No it's Summer that has offered them support in terms of using Ways and such.I'm pretty sure it was winter who offered them use of their ways. Isn't that why the council forced Harry to work with Mab in book 4?
And with or without the council Harry had to work for Mab in Summer Knight as she bought Harry's debt from Lea.Yeah but Harry could choose which jobs he took. And he wouldn't have taken his first job with Mab if the council hadn't twisted his arm.
Maybe the RPG text is referring to other help Summer provided, such as the battle against the Rampires mentioned in Proven Guilty? I'd think that was more than mild assistance, but understatement is an art.
Thanks for starting this thread. We are watching it and taking notes. The Summer assertion is correct as far as we know, though. (Chad did a lot of meticulous research when he documented the world.)
Am I correct in believing that every "handwritten" comment on the text is accompanied by blue highlighter in the main text? If so, should I keep noting instances where it seems to be missing?
Thanks for starting this thread. We are watching it and taking notes. The Summer assertion is correct as far as we know, though. (Chad did a lot of meticulous research when he documented the world.)
Prob really minor. Did you intend for the images on 100YS and 103YS to have the same color scheme? It's the only place I found in that book where this happens and it stuck out a bit while flipping through the PDF. Might not matter with a printed copy though YMMV.
In the Power Level list (page 53), 'Feet in the Water' and 'Up to your waist' have skills capped at Great. In the Skill Packages chart (page 65), it offers suggestions that include purchasing Superb skills at the 20 and 25 point power levels.
Yes, they're the same color scheme because they're the same scene -- from Fool Moon.
Aha - now I'm thinking it's a reference to the limited assistance Lily promised The Merlin while at Molly's trial, since she did refer to the White Council as "allies" at that point. Guess Summer got tired of the Red Court's incursions into their territory.
I'm looking through the characters in Our World right now
It's helpful! Really, we just mean to rule out attacks there, though.
Under Hiding, on p. 142 of YS, it references situational modifiers as being on p. 214, there are no situational modifiers on this page, just other skills complementing or restricting...which is a somewhat different thing.
I've taken care of everything up to this point. Deadmanwalking, great job! I think I may leave the Carlos thing as it is, though, because... well, because Carlos is special, and I'm sure he's managed to charm his GM into house-ruling that.
YS p. 330, when discussing upgrading NPCs, the suggested skill pyramid for Tim is just plain wrong in almost every possible way (1 Great, 2 Fair, 5 Average…to match a 25 point skill list…to equal Feet in the Water Characters). His suggested Refresh also ignores Tim’s Pure Mortal bonus.
Here, with the skills, you're missing that the ones listed are the *open slots* on the sheet (I've added clarifying language) after the 12 point already shown as spent are taken out of the 25.
Thanks. I do try.
And I was actually suggesting making it general policy, not changing Carlos. :)
Something in the margins of Refinement allowing one to take one specialty and one item slot is perfectly balanced, after all.
I mean, sure, the Erlking is a peer of Mab's--but there's kind of a reason that it's /Mab/ who rules the Worst of the Worst in Faerie, and not the Erlking.
Minor nitpick in the section on the Erlking, it says he has Fairy Queen level power. However when asked about the Erlking's power in relationship to Mab Jim said.
... and that Bob should shut up more often.There's quite a lot of telling Bob to shut up already, check out the index under "Shut up Bob" :D
YS126 False face forward first sentence.... :instead of Rapport to...
YS128 Mental Defense. 2nd paragraph.....when your Conviction and Discipline scores aren't lined up with each another...
Maybe corrected already? Reads "instead of Rapport as" in my updated version.Yep, must already be corrected in the updated file.
Ah, clearly that used to be "one another", or something like that. Thanks!
OW109. The text regarding Bob's location during Harry's time at Hog's Hollow, it spans the page awkwardly, with Bob's Text crossing from the bottom of the left column to a higher line near the bottom of the right column, with Harry's Text sitting in the middle at a funny angle. It is a bit awkward to read the way it's placed.
In Elaines stats in p. 182 OW her ring gives bonuses to defensive power and control, but is used with offensive rote. If I am reading right, it actually uses wands stats but says ring.
It does say that she other items too, so it could be one of those instead. But it still feels weird to link non-statted focus to rote.
Unwilling magical creatures; the deliberate sacrifice of humans or animals.I think magical should be removed...
Not sure if this is typo, but:
In the Index in the back of the books Evil Bob is linked to p. 110 OW and text briefly mentions it there, but the actual sidebar is on p. 111 OW.
Index also, Who is Number One? listed p. UR#6 (Or I just dont get it...)
