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Topics - KurtinStGeorge

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16
There's no way to be certain, but I want to run a WAG by everyone that relates to a nemfected fallen angel.  But first, I want to give some context to put this idea into perspective.  In White Night, Harry has a conversation with Lashiel's shadow in which he claims that she had changed from when Harry first picked up the coin:

Lash - "You. Cannot. Change. Me." 
Harry - "You're right. I can't change Lasciel. But I couldn't prevent Lasciel from walking out of the room, either." I eyed her hard and lowered my voice. "Lady, you ain't Lasciel."

So, from the above bit of conversation it appears the Fallen are immutable, it is only their shadow form that can be altered through contact with a mortal.  However, Outsiders aren't mortals.  Nemesis isn't a mortal.  What if the Fallen are not invulnerable to becoming nemfected?  Equally important, why would I think one of the Fallen might be nemfected?  Well, there is this bit of conversation between Harry and Nicodemus in Small Favor:

Harry - "Tessa and Rosanna," I said quietly. "They got their collection of thugs back. They bailed at just the right moment to ruin your plan, too."
Nicodemus - "Deceitful bitches," Nicodemus murmured. "One of them is our own Judas; I was sure of it." ...
Harry - "And you're telling me this why?"
Nicodemus - He shrugged a shoulder. "It's somewhat ironic, Dresden, that I can talk to you about this particular aspect of family business. You're the only one that I'm sure hasn't gone over to this new force-this Black Council of yours."

The hypothetical Black Council, a group of human wizards and other supernatural beings who appear to be in league with the Outsiders, with Nemesis.  And Nicodemus thinks Tessa or Rosanna is one of them.  We've only seen Rossana in Small Favor, which makes it difficult to judge her words and actions in that novel as being anything but that of one of the Fallen and her collaborating mortal partner.  I didn't get any vibes in Skin Game that Tessa was acting against her nature.  That would be a major clue that she was nemfected.  I find it difficult to believe that one of the Fallen would ever enter into a long-term alliance with Outsiders.  They might do it on rare occasions but only if they thought they weren't helping to bring on the end of reality, the thing the Outsiders want most.  That is why I think one of the Fallen would have to have been taken over by Nemesis to do its bidding.

However, there's a problem with Nicodemus telling us Tessa or Rosanna is Black Council.  Think of a stage magician getting his audience to look one way while the real action is taking place somewhere else.  Of course, the stage magician is Jim Butcher and he has every reason to misdirect the readers.  I think Jim may have hidden the real traitor among the Fallen in plain sight.  It’s Thorned Namshiel.  He’s the Denarian who threw around hell fire at Arctis Tor.  Mab confirmed that in her final conversation with Harry in Small Favor.  Do you think Thorned Namshiel was just following Tessa’s orders when it attacked, or helped to attack Arctis Tor?  He might have done so, but it doesn’t make much sense to me.  It makes more sense to think that Thorned Namshiel had his own agenda or he was being controlled by Nemesis.

If the later is true, this doesn't mean that Marcone is nemfected, though he could be.  Marcone might just be getting advise and training from a Nemesis infected fallen angel.  Though at some point it might be beneficial or simply necessary for Nemesis to directly control Marcone.  But; I can hear some people saying, Marcone and Thorned Namshiel helped to defend Chicago from Ethniu.  I think Ethniu had her own agenda and there's no reason to think she was a Nemesis agent.  It might be more important for Nemesis to build up Marcone's position in the supernatural world, especially in Mab's alliance, in order to help set up the sucker punch Nemesis wants to pull off to bring all the supernatural powers allied against it down. 

The beauty of this scenario is this, if Marcone starts to act odd or out of character, most of us would think that is an indication that Thorned Namshiel is starting to take over and fully control Marcone.  Most of us would never think that Nemesis was controlling Marcone.  It could be a great surprise for Mab, for Harry and for the readers.   

 

17
DF Spoilers / Just an odd thought about Rudolph
« on: February 15, 2023, 10:16:49 PM »
This thread isn't about Rudolph's future; can he be redeemed, will Harry forgive him or will a dark entity offer Rudolph real power, like one of the Blackened Denarius coins.  (I like that last idea.)  This post is an open question about Jim's writing, about what he was trying to do when he introduced Rudolph in Fool Moon and used him again in Grave Peril.

