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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Aminar on February 01, 2012, 04:45:18 AM
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I'm trying a route I think is new on summoning.
Required Powers
Channeling(Control)
Ritual(Summoning and Binding)
Demense(Never-Never Pocket to hold creatures(limiting this for wizards.)
Summoned creature guidelines.
Summoned creatures cost Summon points. 1 Enchanted item slot = 1 summon point.
1 point = 1 refresh.
1 point = Your lore in skills.
The creatures conviction score must be 1/2 the creatures refresh rounded down.
Examples.
Binder goon.
4 skill points
2 Guns
1 Endurance
1 Athletics.
8 with starting powers.
My Shadow Imp Pokemon.
5 refresh
Inhuman Speed-2, Claws, Cloak of Shadows, Diminutive Size
12 skill points 4 Athletics, 3 Fists, 2 Conviction, 1 stealth, 1 burglary, 1 alertness
Total cost 8 slots.
I can see this escalating with some advancement. Especially with a 5 lore.
However, I have to give the creature orders, which is a channeled spell.
Attack, Defend, Summon, Unsummon, Search. All of those orders cause 1 mental stress(Hence option 1 being really easy to hide while still combat effective.) I think this seems fairly balanced.
Thoughts.
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It doesn't raise any immediate alarm bells. But I need to take a closer look.
Also, I post this link whenever I get the chance (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,24744.msg1084269.html#msg1084269).
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Yeah. You sent me that before. The issue being that it doesn't quite carry they feel I wanted(That being simplicity.) Your rules work very well for summoning bigger things. My guy would require a 14 strength ritual(with perfect command and full aspects)(which is easy peasy...) But Give me a week or 3 to work with and I have an army of the little guys. That's not where I'm going with this character. He's supposed to feel a whole lot more like a Pokemon trainer.
(That said, we were going with those until I came up with this today. It's easier for the DM and lets me play around.)
Next step is to scrap the little guy for a 20 skill point 7 refresh with modular powers 5. That will be hell on wheels to have fun with.
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This is actually a very complex system, in my opinion. But we might be using different definitions of complexity.
Also, a 14-shift ritual is not easy.
Anyway! Now for my thoughts.
This is reminds me of the pet and ally rules that we were working on before the board crash. More than anything else, it represents controlling multiple characters.
I think there are too many prerequisites. Why would you need Demesne?
Also, I don't like the magical control rules. Why are they here? They seem pointless.
Also, the skill cap of the conjured creature should matter. It's important.
Also, I don't think there's any good reason to mandate the Conviction skill of the summoned creature.
And I don't really like having this be separate from the rules that you'd use for mundane minions and for summoning creatures with a ritual. It's inelegant.
So, yeah. The more I look the less I like.
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I'm trying to balance it with the magic items rules. We all know Thaumaturgy can be easily imbalanced. Especially in games with large time jumps(like the one I'll be in), so I'm working off another system, the slightly less broken enchanted items. Now, a summoned creature doesn't have a limited number of uses, so I had to balance that. Having control spells does that easily, and makes it so a summoner needs to use all the mage skills(Lore, Discipline, and Conviction.) making them feel more magey.
The conviction score is based around the idea that summoning and controlling somethings difficulty is completely based around its conviction score. If I allow itty bitty conviction scores then the creatures are simple to summon and simple to control. That strikes me as exploitable. I don't want my character summoning trolls as minions. This is supposed to represent somebody who's whole deal is summoning things, while staying balanced. Trolls are unbalanced when they can be acquired easily. This system limits that by placing a cost.
Demense is for flavor. And has some fun tagalongs anyway. There has to be a place to hold the things. Demense represents that.
Long term I can actually see the character becoming less useful, as he can only control so much at a given time and summons can never reasonably top 8 or 9 refresh. I'm working on that... What it comes down to though is that this feels balanced in a way the other rules don't and making a creature is really easy(for anybody that can manage character creation). Anything from the book, down to pixies is nigh impossible, but flavorwise this feels right.
