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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => DF Reference Collection => Topic started by: Cenphx on February 05, 2013, 03:14:40 AM
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I am wondering if Mab’s rule against spilling blood at Arctis Tor is not simple court protocol. Here is the relevant scene - from Cold Days (hardback ed.) at 59:
A large ruby droplet fell from her lip and hung in the air, shining and perfect, and there for half of forever. Then it finally splashed down onto the icy floor.
There was a shrieking hiss as the blood hit the supernatural ice, a sound somewhere between a hot skillet and a high-pressure industrial accident. The ice beneath the drop of blood shattered, as if the droplet had been unimaginably heavy, and a web of dark cracks shot out for fifty feet in every direction.
The music stopped. The Redcap froze. So did everyone else.
Mab rose out of her chair, and somehow in that instant of action she crossed the distance from her high seat, as though the simple act of standing up were what propelled her to the space nearby. As she came, the pallid finery of her dress darkened to a raven black, as if the air had contained a fine mist of ink. Her hair darkened as well to the same color and her eyes turned entirely black, sclera and all, as did her nails. The skin seemed to cling harder to her bones, making her beautiful features gaunt and terrible.
At first I thought the rule against bloodshed just dealt with the rules of hospitality. As host, Mab likely had to extend safety to her guests, so a rule against fighting was necessary to allow enemies to attend the same gathering. I thought Mab’s reaction was anger at having her rule thwarted. Neither the rule nor her reaction would have anything to do with Mab’s personal tastes; I doubt very much that she would be squeamish about a fight to the death at her party.
But if the rule is just about rules of hospitality, why not decree “no fighting”? Why the specific rule against blood? I think the blood is important in some specific way. Note the way even the ice reacted to the touch of blood—almost like some sort of shrieking alarm. And similar to the way the doors at Artis Tor reacted to Charity’s iron ax in Proven Guilty. It seems that Arctis Tor reacted to the blood as a poison the same way it did to iron.
Likewise, I don’t think Mab’s reaction to the blood was out of anger; I think it was involuntary. As mad as she was in SmF when she was talking to Harry at the hospital and made his eyes freeze, she did not turn black and have some sort of strain on her that made her skin stretch over her bones and her features gaunt. Though to a lesser degree, this description echoes what Mab looked like in Changes after she spent months, using all her strength to keep Harry alive at a terrible cost to herself. Therefore, in Cold Days, I think the blood falling on the floor caused some sort of involuntary physical reaction in Mab. I am imagining it as something like an immune response; she was protecting herself against the blood.
Finally, the way Mab responded, by darkening to a black color as if pulling a fine mist of black ink out of the air sounds reminiscent of a couple different scenes from the series. It sounds like the way the Black Staff pulled out of Ebeneazer black tendrils of what I assume was taint from performing black magic. It also echoes the black inky mist like tendrils of the mordite mist-fiend, an outsider.
So….is it possible that Mab’s reaction was a built-in autoimmune response to the possibility of a contagion? Is it possible that Nemesis is a blood born contagion?
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Just one quick question: How did Lea get it from the Athame?
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Just one quick question: How did Lea get it from the Athame?
My guess? When she used it during a ritual that involved blood at some point. That Lea's a fan of blood rituals. She used one with Harry when he ran to her for power to use against DuMorne.
I don't think all athame's are used as cutting instruments, maybe some are, some aren't.
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Hmm, interesting...
There's definitely something more complicated going on though. CD isn't the first time that Mab has been involved directly with blood.
The woman ran an opalescent fingernail through the blood on my desk. She lifted it to her lips and idly touched it to her tongue. She smiled, slower, more sensual, and every bit as alien. "I have many names," she murmured. "But you may call me Mab. Queen of Air and Darkness. Monarch of the Winter Court of the Sidhe."
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Hmm, interesting...
There's definitely something more complicated going on though. CD isn't the first time that Mab has been involved directly with blood.
yeah, I believe there was something important happening in the CD scene, but I may be way off base with the Nemesis contagion part. It feels like that scene is a puzzle piece but I don't know how or where it fits yet.
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yeah, I believe there was something important happening in the CD scene, but I may be way off base with the Nemesis contagion part. It feels like that scene is a puzzle piece but I don't know how or where it fits yet.
