Susan coming back as a full on Red Court vamp could be interesting.
#1. The Red Court could make a return with her as it's Queen.
#2. She could go after Harry's daughter when she's older, causing problems for Harry and a daughter who wants to be with her mother (or her Red vamp virtual clone)
#3. Red Court vamp Susan being a big player in the BAT.
While I like the idea of seeing Evil Suzie, I've kinda been hoping that we're done with the Red Court. They served as either the main villainous force or the backdrop villainous force for ten books. There's been enough buildup with the Fomor that I'm looking forward to getting some weirder, more Lovecraftian antagonists going forward.Supposedly the point of Divergence between the Main storyline and the MirrorMirrorVerse happened somewhere in Grave Peril, so I doubt we'd be able to escape some Red Court involvement in it (unless wiping out the race is something the two dresdens have in common)
I wouldn't be opposed to bringing Evil Susan back closer to the BAT, and maybe serving as part of the Evil Team of Evil in that trilogy, of course. I'd be good with that. Just not the whole Red Court, I hope.
And Groinkick, you're right about the split loyalties; (SPOILER FOR A MAJOR VAMPIRE SERIES THAT JUST ENDED) I hope it'd be handled in a less annoying way (the above felt so contrived and stupid, because those vampires are real monsters; think Red Court without their flesh masks).
Susan as full on Rampire would be interesting. But as Queen? I don't see that happening. One of the very youngest of Rampires getting that position? Hard to imagine.
To be honest, the only character who I really think there’s a chance, thematically, of coming back with Dresden is Molly. She’s been the only character who we’ve repeatedly seen tied to multiple potential futures; the reader has already been trained to think of her as having a number of different potential futures, and it seems fairly clear to me that she’ll feature prominently in Mirror Mirror, judging from Dresden’s dream sequence in Skin Games.
But for Molly 2 to come over, it wouldn’t be because the first Molly died in Peace Talks. No; Winter Lady Molly’s death would be a slow, metaphoric one; a death of the old self as she slowly but surely succumbs to have her personality and soul overwritten by the power of Winter, until she’s nothing but a cruel, sadistic shell of her former self. Alternate Molly then serves as a counterpoint: this is what I could have been, Harry, if you had only chosen differently.
It would probably cause Harry a lot of pain to see that, so in that sense it makes sense.
Bonus point if MirrorMolly convinces WinterMolly to ultimately return to the light (but, given all she's done, only in a heroic sacrifice) - we've heard consistently how the Knights of the Cross try to save souls, and Harry tries to let demi-villains like Asscher walk away - but only Sanja in the backstory seems to have truely done it. So we need an on-stage soul-save :)
do you think if he hands it to Harry then Harry will be obligated to return it to Mother Winter?
could you imagine the deal he could get out of Mother Winter if he offered to trade it back to her.
could you imagine the deal he could get out of Mother Winter if he offered to trade it back to her.
I said "The Red Court could make a return with her as it's Queen." I meant that in Harry's realm if Susan returned with him she could restart the Red Court. She would be the oldest since she'd be the first of the new Red Court. With everyone's focus being on the Fomor she'd be able to turn a lot of people into Red Court vamps without being noticed.Except that apparently there has to be something done for Rampires to be able to turn them. Bianca's ceremony wasn't purely ceremonial. So again, issues of the youngest Rampire come back.
Except that apparently there has to be something done for Rampires to be able to turn them. Bianca's ceremony wasn't purely ceremonial. So again, issues of the youngest Rampire come back.
Most would assume Harry as next Blackstaff; but, a better spin would be for Carlos to get it.
If Susan was turned in the alternate timeline, by the time of Mirror Mirror she'd have been a full vamp for how long? 10 years? 15? Susan could be a powerful vamp in that period of time depending on how ambitious she was, and how often she fed. Bianca's ceremony was her being elevated in status, nothing to do with turning anyone to a vamp. I doubt that after that period of time Susan would have any difficulty turning anyone.Jim said that there WAS something to do with turning someone into a vampire. That Ortega was there in order to do something. He didn't specify what, but there's some kind of difference it makes. Admittedly, I can't find the exact quote, but hopefully someone else can at least confirm it exists.
