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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Mira on July 16, 2020, 01:43:26 AM

Title: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Mira on July 16, 2020, 01:43:26 AM


   Wouldn't be the first time would it?   Finally the book arrived around one this afternoon..  I began
reading, why is it when you want peace and to be left alone, it doesn't happen?

Anyway, I haven't gotten too far, but a thought occurred to me as Harry gazed at his mangled brother.
What if his assumptions were wrong?  What if
(click to show/hide)

After I've finished this book, need to go back and check out names that are even remotely close, who do they belong to?  It could be very important in how this all comes out.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: forumghost on July 16, 2020, 01:49:23 AM
Quite frankly I feel like the real twist would be if Harry's assumptions were actually on the money for a change.

Yeah, I'm 99% certain that Thomas was actually trying to tell his dimwit brother something super important and he just couldn't understand because apparently the svartalfs were either too dumb to keep the assassin in a state where they could make him talk about his employer, or didn't want him to talk about them.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: SpacedCowboy on July 16, 2020, 02:28:41 AM
It’d be quite the twist if Justin comes back, Ded or not.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: BrianC on July 16, 2020, 02:33:50 AM
Ive been racking my brain to try and figure out who of Harrys enemies has a name that starts with J
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Grifter on July 16, 2020, 02:48:51 AM
Well let's reason this Justin thing out, as I think it would require a lot of assumptions. 

1) Justin was a contemporary of Margaret's.  He might have visited and Thomas could have seen him, but he would have been young.  Depending on if DuMorne still had contact with Raith after Margaret left, Thomas could have easily been old enough to know him.

2) We also have to assume that Thomas never mentioned to Harry that he knew his abusive adoptive father, because that kind of info would have been shared with the reader as foreshadowing.

4) We have to assume Justin is good enough to enthral Thomas. We know he has experience with it, as he did it to Justine.  And Thomas seemed to be weak, so maybe he would be susceptible. We could alternately assume he blackmailed him or something, but Thomas just going with that seems unlikely.

4) We have to assume that DuMorne would expose himself to Thomas in the process, rather than keeping his identity hidden under a cowl or something. 

5) We have to assume the payoff would be worth revealing himself and revealing he was still alive.  I could see where Thomas dying in the attempt might be a safe assumption, but it seems awfully risky, because there are a ton of people in town that would be able to examine Thomas and see that he was manipulated.

Ive been racking my brain to try and figure out who of Harrys enemies has a name that starts with J
Not many.  I was looking earlier.  Really just Justin, or the Jade Court (doesn't seem like something an isolationist faction would do, unless Nemfected?), or the Genowska (sounds like J to start with), or Jenny Greenteeth (dead but maybe not?).
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Bad Alias on July 16, 2020, 08:41:55 PM

   Wouldn't be the first time would it?   Finally the book arrived around one this afternoon..  I began
reading, why is it when you want peace and to be left alone, it doesn't happen?

Anyway, I haven't gotten too far, but a thought occurred to me as Harry gazed at his mangled brother.
What if his assumptions were wrong?  What if
(click to show/hide)

After I've finished this book, need to go back and check out names that are even remotely close, who do they belong to?  It could be very important in how this all comes out.
I think either you're right or he was warning Harry about Justine, not asking Harry to protect her.

4) We have to assume Justin is good enough to enthral Thomas. We know he has experience with it, as he did it to Justine.
Do you mean Justin enthralled Elaine?

Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Grifter on July 16, 2020, 09:02:10 PM
Do you mean Justin enthralled Elaine?
Oops, yup.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Mira on July 16, 2020, 09:18:36 PM
Quote
Quote from: BrianC on Today at 02:33:50 AM

    Ive been racking my brain to try and figure out who of Harrys enemies has a name that starts with J

Not many.  I was looking earlier.  Really just Justin, or the Jade Court (doesn't seem like something an isolationist faction would do, unless Nemfected?), or the Genowska (sounds like J to start with), or Jenny Greenteeth (dead but maybe not?).


   True, but he also threw in an   "S" 
Quote
"Junghg.S'Jnngh.

  There is no "S" in Justine's name.  What happened to Skavis?  He was in White Night, have to go back and check out Blood Rites as well.  There are also assorted Outsiders that might have a name close to how that sounds. 

Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Second Aristh on July 16, 2020, 09:21:39 PM
There is quite literally an "s" in Justine.  ???
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Mira on July 16, 2020, 09:28:26 PM
There is quite literally an "s" in Justine.  ???

