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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Smaug with OCD on June 30, 2017, 03:47:41 AM
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Earlier today, I was doing a bit of research for a side project of mine, and stumbled across Forbes Fictional 16. Listed at number two was Smaug(Sadly, no relation), with 54 billion dollars in estimated wealth. And, that got me wondering: How much is Ferrovax worth? I get that he's a semi-divine being, but he's a Dragon. And, Dragons have hoards. I'm curious what you think one-thousand(or more!) years of interest and investments would get him. Alternatively, maybe he doesn't make investments. Could he just sit on it instead(doubtful, given his vault at Marcone's place)?
Thoughts?
NOTE: This is purely for silly, random fun. So... have fun with it!
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I think he's loaded. Would he have investments? I dunno. I think gold, jewels, rare artwork, literature, and powerful magical relics are more his style.
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I think he's loaded. Would he have investments? I dunno. I think gold, jewels, rare artwork, literature, and powerful magical relics are more his style.
Well, those are investments. They just aren't that liquid (apart from the gold, which can be quickly sold for cash). But who needs liquid assets when you are an immortal that's as old as the world.
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Reference post with what we know about Ferro's wealth thus far:
In GP he was given a case several million dollars worth of gold and jewels.
2016 DF Reddit podcast Q&A
What did Ferrovax receive at Bianca's party?
He got gold and gems. Not like a ton, it was several million dollars worth.
In SG, he had stored "rows upon rows of closed, Fireproof safes"
And an honorable mention regarding Dragon Hordes:
2014 AMA
1) What ever happened to Siriothrax's hoard? Did any of the magical powerups in the series we've seen so far originate there?
1) Heh, it's still right where it was. NO ONE wants to pick up anything from a Dragon's hoard. Talk about Death Curses...
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^ Maybe they just need a little https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0ry4qBSX2U
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Reference post with what we know about Ferro's wealth thus far:
In GP he was given a case several million dollars worth of gold and jewels.
In SG, he had stored "rows upon rows of closed, Fireproof safes"
And an honorable mention regarding Dragon Hordes:
Interesting, I always wondered what the gift was.. thought it was something more impressive than that.
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A dragon hoard is cursed, but what if the treasure is taken after it has passed through multiple hands. The treasure is set to go after thieves, but after a couple dozen transactions, are they still thieves.
I totally see someone using cursed treasure to eliminate others, then reclaim it safely.
There is a common theme of you can't protect yourself from your own energy. I wonder if the curse is best suited to mess with dragons, they would see each other as the greatest competition.
While the curse is sure to be awesome, I still think there would be ways to by pass it. Dresden is always learning secrets that would get him killed so why not one more. We know there are very few true dragons left, 2 I think, so there treasure would be very useful. Not for the wealth, but the artifacts, knowledge and magic they would contain. They might be a treasure hoard, but you can bet, there is enough to make it an armory in the right conditions.
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You unearthed a woj I hadn't seen about what was the gift to Ferro.
I got a wag that the red court placed their repository in New Mexico at such a dragon hoard location and consequently paid for it. I still wonder if a some time travel plot plants some items or leads in changes to help Harry. He'll, I have two overlayed Harry's talking to Mrs. Spunklecrief. One who just thinks she is a hard of hearing, old lady. Another that views her as a real player giving hints to shape outcomes.
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It is believed the gift to the dragon was tainted, similar to the athame. If added to the treasure hoard, could it alter the curse on it?
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I got a wag that the red court placed their repository in New Mexico at such a dragon hoard location and consequently paid for it.
iirc only Harry, Martin, and Susan knew the location of that Red Court vault. Is it standing abandoned in the desert, just waiting for Harry to remember and use it as his personal arcane walmart?
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It is believed the gift to the dragon was tainted, similar to the athame. If added to the treasure hoard, could it alter the curse on it?
Believed by who? The only WoJ I've seen on the matter was ambiguous, someone asked him if Ferro's gift was tainted like Lea's, and he said, 'Oh please." or something like that.
Which of course doesn't really answer the question. Was JB saying being sarcastic, dismissing the idea that Ferro could fall for something like that? Or was he being sarcastic about the idea that he would reveal something like that? Or he could just as easily have been saying, "Of course it was!"
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iirc only Harry, Martin, and Susan knew the location of that Red Court vault. Is it standing abandoned in the desert, just waiting for Harry to remember and use it as his personal arcane walmart?
I wonder about this.
Those caves were owned by a company or companies that were controlled by the Rampires. With the Rampires gone, would the companies be gone as well?
If not, then wouldn't the security and such still be in place?
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The management and possibly securit would definitly have been Demi rcv. So it is possible for a time the low levels managed it, but any magics or protections that required the rcv would have failed. So any tone would have gone after these outposts.