This does cover skill cap. The creature has to follow the pyramid the same way a PC does. Thus if I spend 4 slots to get 16 skill points(with my 4 lore) I can get a 5, a 4, a 3, a 2, and a 1. However, that creature can really only be used for one thing-A huge limitation. I'd have to have 21 skill points to hit +6 and once again, the summon is still vastly limited. I could always say the creatures skill cap is the highest level skill it's controller possesses to, stopping it at +5. That wouldn't be outside the realm of reason.
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Also, a 14-shift ritual is not easy.
Unless you've house ruled Declarations, you can hit 14 shifts with Lore 2 and three exchanges of preparation. (A Declaration and a Maneuver in each exchange.) That's pretty easy to me.
@Aminar - some questions for you:
- It sounds like the summoner has to summon these ahead of time using item slots / summon points, is that correct? If so, does it cost an action to bring to the summoner's presence?
- Also, you mention using Channeling to control the demon. Does this cost mental stress? Is it resisted? By what? (I'm guessing this is why you specified Conviction, but it is a guess.) How general / specific is the control? i.e. Does the caster use all his actions controlling one demon or does he give one order then go to town on his own?
- Are the demons / summoned beings limited in power by Lore as foci are?
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@UmbraLux: You cannot maneuver outside of combat. Also, a ritual with 12 complexity (Mind Fog) is specifically called out as powerful and complex in YS.
@Aminar: I seriously don't think that enchanted items are more balanced than Thaumaturgy.
You can store creatures anywhere, a Demesne is not required. By making it a prerequisite you limit the types of character that can use this massively for no real reason.
I don't see why you care what Conviction score summons have under your system. After all, your system does not use the summonee's Conviction for anything.
A skill cap should be implemented. A character with Epic Contacts is possible for 28 skill points, which is entirely realistic. And a character with Epic Contacts will also have 6 other skills, 2 of which will be above the skill cap of a Feet In The Water character. So he could easily be Fantastically wealthy and Superbly strong. He'd hardly only be good at one thing.
Each skill point gives +1 to appropriate rolls. So a skill point invested in a skill you will use often (your apex skill) is better than a skill point invested in a skill you use rarely (some random Average skill). As such, it's generally optimal to pump as many points as possible into your main area of focus.
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@UmbraLux: You cannot maneuver outside of combat. Also, a ritual with 12 complexity (Mind Fog) is specifically called out as powerful and complex in YS.
@Aminar: I seriously don't think that enchanted items are more balanced than Thaumaturgy.
You can store creatures anywhere, a Demesne is not required. By making it a prerequisite you limit the types of character that can use this massively for no real reason.
I don't see why you care what Conviction score summons have under your system. After all, your system does not use the summonee's Conviction for anything.
A skill cap should be implemented. A character with Epic Contacts is possible for 28 skill points, which is entirely realistic. And a character with Epic Contacts will also have 6 other skills, 2 of which will be above the skill cap of a Feet In The Water character. So he could easily be Fantastically wealthy and Superbly strong. He'd hardly only be good at one thing.
Each skill point gives +1 to appropriate rolls. So a skill point invested in a skill you will use often (your apex skill) is better than a skill point invested in a skill you use rarely (some random Average skill). As such, it's generally optimal to pump as many points as possible into your main area of focus.
Thaumaturgy.
At the end of the session ask every party member to take a mild consequence. 14 shifts of power. Right there. Real easy.(in the campaign this is for.)
If I spent 7 of my item points to get a winter fey that knows Mab kudos to me. I doubt she'll help me out anyway. I can do roughly the same with enchanted items. From there, just because I have a fantastically strong and wealthy summon doesn't mean I can use those skills.
Or a 20some point ritual, which as listed just a bit ago, is really really easy.