But it doesn't begin with "s" does it?  S'Junngh?  Does that even remotely sound like Justine? More
like Sungh or something similar.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Grifter on July 16, 2020, 09:34:19 PM
But it doesn't begin with "s" does it?  S'Junngh?  Does that even remotely sound like Justine? More
like Sungh or something similar.
The "S'" might have been a slur.  Or he might have segmented the name into two exhalations because he couldn't speak "Juh. Stine"

Or he was trying to say another name.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Second Aristh on July 16, 2020, 09:35:52 PM
Yeah, I think it's probably relevant that Thomas couldn't speak, but I don't think we can divine anything particular from his slurring attempts.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: ClintACK on July 17, 2020, 12:14:36 AM
Re: "Junghg. S'Jnngh."

I translated this as: "Justine. It's Justine."
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Mira on July 17, 2020, 01:15:51 AM
Re: "Junghg. S'Jnngh."

I translated this as: "Justine. It's Justine."

I think it is way too obvious... 
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Grifter on July 17, 2020, 01:40:02 AM
Re: "Junghg. S'Jnngh."
Or... Just off the cuff...

"Jotun. It's Jotun." Or "Giant. It's Giant."

Maybe Thomas found out about Ethniu via overhearing a plot against Etri, and rushed to warn him, and didn't make it in time and ended up in a misunderstanding.

As to how, maybe he noticed the footprint in the sand, too, and didn't just ignore it like Harry did.  Maybe he investigated after the Eb encounter, and then didn't have time to contact Harry before the attack was going to commence.

(As for Ethniu not actually being a Jotun, it seems like Butcher might be equating Titans, Fomor, and Jotun as giants)
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on July 17, 2020, 02:18:58 AM
How about something as simple as "giant."  With the slurring of words it make sense, especially if If Thomas didn't know what it was he might have gone with a simple description.  In that case it could be anything that's really big.

Personally, I don't trust Justine.  She was way more capable in the short story Even Hand than we've ever seen her in the books and there's never been a reasonable explanation how she became steady minded.  In Grave Peril, Justine revealed that being with Thomas barely kept her sane, but somehow after almost being killed by Thomas she made a more than full recovery and eventually became the Raith office manager and after that a double agent working for both Lara and Harry.  As Harry's spy she just collects information, but we know from Even Hand that she has done field work for Lara, and done it well.  It's like Jim expects us to ignore Justine because Harry sees her as both incredibly sexy but also very sweet and; not innocent exactly, but something nice and maybe just a little too good to be true.   
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Vairelome on July 17, 2020, 02:30:03 AM
I think the Thomas + Justine True Love goes a fair way to defending her character, particularly from the angle of being loyal to Thomas.

That said, I've yet to see a theory that resolves the "why exactly did Thomas attack Etri?" question satisfactorily.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Grifter on July 17, 2020, 02:44:26 AM
How about something as simple as "giant."  With the slurring of words it make sense, especially if If Thomas didn't know what it was he might have gone with a simple description.  In that case it could be anything that's really big.

Personally, I don't trust Justine.  She was way more capable in the short story Even Hand than we've ever seen her in the books and there's never been a reasonable explanation how she became steady minded.  In Grave Peril, Justine revealed that being with Thomas barely kept her sane, but somehow after almost being killed by Thomas she made a more than full recovery and eventually became the Raith office manager and after that a double agent working for both Lara and Harry.  As Harry's spy she just collects information, but we know from Even Hand that she has done field work for Lara, and done it well.  It's like Jim expects us to ignore Justine because Harry sees her as both incredibly sexy but also very sweet and; not innocent exactly, but something nice and maybe just a little too good to be true.
Giant seems more likely than Jotun.  But "Gi" sounds different from "Ju".  "Jn" is closer.

As for suspecting Justine, Cold Days left me with the impression that Nemesis/Maeve was interested in her but not that she was already infected.  Unless she was, and somehow suppressed it, and they were curious. 

I think the Thomas + Justine True Love goes a fair way to defending her character, particularly from the angle of being loyal to Thomas.

That said, I've yet to see a theory that resolves the "why exactly did Thomas attack Etri?" question satisfactorily.
1) He wasn't, he was trying to warn him and got interrupted and blamed by the bad guy.
2) He was enthralled by someone and only snapped out of it after the mission.

Either one would probably revolve around Evanna, with him visiting her after the Eb talk to feed, and either being enthralled by her or an ally, or him happening across info or overhearing a conversation and decided to get to Etri by setting the explosives to distract the guards. 
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: ClintACK on July 17, 2020, 02:53:47 AM
I like "Jotun."