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As to Ferrofax ... I can't believe he wouldn't want to grow his "hoard". Thus, I believe he'd have investments. He does have vaults (assuming Marcone's isn't the only one).
As to his value. I'd say he's orders of magnitude above folks like Warren Buffet or any of the Princes of Arabia.
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It is believed the gift to the dragon was tainted, similar to the athame. If added to the treasure hoard, could it alter the curse on it?
Only if Bianca had a death wish (I know I know, but pretend she didn't expect to die via Harrybomb). Ferro is a Dragon, capital "D", remember? As in Immortal Force of Nature On Par With Mab. And Ferro is quite a bit more direct than Mab. I'm pretty sure if the ramps had been dumb enough to curse his gift, he would have wiped them out for the insult.
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Only if Bianca had a death wish (I know I know, but pretend she didn't expect to die via Harrybomb). Ferro is a Dragon, capital "D", remember? As in Immortal Force of Nature On Par With Mab. And Ferro is quite a bit more direct than Mab. I'm pretty sure if the ramps had been dumb enough to curse his gift, he would have wiped them out for the insult.
If it was the Ramps who cursed the gift. Personally, I don't' believe that Bianca knew the Athame was tainted.
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If it was the Ramps who cursed the gift. Personally, I don't' believe that Bianca knew the Athame was tainted.
This^^.
Bianca looks to me like a tool of a tool. Ortega was there, remember. If he had wanted to prevent war with the White Council, he could easily have made it happen. So Bianca was being used as a tool by the Red Court to start a war with the Council on a pretext.
But the Red Court, in turn, as a body, was being used as a tool by Somebody/Something in a bigger, longer game. That's the people I would expect to be behind the tainted athame and the rest. It's a good question whether any of the Court knew anything about the curse.
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Given that Arianna was probably a member of the black council/Circle, and that Duke Ortega was technically her vassal, I could totally see her ordering him to go, offer this to Winter, and he was clueless.
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This^^.
Bianca looks to me like a tool of a tool. Ortega was there, remember. If he had wanted to prevent war with the White Council, he could easily have made it happen. So Bianca was being used as a tool by the Red Court to start a war with the Council on a pretext.
But the Red Court, in turn, as a body, was being used as a tool by Somebody/Something in a bigger, longer game. That's the people I would expect to be behind the tainted athame and the rest. It's a good question whether any of the Court knew anything about the curse.
Concur. She was clearly not privvy to the Red Court/Black Council schemes in Storm Front, given how she reacted to one of her's being targeted. Given that I doubt they'd (the LotON) have trusted her with the Big Picture even if they (the Red Court) were actually aware of Nemesis or Cowl's schemes (Im assuming here that Cowl at least was 100% aware of it all).
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The fomor was apparently supplying weapons and other material to the rcv for their war effort so they likely had great influence for their strategies.
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If it was the Ramps who cursed the gift. Personally, I don't' believe that Bianca knew the Athame was tainted.
Wasn't there a WoJ that said Bianca's gifts were to the people she considered her enemies? I'd have to go hunting for it, it's the ghost of a glimmer of a hazy remembrance.
If I'm wrong, then you make a good point. I didn't even think of that.
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Concur. She was clearly not privvy to the Red Court/Black Council schemes in Storm Front, given how she reacted to one of her's being targeted. Given that I doubt they'd (the LotON) have trusted her with the Big Picture even if they (the Red Court) were actually aware of Nemesis or Cowl's schemes (Im assuming here that Cowl at least was 100% aware of it all).
After I posted earlier, I re-read that bit of Grave Peril. Interestingly, Bianca herself seemed very surprised by Harry's reaction to her scheme, when he started blasting away and summoned up the shades of their former victims, Bianca seemed stunned, amazed, shocked that he would risk war over Susan.
But Bianca was never the sharpest fang, if you know what I mean. I'm more convinced than ever that she didn't really have a clue what was going on, even with her own Court. The Red Court was ready for war, and ready to use Harry and Susan as the pretext to start it, but I'm not sure Bianca understood that that was what was going down. I think she'd been manipulated by the higher ups in her own Court to think that this was all about sticking it to her personal enemies, including Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden.
My guess is that Ortega was there, in part, to make sure Bianca did what they needed her to do and didn't upset the applecart.
Now, regarding Ortega...
Given that Arianna was probably a member of the black council/Circle, and that Duke Ortega was technically her vassal, I could totally see her ordering him to go, offer this to Winter, and he was clueless.
Yeah, if anybody among the Reds had some idea of what was happening at that party, it was probably Arianna. She was likely planning a coup against the Red King, and she was apparently at that infamous 'dinner party' many years ago that might have been when all this was set in motion.
But even if Ariana knew some of it, I doubt she knew it all, or anything close to it.
Wasn't there a WoJ that said Bianca's gifts were to the people she considered her enemies? I'd have to go hunting for it, it's the ghost of a glimmer of a hazy remembrance.