I just started rereading the series again and just finished Grave Peril.  Now, I'm trying to remember if we see Rudolph again before Changes.  Maybe his name was mentioned once; that he'd left Special Investigations to go to Internal Affairs, but other than that I think he pretty much disappears from the overall story.

I'm wondering if the character of Rudolph is similar to Waldo Butters.  Perhaps Jim just needed a bumbling idiot and someone who couldn't believe what he was seeing when the Loup Garou was rampaging through S.I.'s HQ, but then decided to expand the character and make him a thorn in Harry's side. 

In Grave Peril we find out that Rudolph ran away rather than face Kravos and his demon.  So, by the third book Rudolph is a complete coward.  In Fool Moon, Rudolph is in shock and he's panicky, but he isn't running away.  Of course it helped that Carmichael told Rudolph to stay with Harry, but panicked as he was, at no time did it look like Rudolph would bolt and run.

Also in Grave Peril, Jim sneaks in a continuity error about Rudolph; which I don't think was an error at all, just another subtle indication we are watching events taking place across a multiverse.  After describing Rudolph running away from Kravos, Harry says, "Before that, I'd escaped police custody while he (Rudolph) was supposed to be watching me. I'd had a darn good reason to escape, and it wasn't really fair of him to hold that against me, but hey. Whatever got him through the day. " But that was wrong.  Rudolph wasn't at Harley MacFinn's mansion, or if he was we never saw him.  More important, it was detective Carmichael who put Harry in a police car and left him by himself, which allowed Tera West to help Harry escape.  (OK, this entire paragraph is a bit off topic, or maybe not.  I just had never noticed that continuity error before.)

Then there's this other bit of odd dialog between Rudolph and Harry in Grave Peril, after the Nightmare had attacked Murphy.  Rudolph's expression was serious, earnest. He'd never much liked me, anyway. ""You'd better not be a fake, Dresden," he said, quietly. "I'm not really sure what's going on here. But so help me God, if something happens to the lieutenant because of you ...  "I mean it, Dresden. If you let Murphy get hurt, I'll kill you."  What is that all about?  Does Rudy have a crush on Murphy, is that why he cares what happens to her, or is this more multiverse shenanigan's?  Maybe we are seeing a scene in one universe where there is a Rudolph who actually cares about the people he works with, someone who isn't a total jerk.  I don't know. 

To get back to my main point, am I forgetting something?  Is Rudolph in any of the books or short stories that run between and include Summer Knight and Turn Coat?  If not, is he mentioned in one of them?  I wonder if there are any more clues that I am missing.

18
DF Spoilers / Dating etiquette for vampires
« on: January 27, 2023, 12:25:46 AM »
What kind of dates do you see Harry and Lara; or in their formal titles, The Winter Knight and the de facto Queen of the White Court, going on?

Will Lara want Harry to take her to Club Zero or do you think we will see them in a more formal setting, perhaps including ballroom dancing, maybe even a tango?  There should be multiple dates, so perhaps both.  Will they have to go to a Winter or Summer party, like the one Mab threw for Harry's birthday?  I'm thinking that would be a way for Mab to show Summer and the rest of the magical world that Winter and the White Court are now allies.

By the time they get to their final date will Harry and Lara's relationship have them growing closer to one another or will they be arguing as if they had already been married for ten years?  I'm assuming they will both be working on finding Justine and recovering the child; make that infant; unborn or born.  Do you think that will help unite them or drive them apart?  Of course, there is also the issue of Thomas and how what effect it will have on their relationship.  That is something of a wild card.  Thomas might be free by the end of Twelve Months or his release may not occur until after Mirror Mirror.

I'm guessing Twelve Months ends in a similar manner to an episode of the original Quantum Leap.  Just when everything gets settled Harry will get pulled into the Mirror Mirror universe, and maybe he will even say, "Oh Boy!".  Do you think that will happen just before wedding or will it occur after the wedding, but before the wedding night?

One thing I'm certain of; unless Lara can figure a way to remove Harry's love protection before the wedding, Harry will have to wear gloves whenever he goes out with Lara, otherwise he could burn her, and that wouldn't be a good look.  And Mab wouldn't like that either.


19
DF Spoilers / Non- obvious things you want to see explained
« on: July 21, 2022, 11:54:21 PM »
This subject is for any odd or unusual situation or mystery you want to know more about or have explained.  Even if the mystery is something that Jim might never take the time to fully answer.