However it does seem like Thomas relaxes when Harry says he'll take care of 'her' -- he doesn't mention Justine, so perhaps it's possible Thomas thought he meant Ethniu, but that seems like a stretch.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: morriswalters on July 17, 2020, 03:00:05 AM
The garble could be translated to 'save Justine'. Thomas could be the source of the leaks as well.  A threat to Justine would be sufficient if it were potent enough.

The attacks look like someone is plotting against Lara.  You have Eb suddenly going on about the Vamps.  Thomas attacking the Swartelves, a leaker from Lara's court.  Could this be Eb taking revenge on the Raith's? Or maybe Marcone is plotting a take down his primary supernatural rival in Chicago. Or is some Government Agency taking a hand?

And you have Thomas not feeding and the comparison of what is happening to him compared to Papa Raith.  What if Thomas can't feed? What if someone has figured out Margaret's death curse and has cast it on Thomas and used the baby to bind it.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Vanderboom on July 17, 2020, 03:26:35 AM

   Wouldn't be the first time would it?   Finally the book arrived around one this afternoon..  I began
reading, why is it when you want peace and to be left alone, it doesn't happen?

Anyway, I haven't gotten too far, but a thought occurred to me as Harry gazed at his mangled brother.
What if his assumptions were wrong?  What if
(click to show/hide)

After I've finished this book, need to go back and check out names that are even remotely close, who do they belong to?  It could be very important in how this all comes out.

I'm speculating that it's Genoskwa. The Genoskwa seems similar to the Skywalker in terms of peer and maliciousness; it could have similarly tortured Thomas using the Hunger.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: ClintACK on July 17, 2020, 03:46:15 AM
Thomas is still able to feed -- see Lara feeding him energy in the boat at the end.

It's just that Thomas was beaten until his Hunger stopped healing the damage, because it was out of energy. It's like what the Naagloshi did to Thomas in Turn Coat, but without the delicate balance.

The attacks look like someone is plotting against Lara.  You have Eb suddenly going on about the Vamps.  Thomas attacking the Swartelves, a leaker from Lara's court.  Could this be Eb taking revenge on the Raith's? Or maybe Marcone is plotting a take down his primary supernatural rival in Chicago.

That's an interesting thought. Add to that -- Lara's great victory was getting Thomas moved to Marcone's stronghold, where it turned out there was a glaring opening in his defenses. If this was his plot, you know he's got lots of video of Lara and Dresden breaking Thomas out.

I'm not sure how he'd provide what Thomas needs, though. He might be able to buy help with that from Odin, but why wouldn't Thomas be able to just buy that himself?
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Bad Alias on July 17, 2020, 04:21:41 AM
Thomas could be the source of the leaks as well.  A threat to Justine would be sufficient if it were potent enough.
Solid point.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: morriswalters on July 17, 2020, 12:17:33 PM
Yeah, I'm on my second reread and I missed Lara feeding him. Iteration two is that there are two Justine's.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Mira on July 17, 2020, 01:08:29 PM
Yeah, I'm on my second reread and I missed Lara feeding him. Iteration two is that there are two Justine's.

   Maybe it will come out in the second reading, but I'd like to have seen Harry go into motives for what Thomas did. 
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: morriswalters on July 17, 2020, 02:13:47 PM
My initial assumption is that Thomas did what he did to protect Justine, but that Jim intends for the character in the cell next to Thomas to provide a cure for Thomas.  Or for the cell to do it.  The idea of the cell making the prisoner understand the harm he has done is a redemptive measure.  Thomas is a serial killer. He needs redemption.

For motivation, if Mab and Harry can take revenge on the Reds it isn't a stretch for the BC to try and take revenge on the Whites.  The whole idea of White Knight was to destroy the Raith faction and those aligned with him.

In any case this could all be a function of my over active imagination. 
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: edf on July 17, 2020, 02:14:40 PM
Here's a crazy theory.... Eb is responsible for Thomas attacking.  He decided it was time to get this whamp out of Harry's life.  This helps explain why Eb was checking up at Justine's and later freaked out and tried to kill Thomas at the Waterbeetle.   It's not rational, but it somewhat fits why Eb was so personally invested.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Grifter on July 17, 2020, 02:24:27 PM
My reluctance to think Eb is involved is because him arranging a hit on an accorded nation's leader, who is currently allied against a common foe, right before a very much needed peace summit where he wouldn't want to risk peace failing because of his meddling, seems unlikely.  Not without him having intentions of ruining things, which also seems out of character.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Vairelome on July 17, 2020, 03:42:28 PM
My reluctance to think Eb is involved is because him arranging a hit on an accorded nation's leader, who is currently allied against a common foe, right before a very much needed peace summit where he wouldn't want to risk peace failing because of his meddling, seems unlikely.  Not without him having intentions of ruining things, which also seems out of character.