If I'm wrong, then you make a good point. I didn't even think of that.
It works either way.
For ex, Bianca probably doesn't think of Ferro as her enemy. It's hard to imagine Bianca having Ferro as an enemy and still being around long enough to be a headache for Harry, Michael, and Thomas. Yet Ferro got a gift.
But Bianca probably thought her 'special' gifts were for her enemies, like Harry's tombstone. She might not even have given the athame a thought.
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But Bianca probably thought her 'special' gifts were for her enemies, like Harry's tombstone. She might not even have given the athame a thought.
I agree that Bianca wasn't the brightest star in the heavens.
That being said, we know that Leah desired the Athame to augment her power to fight their enemy. We all assumed at the time she was referring to Summer, but now I wonder if she meant Nemesis and the outsiders.
That being the case, did Leah know that the Athame was tainted? And did she think she might be able to overcome the nemfection?
Again, if that's the case, when she traded Ammoricius to Bianca for the Athame, did she really believe that the Athame WITHOUT the taint, was an equal to the sword? If she knew about the taint, then the Athame AND the nemfection together equals the Sword of Love, not just the Athame alone.
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I agree that Bianca wasn't the brightest star in the heavens.
That being said, we know that Leah desired the Athame to augment her power to fight their enemy. We all assumed at the time she was referring to Summer, but now I wonder if she meant Nemesis and the outsiders.
To the best of my knowledge she never said "Enemy" (just confirmed its not in GP, SK, PG or GS), and the implication Id always gotten was the same as Mab's statement in DB, that Lea had Challenged her (Mab's) authority. Fwiw Leah does very much consider Mab an Enemy, and vice versa, just a reliable Enemy with a good working relationship, a "Gadara".
That being the case, did Leah know that the Athame was tainted? And did she think she might be able to overcome the nemfection?
No, she did not know until later. She stated as much pretty directly in GS during the graveyard conversation.
Again, if that's the case, when she traded Ammoricius to Bianca for the Athame, did she really believe that the Athame WITHOUT the taint, was an equal to the sword? If she knew about the taint, then the Athame AND the nemfection together equals the Sword of Love, not just the Athame alone.
Yup, it formerly belonged to Morgan LaFey, and had gained Power through accumulated use/exposure:
2011 Naperville Signing
What is the Black Athame, and what is it’s relation to Medea’s Bodkin?
The Black Athame was Morgan La Fay’s athame. That was the one that got traded around in Grave Peril… at the vampire costume party. Well an Athame is the original knife that was used in magic, and while they aren’t necessarily magical themselves, if you involve them in enough really cool big things that are going on, they start gaining their own sort of power and their own sort of awareness. Which is not to say they become intelligent or anything, but they become very extremely dangerous tools. And that one was a very, very dangerous tool, on a level with Ammoracchius, which is why it got traded that way. Medea’s Bodkin is another Athame that is far older, and is used more classically documented witches. The ones who actually survived falls of several empires there –you still hear about them- Also a very bad news kind of implement, just so you know.
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Yup, it formerly belonged to Morgan LaFey, and had gained Power through accumulated use/exposure:
So, she was intending on trading a Sword of the Cross, for the Athame. What she got was the Athame + a taint.
Question is, did that make the Athame more, or less and equal to Ammoricius?
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So, she was intending on trading a Sword of the Cross, for the Athame. What she got was the Athame + a taint.
Question is, did that make the Athame more, or less and equal to Ammoricius?
I dont think that really changes it's value calculation in any worthwhile way. The need to trade things of equal value is fundamental but still subjective. Since she did not know of the Taint it didnt figure into her calculations; and all bargains are about capitalizing on the difference between your own estimation of value and whomever you are bargaining with. Had she known, it would have severely reduced the "value" of the athame to Lea, given what it cost her to Undo said taint. Unless she knew of an actual Use for a tainted Item, or some other person that she might be able to trade it to at a profit.
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I dont think that really changes it's value calculation in any worthwhile way. The need to trade things of equal value is fundamental but still subjective.
Exactly. The Sidhe cannot knowingly lie, but they can spout falsehoods all day if they believe them. Likewise, they have to make equal deals, within the bounds of their knowledge and understanding. If Lea (for whatever deranged reason) believed that my ink pen was as valuable as a gold brick, she'd trade me the ink pen for the gold brick just fine.
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Yup, it formerly belonged to Morgan LaFey, and had gained Power through accumulated use/exposure:
2011 Naperville Signing
What is the Black Athame, and what is it’s relation to Medea’s Bodkin?