Mab does mention that she was considering risking a "great deal" on Harry, and she initially wants to try to have a soulgaze with him. What if Mab was trying some tests to see if Harry was infected? Mab may have given herself an acceptable chance of shaking off the Nemesis infection from a single drop of blood of a lowly mortal, if Mab found out that Harry was actually infected.
Assuming that blood makes a good vector for contamination, it makes sense for Mab to ban bloodshed in her stronghold. Nemesis would only need to send in a sleeper agent to try to infect all of Mab's strongest subjects at once. The reaction of the ice may be a purposeful alarm against such an attack.
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without the book in front of me, I cannot answer this.
How long has that rule been in place? Has it only been in place since Maeve was infected?
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Or, it might be that Blood contains a lot of Iron. Arctis Tor might be a construct made from her powers. One drop of iron rich blood has the same effect on the structure as Iron would have on any Fae. The breaking of the ice could have caused a power feedback that was painful to Mab.
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without the book in front of me, I cannot answer this.
How long has that rule been in place? Has it only been in place since Maeve was infected?
We don't know. First mentioned in CD. However, Sarissa's comments make it seem like it's been awhile. Dozens of years at the VERY least, I'd guess.
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No bloodshed seems to be a common theme in older times as well though, though with the Celts it was that you didn't draw your blade except in the defence of your host. Unless you were breaking the law that is.
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When first reading it, i had assumed that the "No Blood" rule was just so Harry would be constrained in the shit storm that was coming.
After reading the book, i think she acted that way because it was Sarissa who was harmed, and i think Arctis Tor reacted that way because Sarissa shares Mab's blood.
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You know, Second Aristh, rereading your post about the scene from SK, I always read that as Mab being sadistic as well as proving her power over Harry, but what if the *point* was the blood that she then tasted? Was she checking for contagion? IIRC, thats the same book that Rashid talks about his doubts about Harry. AND the temple dogs at the council meeting alerted at Harry's hand like it was black magic or something. Then they decide it was just because of the injury. But what if they were also sniffing for contagion? This is what I hate about nemesis--it could be anywhere. We just dont have enough info to do more than guess :(
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Which is EXACTLY why Mr. Butcher put it in. :D
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When mab changed at harry's party, that was a great scene. We are going to be picking that party apart for clues for a long time. I like the idea that blood contains iron so no blood must be spilled. I also think we saw another aspect of mab, maybe even another mantle and that is as a judge of some type. We see the same look when she is summoned to demonreach by harry and maeve knows she is doomed when her mother appears. Maeve even says she knows she has been judged, sorry paraphrasing some there i believe i have it correctly. Winter law is harsh, the rule of not spilling blood at a courtly function is one i have heard of before, so i can believe it is just that a rule of courtesy, but as anything jim writes there are many interpretations and we may well look at it near the end of the series and see it as a huge clue, perhaps to nemesis infection, perhaps not. If it takes a blood ritual, perhaps drinking, i could see what the vampire courts would show the first signs, and it might even pave the way for people to be born infected. Kinda headed into left field with this so i am goin to stop there. The way jim writes though it would not surprise me to see the no bloodshed rules as being both a common courtesy as well as prevention of nemesis infection in one clue.
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So….is it possible that Mab’s reaction was a built-in autoimmune response to the possibility of a contagion? Is it possible that Nemesis is a blood born contagion?
I turned my back on the image, deliberately-before I could see it change into the Elaine that I had last seen-naked, festooned in swirling paints that lent a savage aura to her skin. Her lips had been stained brilliant, wet red, curving around twisting, rolling phrases as she chanted in the midst of her circle, its sigils meant to focus pain and fury into tangible power that had been used to hold a foolish young man helpless while his mentor offered him one last chance to sip from a chalice of fresh, hot blood.
:)
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When mab changed at harry's party, that was a great scene. We are going to be picking that party apart for clues for a long time. I like the idea that blood contains iron so no blood must be spilled. I also think we saw another aspect of mab, maybe even another mantle and that is as a judge of some type. We see the same look when she is summoned to demonreach by harry and maeve knows she is doomed when her mother appears. Maeve even says she knows she has been judged, sorry paraphrasing some there i believe i have it correctly. Winter law is harsh, the rule of not spilling blood at a courtly function is one i have heard of before, so i can believe it is just that a rule of courtesy, but as anything jim writes there are many interpretations and we may well look at it near the end of the series and see it as a huge clue, perhaps to nemesis infection, perhaps not. If it takes a blood ritual, perhaps drinking, i could see what the vampire courts would show the first signs, and it might even pave the way for people to be born infected. Kinda headed into left field with this so i am goin to stop there. The way jim writes though it would not surprise me to see the no bloodshed rules as being both a common courtesy as well as prevention of nemesis infection in one clue.