Granted what you just listed is Queen Mab's favorite Lephracaun and in order to originally obtain that I probably pissed somebody off. What I love about the Dresden system is how much the balance is based off the world at large.(And that sounds like a fun thing to have in a game.)
That said, I'm not seeing gaining a creature like that as so easy. Anything with that high of contacts would require a pretty high refresh cost to justify and have some related aspects to boot.(As in character creation all of this requires the DM"s knowledge and agreement on what is balanced within their game.
Again The Demense is flavor and balance. It doesn't limit who can use it by any means.(It stretches the ingame definition of Demense, but that's on purpose. It's meant to be a subtype of wizard, a focused practitioner, that has been trained in this specific art. Binder is the ingame example. This mimics almost exactly how he works, but he doesn't seem to need channeling, but I feel like this is more... Interesting to play. I don't see where the limitation in type of character is.
The conviction score is the required result on a control spell in this system, If my creature has conviction 3 I need a discipline roll of 3 or higher to give it a command. It's also the benchmark in game summoning is based around, and a built in redundancy so that the creatures have to have skills to have refresh.
I should have explained that better in the initial post.
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@UmbraLux: You cannot maneuver outside of combat. Also, a ritual with 12 complexity (Mind Fog) is specifically called out as powerful and complex in YS.
Sometimes I think you play a very different game than I do. ;) In any case I haven't seen anything explicitly limiting maneuvers to combat, can you point that out? Also the example under Challenges on YS324 shows use of a maneuver used to help start a car.
But even if you limit it purely to declarations, casting a 14 shift spell is just slower* not more difficult.
*May not even be slower. Not real sure there's a limit on the number of free actions / declarations you can make in an exchange.
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Am I remembering incorrectly that the base thaum complexity you can cast without research is lore + complexity focus bonus? It has been a while since I read the section, but iirc that would seem to be a somewhat limiting factor.
Obviously you could do your research ahead of time, but you wouldn't be immediately adaptable to every situation that cropped up unless you put in some major research time in a lore library with a high enough rank to actually have the info you are looking for.
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That's where declarations, consequences, and the like come in. Hitting 30-40 is hard. Anything less is slow.
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If that is in response to my question then I don't understand your answer. Perhaps i misunderstood your phrasing but you seem to imply my vague memory was correct. If the answer to my question is yes then you would still be capped at lore+complexity focus.
If the max complexity without research is your level + complexity focus bonus, then how does a declaration help you?
Obviously they help when you are actually casting the spell, but how do they impact whether or not you know the ritual in the first place?
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Thaumaturgy power is a combination of Lore, consequences, skipping scenes, and aspects. By default, aspects either already exist and require a fate point or are set up with declarations. Since declarations are statements of fact or knowledge they don't typically require time.
I prefer to allow maneuvers and assessments as well. It's still aspect creation / discovery and makes it easier for the whole group to participate in the scene. (Also, I haven't seen anything in the rules which would prevent doing so.)
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If the max complexity without research is your level + complexity focus bonus, then how does a declaration help you?
It's not "max complexity without research" so much as "max complexity without prep work".
You can declare something that adds to the prep work. It can be Lore: I know the colour Green is the right symbolic one for this spell. It can be something like Resources: I bought the right herbs for the ritual. Anything like that can help.
The best example of prep work in the books is in Proven Guilty. Near the beginning of the book, Harry takes several scenes to set up a spell - he mediates, showers, lights candles, etc, then the phone rings before he can cast it and everything is lost. Later he tries the same spell, but he doesn't have time for the prep work so he spends FATE points on aspects and takes a consequence.
I hope this helps!
Richard
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Yes, thank you. That does clear up my misunderstanding. The last two responses now make a lot more sense.
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Sorry Polk. I was using my tablet and in a hurry.
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It's no problem at all. I appreciate you trying to quickly respond to the question I posed.
