are DEFINING how hard it is to research the fact in the campaign.  If it is easy to research your catch, then that's a +2.  If it is hard (requires books that are not easy to obtain), then it is +1.  I suppose one could even say for a unique monster that it could be +0, since research won't help.  So really with Frankenstein it could be any level, you just have to decide what level it is and play consistently at that level.

637
DFRPG / Re: The Laws of Magic and non-mortal casters
« on: July 03, 2010, 10:52:23 AM »
Overall I'd say the Laws of Magic in the Dresden-verse are a little over-the-top in a "it's a bit artificial" kind of way.

That said, I think as far as the game is concerned they are meant to be there more to balance the game than anything else.  Altering and reading minds is insanely powerful, heck even Mind Tricks in Star Wars games are pretty darn awesome and the D-verse allows much larger effects.  I don't think anyone can argue that messing with undead isn't also very potent.  Same goes with time travel.  The Outer Gates bit is, I think, largely meant to be on a plot level (though personally I feel that the "researching" bit should just be a legal measure and not a game mechanic, depends on how heavy the GM wants the plot device).  So Lawbreaker for all that makes sense from a purely game balance and plot perspective.

That leaves transforming and killing.  Now, some transforming seems a bit silly to count as a lawbreaker, to me.  If you are repairing tissue damage, removing scares, or a little cosmetic surgery, then that seems rather silly to slap lawbreaker on it (certainly over the top from a game balance perspective).  If you are doing something that alters/destroys the mind, then that goes largely into the area of the first law.  (Augmentation beyond a normal human could be considered similarly, or just on a game balance level as OP if you don't restrict it in some way).  That brings us to the first law, which is a bit murky.  Killing someone with magic.  Now, from a purely RP perspective, killing someone with magic and normally seems about the same to me.  If you purposefully incinerate someone with magic, you have to BELIEVE magic can be used to kill and that they should die.  If you knowingly shoot to kill someone, then that's really no different, honestly.  Seems a bit odd for the game to make a difference though.  On the other hand, magic can be crazy-powerful, hitting huge areas and killing people from far, far away that couldn't otherwise be killed.  Lawbreaker helps keep it under control if humans or sufficiently human-like creatures are around.

Of course, to go to the OP's original concern, I think there is something more interesting afoot from a different perspective.  Presumably, if a non-mortal kills someone with magic, they don't change because they don't have any choice in the matter; it is merely part of their nature.  On the other hand, I find it more odd the other way around.  Harry can kill talking things with magic, things that can think and learn (yet can't change their nature somehow), and that's OK.  Seems a bit screwed up to me if killing people is problematic.  Something is really off with those ethics.

In the end, I think you have to take the power of magic and the universe and just consider magic to have very special rules.  Magic alters you more easily and changes you more easily.  These changes are overreactions to what you are doing compared to how it would work if you did it any other way.  That's why you can't be a wizard-psychiatrist or bring a recently dead loved one back to life whereas if you could do it with science it would be OK (you don't see behavioral therapists or doctors turning into monsters)*.

*Worst case you get surgeons who are egotistical jerks, really, well, beyond the people who are monsters for other reasons.

638
DFRPG / Re: Son of Thor concept for an upcoming campaign
« on: July 03, 2010, 10:09:26 AM »
1. On the refund it comes down to what your GM decides (in the best case together with the rest of the group). For our Heimdal-Scion we decided that +3 is appropriate and as the GM of this particular group I'll sooner or later scale the opposition accordingly.

2. Might I suggest that you not make him a direct son of Thor? The reason for that is, that there are tons of children of Thor mentioned in the norse myths, particularly in the "Edda". All of these children (namely Thrud, Magni and Modi) are very powerful beings on their own. They are so powerful in fact, that even a submerged power level couldn't handle them.

3. If you decide to make him a son of Thor. Who is his mother? If it's Sif, then you could use that for an other aspect. If it is some other mythical person, then that might be an aspect like CHILD OF A GIANT/DWARF for example. An other possibility is that the char might be the son of a mortal woman and Thor. Those old gods liked to spread it around apparently...

1.  Agreed.  Particularly with research, I think, it decides on how you decide looking it up will work in the game.
2&3.  That's why I was going to have the mother be mortal (probably a wizard).  Though, I don't think the Asgard really fooled around much, now that I think about it (anyone know better?).  Perhaps a grandson or something would be better if that's the case.  Definitely don't want to deal with being pure god-stuff though.

639
DFRPG / Re: Son of Thor concept for an upcoming campaign
« on: July 03, 2010, 10:02:38 AM »
+1 for researchable is more than reasonable. You could even go to +2, but I like to take the fact into account that people need to realize what you are before they can search for your weakness. And norse-myth Nature is not something that's blatantly obvious.\

Faeries are often far from obvious.  Distinguishing a demon from an Outsider or even some Fae isn't necessarily an easy thing either.  If we're talking about PCs, then they are all going to look pretty human.  If we're worried about the game effect, then I don't think a guy running around with a hammer and some lightning effects makes it THAT hard to guess.  Anyhow, it is certainly no harder than figuring out someone like Kincaid is a demon.  Yeah, some guys with a catch ARE easy to spot, but a lot of them aren't, as the books demonstrate many times.

