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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: beachhead1973 on October 13, 2011, 04:12:35 AM
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I'm confused by the rules regarding focus items. I may be reading things wrong, but between the writted rules, the item slots table and the example items, the all seem to contradict eachother.
As i read it an item can add power or control, not both, though this later contradicts itself, or seems to. But the example for Carlos' staff contradicts this, giving +1 to power and control. Further, it only takes up two slots, but the table seems to indicate that a staff-sized item should be between 5 and 6 slots. What gives? Which is correct as per the game?
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Working backwards...
5-6 slots is a max, not an availible range.
You're probably reading it wrong. You can have power and control on the same item. The numbers on power compared to the numbers on control don't have to match. The numbers on power have to match and the numbers on control have to match. Examples:
+4 power to air costs 4 slots and is fine.
+2 power to water/air costs 4 slots and is fine.
+2 power to air, +2 control to air costs 4 slots and is fine.
+2 power to air, +1 control to water/air costs 4 slots and is fine.
+1 power to water/air, +1 control to earth/fire costs 4 slots and is fine.
+1 power to air, +2 control to air, +1 control to water costs 4 slots but is an illegal item.
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And just to mention, a staff-sized item can have less than 5 slots used, but for a focus item to have more than 4 slots used on it, it must be staff sized.
So you can have a staff with 1 slot used on it, and later on add slots if you wish.
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Oh, and don't forget that with Foci, you need to delineate whether their bonuses apply to offensive or defensive uses.
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Okay, so say I have a rod which gives me +1 to power and +1 to control for offensive earth magic, that's 2 slots right?
how about item slots as they apply to the character? how many do you get for free or as a bonus from other stuff?
and do I have it right that you may spend a refinement to add an extra item slot?
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One receives two focus slots when one purchases channeling or evocation, and two more with ritual or thaumaturgy. Refinement adds two more.
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Sponsored Magic provides 4 slots (-2 slots for each of evocation or thaumaturgy that the recipient possesses)
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Refinement adds two more.
Only if you don't take another element or specialization bonuses.
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Only if you don't take another element or specialization bonuses.
One receives two focus slots when one purchases channeling or evocation, and two more with ritual or thaumaturgy. Refinement adds two more.
each refinement adds two more? or each refinement that you specifically roll into focci and stuff?
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Refinement CAN add two more, if you choose for it to do so rather than granting specialization bonuses (if those are available to you; they are not available to those without Evocation or Thaumaturgy) or an additional element (available only for Evocation)
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okay, I think i get it now
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Quick aside, long as the topic is here. If I'm a Focused Practitioner with a Lore skill of +4, that gives me 6 focus item slots? 2 free for the FP class and 4 more from the Lore skill?
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Quick aside, long as the topic is here. If I'm a Focused Practitioner with a Lore skill of +4, that gives me 6 focus item slots? 2 free for the FP class and 4 more from the Lore skill?
Not at all. You get 2 focus item slots for each channeling and ritual, so if you have either, you have 2, if you have both, you have 4.
Lore determines how many focus item slots you may put on 1 focus item. So with a lore of 4 and 4 focus item slots from channeling and ritual, you could put all of them on 1 focus item. This is kind of important, because you can't use more than one focus item on one spell.
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This is kind of important, because you can't use more than one focus item on one spell.
Quote?
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Ok, I slightly misremembered, but there is something there (YS279)
You can’t benefit from the same type of bonus
(e.g., a control bonus) from two or more items
at the same time—so if you had two items, one
with a +2 control bonus and another with a +1
control bonus, the total effect is a +2 to control.
So you could use an item up to your lore for power and another for control, but if you have mixed items, the higher bonus would count, they would not combine.
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okay, I got that, so how to enchanted items play into all this then?
Also; A warden sword is listed an an enchanted item, can I use it as a focus?
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Yes.
However, you must spend Focus and Enchanted Item slots separately. No double-dipping.
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Not at all. You get 2 focus item slots for each channeling and ritual, so if you have either, you have 2, if you have both, you have 4.
Lore determines how many focus item slots you may put on 1 focus item. So with a lore of 4 and 4 focus item slots from channeling and ritual, you could put all of them on 1 focus item. This is kind of important, because you can't use more than one focus item on one spell.
So if I'm a Channeller with 4 Lore, I can make a +5 staff and a +1 Wand? Or a +3 on both? Is that what that means?
Calling them "slots", I think, is what's really confusing.
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No. Channelling grants you two slots. Lore does not give you any more, it simply limits how many slots you can dedicate to a single item.
With two slots you could make a staff of +2 to something, or a wand of +2 to something, or each with +1 to something.
Taking refinements will increase the amount of slots you have, by 2 per refinement.
If you spent enough on refinement (-2), you might find yourself with 6 slots. At which point, with a Lore of 4, you could make a +4 Staff, +2 Wand, or +3 Staff and +3 Ward. But you could not make a +5 Staff and +1 Wand, because the amount of slots dedicated to an item cannot exceed 4 (your Lore).