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This attitude that says that 20+ shifts of thaumaturgy is easy is terrible. Every piece of fluff that we have indicates that it isn't supposed to be that way. Victor Sells' heart-explodey spell is supposed to be extremely powerful and impressive. And the vast majority of our canonical example rituals are weaker than 10 shifts.
And not only does the fluff say that, it's also much more sensible balance-wise if Thaumaturgy isn't easy. Because Thaumaturgy duplicates skill rolls. Skills rolls generally cap out at 8ish. Thaumaturgy shouldn't smash that barrier so trivially.
An ally with high skills isn't quite as good as having high skills yourself, but it's still damn good. Unless I really don't understand your control mechanics.
By these rules, you do not need a high refresh level to justify high skills. If you want that to be the case, you need to make it the case.
My belief that maneuvers can only be used in conflicts was arrived at thusly:
-I was talking to someone (I think it was Belial666) about a skill roll, and he said that it would be easy because he could just maneuver+tag to hit the difficulty. Which seemed wrong to me, given that we have those spiffy time charts that you're supposed to use for skill rolls. If a ten-second maneuver could do the same thing as spending two more time increments, then something seemed very wrong.
-So I went to the rulebook and looked up the rules for maneuvers. They were in the conflict and spellcasting sections, as a possible use of magic and as one of the basic actions in a conflict. Outside of those sections, they simply were not mentioned. Which led me to the conclusion that you cannot maneuver outside of a conflict, except with the abstracted maneuver-analogues provided by magic. Which means that aspects created outside of conflict are made through Declarations, not maneuvers.
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This attitude that says that 20+ shifts of thaumaturgy is easy is terrible. Every piece of fluff that we have indicates that it isn't supposed to be that way.
It's got nothing to do with "attitude". The game mechanics are easy. If you want them to be difficult, house rule them! But don't call easy mechanics difficult 'because they should be'...not when logical analysis says differently.
Victor Sells' heart-explodey spell is supposed to be extremely powerful and impressive. And the vast majority of our canonical example rituals are weaker than 10 shifts.
The heart exploding spell, and any take-out spell, starts in the mid twenties or thirties. It's not close to a sure thing until forty or so. Victor's spell was something Harry expected would blast through threshold, wards, and a circle while still killing him. The book puts it at 36 shifts, I'd say it needed to be higher to ensure penetration of any wards & circles.
Perhaps more to the point, Victor didn't exactly make intelligent use of his power. In the OW comments, Harry states this is why he was able to take him.
And not only does the fluff say that, it's also much more sensible balance-wise if Thaumaturgy isn't easy. Because Thaumaturgy duplicates skill rolls. Skills rolls generally cap out at 8ish. Thaumaturgy shouldn't smash that barrier so trivially.
I agree...which doesn't change how it's actually written.
An ally with high skills isn't quite as good as having high skills yourself, but it's still damn good. Unless I really don't understand your control mechanics.
By these rules, you do not need a high refresh level to justify high skills. If you want that to be the case, you need to make it the case.
I still think an extra action is worth a lot...otherwise I agree.
My belief that maneuvers can only be used in conflicts was arrived at thusly:
-I was talking to someone (I think it was Belial666) about a skill roll, and he said that it would be easy because he could just maneuver+tag to hit the difficulty. Which seemed wrong to me, given that we have those spiffy time charts that you're supposed to use for skill rolls. If a ten-second maneuver could do the same thing as spending two more time increments, then something seemed very wrong.
This is a feeling, not a reason.
-So I went to the rulebook and looked up the rules for maneuvers. They were in the conflict and spellcasting sections, as a possible use of magic and as one of the basic actions in a conflict. Outside of those sections, they simply were not mentioned. Which led me to the conclusion that you cannot maneuver outside of a conflict, except with the abstracted maneuver-analogues provided by magic. Which means that aspects created outside of conflict are made through Declarations, not maneuvers.