Hmm, thanks!
Geek joke. Reference to The Prisoner.
Geek joke. Reference to The Prisoner.
No idea if this is already done, but with enchanted items patch all persistent item description are wrong.
Harrys Duster & Warden Sword YS303
Warden Sword at OW174, OW214, OW195 (Luccio, Ramirez and Morgan respectively)
Sidebar OW175
In OW218 Susan's text, 2nd paragraph, says that she was Harry's second in duel with Ortega.
In Trixie Vixen's statblock in OW238 both her Mediocre skills lack numbers. I know the skill level is 0, but since all statted skills have the number printed should it be added for consistency? It's only my opinion.
And...?
Your response time is incredible.
It was Shiro. Damn it, I remembered it wrong. Nothing to see here...
Your response time is incredible.
Technically it was Both of Them.
Only Harry would go to a duel and have 2 different seconds.
Yeah, thanks for that. I'll go through OW and make sure of this. Lawbreaker stunts got left off a bit here and there too, but it's one of those things where they're more relevant for PCs than NPCs because the NPCs who have them are usually pretty far gone and powerful enough as it is.
dont forget to add lawbreaker 7th to the gatekeeper :P
I'm not sure that's necessary. You need to use magic to break a Law, and we have no evidence at all of the Gatekeeper using magic to seek knowledge of beyond the Outer Gates. Mundane research? Sure, I'm sure he does that lots. Reaching there with his Magic? That strikes me as both stupid and suicidal, two things Rashid most definitely is not. And doing mundane research no more breaks the Seventh Law than shooting someone breaks the First.
Characters can also stumble across the
Seventh Law, thanks to the particulars of its
wording: namely, the prohibition against even
researching the Outside. A GM looking to put a
particularly nasty choice in front of her players
could easily “hide” a piece of knowledge within a
forbidden tome of Outsider lore. And if a life is
on the line, isn’t it worth the risk? (The Outsiders
of your game would certainly hope so.)
Furthermore, the
Outside’s intentions are so dark, so dire, that the
Seventh Law is the only one on the books that
isn’t conditioned upon casting a spell. Even doing
research on the Outside and its inhabitants is
verboten, let alone actually pulling power from
there
The 7th law is one that's open to a lot of interpretation on a game by game basis. And some of what you're quoting about is more about its enforcement (by Wardens) than it is about whether or not that actually means you gotta take the Lawbreaker ability. Smiley
At *my* table, I'd probably condition the ability on actual spell craft, but sic the Wardens on your ass if you weren't discreet about your research.
doesn't taint your soul (i.e., require the stunt) until you cast a spell using it.
OW108 - Deborah Benn's character sheet mentions, under skills, "While in wolf-form (shown above)..." when there is nothing "above" relating to her wolf-form. Perhaps I am simply confused on this point, though.
Her skill list (shown above the comment in question) is her skill list in wolf form. Her human form skills are somewhat different.
Ah, ok. That wasn't quite that clear. On that note, though, the skll list has "Guns: Mediocre" without the value "(+0)" next to it. That may be intended, but it's the first time I've seen it while reading.
This may be too late, but the Blessed Words stunt in the Stunts chapter, and that in the NPC descriptions in the Baltimore chapter are not the same Stunt (one lets you Block with Conviction, the other Maneuver). Both are valid Stunts, but one needs a name change.Changing the stunts one to "Devout Words". ;)
Harry yells “Fuego!” as he points his blasting rod, sending a column of flame at the vampire, an attack at Legendary rated at Weapon:8. The vampire rolls to defend against Harry’s roll of Legendary and gets a Great (+4), which means the blast strikes home and inflicts a 12-stress hit on him.Page 251
OW98 Ancient Mai 3rd paragraph says .....it should more about....
Maybe needs the word "be" after should?
I dont know if this has been mentioned or not, but it looks like Martin (OW PG 189) and Susan Rodriguez (OW PG 219) don't have a catch attached to their Inhuman Recovery.
Yeah. When someone has a zero-point Catch, we've tended to leave it off. It's not clear that infectees have the same vulnerabilities that full vampires of the Court do.
Interesting. That's not what it says on YS p. 80 under the Red Court Infected Template. That specifies that you need the Red Court Catch on any Toughness abilities. That should probably be clarified if it's not quite the case.Yeah, crap. I really wish this stuff was sorted out already by now. Fuck.
We know they are affected by the things that hurt the full vamps. Susan enjoys sunbathing because it helps her control her bloodlust.
Sounds reasonable enough to me. :)It'll go through some revisions from there, but it's a start.
