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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: RobReece on August 27, 2023, 12:52:52 AM
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I can't remember if this had been discussed or not. Probably had, but is there any consensus on if he was open to possession from the time he spent with Justine?
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Goodman Grey is a single unaffiliated individual, his Nemfection would not advance Nemesis cause one jot.
Nemesis appears to be finite, incapable of mass infection. We know from the Corner Hounds that they can control a maximum of 13 bodies. Obviously controlling a powerful strong willed individual would be more difficult than a blank ectoplasmic body so that number is limited by the strength of the host, and their degree of cooperation.Note Justine simply didn’t infect Thomas, she revealed herself and blackmailed him.
I think Nemesis was overstretched as part may have been “Killed” with previous hosts (I think with Madeleine Lara consumed part of Nemesis) leaving Nemesis weak) I therefore think there wasn’t enough Nemesis to go around to infect Goodman Grey at that point.
Justine was especially vulnerable to Nemesis, Goodman Grey was not.
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@Conspiracy Theorist:
I do hope you are right. Though the Leanandsidhe managed to get nemfected, and she is supposed to be powerful. What was her weakness?
I don't think Nemesis infects only the weak people, though it may be easier to gain access. I think the walker tries to infect people in a position near to those defending the gates, or better to say those who seem to play a role in preventing the Outsiders to become Insiders.
Does Grey play a role in this? No idea. He is not that close to anybody and no one trusts him that much, so probably not a preferable host.
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The Athame was a specially prepared vector, and Nemesis may have been stronger at that point, not having split up into multiple parts. We have no complete idea who really was infected and when.
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This is interesting. If Lea hasn't been 'cured' but treated, then it could be that nemesis in some capacity remains with her or with Mab/Winter's Heart. That split of power is a significantly higher investment than likely those of mere mortals. It could be that like others said that power in stasis has led to a weakening of Nemesis' power that can be utilized outside of that stasis.
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That is a viable prospect the portion of Nemesis infecting Lea may have been forced into another host currently held captive in Mab’s Ice Garden prison. Someone less powerful on Mab’s poop list.
Nameless was exiled after the abortive attempt to free Lea, so that may corroborate this theory, if Nameless (as Cowl) was the inside man for the Arctis Tor attack he couldn’t act to free the imprisoned part of Nemesis.
We have been presuming that Nemesis arose just before Grave Peril. What if they started much earlier and a significant portion of nemesis infected the English Prisoner and he accepted voluntary incarceration? What if Justine was infected with 1/13th of Nemesis and the rest was either in Demonreach or Arctis Tor trapped? That would explain Justine trying to access Demonreach. As I said before we have not a very clear idea of Nemesis full vectors who was infected an when and whether they were cooperative hosts or fighting against Nemfection.
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... If Lea hasn't been 'cured' but treated, then it could be that nemesis in some capacity remains with her ...
In fact Lea does still have Nemesis issues, even after Mab's treatment.
When she spoke to Harry she wasn't able to explain very much, saying she couldn't think about it much "lest she become vulnerable again" (or somesuch).
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This is interesting. If Lea hasn't been 'cured' but treated, then it could be that nemesis in some capacity remains with her or with Mab/Winter's Heart. That split of power is a significantly higher investment than likely those of mere mortals. It could be that like others said that power in stasis has led to a weakening of Nemesis' power that can be utilized outside of that stasis.
*mere* mortals?
As Harry aptly explained, mere mortals can defy absolutely everyone. Most don't, but they can. I wouldn't think infecting, say, Charity Carpenter would be cheaper/easier than infecting Maeve.
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In fact Lea does still have Nemesis issues, even after Mab's treatment.
When she spoke to Harry she wasn't able to explain very much, saying she couldn't think about it much "lest she become vulnerable again" (or somesuch).
PTSD what you think Mab is into art therapy and kind words? She would have had to drive Nemwsis out, so Lea doesn’t suffer from the infection, she suffered from the cure and may be something like a recovering alcoholic
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We do have WOJ that Mab thought what she did with Lea/Nemesis infection was the best option. Mab is going to find there is some negative outcome with how she went about treating Lea. Some believe Nemesis came to infect the Heart of Winter.