Which begs the question: What is fae blood made of, and what does it look like? Or is hemoglobin too diluted of iron to serve as kryptonite for fae?
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Ugh, Nemsis again... :(
Blood (red blood cells, contain a single Iron atom within the complex chain of proteins)
How to try and describe this... hmm.
Iron is the star killer. Iron is the first known element to take more energy to create than you get.
Err, the fairy live in a the realm of the nevernever... or whatever you want to consister it. The realm, by its very nature... dislikes reality, or items/things that are "heavy or real". Ether, the inmaterial. As we read through the whole of the dresden universe... several "heavy" items affect the fae. Harry talk's about using Uranium (depleted) as well.
Chances are that the infection is something that would take some amount of time...
Sith wouldn't respond to Harry's summons (after an hour or so after the fight), chances are he was being restrain'd and a ritual was being preformed.
Aka... something that took time.
If it was quick, then Sith shouldv'e responded in short order to Harry's summons.
The blood is just iron, or perhaps the impruities of a moral creature in the realms of ideas. Conflicted ideas come from people, blood comes from people...
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2 things. 1) I didnt say any particular person was infected nor did claim every person was infected. This isnt a thread about how 'everyone's infected!'-Harry's toothbrush is infected!. Its. About parsing that scene. 2) if it was as simple as the iron in the blood affecting faery, then I guess Mab shouldve had a problem touching Harry's in SK and Lea shouldve had a problem during her blood ritual.
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You know, Second Aristh, rereading your post about the scene from SK, I always read that as Mab being sadistic as well as proving her power over Harry, but what if the *point* was the blood that she then tasted? Was she checking for contagion? IIRC, thats the same book that Rashid talks about his doubts about Harry. AND the temple dogs at the council meeting alerted at Harry's hand like it was black magic or something. Then they decide it was just because of the injury. But what if they were also sniffing for contagion? This is what I hate about nemesis--it could be anywhere. We just dont have enough info to do more than guess :(
An "All of the Above" strategy is usually the closest any of us ever come to guessing Mab's goals. There's no reason it couldn't be both at this point. :)
:)
Excellent catch Elegast. Blood as the contagion is shaping up nicely for a theory. It might explain why it seems like so many vampires are wrapped up in a Nemesis plot. They are involved with the blood of others more often than most.
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Agreed--thanks for finding and posting that Elaine scene. :) are there more scenes like Mab in SK and the Elaine-blood sacrifice scene? I still feel like I'm missing something, like its not just blood alone thats the problem, but Im not sure what the other nuance is.
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Also goes well with Lea and the legends about her.
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Yeah, the fae don't seem the least bit squeamish about blood. I doubt there's any issues with the iron in it. And as others have said, Lea's whole schtick is draining the blood of the people she inspires and using it to add to her own power.
Also, Maeve points out on Demonreach that Mab arrives in black, "as the judge". I don't think that her clothes turning black at Harry's birthday party has anything to do with the blood itself, but rather her being about to pass judgement on someone.
Also, the restrictions against "spilling blood" and clever characters finding ways around it is a pretty common thread in stories and folklore.
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Also, the Redcap doesn't get his name from strawberries.
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Also, the Redcap doesn't get his name from strawberries.
:o
His hat must be infected. And Harry kept it at the end of CD... (I'll have to check to be sure.)
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:o
His hat must be infected. And Harry kept it at the end of CD... (I'll have to check to be sure.)
It never belonged to Indiana Jones. That hat is not worthy ;D
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:o
His hat must be infected. And Harry kept it at the end of CD... (I'll have to check to be sure.)
He should have kept Sharkface's cloak rather than the baseball cap....
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He should have kept Sharkface's cloak rather than the baseball cap....
Hehe. Would Harry start rolling into rooms looking like a spinning ball of ribbons then?
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Hehe. Would Harry start rolling into rooms looking like a spinning ball of ribbons then?