Musts: A Red Court Infected must have a high concept that addresses the character’s infected status (e.g., Once Bitten, Twice Red or Infected Insurgent). This aspect may be compelled to inflict watered-down versions of the Red Court’s weaknesses on the character— he will experience aversion to holy objects and sunlight and, when exercising his powers, he may even be damaged by them. On the other hand, these can also help him resist his vampiric urges when he isn’t using his powers.
Its mentioned that they can be compelled to be affected by such things under the part that talks about their high concept.
So it seems that they are only vulnerable to the catch when they are using their powers. Otherwise it helps them control their urges.
Non-Typo potentially major issues that have come up in various threads:
1. Can you apply the original Catch as well as the Stacked Catch to Physical Immunity? It would seem by the rules that you can, but that results in this:
Physical Immunity (-8)
The Catch: Water Magic (+3)
The Catch (Stacked): Non-magical attacks (+5)
I think some of these questions come from a willful misinterpretation of the obvious spirit of the rules. As such I'm gonna get a bit snarky about it. Fair warning.
#1 - The Stacked Catch only applies if you already have another catch applying to your other Toughness powers. There are no other Toughness powers in #1, so the principle of biggest value catch applies, netting only a +5 value.
"Catches cannot reduce the cost of your Toughness powers below –1."
Because "Toughness" is the name of the sum of all powers in this heading it is not completely clear whether this applies to your toughness powers as a whole, or to each individually. Obviously you meant individually, but that is not clear from the text as written.
This also brings up another issue. By looking over how various creatures in OW are set up it is obvious that it doesn't matter how much the "The Catch" is "worth" if the only toughness power you have aside from PI is Inhuman Recovery then "The Catch" MUST be reduced to +1, and this applies before a Stacked Catch is applied. Similarly, if you have Inhuman Recovery and Inhuman Toughness then "The Catch" MUST be reduced to +2, no matter how much it is actually worth, all before a Stacked Catch is applied... Supernatural toughness and Inhuman Recovery and a Catch worth +5? Nope, must be reduced to +4.
Come again? Obviously we meant *as a whole*.
That's why the text reads "This will give you a discount on the overall cost of any and all Toughness powers that you take, "
"Overall cost" means total cost. Total. Of the powers in the Toughness category. I'll warrant that we should make it more clear (despite explicitly referencing Recovery abilities later in the Catch description) that Toughness means Toughness Category, and that will happen tonight. But I think anyone claiming that we're muddying whether it applies to powers individually is failing to read the above quoted phrase correctly (or simply failing to read it, period).
Okay, Overall cost of the powers in the toughness category, so this is acceptable then:
Inhuman Recovery -2
Inhuman Toughness -2
The Catch +5
Physical Invulnerability -8
The Catch (Stacked) +6
Total = -1
Also still not resolved is how Human Form applies when used with only one of the two toughness powers and therefore the exact value of that power is not known.
Related to this is also the fact that if you have more than one power from Toughness the exact refresh cost of each power is not clearly defined because the Catch is applied across all of them.
Example of an issue this causes:
Supernatural Toughness (-4)
Inhuman Recovery (-2)
The Catch: +3
Human Form +?
Applies to Inhuman Recovery
How much is "Inhuman Recovery" worth at this point? Is it -2 making Human Form worth +1, or is it -1, making Human Form worth 0?
Could still use clarification on this.
Okay, Overall cost of the powers in the toughness category, so this is acceptable then:
Inhuman Recovery -2
Inhuman Toughness -2
The Catch +5
Physical Invulnerability -8
The Catch (Stacked) +6
Total = -1
Also still not resolved is how Human Form applies when used with only one of the two toughness powers and therefore the exact value of that power is not known.
OW179 Second paragraph under Maeve .......casting glamours on those to come to her.....
First to should be who?
WTF, dude? Are you not paying any attention?
-2 -2 = -4
+5 is an illegal Catch value. +3 is the max you can have with that. Period. Full stop.
Hmm, you need an stacked Catch on the Physical Immunity. Since you need an Catch, right?
Actually, reread the first sentence of the revision. Your normal Catch covers Physical Immunity as well unless you take a Stacked Catch.
Believe me, without the errata my example made perfect sense with what you were saying.This is where we disagree. Sorry about the jumpin', though -- I feel like this territory has been well-trod and well-explained, and the frustration with continued questions on the topic has really been peaking for me lately.
…which makes your other Toughness powers basically worthless, doesn't it? If you have PI with the same catch, then they won't ever (or will almost never) come into play. Anything that doesn't fill the Catch will be blocked by the PI and anything that does will bypass everything.
Sidle is a real word. :)