Yeah, I think the most plausible way that the Eb-mastermind theory works is the target isn't Etri specifically but the removal of Thomas, with the additional likely blowback landing on Lara/the Raiths.  It sort of fits (and Eb's extreme reaction later to learning that Thomas is his grandson makes more sense with this guilt-motive added), but I'm still not convinced.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: edf on July 17, 2020, 04:32:59 PM
Obviously, Thomas would need to get caught in the act of a semi-convincing attempt, but success wasn't necessary.

Eb was just around too much, acting too emotionally invested, and completely irrational towards Thomas for something not to be going on there.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on July 17, 2020, 05:14:49 PM
Thomas is still able to feed -- see Lara feeding him energy in the boat at the end.

It's just that Thomas was beaten until his Hunger stopped healing the damage, because it was out of energy. It's like what the Naagloshi did to Thomas in Turn Coat, but without the delicate balance.

If Thomas had that love protection thing going from being with Justine he wouldn't have been able to feed and Lara would have been burned from just touching Thomas.  So we must draw the conclusion that either Jim made a mistake in letting Thomas feed energy from Lara, and I don't think Jim would make that obvious a mistake, or there is another explanation.  (If nothing else, several of Jim's BETA readers would have caught that error and pointed it out.) 

The other and more natural explanation is Thomas did go to feed his hunger, just as Harry recommended.  And where could Thomas go to feed in manner that would not cause harm to his partner?  To one of the ladies in the swarthalf court, most likely Evanna.  We haven't really met any other swarthalf ladies, so Evanna makes the most sense.

This would mean that Evanna lied to Harry and she's wrapped up in the conspiracy to kill Etri, probably  I'm not sure this entirely rules out Ebenezer's possible involvement.  Theoretically, with the use of the Blackstaff, Ebenezer could have put a mind whammy on both Thomas and Evanna.  What was the necessity for Eb to break through the Swarthalf defenses when he went to visit Harry?  Was Ebenezer really that annoyed by having to follow their protocols?  I didn't believe Eb would have to wait days to see Harry.  Eb could have sent a message to see Harry and met him a neutral location like Mac's.  So perhaps breaking the Swarthalf defenses allowed Ebenezer to get a close look at what he would be up against in order to more covertly penetrate their inner sanctums.  It's a bit of a stretch, but not an impossible one.   



That's an interesting thought. Add to that -- Lara's great victory was getting Thomas moved to Marcone's stronghold, where it turned out there was a glaring opening in his defenses. If this was his plot, you know he's got lots of video of Lara and Dresden breaking Thomas out.

I'm not sure how he'd provide what Thomas needs, though. He might be able to buy help with that from Odin, but why wouldn't Thomas be able to just buy that himself?

Aren't we missing something here?  Lara gets Harry's temporary service in which he must fulfill two favors for her.  When Nicodemus got Mab to loan him Harry, Nic had specific uses in mind for Harry; opening a way to Hades vault and getting through the Gate of Ice.  Lara never gave a hint that she needed Harry for any specific purpose.  Using Harry to get an introduction to Cristos seemed to me like a really minor use of one of her favors, but even if it was necessary it should have come at the expense of something else.  Using Harry to rescue Thomas was a necessity, but it still should have futzed up her original plans, assuming she had any.  Yet Lara never complained or even mentioned that some scheme she was working on had been derailed by Thomas' actions.  It's like Lara knew she would need Harry to rescue Thomas.

I hate to say this, but it's kinda weak writing.  If Lara set this up, even Harry should quickly be able to see through something so transparent.  If Lara didn't set up this situation, it's still not good because she should have been annoyed that Thomas upset her original plans.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Mira on July 17, 2020, 05:23:49 PM
Quote
Aren't we missing something here?  Lara gets Harry's temporary service in which he must fulfill two favors for her.  When Nicodemus got Mab to loan him Harry, Nic had specific uses in mind for Harry; opening a way to Hades vault and getting through the Gate of Ice.  Lara never gave a hint that she needed Harry for any specific purpose.  Using Harry to get an introduction to Cristos seemed to me like a really minor use of one of her favors, but even if it was necessary it should have come at the expense of something else.  Using Harry to rescue Thomas was a necessity, but it still should have futzed up her original plans, assuming she had any.  Yet Lara never complained or even mentioned that some scheme she was working on had been derailed by Thomas' actions.  It's like Lara knew she would need Harry to rescue Thomas.

I hate to say this, but it's kinda weak writing.  If Lara set this up, even Harry should quickly be able to see through something so transparent.  If Lara didn't set up this situation, it's still not good because she should have been annoyed that Thomas upset her original plans.