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*mere* mortals?
As Harry aptly explained, mere mortals can defy absolutely everyone. Most don't, but they can. I wouldn't think infecting, say, Charity Carpenter would be cheaper/easier than infecting Maeve.
I was aware of the "mere mortal" issue when I wrote it. I still think it is largely true that nemesis infection of a Mother would tie up more of Nemesis than an infection of mortals, even Charity. I think a 'defy absolutely everyone' if it was in play would outright prevent infection. Also, it may be that Charity isn't quite all Mortal as she had some wizard heritage.
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PTSD what you think Mab is into art therapy and kind words? She would have had to drive Nemwsis out, so Lea doesn’t suffer from the infection, she suffered from the cure ...
There may be some PTSD or PTSD-alike from Mab's "cure" (and/or from the Nemfection, which seems traumatic to experience (if we are to judge from Cat Sith's struggles, etc)).
But Lea didn't say it would be painful; she said she was still vulnerable: Nemesis still has some sort of "inside track" into Lea's mind; just thinking about Nemfection puts her at risk of a recurrence.
... and may be something like a recovering alcoholic
This could be a good model.
Or cancer in remission.
I don't think we know, really.
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Lea was free for a time from the restrictions of Winter Law, that she may miss, we have seen how Aurora and Maeve both chafed under the Law, so that’s why there is a degree of wistfulness about her Nemfection, as well as negative emotions. Unfortunately there isn’t a Nemesis Anonymous, Lea is the only current survivor. Perhaps she can be a sponsor to Justine? I can see Harry suggesting that.Nemesis appears to have freed Justine from her pre-existing condition, so again when Justine is free of Nemesis she may be vulnerable.
Goodman Grey could be vulnerable if Nemesis was able to free him of his rent obligation, but he doesn’t appear to be unduly chafing under that. A full Naagloshii might be more vulnerable in that respect and I think Nemesis would love to partner up with Shagnasty, and it might be mutual, like Maeve and Aurora. There might be enough Nemesis in Justine for that. Shaggy eats Wizards, targeting the White council and the Senior Council in particular would benefit Nemesis and Shaggy. Nemesis would want the Gatekeeper, Shaggy, Listens To The Wind. If LTW cannot banish Shaggy because Nemesis has removed Shaggys restrictions then LTW is in big trouble, and he is already injured.
It’s not Goodman Grey I worry about being nemfected..
I think we are due for a rematch with Shagnasty, Harry is trying to get his mental health together in Next Book and Shagnasty is the ultimate test of that plus he is about to be taught shape shifting.
I would point out Harry now lives in a Castle with similar protections to the ruined Cottage on Demonreach which Shaggy found Anathema, and we have learnt you can use a veil or glamour in its vicinity. Nemesis doesn’t know this. As Harry got the Castle after deducing Justine was nemfected.
If I was taking out Shaggy I would use the superpunch built into Harry’s Staff to blow him into the Castle and then have the gargoyles whale on him .
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Re: Goodman Grey, nemfected?
« Reply #12 on: Today at 06:17:05 AM »
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Lea was free for a time from the restrictions of Winter Law, that she may miss, we have seen how Aurora and Maeve both chafed under the Law, so that’s why there is a degree of wistfulness about her Nemfection, as well as negative emotions. Unfortunately there isn’t a Nemesis Anonymous, Lea is the only current survivor. Perhaps she can be a sponsor to Justine? I can see Harry suggesting that.Nemesis appears to have freed Justine from her pre-existing condition, so again when Justine is free of Nemesis she may be vulnerable.
When exactly was Lea free from Winter Law restrictions? When she was infected by the Knife she may have for a time thought she was, but she wasn't. She never was, and in the end that's why she submitted to Mab and agreed to undergo treatment.
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She could lie, she could disobey Mab, doubtless this is how Mab deduced her nemfection.
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She could lie, she could disobey Mab, doubtless this is how Mab deduced her nemfection.
Could she? Would it have made any difference? Maeve lied as well, but Mab didn't notice anything until it was too late. And in the end Lea couldn't disobey Mab, the infestation hadn't gone that far, Mab realized something was off and Lea confessed everything and gave up the Knife and went into ice rehab.
