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Messages - Mira

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91
DF Spoilers / Re: Why did Dumorne put the mental whamy on when he did?
« on: January 04, 2024, 01:00:10 PM »
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We don't know how Mab's intelligence network works.  Specifically, we don't know how Mab became aware of Lea's involvement with Margaret LeFay and her son.  We only know that at some point Mab became interested in seeing Harry in action, to make her own judgement about his potential.   

It might have been Summer Knight when Mab took on Harry's "contract" with Lea.  The three favors he owed her for the "confidence" she gave him when he was sixteen to take on Justin.  Mab knew that what Lea did was mostly song and dance and that it is no small thing that a sixteen year old apprentice can take on, defeat and kill a fully trained warden of the White Council.

92
DF Spoilers / Re: ebenezer didn't look for harry
« on: January 04, 2024, 12:52:30 PM »
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In my version of events Lea knew exactly what kind of person Justin was; even if the White Council didn't know, or fully know, about Justin.  She always planned to turn on him at the first opportunity and gain the use of Harry's abilities for herself.  Justin probably never realized that Lea had been training Harry; apparently to just believe in himself, when Harry returned to face him.  It's a series of moves that the White Court of Vampires would approve of.

What would the White Court of Vampires have to do with Lea and Justin?  Yes, Lord Raith murdered Harry's mother, but I don't see any evidence that he had anything to do with either Lea or Justin.

93
DF Spoilers / Re: WOJ search for Uriel/Odin deal for Murphy.
« on: January 03, 2024, 06:13:46 PM »
Well, in Battle Ground, Murphy is able to do the things she does because of the magical boost she's getting from Mab. Bob explains it to Harry and even holds up Murphy as an example of how it's working. If Murphy had survived Rudolph, I suspect she would have been left in charge to hold the impromptu fortress while Sanya, Butters and Harry went to ambush the Formor.

That was before the boost. 

94
DF Spoilers / Re: Why did Dumorne put the mental whamy on when he did?
« on: January 03, 2024, 03:15:24 PM »

  Except if you look at Harry's style, he still uses rings, bracelets, firing rods etc..  It was even truer when he was younger, Justin would know that.

95
DF Spoilers / Re: WOJ search for Uriel/Odin deal for Murphy.
« on: January 03, 2024, 05:52:46 AM »
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She was an extremely-advanced martial-arts practitioner; many of them are startlingly-competent.

  She had limits, Nic wiped the curb with her.. Then she removes her own casts, one minute she can barely walk, the next she manages to surprise and take down a Valkyrie? 
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I personally knew a "Murphy"-like person -- cute, small, blonde, senior aikidoka.  Nice lady, and when she came at you seriously she was the scariest person I've ever met (this with years of karate behind me).  I have literally seen another black-belt take a glance at her then turn and run away, on the mat!

Maybe when she was physically whole and in shape, but as of Peace Talks and Battle Ground Murphy wasn't.  Even if she were in splints and doing physical therapy all along after Nic got done with her... She apparently wasn't because she had to cut her cast off, if you have ever worn a cast for a time or recovered in splints after orthopedic surgery, you know the limb doesn't instantly recover, even if you are doing physical therapy all along..
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When Murphy added the Sword at Chichén Itzá... yes, that turned her dial up to "11," and I liked it -- for her character, for the story -- that she decided to put the Sword back down again, afterwards.  The post-Changes Murphy was back to being a mortal, not Supermurphy; but she was much more being stretched to her limits, and barely-keeping-up.  Before that, with a couple of exceptions (vs the Nightmare & vs. Papa Raith), Murphy was mostly on top of even the supernatural situations.

Which just wasn't realistic even for a fantasy.
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From the high-fantasy action-adventure aspect of the Casefiles, Murphy was no longer a "viable" adventuring character to accompany Harry.

Which Murphy should never have been to begin with in my opinion. When we first meet her, smart, strong,a good shot and martial artist, she didn't need to become an action-adventure figure to be compelling.  Michael doesn't need any super human abilities, he had a Holy Sword, but he does pretty good without that.

Actually when you think of it, Murphy's actions was really a form of suicide.  With her injuries she wasn't up to really fighting any pitched physical battles, and actually could have made things worse had Harry been distracted trying to protect her.  Yes, she caught a bullet from a paranoid cop and died, and did manage to take out a giant with a bazooka before she died, but in the later physical battles where even the likes of Odin and Mab barely made it, she wouldn't have survived.  Yes, hard to stay behind at Mac's place to protect the people there, but Harry wasn't being over protective of her in doing that.  Actually it was her ego once again that she knew better, so she failed to follow orders, that's what got her killed.

96
DF Spoilers / Re: Why did Dumorne put the mental whamy on when he did?
« on: January 02, 2024, 10:00:36 PM »
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Cite please?  I recall it as Harry getting home from a normal school-day, not that he had cut class.  But maybe I misremember.