Sure, but I was talking more about the fact that it works as a bunch of spears, a way to grab things, a shield and IIRC to assist in flight. That cloak was amazing.
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Agreed. And Harry may be uniquely suited to use it safely. Hadn't thought of that.
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Heh. Trying to imagine what Harry would look like with Sharkface's coat, the Redcap's hat, and Nic's noose.
Probably enough to set any cover artist to twitching.
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Why are we assuming that Sharkface and his coat are all all two different things?
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Heh. Trying to imagine what Harry would look like with Sharkface's coat, the Redcap's hat, and Nic's noose.
Probably enough to set any cover artist to twitching.
Alas, the Redcap's hat was wrecked by nails going through it.
And twitching in laughter or the thought that "this is going to be a pain to draw"?
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With apologies for derailing the thread . . .
In the quote Elegast posted from Fool Moon - Do we know whose blood that was that Justin was trying to force down Harry's throat?
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With apologies for derailing the thread . . .
In the quote Elegast posted from Fool Moon - Do we know whose blood that was that Justin was trying to force down Harry's throat?
Not really. I don't think we are entirely certain that that particular memory of Harry's represented what actually happened that well. It had a nightmarish quality when I read it. Harry could be remembering exaggerations.
Went back and checked: Ch.30 of GS gives us a different perspective, and none of the more colorful descriptions from Elegast's excerpt are mentioned.
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Wait...the GS version of the scene was less detailed and horrible? I need to reread that.
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Went back and checked: Ch.30 of GS gives us a different perspective, and none of the more colorful descriptions from Elegast's excerpt are mentioned.
Wasn't the scene in Ghost Story when Harry ran away and the scene in Fool Moon something that happened when he came back to confront Justin?
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That is how I remember it, but I don't have my DF books at hand.
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Blood stains are so damn difficult to remove from the carpets... ::)
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If your carpets are red, it doesn't matter. :D
(Looks at floor) Hehehehehe.
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If your carpets are red, it doesn't matter. :D
(Looks at floor) Hehehehehe.
Yeah, but that doesn't work for royalty, they have blue blood... Egads! What if Spock should spill his blood? Well, not quite so bad, deconstructed Christmas card.. :-\
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Solution: Black carpet. 8)
(Looks into bedroom.) Hahahahaha....
I have really odd color carpets, now that I think of it.
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Wasn't the scene in Ghost Story when Harry ran away and the scene in Fool Moon something that happened when he came back to confront Justin?
Ah that's a possibility that I hadn't considered. You are probably right.
As an aside, 1000 posts ;D
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As an aside, 1000 posts ;D
Really? I see 1001.
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Really? I see 1001.
Hmm, don't know why that is. From my screen, this particular post is 1001. Either way I'm happy to join the halls of the McPostingtons ;D
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Hmm, don't know why that is. From my screen, this particular post is 1001. Either way I'm happy to join the halls of the McPostingtons ;D
I was trying to make a joke, as any attempt to contradict this statement would have increased your total to 1001.
Not really funny I admit.
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I was trying to make a joke, as any attempt to contradict this statement would have increased your total to 1001.
Not really funny I admit.
Ah okay :)
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Why are we assuming that Sharkface and his coat are all all two different things?
Because we want to see the cloak again?
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So….is it possible that Mab’s reaction was a built-in autoimmune response to the possibility of a contagion? Is it possible that Nemesis is a blood born contagion?
I wonder if the blood given to DM was also a test to check if Harry is infected.
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Someone said in another thread that there is a WoJ that the blood was more important in that spell/invocation than the soulfire. Seems to support the blood was necessary-maybe for the infection screening
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Blood does not lie. So it makes sense that any infection would reveal itself their. As for why Mab would have to check Harry in SK could be to ensure the mark of HWWB didn't have a handle on him.
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If the contagion passes through the blood, that would have rendered the blood-drinking Red Court particularly susceptible. We know the Reds called up Outsiders to attack the Council, and who knows how far the infection had spread by that point (assuming Arianna and Bianca were in fact infected). Nicodemus---who, based on his conversations with Harry in Small Favor, definitely seems clued in about the contagion---mentioned to Harry that he wanted the Red Court to be destroyed, but never specified why; if he knew Nemesis was transferred via blood, he would have known the Red Court (despite its Fallen-friendly MO of causing harm) was too big a danger to be allowed to survive.