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Maeve was her daughter, a known rebel within Winter Law
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She could lie, she could disobey Mab, doubtless this is how Mab deduced her nemfection.
The fae love to deceive.
But... when did Lea actually lie?
I don't recall that she did.
Similarly, I don't recall that she ever disobeyed a direct order from Mab; worked against the spirit or the intent, sure! But Mab chose Lea specifically to be a challenge, to keep herself sharp by honing herself on Lea's resistance.
Maybe that all happened offscreen...?
We know that Nemfection can let the nemfected break rules... Maeve absolutely reveled in the ability to lie. We don't -- AFAIK -- know that it's always the same rule-breaking for all entities.
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You don’t deceive Mab, not if you are Winter.
Yes it likely happened off screen for dramatic reasons, we first learn of Leas Nemfection when Harry comes across her imprisoned and she pleads with him to release her. As readers we are deliberately given no clue.
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You don't deceive Mab in the long term. But she's not omniscient and you can get things over in short term.
Lea and Maeve were both Nemfected, It didn't take Mab long to discover it, but a lot of damage was done.
Harry's suicide was successful and would have been permanent if not for Ivy's threat to Kincaid and Mab going to extraordinary measures to save him. She was actually pleased with the attempt.
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You don't deceive Mab in the long term. But she's not omniscient and you can get things over in short term.
Lea and Maeve were both Nemfected, It didn't take Mab long to discover it, but a lot of damage was done.
Harry's suicide was successful and would have been permanent if not for Ivy's threat to Kincaid and Mab going to extraordinary measures to save him. She was actually pleased with the attempt.
Yes; all of this.
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Harry's suicide was successful and would have been permanent if not for Ivy's threat to Kincaid and Mab going to extraordinary measures to save him. She was actually pleased with the attempt.
But was it really? Interesting that it was a shot to the heart and not the head, death wasn't instant was it? That he fell into ice cold water that would immediately begin to cool his body and slow things down, that he just happened to fall into Mab's waiting arms. If he had fallen onto the deck, he would have quickly bled out. Harry was never all dead, he was mostly dead, which is slightly alive. Uriel wanted to teach Harry a lesson, and Mab felt she had no choice but to go along knowing it was a risk because "death is a spectrum". Ivy was pissed because Harry would think of doing such a thing, and more pissed at Kincaid because he'd go along with it. It is my opinion that both Mab and Uriel anticipated what Harry was going to do and acted accordingly.
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Harry was never all dead, he was mostly dead, which is slightly alive.
Perfect
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But was it really? Interesting that it was a shot to the heart and not the head, death wasn't instant was it? That he fell into ice cold water that would immediately begin to cool his body and slow things down, that he just happened to fall into Mab's waiting arms. If he had fallen onto the deck, he would have quickly bled out. Harry was never all dead, he was mostly dead, which is slightly alive. Uriel wanted to teach Harry a lesson, and Mab felt she had no choice but to go along knowing it was a risk because "death is a spectrum". Ivy was pissed because Harry would think of doing such a thing, and more pissed at Kincaid because he'd go along with it. It is my opinion that both Mab and Uriel anticipated what Harry was going to do and acted accordingly.
Ivy forced Kincaid to make a chest shot and not a headshot. If Kincaid had done it with a headshot Harry would be DEAD dead. There wouldn't have been enough for Mab to save.
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Harry's suicide was successful and would have been ...
But was it really? ...
Yes, it was "successful," insofar as he arranged a fatal injury for himself, which happened.
If it had been most other people, they'd have died.
If Harry hadn't had other interested parties get involved (without his knowledge or consent), Harry himself would have died.
... Interesting that it was a shot to the heart and not the head, death wasn't instant was it? ...
We know Ivy's involvement, there. And Mab, Uriel, Alfred after the fact... maybe before?
... That he fell into ice cold water that would immediately begin to cool his body and slow things down, that he just happened to fall into Mab's waiting arms. If he had fallen onto the deck, he would have quickly bled out. ...
As you say.
It makes me wonder, whether beings like Mab... like frikkin' Uriel! ... really left that moment up to "chance."