I was looking at the thread about the possible origins of the Red and White Courts of Vampires, and I started wondering about something Nicodemus said about the Red Court back in Small Favor.  Nic offered to help Harry wipe out the Red Court.  Specifically, Nic said of the Red Court, "They're large, well organized, dangerous to my plans, a plague upon mankind, and aesthetically repugnant. They're parasites who are inconvenient in the short term, dangerous in the middle distance, and fatal to any long-range plan. They need to be destroyed at some point, in any case."

Of course, there is no way to know why the Red Court were a threat to Nics plans until we find out exactly what those plans actually involve.  So far, I've haven't seen anyone make any detailed speculation on what Nic's long-term plan is.  I think there has been some talk about Nic; and by extension Anduriel, wanting to defeat the Outsiders, but do so in a way that probably wipes out most of humanity.  I could see the Red Court; if they were still around, not being very happy to see most of their food source disappear, but if Nic's plan involves the use of the Holly Grail or other items that were in Hades vault, I don't understand how the Red Court could get in Nic's way.

This isn't an huge issue or mystery like who fixed Little Chicago or who was responsible for Malcolm Dresden's death, but I don't want to see it get glossed over when Nic's plan or plans come into full view.

What odd or minor issue or mystery do you want to see explained?
     

20
DF Spoilers / Lawyers and dating Lara Raith
« on: July 15, 2022, 02:16:45 AM »
This is just for fun.

When it was revealed in "The Law" that the terms of Harry's dates with Lara had to be legally negotiated in advance, I didn't immediately think that Talvi Inverno would appear in the next novel.  Though in retrospect, I won't be surprised if we see Mr. Winter Winter acting as Winter's lawyer in this matter in Twelve Months.

No, my first thought went back to a cheesy 1980's scifi movie called "Cherry 2000."  Yea, I know that sounds more like the title of a porn movie from that era, but it was a real movie with real actors.  It starred Melanie Griffith and Tim Thomerson.  There was a scene in the movie that predicted that dates in the future would be negotiated with an attorney and be settled with a signed contract.  Here's a link to a scene that takes place in a hookup bar with Laurence Fishburne; about twelve years before he was in The Matrix, acting as the club attorney helping to arrange a one date contract. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urS8GmwmeWQ&ab_channel=JorethInnKeeper

If anyone wants to take this topic seriously, what kind of terms do you think Lara and Mab would want in the contracts and what terms will annoy Harry the most?  I'm guessing Harry will only have about the same amount of power to influence the terms of the dates as he did when Mab loaned him out to Nicodemus to pay off her debt to Anduriel.


21
So, I re-listened to the audio books of PT and BG while doing some hiking before the Summer temperatures exploded here (St. George, Utah which is at the Eastern end of the Mohave Desert) a few days ago.  I have to say I liked both books; especially BG, much more than when they came out two years ago.  I think because I already knew that PT didn't have a lot of actions scenes and I didn't have any expectations that I had the first time I read BG, it made a difference; though I still wouldn't rate either book or both together as being near the top of my best of Dresden Files list.

I'm wondering about the sign that Harry got Mac to nail up at the pub.  Talk about a Chekhov's Gun moment.  It looked like Mac might be forced to make a last stand against the Fomor and then we never saw him again.  I could be wrong, but I doubt Mac was with the crowd that followed Harry's Banner.  Perhaps once he nailed up the sign Mac was compelled to stay and defend that spot or perhaps his not quite mortal nature precluded him from coming under the influence of the Banner.  In any case, the sign and where it is now located will come into significance later, though I wonder when and in what way.

There has been some speculation about how long Thomas will remain imprisoned underneath Demon Reach, but I don't want to make guesses about that.  Prior to PT and BG there was some speculation that Thomas will one day take up Amoracchius; and I guess I could still see that happening, but there's a problem; actually two, that I don't see The Sword of Love helping to solve. 

I can envision a scenario where the new KotC saves Mr. Etri, his sister or perhaps both of them from some peril and that might balance the scales with Swartalves.  That, and an explanation that Thomas was compelled to attack Etri, it wasn't something he wanted to do.  Even if potential complications from that scenario get ironed out, how would that help Thomas with his need to feed?  The island can protect Thomas from his Hunger but what happens the moment he's released from captivity?  OK, let's say there's a solution to that problem, I don't see how taking up Amorachius would help Thomas with his Hunger and the demon behind it. 