Bianca’s promotion to the nobility was both a legal one and a metaphysical one—that’s why Duke Ortega was there: to let her taste of his blood, giving her the power and the authority to make new spawn.
Jim said that there WAS something to do with turning someone into a vampire. That Ortega was there in order to do something. He didn't specify what, but there's some kind of difference it makes. Admittedly, I can't find the exact quote, but hopefully someone else can at least confirm it exists.
Update: Turns out I was thinking of something from the RPG, which is as canon as you want it to be.
Mother issues and the women that sons date. Alot could be said there. Similarly, much could be said about father issues and the men that daughters date.
There was a WOJ at one point, which I cannot find atm, that confirmed that there is a supernatural element to a Red's promotion to Nobility and that the ability to create new Ramps is tied to that, so for example Bianca was able to make new Ramps, but full-ramp susan would not have been able. I remember it because it entire destroyed the vampirism theories I had at the time.
Would that then kill the Red Court resurrection theories if the Ebb's weren't nobles? Or were they? I cannot remember if they were trying to turn Harry in Changes or if they wanted to take him to Adrianna.I think (but do not know) they were high enough up in the ranks to likely qualify. But they also seemed to be specialists to a certain extent, so they might have operated outside that part of the Court.
Either way it doesnt kill the notion entirely: the Eebs are by no means the only Red Court Vampires to ever be imprisoned in the NN, they are simply the example we know of. Any Vampire held deep enough and/or locked down in the NN had a chance to survive
How about a Ramp imprisoned on everyone's favorite island in Lake Michigan?Hard to say...Demonreach is still technically on Earth as far as we know, transdimensional nature not-withstanding. If anywhere on Earth could block such an attack it would have been Demonreach, but that attack was specifically chosen because it could break through some of the most powerful defenses on the planet, namely those around the Senior Council at Edinburgh
Hard to say...Demonreach is still technically on Earth as far as we know, transdimensional nature not-withstanding. If anywhere on Earth could block such an attack it would have been Demonreach, but that attack was specifically chosen because it could break through some of the most powerful defenses on the planet, namely those around the Senior Council at Edinburgh
True. Although, it is believed that if Cowl had succeeded with the Darkhallow, he could have bulldozed Edinburgh. Based on Shagnasty and the Fae ladies having trouble with Demonreach, do we think he could have gotten through those defenses too? I'm unsure of the relative power levels of the two. Both are obviously prodigious, but are they both castles, or is one a castle and the other Minas Tirith?We have one really nice if slightly outdated list of things we'd seen that could take Mab in a standing fight (not counting courtly assistance) and a Darkhallow-empowered Cowl is specifically on that list, so he'd be at least an order of magnitude stronger than a Lady.
Couple of points Q ...Fair Point. Harry said everything within a mile which Im taking as a radius, or 3.14 sq. mi. At a population Density of 11,898.29/sq mi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago). So that puts a rough number required for a Mab-beating Darkhallow at a bit shy of 40,000. I know the reds had something of a stranglehold on South American, I honestly dont know if they'd be able to transport and Disappear that many people or not.
The DH in DB would only have taken out 2 or 3 square miles of life. I know, that's still a lot, but not the entire population of Chicago.
One theory that I believe to be true is that Cowl was seeking the power to fulfill a deal with the Reds, that when he got the power he'd break through the wards at the Wouncil's headquarters.Harry's theory, so I give it a good deal of weight, though I guess he can still be wrong.
Now that's not to say that him with the power wouldn't be like hitting a fly with a sledgehammer, but I'm not so sure he'd be THAT much more powerful.The comparison Im more looking at is that Cowl(DH)>Mab, and after CD Im convinced that Mab couldnt pop Demonreach.
Another theory was that the blood sacrifices were empowering a spell that COULD punch through the wards.
Again, all that being said, I believe that DR is FAR more impregnable than Edinburgh.Concur.
Curious: There's that line in CD where Mab shows up tense, asked teh Wardens permission, then kinda sorta apoligizes to Alfred. She relaxes when he acknowledges it as if he lowered a weapon. I wonder if she was worried that Alfred would view her and Maeve as essentially the same thing (being chunks of the same proto-mantle or whatever the deal is), and was relieved to see he'd developed the nuance to deal with diplomatically.