Maneuvers are mentioned on a variety of pages. A few worth mentioning in relation to non-combat maneuvers: the Command trapping of Presence allows coordination of tasks; Craftsmanship allows maneuvers against structures via Demolitions; Contests (YS193) may be used as an "isolated maneuver action"; the section on maneuvers in the Conflict chapter also mentions Navel Gazing Maneuvers and uses lock picking as one example; YS208 explicitly states maneuvers can be used to coordinate actions outside of combat; not sure if you consider soulgazes a conflict but you can use maneuvers there; minor effects (YS259) are "usually assumed to be within the scope of evocation maneuvers"; thaumaturgy appears capable of maneuvers outside of combat; YS299 suggests using maneuver spells for researching a scene; and Bob's love potion is a maneuver, does it count as a conflict? There are more but I'm tired of cataloging them. Outside of the book, one author states assessment, declaration, and maneuvering are all the same action - aspect creation / discovery (http://www.faterpg.com/2011/the-grand-unified-theory-of-maneuvers/).
But toss all those out for a minute and consider the effects of only allowing declarations in thaumaturgy spells. Doing so presumably excludes everyone but the caster from the scene (which I find boring) but otherwise doesn't make the spell much more difficult. Declarations and maneuvers are just aspect creation.
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An extra action is very powerful. That's why I have 5 refresh worth of prereqs, and a variety of important skills/ needing to issue commands via a spell. I don't want this to be overpowered, I really want it underpowered.
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Prereqs aren't really the best way to make something weaker. After all, Evocation and Thaumaturgy are well worth their costs even when they aren't being used as prerequisites. All prereqs do is restrict the type of character that can access your power.
Given that the existing rules for Thaumaturgy are like 60% handwavium, I don't feel as though I contradict anything when I say that 12 shifts is quite a lot.
Having everyone take a consequence, even a mild, isn't insignificant.
I fear I may have given a false impression about my opinion on maneuvers, UmbraLux. You can use a maneuver to help yourself pick a lock. But only in a conflict or, maybe, in another situation where time is measured in rounds. That time investment is crucial to the concept of a maneuver, in my view.
Some powers and stunts and things (notably magic) might let you perform maneuvers in other situations, but that is an exception. (I kinda pointed this out in my previous post).
If you look up "maneuvers" in YS's excellent index, you'll notice that the only reference is to the section on conflicts.
Declarations are harder than maneuvers because Declarations have to be interesting and maneuvers don't. You can maneuver to get CAREFUL AIM. But that's a weak-ass Declaration.
And yes, most of my story was just a story. I wasn't really trying to convince so much as explain.
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But a wizard or sorcerer using this has a point less refresh and far less enchanted items/foci which seems to even them out fairly well.
And a minor consequence at the end of a session means absolutely nothing. Basic declaratoions may take creativity, but most RPers have enough of that to use just about every skill once. Thaumaturgy is silly easy, up to a fairly high point, and boring for most of the party to boot. Hence the work to avoid it as a character concept.
Now, how should I go about leaving more than one summon as an option while allowing for swarms? Current plan is lore in individual types and the above limit is what you can have on the field. I'm also instituting that their skills are capped at the players is highest because it doesn't limit how I want to use the thing.
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I fear I may have given a false impression about my opinion on maneuvers, UmbraLux. You can use a maneuver to help yourself pick a lock. But only in a conflict or, maybe, in another situation where time is measured in rounds. That time investment is crucial to the concept of a maneuver, in my view.
The problem with using time limits as a requirement for maneuvers is two-fold - you can add time limits to any arbitrary set of actions and second, time may well not matter for some conflicts (a long running forum debate comes to mind :) ).
Some powers and stunts and things (notably magic) might let you perform maneuvers in other situations, but that is an exception. (I kinda pointed this out in my previous post).
If you look up "maneuvers" in YS's excellent index, you'll notice that the only reference is to the section on conflicts.
There are a lot of exceptions then...the list I started in my previous post isn't complete.