Well wait a minute, maybe I can.  Removing the hunger demon from a White Court vampire would be fatal, but perhaps if Thomas took up Amorachius it would kill his inner demon; because love is poison to the White Court the Sword of Love should be equally poisonous, but protect the man who took up the holy sword.  Thomas would become a mortal human.  I suppose it could work, but that still doesn't do anything to get Justine back and free her from Nemesis.  I doubt that even Amorachius could help with that task.  That sword should be able to cut up Nemesis just fine; because when Michael was still a KotC Amorachius had no problem dealing with Outsiders, but unfortunately it would do the same thing to Justine, making the sword unusable.

Then again, we know one sword that appears to be capable of hurting Nemesis without harming Justine or her unborn child.  Fidelacchius seems made for the task and it's likely Nemesis wouldn't know a thing about its new abilities and limitations.  Nemesis would get a real surprise if Butters swung it at Justine.  One possible complication to Butters freeing Justine is he might be in more danger than usual.  If Butters didn't get sent a message from On High to help free Justine, if it was something Harry or Thomas asked Butters to do then Waldo might be at greater physical peril.  At least Harry believed that Michael was injured more often when Harry asked the Knight for his help rather than Michael's mission was Heaven sent.

The only other questions I have after BG are mostly issues that have already been widely discussed in other threads, like the possible long-term influence of Thorned Namshiel on Marcone.  It might take several books, but I suspect we will eventually see some sign that Marcone is changing for the worse.  There's also the question of Thorned Namshiel's feelings about Nicodemus.  Just because Marone would like to destroy Nicodemus that doesn't mean Thorned Namshiel thinks the same way.  I'm remembering the time Nicodemus called on Lasciel's shadow to paralyze Harry so Nic could recruit him.  There's no reason Thorned Namshiel shouldn't be able to do the same thing to Marcone.  That's not even a WAG, just an extreme thing that could happen if Marcone and TN's interests diverged from one another.     

When will Harry call upon Ethniu to do his bidding?  My guess is not for a long time.  One possible scenario would be when Harry has to deal with a kaiju, but that's just pure speculation without any real evidence to back it up.       

There are questions about Lara and the White Court, but some of those predate PT and BG and it appears we will be seeing a fair amount of her in the next novel, so that should be fun.  Of course, if the above scenario of Thomas taking up Amorachius and becoming a mortal human came true, Lara would not react well to that.  However, there's no guarantee that Thomas will be released from Demon Reach in the next book, so this could be a long-term issue.

Just when I think I'm finished there's always one more issue to cover.  I wonder what answer LTW will give Harry in one year, about what it means to be Starborn.  When Harry asked the Starborn question the first time, LTW essentially told Harry that he didn't have any other options than wait for a reply.  When LTW comes to tell Harry if he will answer his question, I'd like to see Harry start the conversation by telling LTW that if he can't or won't tell him what it really means to be Starborn, Harry has other sources who will give him the answers he's been seeking, and do so within the hour, because it's true.  Harry could ask Bonea about being Starborn; though if Harry didn't ask the right questions or ask them in the right way, he might not learn everything he really needs to know, but it would be a way of telling LTW; and the others who are in the know, that they can work with Harry or he can go his own way without them.  Mostly, I'm tired of waiting myself.  We've been waiting a long time for many different mysteries to be solved, I think it's time some of this jigsaw puzzle starts to get filled in a bit.   

22
Here is a link to the original post.  It's hard to believe it was made over eleven years ago: https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,19774.0.html

I want to attempt to determine what new information and speculation might have been added to the Warden File on Harry Dresden following the events in Peace Talks and Battle Ground; and I need your help.  Let me start with some basic information and show how it could easily be misinterpreted by the White Council.

The hypothetical warden file on Harry went up to the end of Cold Days.  I'm not certain what the Council would have heard about the events of Skin Game.  I don't have the book with me, but I believe in the first conversation Warden Ramirez had with Harry in Peace Talks; Carlos; and therefore the rest of White Council, were aware that Baron Marcone set up Nicodemus to take a fall and Ramirez was aware that Karrin Murphy had been badly injured by Nic.  The young Warden seemed impressed that Murphy had managed to survive at all. 

I'm going to assume that word was sent to the Paranet about Murphy's injuries and roughly how she got them, but probably no specific information about Harry was given; perhaps only that Harry was in some way involved.  Ramirez could have picked up this information from someone at Mac's or had it passed on to him by someone like Elaine.

