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Messages - Mira

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6496
DF Spoilers / Re: I think Murphy is going to get killed here is why
« on: May 29, 2019, 11:11:30 AM »
FUD=fear, uncertainty, and doom.On my reread of chapter one,  in no particular order, Mab has used the Lake ice to keep people out.  She's blocked access to Molly, she manipulated Harry's messages to his friends to Molly to sow distrust.  She has effectively kept him from hooking up to his allies as time dragged by.  Harry never meant to be there for all that time.  Thank Mab.  Murphy may or may not have known of the parasite.  Bob conveniently didn't know.  Thomas is Thomas.  As to why Murphy didn't council him, maybe she did and it wasn't sufficient.  Jim telegraphs this at the beginning.  Harry is worrying about trust and who he should trust.

That is the whole point!  Since both Thomas and Murphy managed to get through, they knew it wasn't Harry's doing.  She claims to trust him.. It isn't about who Harry trusts, it is about why the message never got to Butters..  Yes, once Mab fetches him from the island it is about who Harry trusts because he knows there are very few places where he can set out the facts and not be over heard.

6497
DF Spoilers / Re: I think Murphy is going to get killed here is why
« on: May 28, 2019, 09:56:56 PM »
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Putting it in the context of Skin Games. Anduriel is precisely the point.  Butters confronts Harry and Harry tells him that he can't tell him.

But that is a little late, Butters is already angry.... If he had been in the loop in the first place, i.e. clued in by Murphy who presumably is leading the fight against the Foman, he wouldn't have had to confront him nor would he have a reason to be afraid of him..  Even if Harry cannot tell him the exact reason, Butters would understand that it is a good one...   

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So Butter's doesn't keep silent. And Harry stonewalls him. There is about two pages of dialog that covers most of the points raised here prior to the part I quote.   

Bob is FUD on the hoof.  Jim uses him both as a talking head and as an all around confuser
You are missing the whole point...  If things had been explained to Butters a couple of months or so before the big chase in Skin Game, the chase wouldn't have happened in the first place because if Butters knew there was a good reason for Harry to be away, even if he couldn't tell him at that point in Skin Game what it was, no chase, no FUD moment, end of story....
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I think what's being said here (and certainly what I'm saying) is that Butters should/would have said something before Skin Game.
Exactly,  his anger and fear has been building up way before the chase in Skin Game...  Murphy and Thomas both know there is a good reason for Harry to be staying on the island..  If Murphy was playing leader of their defense group, no reason to think she wasn't, she was in Ghost Story, as a good leader she should have been able to read Butters... Then she should have took him to one side and even if she couldn't tell him exactly why Harry was away, say that there was a very good reason that will be explained later... Or who knows Butters may even have come to her...  Something is missing in this picture,  understood Butters is very upset about those kids, however he has always been the most sensible of men, thus he may not like Harry not being there, but at the same time understand it isn't really Harry's choice... 

6498
DF Spoilers / Re: I think Murphy is going to get killed here is why
« on: May 28, 2019, 06:06:36 PM »
Harry wouldn't tell his left hand what his right hand was doing unless he just had to.  The has been an ongoing theme. If your not doing something because you have a problem, and people could use that information, you don't broadcast it.  Better to leave them guessing.  Butter's isn't owed anything. 

Butter's suffers from pedestal disease.  He put Harry up on one and Harry isn't living up to Butter's expectations.  But, by the time of Skin Game Harry can't explain to Butters the reasons for the things that are happening.  Anduriel  is listening.Thomas knew.  Don't know about Murphy.

But I doubt that Butters would have kept silent!  That is the point, especially with young kids being
kidnapped left right and center...  At the very least he would have bitched to Murphy about it.  I don't think Butters had Harry on a pedestal so much as he had always been understanding..  It is out of character for Butters to act as he did, not asking questions first as to why, just being angry.   I think Bob may have had something to do with it...  He has a real hate/fear thing going on with Mab, so would suspect the worst for Harry and put some ideas into Butters' head... I doubt that fear that Andriel was listening was a factor, because the problem wasn't with the Fallen, it was with the Foman ..   The degree of the anger Butters displays isn't rational unless he is being fed the wrong information as to why Harry is gone, this could have come from Bob...   I doubt he would have kept his mouth shut about it, I just wonder why neither Murphy nor Thomas set him straight.

