1
DFRPG / Ambush out of a veil. Do you allow it? How do you do it?
« on: June 13, 2011, 10:34:46 AM »
Hello everybody.
Today I'd like to get a little debate going about the question of ambushes out of veils. During our last gaming session the winter knight in my game decided to veil himself and do a magical attack (could have been a maneuver my memory is a little fuzzy) onto two mortals that where guarding a train. He stated that since he was veiled and sneaky the ambush rules should apply.
In that situation I wasn't sure how to react. On the one side I can see some validity in the statement of my player. The concepts of veils and ambushes are reasonably comparable, yet the idea of ambush rules out of veils can lead to some pretty nasty rule breaking / power gaming. Imagine: It's relatively easy to create a powerful veil around your self. I won't go into detail on this, because I believe that by now we all understand the magic rules good enough to acknowledge this as true. The power of the veil makes it pretty much impossible for mortals and low to mid-level supernatural baddies to break it. Not only is the wizard able to carry his ambush around with him (since veils aren't stationary as common ambushes usually are) he is also able to cast a powerful magical attack from out under it that, if ambush rules apply and the ambush/veil isn't discovered is apposed only by mediocre skill-levels. The extra shifts that can come out of this are ... well ... potentially insane.
As I didn't want to create a precedent at my table I didn't allow the combination of veils and ambush rules at that point, but neither me nor my players where really happy with it. I'm curious on what other GM think about this and if similar situations have come up elsewhere.
My only idea so far is to make the ambush rules still apply in some form. For example the stealth role could still apply to set up the ambush. Since setting an ambush has lots to do with good positioning and terrain abuse this makes some sense to me. But how to do it? You could make the stealth roll aided by the power of the veil. You could do it the other way around and modify the discipline role for the veil by the stealth skill. It all seems clumsy to me.
Input please!
Today I'd like to get a little debate going about the question of ambushes out of veils. During our last gaming session the winter knight in my game decided to veil himself and do a magical attack (could have been a maneuver my memory is a little fuzzy) onto two mortals that where guarding a train. He stated that since he was veiled and sneaky the ambush rules should apply.
In that situation I wasn't sure how to react. On the one side I can see some validity in the statement of my player. The concepts of veils and ambushes are reasonably comparable, yet the idea of ambush rules out of veils can lead to some pretty nasty rule breaking / power gaming. Imagine: It's relatively easy to create a powerful veil around your self. I won't go into detail on this, because I believe that by now we all understand the magic rules good enough to acknowledge this as true. The power of the veil makes it pretty much impossible for mortals and low to mid-level supernatural baddies to break it. Not only is the wizard able to carry his ambush around with him (since veils aren't stationary as common ambushes usually are) he is also able to cast a powerful magical attack from out under it that, if ambush rules apply and the ambush/veil isn't discovered is apposed only by mediocre skill-levels. The extra shifts that can come out of this are ... well ... potentially insane.
As I didn't want to create a precedent at my table I didn't allow the combination of veils and ambush rules at that point, but neither me nor my players where really happy with it. I'm curious on what other GM think about this and if similar situations have come up elsewhere.
My only idea so far is to make the ambush rules still apply in some form. For example the stealth role could still apply to set up the ambush. Since setting an ambush has lots to do with good positioning and terrain abuse this makes some sense to me. But how to do it? You could make the stealth roll aided by the power of the veil. You could do it the other way around and modify the discipline role for the veil by the stealth skill. It all seems clumsy to me.
Input please!