Ghost Story page 267

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I never suspected a thing about what he really wanted,until the day Elaine stayed home sick. Concerned about her, I skipped my last class and came home early.  The house seemed too quiet, and an energy I had never sensed before hung in the air like cloying perfume.

Further down on the same page Harry says he now knows that Justin had put a "mental whammy" on Elaine.
Next page more interesting; 

Justin says
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"You skipped class again." He sighed. "I should have seen that coming."

This implies that Justin was surprised that Harry came home when he did.. However further down after Justin speaks about needing people he can trust, Harry notices something..

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Their expressions gave me nothing. That was when my eyes fell to the coffee table and to the object lying quietly next to my well-mauled copy of The Hobbit.
A straightjacket.

This implies to me at any rate that Justin wasn't really surprised that Harry skipped class.. He was ready for him.

Then on page 269 rereading just now is a really strange sentence;
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"Boy!" Justin said, projecting his voice loudly.  I looked over my shoulder at him as I ran.  His eyes were more coldly furious than I had ever seen them. "You are here with me--with Elaine.  Or you are nowhere. If you don't come back right now, you are dead to me"
The "nowhere" in italics are Jim's not mine.  Now it could be that Justin was super confident that Elaine was with him because he had enthralled her... Or it really was a planned act to get Harry from the get go, and him coming home early broke up their plans before they were ready for him.
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Does it matter (why does it matter) whether Justin had been planning for Harry to get home early, or just get home at the regular time?

I think it does matter, Harry completely trusted both Elaine and Justin, so under some pretense they may have been able to trick him into the straightjack or otherwise put the mental whammy on him. Harry says he never suspected anything, but by coming home early he walked right into the middle of Justin's application of black magic, though at that moment he didn't know what he was sensing, except that it wasn't good for him.  An hour or two later, especially since at that moment Harry didn't know he was sensing black magic, Harry may not of realized that something was very wrong and that he was in danger.

97
DF Spoilers / Re: Why did Dumorne put the mental whamy on when he did?
« on: January 02, 2024, 03:29:23 PM »
I think Harry&Elaine were (largely) being taught together.
They certainly shared a lot of homework assignments!

I'm sure there were some lessons specific to each of them, while the other did bookwork &c.  Their respective strengths and weaknesses differ, after all (not that we know a lot about Elaine's, but we see their preferred methods aren't identical).
 
I presume Elaine got largely-similar treatment to what Harry got; if Justin was notably harder or easier on her, we'd have heard about it by this time:  it's the sort of thing kids remember even into adulthood.

However at this point, we don't know..  The subjects taught might have been the same so that homework assignments can be worked on together.. However if the slant on that same subject is a bit different, the outcome can be different.  Also we presume it was magical homework they shared, it could have been a math assignment from school.  For some reason Justin attempted to enthrall Elaine first, if she was in fact enthralled. Target of opportunity? As he taught them did he find her more vulnerable?  Here is another thing that really doesn't add up.. Supposedly Elaine stayed home from school that day because she was sick.. Harry cut class to return home to be with her..  Where did Harry think Justin would be during this?  Did Justin have some kind of day job? Was Justin so involved with his magical research that he wouldn't notice that Harry cut school? Did Justin even care if Harry cut school?  Apparently it was no surprise that Harry would cut school, Justin and "enthralled Elaine" were waiting for him with a straight jacket..  The point I am getting at is, Justin counted on Harry cutting class and coming home when he did, and then trapping him.  Would he have attempted it if Harry had not cut class that day? 

98
DF Spoilers / Re: WOJ search for Uriel/Odin deal for Murphy.
« on: January 02, 2024, 02:38:56 PM »
Murphy had to die (or maybe "die").
She was just a mortal, and Harry was moving further and further up the supernatural food-chain.  She could do amazing stuff against Valkyries, Whampires, etc... But put against something like a Naagloshii, she'd be d-e-d dead.
Which kind of goes back to my original point about Murphy, what was originally appealing about her in my opinion, was her mortality.  The amazing stuff she was able to do stopped being believable, she became Bruce Lee on steroids, Annie Oakley with a high powered scope, all with a higher IQ than Einstein. So now that she is dead...

Can she be considered a higher functioning "zombie" now? Is that what an Einherjar is?  Does she still have free will since she is now one of Odin's Einherjar? Supposedly she won't return until she has passed out of living memory, but what of her memory? Imagine Harry's pain if she is brought back and he knows her, but she has no clue of who he is or cares.. 

99
DF Spoilers / Re: ebenezer didn't look for harry
« on: December 30, 2023, 06:53:18 PM »
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After reading Peace Talks, he did look for Harry and he did find him. But he didn't take him in, because he was taken care of. I think he planned on watching, if little Harry started showing magical talent at some time. If it never happened, Harry would never have known him. If Harry showed talent, Ebenezar would have taken him as apprentice or apprentice him to an other wizard he trusted.