6499
DF Spoilers / Re: I think Murphy is going to get killed here is why
« on: May 28, 2019, 10:58:40 AM »


For me the huge unanswered question is did Murphy or Thomas ask Harry why he won't leave the island?   We know they visited him, why wasn't there a come to Jesus moment when they confronted him with a "look people are dying left and right we need you!"   If there was, did Harry answer them
truthfully?  He could have answered one of three ways, 1] "this is the only place where the pain in my head won't kill me." 2] "Mab will kill me if I leave, she has me watched..." 3] " The defenses of the island are in a neglected state, if I leave now, worse than the Fomen will escape.."  The one thing I doubt he'd say would be he didn't give a crap about what was happening back in Chicago...

My other question is why neither never defended his reasons for not being there to Butters?  Butters is a just and intelligent man, if he knew the above reasons he may get frustrated because he felt they were powerless, but he wouldn't have blamed Harry like he did.

We all know Murphy by now and it is unlikely that if she felt Harry was really needed she wouldn't have pinned him to the wall until she got an answer as to why he wasn't coming to their aid... So
here is an explanation most will not like...  She may feel that they ran things pretty well when they thought Harry was dead.. May even have liked the power that brought, the importance, after no longer being a police officer, she didn't want to play second fiddle to Harry...  Or for all her talk of trust, still a part of her never fully trusted Harry after he became Knight.   Otherwise I cannot account for the attitude of Butters towards Harry..   There is a missing part to this puzzle...

6500
DF Spoilers / Re: I think Murphy is going to get killed here is why
« on: May 27, 2019, 01:47:27 PM »
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While Michael & Harry have undoubtedly gotten closer (especially after SG), also remember how uncomfortable Michael is around some of Harry’s magical abilities (granted it is less so in SG than GP). My larger point here is just that Michael is more of a black/ white person while Harry is shades of gray. Therefore there will always be parts of Harry that Michael will judge (not always a bad thing). Also, a person can have 2 best friends, especially if he will be sleeping with one of them (probably needs 2 in that case). Also Murphy is on the path to becoming Harry’s girlfriend, so it’s a different kind of friendship.


Michael has absolute trust in Harry as a good man...  We know how Harry feels about Murphy, and supposedly how she feels about him... However her feelings may be complicated by what has happened to her in the last book..  Do not underestimate that, it has nothing to do with her feelings for Harry, it is about her dealing with her own inner turmoil and perhaps questioning of her own judgement.  That will affect her relationship with Harry. 

6501
DF Spoilers / Re: I think Murphy is going to get killed here is why
« on: May 26, 2019, 11:16:35 AM »
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While Michael is Harry’s best friend, that designation has waned since the whole deal with Lash - instead Harry grew closer to Murphy in the meanwhile. Given his religious beliefs, Michael is also somewhat limited in that capacity - Harry constantly has to watch his cursing around Michael & mentions how uncomfortable Michael was with certain aspects of his relationship with Susan in GP. At some level, Harry wants to impress Michael & be worthy of being his friend because of what a thoroughly good man Michael is - Harry’s relationship with Murphy is on more equal footing.

All of that is true, however since Maggie came on the scene I believe they naturally will get closer again.  Michael's place was her home up until now, Harry may turn to both him and Charity for child care advice.  Though what happened to Molly may put a crimp in the relationship.

6502
DF Spoilers / Re: I think Murphy is going to get killed here is why
« on: May 25, 2019, 08:59:45 PM »
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    She starts off becoming the head of the Chicago defense league (combining Harry’s allies with logistical support from the Paranet, Marcone & Lara Raith). This might eventually lead to her creating a more national level defense league in the war that is to come.
    Murphy gets a power up that enables her to keep helping Harry as he fights bigger & nastier foes. While there is talk of her becoming a Valkyrie or something, I don’t see it - she is Christian & doesn’t seem to believe in the Norse pantheon. When Harry sees Murphy with his Sight, she has the soul of a warrior angel - perhaps this is foreshadowing that she will eventually get killed & become an angel?

Isn't there a WOJ that Murphy will never receive a power up?  If not it has been said so often it is hard to think that she will.  Also it will change her if it happens, then what?