Rock the boat at the right moment... a few Pixies dragging Harry's shoulders... a Nixie or Neriad actually reaching on-board to grab him... Was there really ever any chance of "if he had fallen onto the deck"?
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Uriel would have known if the arrangements as an Intellectus, Mab wouldn’t, and he couldn’t intervene even to telling Mab, except that Harry was pushed to it by an infernal nudge. That was enough for him to intervene in relation to Harry’s spirit and warn Mab.
Demonreach would have known separately through his limited intellectus was over the Lake and Demonreach has been shown as extending his influence to the Lake Shore in BG. It was fortunate Harry wasn’t shot inland. Demonreach required Mab’s help to manifest in the Cemetery.
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Yes, it was "successful," insofar as he arranged a fatal injury for himself, which happened.
Since Harry lives, it wasn't successful, it was a failed attempt. You can be successful in taking a fatal dose of sleeping pills, but if I come upon you in time and your stomach is pumped out and you live,it wasn't successful. Harry arranged what he thought would be a fatal injury to himself, and believed it was fatal up until the time he woke up in Mab's arms on Demonreach. However Uriel and Mab had arranged it so it wouldn't be fatal, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't have been as Mab admitted, there were risks with Uriel's plan.. If she had her way, the shot would never have been fired in the first place and Harry would be suffering the effects of a huge ice cube being shoved in a most uncomfortable place.
If Harry hadn't had other interested parties get involved (without his knowledge or consent), Harry himself would have died.
That is true, but the truth is he couldn't hide what he was planning from an archangel and the Winter Queen. So they planned an intervention to stop him from killing himself. However Uriel is a bit wiser than Mab and realizing that merely stopping Harry from killing himself wouldn't be effective because Harry still believed as Winter Knight he'd be Mab's monster. So the Uriel version of "It's a Wonderful Life," Harry begins to realize some things, and Uriel's seven words had it's desired effect.
We know Ivy's involvement, there. And Mab, Uriel, Alfred after the fact... maybe before?
Of course before, Uriel, Mab, and maybe even Alfred, intervened. It was a close thing,and was meant to be a close thing between fatal and nearly fatal. Heart shot, not a head shot, falling into the ice cold water verses falling on the deck, falling into Mab's waiting arms verses just falling in the water to drown, life saving fluids from the island itself that kept Harry in a coma, alive, oh and last but not least, the "parasite" who would become Bonny agreeing to act as a heart lung machine
during all of this.
It makes me wonder, whether beings like Mab... like frikkin' Uriel! ... really left that moment up to "chance."
I don't believe they did, careful reading of what Mab said to Harry after he woke up says they didn't. She was still miffed at Uriel for taking such a chance with her Winter Knight in order to teach him a lesson, and I don't think it was his soul that she was worried about.
Rock the boat at the right moment... a few Pixies dragging Harry's shoulders... a Nixie or Neriad actually reaching on-board to grab him... Was there really ever any chance of "if he had fallen onto the deck"?
Not a chance in my opinion... And actually it fits with what Uriel said about "balance," Lasciel's words pushed Harry to suicide, so he was allowed to counter it. There are rules, even though in some religions the taking of one's own life is a mortal sin, angels, even archangels are not allowed to interfere with human free will. Lasciel's actions allowed Uriel to do just that, interfere with Harry's free will, he didn't allow Harry to kill himself.
Ivy forced Kincaid to make a chest shot and not a headshot. If Kincaid had done it with a headshot Harry would be DEAD dead. There wouldn't have been enough for Mab to save.
True, but why didn't Ivy just stop Kincaid from shooting Harry all together? I wouldn't be shocked if Uriel had something to do with that as well.
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There was a question I'd had, the shot Kincaid took wasn't any past event written down or even discussed. How did Ivy know to even specify that it needed to be done that way. Do we have any knowledge of interaction between Ivy and Mab or Mr. Sunshine? Granted, she's a member of the Accords, and she's even older than Mab. At least her knowledge is.
If it weren't for that mini story, we could have written the "miss" off to Harry's slip throwing off Kincaid aim.