- The above info assumes you have only the power Channelling (-2), and a Great Lore (+4). It doesn't include the bonus refinements it hypothetically suggests you might buy.
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IIIII think I get it now. So I get 2 slots, which I can spend on a +2 or two +1s. If I have a Lore of +a billion, doesn't matter, I can't get any more than that. If I take Refinement for +4, though, I can pour all that into one for a +6 or have two +3s, but only if my Lore supports it.
GOT IT.
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A single refinement grants two focus item slots, which can be traded for four enchanted item slots. Four focus item slots would require two purchases of refinement.
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A single refinement grants two focus item slots, which can be traded for four enchanted item slots. Four focus item slots would require two purchases of refinement.
CAN grant you two focus item slots. If you choose that option when taking that dose of Refinement. Clarifying for Ghsdkgb.
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CAN grant you two focus item slots. If you choose that option when taking that dose of Refinement. Clarifying for Ghsdkgb.
True; thank you.
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Working backwards...
5-6 slots is a max, not an availible range.
You're probably reading it wrong. You can have power and control on the same item. The numbers on power compared to the numbers on control don't have to match. The numbers on power have to match and the numbers on control have to match. Examples:
+4 power to air costs 4 slots and is fine.
+2 power to water/air costs 4 slots and is fine.
+2 power to air, +2 control to air costs 4 slots and is fine.
+2 power to air, +1 control to water/air costs 4 slots and is fine.
+1 power to water/air, +1 control to earth/fire costs 4 slots and is fine.
+1 power to air, +2 control to air, +1 control to water costs 4 slots but is an illegal item.
Sorry, but your examples are partly wrong.
You can have both Control and Power one one item. Power and control do not have to be the same value.
So far your are correct.
However, the bonuses have to apply to all elements on the item equally.
If one really needs a formula, or a step by step way to construct a focus item, then the easiest way is to
1. decide which bonuses you want.
2. chose the elements you want all those bonuses to apply to
Cost is calculated by adding up the different bonus values, and multiplying by the number of elements.
This final cost can not exceed your lore for any single item.
For Evocation Foci its:
(offensive power + defensive power + offensive control + defensive control) * (number of elements covered) = Cost
For Thaumaturgy foci its
(Power + Control) * (number of areas covered) = Cost
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Sorry, but your examples are partly wrong.
You can have both Control and Power one one item. Power and control do not have to be the same value.
So far your are correct.
However, the bonuses have to apply to all elements on the item equally.
Read again. That's what I said and exampled. Possibly not clearly enough though and I did leave out that you need to specify offense/defense.
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Read again. That's what I said and exampled. Possibly not clearly enough though and I did leave out that you need to specify offense/defense.
Those are two of your examples.
+1 power to water/air, +1 control to earth/fire costs 4 slots and is fine.
+2 power to air, +1 control to water/air costs 4 slots and is fine.
And they do not fit the rules.
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Those are two of your examples.
And they do not fit the rules.
After a reread, good catch. Glad you noticed that or I might have gone around being wrong at people for quite a while.
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okay, I think I am confused on the definition of an enchanted item then...is it just a one-purpose magical device that cannot be used a focus?
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That depends. You could theoretically spend both enchanted item slots and focus item slots on the same item, providing the item size gives it enough potential slots.
However an item that is only an enchanted item, is a single purpose (unless more slots are put into giving it multiple purposes, or its a Warden's Sword), device. Not necessarily single use, but yes, single purpose.
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Focus items and Enchanted items are two separate things.
Connecting them is the "currency" in which you pay for them.
Focus Slots & Enchanted item slots.
Those can be exchanged Focus:Enchanted at a 1:2 ratio.
You can have an item that is a Focus and an Enchanted item at the same time, but the cost for those two functions is calculated separately.
You should still respect the slot limits for size though.
The Size Table on page 281 is not an "and" table btw.
It's 1-2 Focus item slots or 1-4 Enchanted item slots for a ring sized item... and so on.
But you can easily add Focus Item Functions for 1 Focus Slot, and Enchanted item Functions for 2 Enchanted item Slots to such a Ring Sized Item for example.
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okay, I think I am confused on the definition of an enchanted item then...is it just a one-purpose magical device that cannot be used a focus?
Enchanted items contain a spell for you to release / use at some later date.
Foci are tools used to enhance your spellcasting.
That's the basic difference. A few items, such as a Warden's sword, blur the lines between the two types. But they're not exactly something every wizard should be capable of creating. ;)
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Enchanted items contain a spell for you to release / use at some later date.
Foci are tools used to enhance your spellcasting.
That's the basic difference. A few items, such as a Warden's sword, blur the lines between the two types. But they're not exactly something every wizard should be capable of creating. ;)
Good hits! that's what was tripping me up on that one!