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I think Murphy will be the link that along with Maggie Jr. helps Harry keep his humanity despite the darker nature of the WK mantle. Not only that, she is Harry’s best friend & moral support system. For these reasons, I think it will be important for Murphy to continue to have a role in the series.

But little Maggie appears to be a wizard, possibly a strong one in her own right... Dad's job is seems will be to keep her from going dark..   Murphy is Harry's friend and perhaps future love interest, but Michael is his best friend, I believe he has stated that in one of the books..  Butters is also an understanding friend, so Murphy isn't the only vanilla anchor to humanity for Harry..

What is interesting by the nature of both Murphy threads both her going forward and she is going to get killed is almost every post is about what she needs to do to stay meaningful not just to Harry but the series... That in my opinion is a danger signal in of itself....  Because keeping her in the series, "just because," isn't a good enough reason...

6503
DF Spoilers / Re: I think Murphy is going to get killed here is why
« on: May 24, 2019, 04:36:21 PM »
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According to Murphy, her second husband wanted her to stay at home because he can't handle Murphy having a better career in the police force. From what he did in book 6 by marrying Murphy's sister and Mama Murphy's reaction, what Murphy say has quite some credibility.

Perhaps, but that hints at more complex problems under the surface...  Didn't he go on to join the F.B.I? 

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From what I see, her 2 previous marriges fail because both of her exs is not strong enough to handle her. Murphy is too compotent, and becoming the spouse of such a woman is never easy for your average man. The same reason why a successful and rich career woman tends to have a hard time finding a husband in real life. The problem is not on the woman, it is on the man. It is easy for a strong man to marry a weak woman, but vice versa?

Or perhaps has bad taste in men?  Usually the problems are not quite that one sided.  Quite often if the pair are on an equal footing things fall apart because both are so busy there is no time for the marriage...  Weak men marry strong women all the time for various reasons..  It also depends on how you define what strong or weak mean in either sex, it isn't just about who had the best career or makes the most money, one may want to be controlling, another may like being controlled...


6504
DF Spoilers / Re: I think Murphy is going to get killed here is why
« on: May 23, 2019, 07:56:10 PM »
I am pretty sure that a long life with loved ones is what Murphy wants for herself -- and deserves -- and anything else would be a tragic outcome.

Very much as Michael -- cane & all -- is now getting his own "happily ever after" with HIS loved ones.

I agree that it looks unlikely to be what Murphy gets...
 


Don't be so sure, that is one reason why her first marriage failed,  Murphy isn't cut out for domestication.   

6505
DF Spoilers / Re: I think Murphy is going to get killed here is why
« on: May 23, 2019, 06:14:56 AM »
Karen  is going to be regulated to being a side character. she is eventually is going to Mary Dresden and take on the role of step mother to Maggie.  this is not going to mean she is written out of the story it just means she will no longer be seeking to be the one who takes on the big bad monster. I am sure she will still have times that she does bad assery and kick some supernatural butt. now it will be her avoiding it but every once in a while being forced into kicking butt in defense of loved ones.

I think that would be a very sad ending for her, better she go out in a blaze of glory.

6506
DF Spoilers / Re: Who is on the Grey Council?
« on: May 23, 2019, 06:09:45 AM »


Somehow I doubt that Ancient Mai is on the Council,  just a gut feeling about her.

6507
DF Spoilers / Re: Role of Murphy going forward
« on: May 21, 2019, 02:36:46 PM »
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Why be confuse on where her path may lead? End of skin game has show us exactly where her path may lead. Well, at least in regards to her psycological and emotional health the signs are all good and clear. If we are talking about this issue at the end of book 13 or end of book 14, then yes, I must agree with you that Murphy is still in a bad place. End of skin game however, put an end to this issue. Unless future books show otherwise, I see no reason to assume negatively about Murphy's psycological condition.

Are they?   I don't think we can assume anything,  last time we saw her she was in a hospital bed on pain meds..  Yes, Harry kissed her and gave her a small fortune in  diamonds, so yeah, at that moment she was in a happy place... But we've heard nothing one way or the other since then...