So how might the White Council take what they knew or think they knew about Harry, add the above information and what was witnessed in PT and BG and completely misinterpret it?  Here's one way.
  • From previous information gathered from Chicago locals; even though Harry Dresden didn't use black magic to do so, he may have targeted the sorcerer Victor Sells for removal as a favor to, or in the service of John Marcone.
  • There was a news report and a badly shot video which appeared on American television news stations; which showed Harry Dresden and his late ally / lover Karrin Murphy, fighting and killing a loup-garou.  This was purported to have occurred on the property of John Marcone.
  • A report from Warden Ramirez tells us that Harry Dresden hired John Marcone and his associates, as a backup force in case rescue was needed when Ramirez and Dresden dueled two White Court vampires on the property of the Raith family.
  • Baron Marcone was responsible for the disgrace of, and the current chase to find and eliminate the Denarian Nicodemus Archleone.  Harry Dresden's late ally and lover Karrin Murphy was badly wounded by Nicodemus in the runup to Nicodemus' fall.  It is likely Harry Dresden was involved in some unknown way.
  • Baron Marcone and Dresden fought and defeated the Titan Ethniu after she had been worn down by attacks from multiple other powers.

"Though they pretend to ignore or even dislike each other the few times they have been seen in public together, it is clear that the Baron of Chicago; John Marcone, and Harry Dresden are close allies.  Should it become necessary for the Council to move directly against Harry Dresden, it might be wise to inform Baron Marcone that the White Council has no interest showing disrespect to him or in disrupting his domain."

Ok, I know that was a bit wordy.  In the Wardens file I would forget the bullet points and say something like this:

"Because of their many known interactions together against multiple foes; and their close cooperation in the final defeat of the Titan Ethniu, it appears highly likely that Baron John Marcone and Harry Dresden are close allies; even though they go out of their way to ignore each or even even show dislike of each other in public.  This appears to be a ruse to hide their close working relationship.  Should it become necessary for the Council to move directly against Harry Dresden, it might be wise to inform Baron Marcone that the White Council has no interest showing disrespect to him or in disrupting his domain"

What do you think would get added; correctly or incorrectly, to the Warden File on Harry Dresden after Peace Talks and Battle Ground?  If you think the White Council learned or misinterpreted anything from the events of Skin Game, you can add that as well.  After two or three weeks; maybe longer if there are a lot of comments, I'll take take everything we can come up with and add it to the original file. 


 

 

 

23
DF Spoilers / The truth about Harry and Thomas comes out?
« on: December 09, 2021, 09:02:05 AM »
I'm making an assumption that at some point Thomas will not only leave Demonreach prison, he will somehow manage to balance the scales with the Swartalves, so they're no longer invested in killing him.  Then again, for all we know the Swartalves could get wiped out.  No one is safe, and it happened to the Red Court so there's no reason it couldn't happen to them.  That would solve Thomas' problem too, though not in a very satisfying manner.

Once that issue is dealt with, how long must Harry keep it secret that Thomas is his half-brother?  Harry isn't a member of the White Council any more.  Other than not overtly breaking the Laws of Magic, Harry doesn't have to play by their cultural rules or worry about their politics.  Unless they decide to kill him, of course.  However, the one person it could hurt is Ebenezer; so, maybe I'm wrong about Harry not having to worry about White Council politics.  However, I'm not expecting Ebenezer to be around much longer, and once he's gone that issue disappears.   

Rather than undermining Harry I think the White Council may have actually empowered him by cutting him loose.  Any one else agree with me and can you think of another way no longer being a member of the Council may benefit Harry.

Oh yea, if Harry allows his family relationship with Thomas to become public, it takes away the leverage Lara has of knowing the secret.

24
DF Spoilers / Toot Toot and the dread cat Mister
« on: November 30, 2021, 10:28:23 PM »
Some of you already know this, so this is a PSA for everyone who doesn't know yet.  Toot Toot; and judging by the the book cover Lacuna, will team up with Mister to face off against an invader Harry is unaware of, in the short story "Little Things."  It will be released next May in a collection of short stories titled "Heroic Hearts." 

Here's a link to the Amazon page on it. 
https://www.amazon.com/Heroic-Hearts/dp/B09FC1MHY4/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Heroic+Hearts&qid=1638310575&sr=8-1

25
DF Spoilers / What will Thorned Namshiel keep hidden from Marcone?
« on: July 17, 2021, 02:27:14 AM »
There's only two things that I can think of at the moment, but I won't be surprised if there are other issues some of you might dream up.