640
DFRPG / Re: Son of Thor concept for an upcoming campaign
« on: July 03, 2010, 09:08:39 AM »
I'd say Mistletoe is +2, like Deadman says.  Its not something thats immediately obvious to folks who are in the know, so it would require a bit of research, and thats a +1.  It isn't too hard to get ahold of mistletoe, but I wouldn't give it a full +2 because getting it into any form that can be used as a weapon, and thus making its satisfying the catch actually mean anything, would take a bit of work.

Actually, getting it into a form of a weapon is easier than other things.  Smear the sap of the plant on whatever weapon you are using should do fine in a pinch.  In a number of ways that's easier to use than iron, since you can add it to almost any weapon short of magic.

And it doesn't have to be immediately obvious to anyone.  It just has to be easy to fine out.  I think this qualifies as easy, especially in the Dresden-verse (not obvious that this is the case from the books, of course, but that's because it never comes up).  Now, if the group decided that you would need something about as hard to get as a wizard's library to find this out, then that's a +1.  I base my +2 on the fact you can google the information (hence it isn't that hard to find out), and adding in the fact that in the RPG world it wouldn't just be a Baldur thing (which would be close to a +0 during Bladur's time, since it only applied to him).  For game purposes we are expanding that real-world lore to cover more stuff, so one would presume the knowledge would expand.  In any case, I see how one could come down as +1, but in that instance the GM should make sure the info as easy to get as the Baldur info is.

All that said, I'm not entirely happy with using this as a catch.  It does feel a bit odd, aesthetically speaking.

Hmm, we just going to talk about catches here or does anyone have any thoughts on the other stuff I wrote?

641
DFRPG / Re: Son of Thor concept for an upcoming campaign
« on: July 03, 2010, 08:48:01 AM »
Naw, Holy or Mistltoe are definitely +3 or even +4.

Research isn't THAT tough.  It's a little harder than cold iron for Fae (though probably about the same difficulty as realizing cold iron = iron in any form).  Certainly doesn't require access to any remotely hard-to-get books.  Heck, you can google it, and in the Dresden-verse it would probably be a bit easier since the creatures actually exist (which means more lore).  So that's +1 or +2.

Access is also done in very general terms.  The +1 is for VERY rare stuff like true magic, and any plant an average person would know the name of is not that.  Iron is a bit easier to get, but it isn't hard to get mistletoe, plenty of shops sell it.  Definitely not something that's "only a rare class of people in the world have".  This one actually makes me lean towards +2 for Research as well when you think of the difference in scope between +1 and +2 for research "relatively easy to get" vs. "very hard" (and the third category in both is "almost impossible.").

These are very wide categories, one has to remember.

642
DFRPG / Re: item of power-gundam suit
« on: July 03, 2010, 06:24:11 AM »
I'd say you stat the Gundam up as a character in its own right.  I don't think treating it as an Item of Power is really sufficient (and thematically it is kind of weird).  Something more construct-like makes more sense.  There are a number of good reasons to do this.  First, you aren't a joke when you don't have your gundam or can't use it (like gundam pilots, you could still kick some ass well as a Pure Mortal).  Secondly, since the size difference is so large, a gundam is going to be something encounters are going to have to be designed for anyway (either assuming you have it or assuming that you don't), and you might as well treat it as something different at that point.  Note, this means that the gundam can be upgraded separately from your character and vice versa without creating an odd cost-benefit analysis.  Lastly, unlike the average item of power, this isn't something you can carry with you 99% of the time so being an external item is a much bigger deal than the Item of Power rules were designed for.

Now granted, some things are going to have to be adjusted for a gundam.  Skill use and so forth would need some custom tweaks (using the character's skill for some things like Guns and Weapons), but overall the benefits of treating it as a separate character outweigh the penalties (heck, the gundam could potentially have its own Trouble and other aspects that come with it when you use it, which might fit the campaign very well).

643
DFRPG / Son of Thor concept for an upcoming campaign
« on: July 03, 2010, 04:38:32 AM »
Well, I was messing around with a bunch of ideas in my head and decided I wanted to see about making a Thor-like character.  I think having him be Thor's son who largely wants to follow in Thor's footsteps, so to speak (e.g. thunder and lightning, hammer, fighting bad guys, but not copying his dad's deeds).  For the purposes of the character, Thor is angelspawn of some sort (like the OW says most gods are), and a good guy who lives in the Nevernever.  I think my character will have grown up in the Nevernever for a significant amount of time (I want to use "thees" and "thous" without my guy doing it as a fad).  He's NOT an Emissary of the Asgard/Thor though, (Thor wants him to make his own way, but that doesn't mean his dad never asks for a favor...like any relative might).

Obviously the high concept is "Son of Thor".  Right now I am mostly thinking about two issues.  First, what's his trouble?  I've thought of Like his Father before him (e.g. wants to be like dad), One of the Asgard (e.g. their enemies are his enemies and other such things), and "I am the Son of Thor!" (really dislikes concealing his identity).  Anyone have other ideas?

Also, Toughness and perhaps Recovery powers make some sense, but what would his catch be?  I have trouble thinking of something that makes a lot of sense here, best thing I got is "Unholy Power" such as hellfire, unholy water, etc, but that seems far from perfect.  Any thoughts there?

I'm pretty early in the creative stages, obviously, but I thought some people might have some neat ideas to share, so share away!

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