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Her character always drove me nuts until I realized that. Her antagonistic relationship with Harry in Storm Front makes sense. It doesn't in Fool Moon, at all. After that, Murphy's pretty level for a while, but every time we see Murphy playing politics, she's making the most aggressive play that's guaranteed to piss people off who she might need in the future. Then there's her plot arc of trusting and not trusting Harry in Ghost Story/Cold Days/Skin Game. (The part of that arc that really annoy's me is Butters doing the same thing). It's rational in Ghost Story, at first. Then it's not but still understandable. Her hesitance to trust Harry in Cold Days makes sense, too. Her approach is still overly aggressive, as always. And then in Skin Game, she just completely trusts Harry even though he is being super secretive and working with a guy the Devil keeps at arms length. For reasons?

Did she?   Like KurtinStGeorge I won't go down that rabbit hole again... Suffice it to say that her actions got a Holy Sword broken that day..   To quote Measter Aemon, "love is the death of duty.."
Bad for a man of the Night's Watch, and for a career policewomen as well, she might be retired or fired from the force but she still is one, in her heart..  It could have ramifications later on... Just saying..

6508
Site Suggestions & Support / Re: Maybe it's just me...
« on: May 18, 2019, 08:09:01 PM »


I saw the "notify" and clicked it, not sure why it was blocked because I never unclicked it, I just stopped getting notifications and thought something had changed... We will see if it works..  Thanks for the help guys.

6509
DF Spoilers / Re: Role of Murphy going forward
« on: May 18, 2019, 11:14:03 AM »
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"Christ, Harry," Murphy said quietly. "No one just starts giggling and wearing black and signs up to become a villainous monster. How the hell do you think it happens?" She shook her head, her eyes pained. "It happens to people. Just people. They make questionable choices, for what might be very good reasons. They make choice after choice, and none of them is slaughtering roomfuls of saints, or murdering hundreds of baby seals, or rubber-room irrational. But it adds up. And then one day they look around and realize that they're so far over the line that they can't remember where it was."

I really wondered when I read that if Murphy wasn't referring to herself in the part I highlighted.  She was in a pretty dark place emotionally in Ghost Story.  We know she terminated two sorcerers with extreme prejudice before ghost Harry showed up in that book.  I think there is more to Murphy's story that we haven't heard yet, and before we do it's difficult to know where her path may lead.

It isn't new for her, the aftermath after Nightmare got into her head was she turned to the bottle.  Understandable maybe, but she wouldn't let anyone help her that time either...  Murphy may seem
very tough, but there is a brittle component to her personality, I repeat it wasn't just her body that Nic damaged...

6510
DF Spoilers / Re: Role of Murphy going forward
« on: May 16, 2019, 06:18:49 AM »
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I don't have an issue with her character transition from books 13 to 15, but I think there are major problems with her character transition from books 13 to 14. In book 13, she comes off as like the worst of her Fool Moon self, only without the law to rein her in. She also spends the whole book in denial about Harry's death, to the point where her entire character arc in that book is accepting that Harry's really dead. And then, in book 14 she goes from that to "oh, of course explosions mean Harry" (even though he's dead, and she spent the entire last book learning to accept that, and we have no reason to believe she has any information to the contrary) and being perfectly reasonable and accepting about everything (except for the scene where she blatantly and viciously emotionally manipulates Harry, but I accept that Jim didn't mean it to come off that way) and being fine with Harry explicitly keeping secrets? And all of this, without us ever seeing the transition stage? No, just no. The transition from books 12-13 worked. The transition from books 14-15 worked. The transition from books 13-15 worked. The transition from books 13-14...either we missed 1-3 books worth of character development from Murphy, or she's been gotten to badly.

Truth is, until we see how it goes in Peace Talks we haven't a clue.  Murphy has taken two severe blows, one to her body and another to her mind at the hands of Nic..  Both are recoverable..  Her body most likely will recover pretty well, she is healthy and in good condition..  True, she may never be 100%, but she can learn to deal with that..  Her mind and confidence might be another matter or rather a more difficult matter to calculate..  She was very confident of herself and how she felt about things going into her fight with Nic, first he goaded her into breaking a Holy Sword, then he proceeded to take her apart physically all the while whispering in her ear all kinds of things.. Now I know it turned out okay in the end..  She loves Harry and vice versa last we saw, and the Holy Sword got remade again and a new Knight named..  However the last time we saw Murphy she still was in her hospital bed and on pain meds....  She has rolled with a lot of bunches it is true, but has she taken one too many?  Don't think we will know until she is up and around again..  So Murphy going forward?  Anyone's guess.

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