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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Mira on January 07, 2019, 02:56:48 AM
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Page 322 Cold Days Harry knocks some small clay pots from a shelf... The have labels, he makes an
effort to pick them up, Mother Summer takes the cracked small pot from Harry's hands..
As gently as if handling a newborn, she took the little clay pot from me and turned it slowly, closed her eyes for a moment, and then put it reverently back on the shelf.
When she took her hands from the little pot, I saw letters written in silvery light upon it and the neighboring pots, as if letters had been awakened by the warmth of her hands.
The writing on the cracked pot said simply Wormwood.
The letters began to fade, but I saw some of the others: Typhus.Pox. Atermors. Choleros. Malaros.
Typhus. Smallpox. The Black Death. Malaria. And Wormwood.
I bring this up because today on NPR they were saying that they have found that a simple tea brewed from Wormwood can cure schistosomiasis, a very nasty parasitic disease common in Africa, and that it is also a useful ingredient in a treatment of malaria... I remember when Cold Days came
out there was a rather long thread on this passage, mainly speculating on wormwood... The radio said simply that it is a common bush in Africa, had been used against worm infestations by the natives for years hence the name wormwood... And that they have found in a study that the tea from it is more effective than a fancy expensive medicine they've come up with. Notice that Mother
Summer handled the little pot that contained it with reverence.. Because it can bring a cure to so many things? An answer to be found among the so many dreaded diseases...
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I have no idea but did find this in the Wikipedia entry.
In the Bible, the book of Revelation tells of a star named Wormwood that plummets to Earth and turns a third of the rivers and fountains of waters bitter.[26]
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I have no idea but did find this in the Wikipedia entry.
In addition to the Revelations stuff, Artemisia is a kind of decorative plant used in much of the US and Europe. One kind of Artemisia nicknamed "wormwood" is used to make absinthe. An alcoholic drink that tastes similar to anise (sort of black licorice flavored if you haven't had anise). People used to say that it was hallucinogenic. Apparently, it's currently legal in the US (as of 2007 according to wikipedia).
One additional interesting aside to the revelations stuff is that Chernobyl (and because lots of people seem younger then me these days: Chernobyl is a nuclear power plant in the Ukranian part of the former USSR that had a melt down) is claimed by many to also translate into wormwood.
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Yeah, it's almost certainly the star from Revelations.
And on the Revelations note, the original Greek word for Revelation, is Apocalypse. As in, Big Trilogy.
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worm·wood
/ˈwərmˌwo͝od/
noun
noun: wormwood; plural noun: wormwoods
1.
a woody shrub with a bitter aromatic taste, used, especially formerly, as an ingredient of vermouth and absinthe and in medicine.
2.
a state or source of bitterness or grief.
I find the second definition rather interesting.. I remember another quote from Lion in Winter,
if you are familiar with the movie or play it is when Catherine is thwarted in her plans to make her son Richard heir to the throne, by her husband King Henry who wants their son, John to succeed him. There is a lot of intrigue and things backfire.. Catherine tells Richard, and I am paraphrasing now, "Oh leave it Richard, take your wormwood like a good little boy and go to bed!"
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Oh this is cool, I only knew about the Revelation stuff. I heard it was theorized that that scene was foreshadowing for the BAT. Though with this information, wormwood could be a red herring for something worse, and wormwood was actually good all along. Maybe someone has to convince Mother Summer to help humanity and not let nature take its course.
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Wormwood is only mentioned once in the Book of Revelation: Revelation 8 verse 10. "The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water— the name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter." (Rev 8:10–11)
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Wormwood is only mentioned once in the Book of Revelation: Revelation 8 verse 10. "The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water— the name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter." (Rev 8:10–11)
Which fits with the second definition for wormwood that I sighted,
a state or source of bitterness or grief.
However in reality it is also a powerful medicine that can cure people from a very nasty disease.. It appears to have two sides, hence the reverence that Mother Summer seemed to have for the little pot as she put it back on the shelf... Actually also not uncommon for lots of drugs, they can both cure and kill depending on how they are used. Also point out that the names on the little pots are all actual diseases, where as wormwood, with its many negative connotations is a cure for many, and not a disease.
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As it is capitalized and with diseases, I believe it is a reference to Revelations. The word for the wormwood plant has been used throughout history to mean bitter, both literally and more figuratively. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormwood_(Bible) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormwood_(Bible))
And on the Revelations note, the original Greek word for Revelation, is Apocalypse. As in, Big Trilogy.
Just to clarify, apocalypse originally meant revelation, as in revealed truth. Because of the contents of the book, it has come to mean the end of the world. Funnily enough, the Book of Revelations is also where we get the word armageddon as meaning the end of the world.
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Here is something a little more interesting further down in that article, bolding mine
Certain commentators have held that this "great star" represents one of several important figures in political or ecclesiastical history,[4] while other Bible dictionaries and commentaries view the term as a reference to a celestial being. A Dictionary of The Holy Bible states, "the star called Wormwood seems to denote a mighty prince, or power of the air, the instrument, in its fall."[5]
Mighty prince? Could that mean Starborn as in Harry?
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Here is something a little more interesting further down in that article, bolding mine
Mighty prince? Could that mean Starborn as in Harry?
Another name for Mab in the Dresden verse is the queen of air and darkness. So maybe Harry is the power of the air.
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Another name for Mab in the Dresden verse is the queen of air and darkness. So maybe Harry is the power of the air.
Perhaps, but the key word in that sentence in my opinion is a star. Harry as we all know now is star born.
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"It is not yet the appointed time for that one to be born," Mother Summer said quietly, and her hard eyes flicked towards Mother Winter.