Declarations are harder than maneuvers because Declarations have to be interesting and maneuvers don't. You can maneuver to get CAREFUL AIM. But that's a weak-ass Declaration.
This is an arbitrary difficulty at best. That said, I tend to apply a slightly stricter requirement to all temporary aspects, however they're created - I want them to be both interesting and relevant to the situation / scene. But, unless I start saying "Declaration X will require <an arbitrarily high number of> shifts for success this time." nothing is actually more difficult. I'll tack a 'boring' or 'repetitious' point on to the shifts required if need be but I won't tack on arbitrary 'I want this action to fail (or be really difficult)' points.
A side note regarding "Careful Aim" - I like any aspect which gives me the potential for compels / NPC invokes and "Careful Aim" does...as long as you had them pick out a specific target to aim at (which I would). "Carefully Aiming at Joe" is interesting and relevant. It can also be turned against the PC by Joe's allies. :)
And yes, most of my story was just a story. I wasn't really trying to convince so much as explain.
Ah, I misunderstood. :-[
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Perhaps the most telling part of the text is on YS208 under the Teamwork heading. It explicitly states maneuvers should be used, even outside of combat, to coordinate actions - to work as a team on a single skill / action.
When it comes to thaumaturgy in particular, I'd rather have the group working on it as a team than exclude most of the group to have a scene with one individual. Individual scenes pop up enough when people go their own way, no need to add more. Admittedly, that's a long standing gripe of mine. I ran NPC deckers in Shadowrun to avoid something similar.
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A long-running forum debate is totally measured in rounds. See, for each post you make I make one as well. We can maneuver or block or attack. Or we can offer a concession, which is what I'll do here.
I feel like I've stated my case reasonably well. I've given textual evidence and a rationale indicating why this interpretation is desirable. To your credit, you've done the same. Beyond this point I don't think there's much to say.
So, yeah. I'm done with this argument for now.
But there's one thing I need to say on a tangentially related point.
Aminar, if you think Thaumaturgy is broken, you should fix it. Creating subsystems to avoid using one of the game's most important mechanics is a losing game.
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Not to not use it. To play a character I want to play without forcing the party into long Thaumaturgical castings. They will not enjoy it. It isn't a losing game, not if it comes out balanced. I've been given a little good advice here, and I've taken it. The rest is more a criticism of the system that isn't directly related. If anybody finds any other balance problems I would love to hear them, but all in all I'm pretty happy with the system.
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Thaumaturgy is pretty important. If you think it's broken, than that's going to present a problem, right? No number of subsystems is going to address that problem. It seems only sensible to go to the source.
Anyway, it still makes no sense to me that you need Demesne for this. Demesne is inappropriate for most wizards, but most wizards should be able to summon.
And trust me, skill caps matter. A guy with Epic Weapons and a +2 stress with a sword stunt costs 8 stunts with Great Lore and he could probably take on three Red Court vamps at once without taking a consequence.
And he wouldn't have to have any Conviction skill at all according to your rules.
You really should make Conviction scale with both skills and powers. Either that or require a certain balance between skills and powers. Otherwise your intended balance measure simply does not work.
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Again Demense is flavor and balance. It may not make logical sense to you, but it's important in concept.
I added a skill cap. They top out at the summoner's highest skill.
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I don't understand. What flavour does it add? And how does it provide balance?
Demesne is not a waste of Refresh. Taking it does not render you less powerful.
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Because it's a refresh that could be much better spent elsewhere. I could spend that on enhancement for more summons. I could spend it to upgrade to full evocation or Thaumaturgy. It could be a fate point. Much like Wizards adding The Sight/Soulgaze is what differentiates them from Sorcerer's, adding a Demense differentiates a Focused Summoning Mage from a standard mage. And it explains why most Wizards don't use it frequently. A demense has always struck me as purely flavor until the fight is brought into The Demense, which for a PC isn't likely. Nobody villain is just going to follow the player through the Portal to the never-never unless their victory is certain. That's what the Hero does to catch the Villain, not the other way around.