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There was a question I'd had, the shot Kincaid took wasn't any past event written down or even discussed. How did Ivy know to even specify that it needed to be done that way. Do we have any knowledge of interaction between Ivy and Mab or Mr. Sunshine? Granted, she's a member of the Accords, and she's even older than Mab. At least her knowledge is.
If it weren't for that mini story, we could have written the "miss" off to Harry's slip throwing off Kincaid aim.
Good point, only way I can think of is Harry wrote Kincaid a check for the amount he agreed to pay him for assassinating him, then the Archive would have known something was up, and hence Ivy. However my point still stands why didn't Ivy just stop the shooting all together? Actually it might be possible that the Archive found out about Harry's plans first because of the check, let Uriel and Mab know, and Uriel convinced the Archive/Ivy to go along with his plan.
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Ivy is a teenager at this point, so of course she was eavesdropping on her ‘parent’. Occam’s razor.
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Ivy is a teenager at this point, so of course she was eavesdropping on her ‘parent’. Occam’s razor.
Even so, it doesn't explain why she didn't insist that he didn't shoot Harry at all.
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Even so, it doesn't explain why she didn't insist that he didn't shoot Harry at all.
The only way I see it, is that she was aware of what Uriel had intended... but I'm not sure if I buy that or not...
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I think it was more about hope than anything else. Harry was her only friend, but she had to respect the possibility that he was correct in ordering his execution. Kincaid was the only parent she's known, but she accepts that he is a professional who's already accepted the job and payment. It would ruin him professionally to cancel after that.
By not stopping Kincaid completely, Ivy respected Harry's wishes and Kincaid's professionalism but by making it a chest shot she preserved the chance for an intervention and save.
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Ivy knew all the statistical and medical data ever recorded about gunshot wounds, she knew Harry’s chance of survival increased with a heart shot rather than a head shot.
She also would have known that Uriel with his universal Intellectus knew it as soon as the decision was taken by Kincaid it would be a heart shot and not a head shot. She knew Kincaid would not abandon a contract from his past recorded history. She would also have known of Harry’s involvement with Uriel from information recorded somewhere, most likely from Monoc’s records which we are shown are computerised from Harry’s visit to HQ. We also know Kringle and Uriel lunch each year (I am betting on 6 December the feast day of the Saint Nicholas, and it was put in deliberately to cover this point) so it was likely discussed then (Kringle also has soul fire making it a topic of discussion) and later notarised by Kringle, coming to Ivy’s attention.
Uriel contacts Mab about the suicide attempt the limit to what he can do AND MAB ALLOWS THE SHOT TO OCCUR knowing that she, Demonreach and Uriel can save Harry, but teaching him the lessons he is going to need from Ghost Story and his recuperation in Cold Days.
Mab must have realised Harry would try this ploy at some point as he did the same to Lea. He therefore needed to work through it and Ivy gave him the option. Uriel then alerts Mab the hit is going to occur imminently on Thomas Boat, which happens to be within Demoreaches sphere of influence. She is therefore in the right place to save Harry.
It’s all rather simple really, we have been given all the necessary information.
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I think it was more about hope than anything else. Harry was her only friend, but she had to respect the possibility that he was correct in ordering his execution. Kincaid was the only parent she's known, but she accepts that he is a professional who's already accepted the job and payment. It would ruin him professionally to cancel after that.
By not stopping Kincaid completely, Ivy respected Harry's wishes and Kincaid's professionalism but by making it a chest shot she preserved the chance for an intervention and save.
I think part of the problem is there is the Archive, and then there is Ivy. Ivy is the very human vessel for the Archive, still a young teenager with the emotional needs of a teenager. Problem, because of her mother's suicide when she was a baby, she was never allowed to have that side of her develop properly, both Harry and oddly Kincaid tried to fill that void. Luccio warned Harry that messing with the human child, Ivy would have serious consequences for the Archive. My theory is the Archive unemotionally agreed with Uriel's plan understanding Harry's importance in the bigger picture. Ivy, reacted in a fairly normal human way, she was upset in the extreme with both her human mentors, it was out of her hands as far as what was to happen, though she did get Kincaid to agree to the heart verses the head shot. Then she made a decision in her hurt, she divorced herself from human emotion, and the two guys that treated her like an ordinary young girl, and became the Archive for real. It could have been worse, she could have gone "postal" as Luccio had warned, killed Kincaid and Harry leading to who knows what.. But she didn't, I think Ivy still loves both men as father figures with no desire to physically hurt either, though emotionally she was hurt. She had just enough emotional maturity to punish both men, no more contact as before, and retreated into her Archive persona.. I further think Luccio was wrong and Harry and Kincaid were right, to be a balanced Archive, Ivy needed to experience their affection and to give them affection in return, it is the human element.