  Oh wonderful, a fightened six year old orphan all alone in the world, ward of the state, in an orphanage... His only known living relative ignores him, but might take an interest if little Harry showed any talent as he nears the age of eleven or twelve.. This was for Harry's own good, mind you, I guess Eb could rationalize a couple of reasons for doing that...  ???
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But then Harry was adopted by Justin. Maybe Justin even got a tip from Ebenezar. During this time Justin was still supposed to be a respected warden, so good master material for Harry. But why did Eb approve of Justin not introducing his apprentice to the council?

Better question, why is it that only a couple of trusted wizards even know that Harry is he grandson?
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After Malcolm died, Lea took care that Harry disappeared from all mundane and magical screens, because of a deal Margaret made with her for Harry's protection. So nobody could find Harry. Not even powerful wizards with blood relation. Justin was just screening the orphanages for weird incidences. That's how he found Harry. It was the impossible long jump.
Is it?  I don't buy that Justin decided one day in his retirement since he had nothing better to do, that it would be great to raise a couple of kids. So he scoured all the orphanages in the country looking for kids with talent, better yet kids that could qualify as star born, to adopt. I think there is a lot more to this story that we don't know yet.
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I think #2 is more likely, considering Morgan's journal entry. I guess, Justin still appeared at council meetings, but never told any other council wizard about his apprentices. But I also can totally imagine Ebenezar knowing where his grandson was, but just not interfering. Like he seemed to have done with his own daughter.
I hope this will be cleared up some day.

I hope so too, there is also the little matter of why didn't Eb reveal to young Harry when he took him in under the Doom that he was his grandfather?

Bottom line? Eb shouldn't be lecturing Harry on how to raise his own daughter!  Wizards who live in wooden houses shouldn't be throwing fire balls! >:(

100
DF Spoilers / Re: ebenezer didn't look for harry
« on: December 30, 2023, 01:01:51 PM »


  That's the $64,000.00 question as they used to say.  We've been kicking that subject around for years.

101
DF Spoilers / Re: WOJ search for Uriel/Odin deal for Murphy.
« on: December 28, 2023, 02:49:47 PM »
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So while there may not be any active "romantic relationship," there's still a background tension there (much as there was between him and Murphy, for many books).

But that's the point, once the sexual tension is consummated it changes the relationship. It also changed Murphy, what made her interesting as a character for me was she was a strong female, was devoted to being a good policeman and the law, but was open minded about Harry's world and what he faced.  This gave her her own conflict to deal with, the sexual tension between her and Harry only added to the mix.  Actually I think it would have been better if Jim had stuck with Murphy's original reasons for not wanting a sexual relationship with Harry.  They were very good reasons, once they were abandoned, while he tried to make her more kick ass than ever, I found her a lot less interesting and a lot less believable.

102
DF Spoilers / Re: Why did Dumorne put the mental whamy on when he did?
« on: December 28, 2023, 02:39:45 PM »
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I'll re-introduce my own WAG here... part of which is that Justin isn't (necessarily(*)) the "evil wizard" Harry thinks he is.

He's "old-school" and harsh, for sure... fastball baseballs as shield-training, &c.  But the mover & shaker in this was Mab(**).

  I agree that Justin was old school, but I don't think Mab is the mover and shaker here.  I also agree that there is a lot of missing information and when and if we ever find out what and why of it it will turn out to be a lot more complicated than we think.

1] Yes, Justin old school wizard, former Warden, he was tough on Harry... But was he equally tough on Elaine? We know nothing of his lessons with her.  Why weren't her and Harry taught together? After all defensive skills are the same for male as well as for female wizards as Lea and Mab both complained to Harry that he was too easy on Molly.

103
DF Spoilers / Re: Why did Dumorne put the mental whamy on when he did?
« on: December 20, 2023, 05:01:38 PM »
Perhaps he got wind of the Leansidhe coming to check up on Harry or even take him away? Justin was a Warden, but I doubt he could have stopped her if she were determined or bound by her deal with Maggie Sr.

Or he underestimated how quick a 16 year old kid can move when he is scared.

104
DF Spoilers / Re: Why did Dumorne put the mental whamy on when he did?
« on: December 20, 2023, 01:32:05 PM »
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Elsethread was posed the question:  what if it was an attempted Nemfection?
Would young-Harry, half-trained and in a panic, have even known the difference?

How could he?  Until Harry pushed Titania to name names, he didn't even know Nemesis existed, and Harry is just now learning what it is capable of.  Hind sight is 20/20 and I wouldn't be surprised if Harry revisits what happened that day with fresh eyes knowing what he knows now and will learn in future books.

105
DF Spoilers / Re: Why did Dumorne put the mental whamy on when he did?
« on: December 20, 2023, 03:10:44 AM »
Even if she wasn’t enthralled he was planning to act against Harry.  Why… then?  Why the clumsy action with poor preparation?

Over confident perhaps?

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