I'm guessing it does not refer to the Starborn. In human taste, bitterness is a marker for poison. Bitter almonds is a descriptor for cyanide. Whatever it is, it must be bad cause Mother Summer gave Mother Winter the stink eye for cracking the container.
it means something, but like a lot of JB's clues, it will only make sense later.
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I'm guessing it does not refer to the Starborn. In human taste, bitterness is a marker for poison. Bitter almonds is a descriptor for cyanide. Whatever it is, it must be bad cause Mother Summer gave Mother Winter the stink eye for cracking the container.
it means something, but like a lot of JB's clues, it will only make sense later.
What I am talking about is the blurb under interpretations, which isn't about changing water or anything else...
Interpretations
Certain commentators have held that this "great star" represents one of several important figures in political or ecclesiastical history,[4] while other Bible dictionaries and commentaries view the term as a reference to a celestial being. A Dictionary of The Holy Bible states, "the star called Wormwood seems to denote a mighty prince, or power of the air, the instrument, in its fall."[5]
This says it is a person, not something like bitter almonds or a marker for poison... All I am saying is this interpretation could fit with the star born idea, and actually makes more sense..
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All I am saying is this interpretation could fit with the star born idea, and actually makes more sense..
It could be.
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It could be.
Here is a wild thought. Most of us assume, including Harry I believe that the little pot labeled, Wormwood got cracked when it fell from the shelf that he bumped into. But what if that isn't what happened? While the crack has everything to do with Harry, it has nothing to do with him bumping into that shelf. What I am saying is if the theory that Harry as the starborn, is the Wormwood following the second interpretation that is a person. What if that little pot is like a bird's egg? One that because it is getting close to hatching so beginning to crack? When the BAT happens it will completely break open and Starborn Harry Wormwood Dresden will come into his own.
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I hope not. While Harry is the main character, not everything in the world has to be about him. The prophecy about the one divine prince who turns the waters bitter is more Anung Un Rama than it is Harry Dresden.
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I hope not. While Harry is the main character, not everything in the world has to be about him. The prophecy about the one divine prince who turns the waters bitter is more Anung Un Rama than it is Harry Dresden.
He is the starborn, he was conceived under special conditions for a reason... It says prince who is instrument in the fall as opposed to turning waters bitter... Of course bitter waters could be mainly metaphorical and not literal....
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There isn't enough data. It foreshadows something but it's too vague. The context suggests it is of the same grouping as the rest of the jars.
I gave thought to the idea that the fallen were the Fomor who had retreated to the sea and as such referred to some type of attack. Since Mother Winter calls Harry's attention to it, it may be saying something about Summer. As in they aren't the good guys you think they are.
Or it may be something else.
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There isn't enough data. It foreshadows something but it's too vague. The context suggests it is of the same grouping as the rest of the jars.
I gave thought to the idea that the fallen were the Fomor who had retreated to the sea and as such referred to some type of attack. Since Mother Winter calls Harry's attention to it, it may be saying something about Summer. As in they aren't the good guys you think they are.
Or it may be something else.
Yeah, actually it is Harry who picks up the pot and Mother Summer takes it from his and caresses it gently before she puts it back on the shelf. I agree that we don't have enough information, and I maybe merely imagining things, but that interpretation plus Harry being a star born, the BAT, Mother Summer's way of handling a pot, but I think there are some dots to connect even if it is still vague.
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I dunno, I am mostly in favour of Wormwood just being a horrible disease. Not all that is bright is good (White Court, anyone?), and I can totally understand disease being in Mother Summer's province.
Mind, this is a very straightforward interpretation, so it is a bit surprising attention is paid to it in the book, but maybe it was there to emphasise that while Winter is harsh compared to Summer, it may not be any more or less evil/deadly.
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I dunno, I am mostly in favour of Wormwood just being a horrible disease. Not all that is bright is good (White Court, anyone?), and I can totally understand disease being in Mother Summer's province.
Mind, this is a very straightforward interpretation, so it is a bit surprising attention is paid to it in the book, but maybe it was there to emphasise that while Winter is harsh compared to Summer, it may not be any more or less evil/deadly.
There is plenty of nasty deadly weather in the summer, hurricanes, heat, drought, tornadoes, floods.. We just don't think of summer in those terms usually. However wormwood isn't a disease, where as the other labels clearly were.
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There is plenty of nasty deadly weather in the summer, hurricanes, heat, drought, tornadoes, floods.. We just don't think of summer in those terms usually. However wormwood isn't a disease, where as the other labels clearly were.
Or maybe there is a disease called Wormwood in the Dresdenverse, sometime in the future.
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... maybe it was there to emphasise that while Winter is harsh compared to Summer, it may not be any more or less evil/deadly.
Which is a theme brought up continually since Summer Knight.
"[If Summer wins, it could] set off an era of rampant growth."
"That last one doesn't sound so bad."
"No. Not if you're an Ebola virus. You'll have lots of friends."
Chapter 10
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In the Bible, the book of Revelation tells of a star named Wormwood that plummets to Earth and turns a third of the rivers and fountains of waters bitter.
Just a guess, but I think that if there was a supernatural nation that lived and spent most of it's time underewater, cough, cough the Fomor, Wormwood wouldn't be very nice for their home. Just as it has been speculated that Nicodemus has a dooms day, scorched earth strategy to deal with the Outsiders, perhaps Summer has a doomsday startegy to deal with the Fomor.
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Just a guess, but I think that if there was a supernatural nation that lived and spent most of it's time underewater, cough, cough the Fomor, Wormwood wouldn't be very nice for their home. Just as it has been speculated that Nicodemus has a dooms day, scorched earth strategy to deal with the Outsiders, perhaps Summer has a doomsday startegy to deal with the Fomor.
Drought supposedly knows no season, but seems worse with the heat of summer. Drought can dry up whole lakes..