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I think that Harry as part of the wider BAt will as a side effect free Ivy of being the Archive by removing the need for her.
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I think that Harry as part of the wider BAt will as a side effect free Ivy of being the Archive by removing the need for her.
I don't think that will ever happen because one of the functions of the Archive is to be the keeper of the history of mankind. That will always be needed.
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There was a question I'd had, the shot Kincaid took wasn't any past event written down or even discussed...
If a phone call travels over any portion of digitized network -- and that's almost inevitable, these days -- then it's "written" within the remit of the Archive. So Ivy had a copy of the phone-call.
Ivy is a teenager at this point, so of course she was eavesdropping on her ‘parent’. Occam’s razor.
<heh>
A very "human" notion, I like it! Thumbing your nose at the whole galaxy of spookyside wierdness-explanations.
But Jim has already confirmed that the Archive contains digital info, the entire Internet.
So, digitized phone lines, too.
Even so, it doesn't explain why she didn't insist that he didn't shoot Harry at all.
Having accepted the contract, Kincaid would never relent. Ivy cannot "insist."
Unless she is willing to permanently imprison him, engage in memory-erasing magic, or otherwise "remove him from play," Ivy can't stop the hit.
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Unless she is willing to permanently imprison him, engage in memory-erasing magic, or otherwise "remove him from play," Ivy can't stop the hit.
Yet she managed to change it from instant death to probable death, which fits into Uriel's plan.
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Yet she managed to change it from instant death to probable death, which fits into Uriel's plan.
Exactly.
She knew Kincaid's own code of honor would require him to place a "kill shot." Barring outside interference, Harry certainly (not just "probably") would die: Kincaid doesn't make that kind of mistake.
But that's why: Even so, it doesn't explain why she didn't insist that he didn't shoot Harry at all.
It remains unknown whether Ivy was party to the Mab/Odin/Uriel plot, or just inferred that they would situate themselves to be that "outside interference" needed for Harry to survive.
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It remains unknown whether Ivy was party to the Mab/Odin/Uriel plot, or just inferred that they would situate themselves to be that "outside interference" needed for Harry to survive.
Yes, that is unknown, as far as facts go, we do know for a fact that Mab and Uriel conspired, she confessed that much when Harry woke up. It isn't too far a stretch to include the Archive/Ivy in the plot. Here is why, while the shot to the heart and not the head would make death probable but not instant, that still depended on Harry landing in the water, where Mab just happened to be waiting to receive him. Had he fallen on the deck he would have swiftly bled out and died.
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The Uriel/Mab/Odin conspiracy is for the protection of humanity, the Archive is for the protection of human knowledge. The is a certain synchronicity in their purposes. If Harry is judged to be key for the survival of humanity then he is also key to the survival of human knowledge.
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The Uriel/Mab/Odin conspiracy is for the protection of humanity, the Archive is for the protection of human knowledge. The is a certain synchronicity in their purposes. If Harry is judged to be key for the survival of humanity then he is also key to the survival of human knowledge.
Yes, and to that point you'd have the Archive coldly assessing the situation and going along with the plan. However, the vessel of the Archive is a very human teenage girl who felt betrayed by the two humans she felt connected to and loved. In the end, human Ivy may have understood their motives, but she could not forgive them. Cutting herself off from them was a very human way of protecting herself emotionally. She also learned a hard lesson about the balance of human emotions verses the cold rational power of the Archive. Unlike her mother, she realized the only way to sanity for her was to divorce herself from her human emotions and become the Archive.
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... It isn't too far a stretch to include the Archive/Ivy in the plot. Here is why, while the shot to the heart and not the head would make death probable but not instant, that still depended on Harry landing in the water, where Mab just happened to be waiting to receive him. Had he fallen on the deck he would have swiftly bled out and died.