Yes,  I am beginning to feel that.. 
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Grifter on July 17, 2020, 06:05:47 PM
It seems likely that Lara already knew of Thomas's capture when she and Mab talked with Harry.  They finalized the deal at the end of chapter six, and then a page later Harry arrives back at the complex to find it on fire.

Seems more likely that Lara's contacts told her about Thomas, she summoned Mab and asked to use the favors, Mab transported her to Harry's car where they informed him.  Then Lara just didn't tell Harry what it was about at the time.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: morriswalters on July 17, 2020, 06:41:30 PM
No love protection for Thomas per Ghost Story.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: ClintACK on July 17, 2020, 07:37:32 PM
Wait... was the introduction to Christos supposed to be one of the favors?

I thought only the breakout attempt was an official favor, and Lara still has one of those in the bank. (Which is particularly disturbing when you realize how furious she is at Harry right at the moment...)

Re: Thomas's love protection...

Thomas's true love with Justine should only protect him (and Justine) from being fed upon, it shouldn't stop him from feeding (except on Justine). And he only has the protection at all if Justine was his most recent lover -- every time he sleeps with a Svartalf, for example, he loses the protection.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: morriswalters on July 17, 2020, 07:57:06 PM
Actually I should have said no true love protection for Justine.  Lara never would have been at risk of burning. And should have called it true monogamy.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Grifter on July 17, 2020, 07:57:59 PM
Wait... was the introduction to Christos supposed to be one of the favors?

I thought only the breakout attempt was an official favor, and Lara still has one of those in the bank. (Which is particularly disturbing when you realize how furious she is at Harry right at the moment...)
It's implied in the book that it's one of the favors.  Lara just sucks at picking her favors.  She probably could have easily persuaded Harry to introduce her *and* rescue Thomas without using a favor on either.

Presumably her favors are spent, because if she still had them, she could have ordered him to release Thomas in those first moments on Demonreach and he would have been forced to comply by the mantle.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Second Aristh on July 17, 2020, 08:06:30 PM
Could she have asked that favor, though?  Mab doesn't have that kind of authority over Harry's Warden hat.

Also, Mab says that Lara earned three favors but she already provided one.  Any ideas about the first favor?  My first thought was the wards on the Raith estate.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Bad Alias on July 17, 2020, 08:22:06 PM
That was my first thought as well, but I thing Gard the Second did that.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Grifter on July 17, 2020, 08:23:05 PM
Could she have asked that favor, though?  Mab doesn't have that kind of authority over Harry's Warden hat.

Also, Mab says that Lara earned three favors but she already provided one.  Any ideas about the first favor?  My first thought was the wards on the Raith estate.
Seems possible. There's been no other suggestion as to how Lara would have had it done. I was wondering if maybe we'd be seeing Lara take a turn to the Dark Side and start dealing with Outsiders like her father, but it would appear that she's going with Mab instead.

That was my first thought as well, but I thing Gard the Second did that.
That's a good possibility as well.
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Second Aristh on July 17, 2020, 08:38:53 PM
That was my first thought as well, but I thing Gard the Second did that.
Yeah, one or the other for sure.  I thought it might have been a lot for one valkyrie to get through in the time since TC (although, on second thought, Shagnasty might have been an impetus to get that project started).
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Hagbard Celine on July 19, 2020, 06:13:41 AM

One more thing in the "Eb set up Thomas" theory, is that Eb already demonstrated that he could get into the Embassy unannounced.  Would he be petty enough to remove Thomas from Harry in that fashion?  He clearly has an irrational grudge towards the Whampires.  There are just far too many possibilities at this point.  Heck, Goodman Grey could have impersonated Thomas and they could have just left the battered body there in the aftermath.  Who knows. 

Re-reading the opening chapters with Thomas, he really seems pensive, but I can't tell if it's because he's already gotten his "orders" or whether he's just off balance because of the whole Justine thing. 

I also am in the camp that thinks that Thomas isn't really saying Justine, but I have no idea whose name he could be saying. 
Title: Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
Post by: Mira on July 19, 2020, 07:26:25 PM
Quote
Seems possible. There's been no other suggestion as to how Lara would have had it done. I was wondering if maybe we'd be seeing Lara take a turn to the Dark Side and start dealing with Outsiders like her father, but it would appear that she's going with Mab instead.

   Very possible, but I want to know why out of the blue suddenly she goes to Mab to demand payment for favors? She was getting an insurance policy to cover her lovely ass.  She set it up, but who ever she set it up with double crossed her so Thomas would take the hit.  It isn't just love for her brother that drives her, but guilt.