The Black Athame was Morgan La Fay’s athame. That was the one that got traded around in Grave Peril… at the vampire costume party. Well an Athame is the original knife that was used in magic, and while they aren’t necessarily magical themselves, if you involve them in enough really cool big things that are going on, they start gaining their own sort of power and their own sort of awareness. Which is not to say they become intelligent or anything, but they become very extremely dangerous tools. And that one was a very, very dangerous tool, on a level with Ammoracchius, which is why it got traded that way. Medea’s Bodkin is another Athame that is far older, and is used more classically documented witches. The ones who actually survived falls of several empires there –you still hear about them- Also a very bad news kind of implement, just so you know.
Which makes me wonder just what badness Morgan le Fey was into that amplified her blade to such an extent, and how that badness affects Harry.
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In the arryns stories, there were three weapons. A sword, dagger and spear. If the sword of the cross is Excalibur, I wonder if the athame is the dagger.
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Exactly. The Sidhe cannot knowingly lie, but they can spout falsehoods all day if they believe them. Likewise, they have to make equal deals, within the bounds of their knowledge and understanding. If Lea (for whatever deranged reason) believed that my ink pen was as valuable as a gold brick, she'd trade me the ink pen for the gold brick just fine.
I dont think that really changes it's value calculation in any worthwhile way. The need to trade things of equal value is fundamental but still subjective. Since she did not know of the Taint it didnt figure into her calculations; and all bargains are about capitalizing on the difference between your own estimation of value and whomever you are bargaining with. Had she known, it would have severely reduced the "value" of the athame to Lea, given what it cost her to Undo said taint. Unless she knew of an actual Use for a tainted Item, or some other person that she might be able to trade it to at a profit.
Right, right. Value is in the eye of the beholder.
Did Mab take the Athame in payment for curing Leah, or did she take it for some other reason?
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Right, right. Value is in the eye of the beholder.
Did Mab take the Athame in payment for curing Leah, or did she take it for some other reason?
I'd been assuming the former since we found out the whole deal in CD. If she took it for some other reason, then we have two separate bargains with unknowns on one side. But that might explain why Mab was personally wearing the athame in her appearance in DB, which has always bothered my given that it was the vector for Nemfection.
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I'd been assuming the former since we found out the whole deal in CD. If she took it for some other reason, then we have two separate bargains with unknowns on one side. But that might explain why Mab was personally wearing the athame in her appearance in DB, which has always bothered my given that it was the vector for Nemfection.
Unless she'd already determined that it could no longer transmit nemesis.
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Unless she'd already determined that it could no longer transmit nemesis.
That's the only explanation I can come up with, though Id like some nod to it one day. The only other option I can think of would be that the Queen of Winter is somehow immune, but CD certainly made that unlikely.
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That's the only explanation I can come up with, though Id like some nod to it one day. The only other option I can think of would be that the Queen of Winter is somehow immune, but CD certainly made that unlikely.
Agreed, though maybe her wearing it WAS a nod to it no longer being a nemesis threat.
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That's the only explanation I can come up with, though Id like some nod to it one day. The only other option I can think of would be that the Queen of Winter is somehow immune, but CD certainly made that unlikely.
Is it not possible that she's 'immune' in so much that, if she's aware and on the ball, then like with the Gatekeeper's eye detecting Nemesis, it's next to impossible to N-fect a Fae Queen once you get into the Mab/Titania realm. It makes sense the Ladies can be vulnerable as the youngest, least experienced and powerful of the trio. The Queens might be able to be N-fected, but it's as unlikely to happen as anything (though some have, and will argue that Titania is probably vulnerable now in her emotional state, though I think it's overstated). And when you get to the Mothers, they are probably 'literally' incapable of being tainted.
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Is it not possible that she's 'immune' in so much that, if she's aware and on the ball, then like with the Gatekeeper's eye detecting Nemesis, it's next to impossible to N-fect a Fae Queen once you get into the Mab/Titania realm. It makes sense the Ladies can be vulnerable as the youngest, least experienced and powerful of the trio. The Queens might be able to be N-fected, but it's as unlikely to happen as anything (though some have, and will argue that Titania is probably vulnerable now in her emotional state, though I think it's overstated). And when you get to the Mothers, they are probably 'literally' incapable of being tainted.
Could also be simply a matter of a) being willing, which is required and which Maeve was not and b)having access to the proper Wellspring, being the means we've seen Mab remove Nemfection. Thought Lea is not a Mantled creature like the Queens, so there is that difference.
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There is a common theme of that can't protect yourself from your own energies. So I wonder if those infected by nemesis, cold be vulnerable to the athame itself? So say Ferra is infected, Harry could use that blade to harm him more easily.
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There is a common theme of that can't protect yourself from your own energies. So I wonder if those infected by nemesis, cold be vulnerable to the athame itself? So say Ferra is infected, Harry could use that blade to harm him more easily.
That would be really cool, and an interesting way to keep the athame relevant.
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It is always awesome using the enemies weapons against themselves.
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It is always awesome using the enemies weapons against themselves.
Which is also a common thread throughout the series