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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: WereElephant on April 19, 2018, 05:45:53 PM
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To the point: will Mab die in Peace Talks?
I've seen some posts here and on reddit recently that suggest Peace Talks is where things will really start falling apart in terms of magical world order. Nothing quote worthy, but it's making me wonder what events would cause absolute devastation (not decimation) on world stability. One of them would be Mab's death as a result of a Fomor plot. A new and inexperienced Winter Queen would appear (Molly), and we'd get a new Winter Lady (unknown). It would also be an utterly crushing blow to the image of Winter, and embolden every element who despise them.
Truthfully, I hope it doesn't happen. Partly because it seems too soon after Cold Days, and partly because I like Mab. Cold, ruthless, calculating, and relentless, while serving roles of both ally and menace to our protagonist. She also has an admirable track record of successful plans hatched. However, my preferences aside, it would really tear things up.
Thoughts?
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Die? I don't really think so. If this was the last book before the BAT I'd say it's much more likely but there will be Mirror Mirror, and then the Wrestling book which I think will have Mab in it because of the nature of the book.
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Die? I don't really think so. If this was the last book before the BAT I'd say it's much more likely but there will be Mirror Mirror, and then the Wrestling book which I think will have Mab in it because of the nature of the book.
I'm only just hearing about a Wrestling book. Is this from a recent interview or something?
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I'm only just hearing about a Wrestling book. Is this from a recent interview or something?
It's been known for a while. There are gods (Greek pantheon I think) that are still around but instead of getting power from worship they get it from fans as pro wrestlers. They have taken notice of Dresden for knocking over Ares shed (Must mean Hades vault, but it's what Jim said). Don't know much more than that.
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Vote me in on that she lives. Killing Fairy Queens(Ladies) has happened a lot.
EDIT:
I know he couldn't be because he was already passed over in Cold Days (cup not big enough or being a guy) but could you imagine Jim's delight about Harry becoming the Winter Lady.
Cold Case (Molly WL POV) Spoiler
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Vote me in on that she lives. Killing Fairy Queens(Ladies) has happened a lot.
EDIT:
I know he couldn't be because he was already passed over in Cold Days (cup not big enough or being a guy) but could you imagine Jim's delight about Harry becoming the Winter Lady.
Cold Case (Molly WL POV) Spoiler
LOL
It just occurred to me that maybe that would lessen the blow to Charity and Michael when they find out.
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It just occurred to me that maybe that would lessen the blow to Charity and Michael when they find out.
Ha! This would be a humorous scene to read.
WL Molly: Mom, Dad, I need to tell you something.
M and C share a pointed look.
WL Molly: I am the Winter Lady
M: Thank the Heavens, We thought you might be pregnant.
WL Molly: Pregnant!? No way, I can't even have sex!
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Ha! This would be a humorous scene to read.
WL Molly: Mom, Dad, I need to tell you something.
M and C share a pointed look.
WL Molly: I am the Winter Lady
M: Thank the Heavens, We thought you might be pregnant. (With Harry's love child)
WL Molly: Pregnant!? No way, I can't even have sex!
I did a minor alteration for dramatic effect.
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(With Harry's love child)
First of all, love it.
Second of all, interesting point. Is Harry under a similar limitation now as she is? Is he still capable of the act, but rendered sterile while under the Mantle?
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First of all, love it.
Second of all, interesting point. Is Harry under a similar limitation now as she is? Is he still capable of the act, but rendered sterile while under the Mantle?
Why would he be?
It's the Lady that is specifically NOT a mother. There's nothing about the Knight's fatherhood (thankfully, since, you know, Harry has kids).
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Slate was pretty much confirmed to be a rapist, yeah? I'd say that Harry is certainly capable of having sex, at the minimum.
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Why would he be?
It's the Lady that is specifically NOT a mother. There's nothing about the Knight's fatherhood (thankfully, since, you know, Harry has kids).
I haven't read the short story in question, so while I know of Molly's limitation, wasn't clear on the full details. That makes sense then.
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Has any prior WK ever fathered a child?
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Gilles de Rais had one child, Marie.
Note that most of the names we have for Winter Knights are serial killers of children.
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Well, Mab does try to recruit the worst of the worst.
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Like Harry?
Even one of Lily's cohort mentioned that Lloyd wasn't as bad as he was at the beginning. A lot (though not all) can probably be chalked up to the Mantle.
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Wasn't as bad is relative. Harry has an image by those that are familiar with the name but don't know the person as being as mad as Rasputin.