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Do you plan to be able to access you demense regardless of your physical location? If the answer to that is yes, then it doesn't do anything for balance. It is an immediate retreat in the face of any danger that, as you pointed out, no enemy would follow you to. That is nothing to casually dismiss.
I am curious how are you planning on running things with your creatures. Are you going to be making arrangements with them and then having them camp out in your demense? Alternately are you just summoning them and imprisoning them there until you want one?
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I can pull things from the Demense, but it isn't a place the character wants to br given that its a representation of his Psyche. In addition, any caster can retreat to the never never. Even a Demense shouldn't.be friendly. I don't see the advantage.
Moving to the other question. My individual character won't be calling forth anything intelligent. He views that as wrong. Technically for intelligent summons the bargaining versus forcing rules should still apply.
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There is a world of difference between hitting the local Nevernever which is normally stuffed with hostile entities or landscapes and hitting your demense. Just read the "home turf" effect that demense grants you to see the difference.
Just to be clear I think either view of accessibility could be valid since the book doesn't specify. I am simply saying that if you can reach it from anywhere then to hold it up as balance isn't very accurate. It could be hugely useful in a multitude of different scenarios. You can't say that of many things that only cost one refresh.
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I agree to an extent, but when you walk into your demense and everything you've ever summoned is there waiting, Home Turf doesn't mean much. Especially when your Demense is a representation of your mental landscape. If.your fleeing a battle that isn't going to be a fun place. That's part of the flavor bit though. However I've been looking at it as simply storage space. You can send your summons there, pull them from there, but going there yourself (physically) isn't a constant option. At that point Balance wise (and why most wizards don't summon like this for canonical purposes) it makes sense.
Lastly, any extraneous prerequisite is a balance thing. Sure it doesn't affect base power level, but it hurts customization, slowing down advancement. It still affects the class balance. Much like wizards needing the sight/soulgaze before taking lots of refinement.
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Within your Demesne, you are essentially omnipotent. You automatically succeed on all Declarations about the physical form of the Demesne. So if you want to transform the air in someone's lungs into antimatter...it's technically okay.
Most GMs will call shenanigans on that though.
The funny thing is, Demesne isn't really useful as a storage space. It does not allow you to open portals.
Anyway, that's beside the point. What I'm saying is that making the system less flexible isn't a good thing unless it's necessary for flavour. If you're after balance here, just make summoning cost a point of refresh on top of what it normally costs. Don't force summoners to mangle their character concepts with a mandatory power.
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Within your Demesne, you are essentially omnipotent. You automatically succeed on all Declarations about the physical form of the Demesne. So if you want to transform the air in someone's lungs into antimatter...it's technically okay.
Most GMs will call shenanigans on that though.
The funny thing is, Demesne isn't really useful as a storage space. It does not allow you to open portals.
Anyway, that's beside the point. What I'm saying is that making the system less flexible isn't a good thing unless it's necessary for flavour. If you're after balance here, just make summoning cost a point of refresh on top of what it normally costs. Don't force summoners to mangle their character concepts with a mandatory power.
It is very much for flavor. It's tied into the characters High Concept and everything. Functionally the characters Demense is his psyche imprinted on a pocket of the NeverNever. For the individual character it isn't really Puppies and Rainbows. He comes from an alternate dimension where Kemmler was a Demon Summoner. That Kemmler managed to yank enough high demons from Hell to start off an apocalyptic scale war between Heaven and Hell. The character, and the Denarian style(in a coin, but without the transformation/power granting abilities) spirit of the archangel Anduriel barely escaped from the fey fortress in Edinburough; coming to this dimension to warn it about Kemmler. From there he popped out into Edinburough, was arrested, proven innocent, and moved to Milwalkee WI.
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That's great flavour for your character. Not so much for the system as a whole. Characters that are nothing like yours ought to be able to summon.