Yeah; Ivy as one of those conspirators has a really strong argument.
OTOH, it's only a circumstantial argument... Jim very well may (but also very well may not) plot it that way, write it that way.
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... the Archive is for the protection of human knowledge...
No, the Archive is there to be Commander in Chief of the Oblivion War.
The "Human Knowledge" thing is just a cover.
AFAIK, info seldom (if ever) flows back out of the Archive, to "protect humanity's knowledge."
Secrets of Damascene steel were lost for about 1000 years; Roman concrete for 2000 years. They were rediscovered through extensive human effort & research... not "found" in some "lost historical record" (i.e. released from the Archive).
Used to be, the Archive would Oracle stuff out to humanity; but not practical use-it-now info, it was oracular-foretelling shit that mostly people couldn't use, would only recognize after the fat... after the tragic warnings were overlooked, came to pass, and people said "if only we had realized..."
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Used to be, the Archive would Oracle stuff out to humanity; but not practical use-it-now info, it was oracular-foretelling shit that mostly people couldn't use, would only recognize after the fat... after the tragic warnings were overlooked, came to pass, and people said "if only we had realized..."
The Archive has no control over people who have their collective heads up their asses... ::)
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The Archive has no control over people who have their collective heads up their asses... ::)
While that is indubitably true, it's also true that Delphic Oracle, and many others, were just chock-full of exemplars wherein one or more of:
- the response to the prophecy is what triggered the terrible fate
- the prophecy was so obscure that the participants could only see the prophetic truth in hindsight
- the prophecy seemed so impossible, nobody saw how to react to it, to even try to prevent it
were true. And so it came to pass...
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While that is indubitably true, it's also true that Delphic Oracle, and many others, were just chock-full of exemplars wherein one or more of:
- the response to the prophecy is what triggered the terrible fate
- the prophecy was so obscure that the participants could only see the prophetic truth in hindsight
- the prophecy seemed so impossible, nobody saw how to react to it, to even try to prevent it
were true. And so it came to pass...
Nor does have any control on howpeople will react.. That's a matter for free will and choices, there are good choices and bad ones. The real problem comes from people failing to act at all because they think they are doomed, and so it comes to pass as predicted.
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Goodman Grey is a single unaffiliated individual, his Nemfection would not advance Nemesis cause one jot.
Goodman Grey is a single individual operating at a level where he interacts with Odin, and with Nicodemus Archleone.
Goodman Grey is one of about half a dozen beings with similar qualifications. You know what else there's similar rarity of? Faerie Queens. Senior members of the White Council. You know what's more-common? Fallen angels inhabiting Blackened Denarii.
Goodman Grey is so good at what he does (undercover ops & infiltration) that he flies entirely under the wardens' radar (Harry recognizes Hannah from Warden reports, but nothing about Grey).
Goodman Grey has repeatedly operated with Harry Dresden -- or in his close proximity -- in order to pay Rent.
Tell me again how Grey is of no use to Nemesis...?
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He isn’t in a position of continuing trust with anyone and those who hire him know it. That’s what Nemesis plays on Mab’s trust of Lea, Lara and Thomas trust of Justine.
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He isn’t in a position of continuing trust with anyone and those who hire him know it. That’s what Nemesis plays on Mab’s trust of Lea, Lara and Thomas trust of Justine.
How is he not in position of continuing trust? He is a mercenary, because he has to pay the rent.. However he hasn't shown so far that he hasn't done what he has been paid to do. While Nemesis does mess with trust as you say, that only works as long as it's infection or infestation remains unknown... Once it is known it is dealt with, i.e. Lea treated, she is trusted now.. Maeve couldn't be treated, killed.
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He isn’t in a position of continuing trust with anyone and those who hire him know it ...
Odin (for example) does trust him, though; trusts him to be good to his word, even at the risk of death (i.e. fighting multiple Denarians, in Hades' underworld vault). So do most of the people who hire him (or they wouldn't hire him).
He doesn't have a unique relationship with a single principle, but his trust reaches more-broadly than any other Nemfected(*) we know.
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(*) Not that we know he is/isn't Nemfected...