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I don't think Mab dies in Peace Talks. Her death is reserved for the BAT in my opinion. Like others have posted before me, I think Empty Night is where we see her sacrifice.
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If any of the Main Cast was slated to die in PT it'd be Murphy, since she's officially in a relationship with Dresden now, and that has not gone well for people historically. That said I'm pretty sure her Plot Armour is gonna hold up.
When Mab dies (and I'm like, 900% sure it is a when) I agree with the people that said it'll be for/around the BAT- specifically I think that it will be the thing that sets it off. Changes (the midpoint of the Series) ends with Harry's death. The last Case Book will end with Mab's as a Cliffhanger/Opener for the BAT.
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If any of the Main Cast was slated to die in PT it'd be Murphy, since she's officially in a relationship with Dresden now, and that has not gone well for people historically. That said I'm pretty sure her Plot Armour is gonna hold up.
When Mab dies (and I'm like, 900% sure it is a when) I agree with the people that said it'll be for/around the BAT- specifically I think that it will be the thing that sets it off. Changes (the midpoint of the Series) ends with Harry's death. The last Case Book will end with Mab's as a Cliffhanger/Opener for the BAT.
That would be one heck of a cliffhanger and a frustrating wait for the first book of the BAT.
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That sounds right up Butcher's alley.
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Also it'll happen in a way that makes it all Harry's fault and leaves him genuinely sad, and not just because the world is splitting at the seams.
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If any of the Main Cast was slated to die in PT it'd be Murphy, since she's officially in a relationship with Dresden now, and that has not gone well for people historically. That said I'm pretty sure her Plot Armour is gonna hold up.
I agree and disagree. Murphy being next on the chopping block feels right. It would put Harry into agony, and the leagues in which he operates now are effectively out of hers.
The problem is the function she serves as a character. She's the primary reference we as readers have for how vanilla mortals look in the world juxtaposed with everything else. Without her, and without that perspective, we lose a sense of scale and a connection to normality. I think the series needs that, so removing her would weaken the narrative. She could be replaced, though.
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We have lost alot of "vanilla mortal" connection within the last 2 or 3 books. Less case catalyst and more fae mission focus.
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My money's on Ebenezer joining the choir eternal. He's Harry's real mentor. Justin just taught Harry magic while Eb taught Harry what it means to be a wizard. So I'm looking at the basic hero's journey. At some point the hero losses the mentor and has to finish the journey on their own. Ebenezer has given Harry political cover from the Merlin and others on the Senior Council for decades and he's explained to Harry how the Council works. Harry's learned from other sources as well, but Eb gave Harry a basic understanding of the White Council's (stated) philosophy, values, and a basic understanding how it works on an everyday basis.
If I wanted to flesh this idea out a bit more, I would add Harry will once more be working for the White Council; obstensiviley, helping Warden Ramirez with security for the upcoming talks with the Fomor, but we know his role will be involuntarily expanded into more than just being a high power security guard. Also, Harry hasn't had anything to do with the Council for a couple of years, at least. The last time we saw the Council it looked like it could split apart and we have no idea if the turmoil we saw in Changes had any lasting effect. So right about now would be a good time for Harry to first be shocked by whatever changes he sees in the Council and then have the rug pulled out from under him by having the one person he could count on to always be in his corner in Council matters no longer be there for him.
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If Jim wasn't just pulling our legs a couple of years ago about writing Murphy's funeral, she could be the one to go. It would fit the pattern, love Harry and die...
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I don't think it's Murphy's time yet. If she dies at all, it'll be after we get a sense of their dating relationship for a book or two. It's too soon—both in terms of amount of story told and in-universe time between entries (Peace Talks is six months after Skin Game). She'll probably still be in physical therapy/rehab after the beating she took in Skin Game, likely sidelined and unhappy about it. If Jim does decide to kill her off, I think it'll be the event that sends Harry into self-imposed exile, like the beginning of Summer Knight, but, you know, full retirement. I'm talking last Case File book. Harry's called out of retirement for the BAT. That's my guess, anyway.
Narratively speaking, I could say Ebenezer will bite it, but after he delivers ten to fifteen pages of crucial exposition. Background information on the Council, the Outsiders, Justin—whatever will push the metanarrative forward into the next cycle of books.
Personally, I think that Ebenezer will die at Ground Zero, surrounded by hundreds of charred corpses. Hmm. That could work for Peace Talks, actually. Harry could get sucked into the alternate timeline right at that moment, saving his life (and also making sure he doesn't have to hang around for the cleanup).