First, I strongly doubt that TN will say anything to Marcone about assaulting Arctis Tor.  So when Mab decides to get payback against the spiny demon, I doubt Marcone will see it coming.

I would guess that TN would rather not talk about Harry kicking his ass and leaving his former host a complete mess.  However, even though Marcone didn't witness the fight in the Shedd Aquarium, I wouldn't be surprised if he noticed how badly Thorned Namshiel's former host's body was torn up after the denarians returned to Demonreach.  Though Marcone might feel it's both natural and necessary to ask the denarian for some details.   

26
DF Spoilers / Harry's soul - will it change?
« on: July 17, 2021, 01:04:12 AM »
Does anyone think there will come a time when someone who has soulgazed Harry in the past will look into Harry's eyes and be floored by what they see because Harry's soul has undergone a significant change?  Harry has stated that he doesn't avert his gaze from those people he's shared a soulgaze with because he knows it won't have any effect on them.

Without Harry becoming overtly evil or being possessed by an Outsider or something else, do you think Harry's soul could be significantly changed so that it would trigger new soulgazes with past partners?

I also wonder about Marcone.  Harry has said on more than occasion that Marcone has a Tiger's soul, but I'm wondering if the crime boss could become corrupted by Thorned Namshiel to the point where his soul changes and this triggers a new soulgaze with Harry.

Another candidate for a change of soul might be Thomas, after he goes through whatever is happening to him on Demonreach.


27
“Nemesis,” she breathed. “Speak it carefully—or it may hear you.”

If Harry is talking to Mab; or anyone else clued-in about Nemesis, and the conversation involves the strategy and tactics needed to defeat it or its aims, I can understand that keeping Nemesis from listening in on that conversation would be a good idea.  However, by now Harry has had two open conversations with the Nemesis personality of one of his friends and one of his allies.  Those conversations weren't exactly subtle.  Nemesis knows that Harry knows about it.  So now, shouldn't Harry be able to warn his friends about Nemesis without worrying that it may hear him?

I thought the risk of doing this is that a Nemfected individual would react to finding out that Harry was aware of Nemesis by trying to nemfect Harry.    But Harry must already be on Nemesis' hit list.  For example, if Will or Georgia has already been takin over by Nemesis, wouldn't they already be looking for an opportunity to do the same thing to Harry.  Conversely, keeping his allies in the dark makes for having less effective allies.  Even if Harry held to using the term Adversary, the risk of talking about it doesn't seem any greater than the risk of not talking about it.  What do you think? 

 

28
DF Spoilers / "It is not yet your hour."
« on: June 08, 2021, 06:41:06 PM »
To to remind anyone who doesn't quite remember what the subject line refers to, it's from Turn Coat when the Gatekeeper confronts Harry on the 'What's up dock'."  Specifically, Rashid's dialog with Harry goes like this:
...
"And I cannot permit you to openly challenge the White Council to battle."

"No?" I asked, thrusting out my jaw. "Why not?"

His deep, resonant voice sounded troubled. "It is not yet your hour."

I felt my eyebrows go up. "Not yet...?"

He shook his head. "Places in time. This is not the time, or the place....


The first thing I noticed while rereading this passage is that; according to the Gatekeeper, while we can't know the location where Harry will eventually challenge the Council, it won't be on Demonreach.  Then again, maybe Harry will challenge the Council to come to Demonreach Island, but they just won't be dumb enough to do that.  However, the location of this future showdown is not the primary reason I started this thread.

What I want to do is ask everyone, what do you think will cause Harry to take a direct stand again the White Council? I suppose it could be something as simple as the Council announcing they've declared Harry an outlaw and he preempts them by making the first move, but knowing Harry, he will probably only make an overt challenge against the Council in response to a moral issue he feels he can't back away from.  What do you think that could be?  Will the Council cross some moral boundary Harry can't accept or will it be something closer to home, like the Council learning about Bob and, or Bonea and demanding they be destroyed?  What scenarios have you thought up that would push Harry to take such an extreme action?     

29
There's a thread about Summer Knight foreshadowing which is about Aurora in SK and Morgan in his microfiction letter, both calling Harry a Destroyer.  What I have to say here is related but goes off on a tangent that deserves a separate discussion.

I think that while Martha Liberty does not use the word Destroyer; with the hindsight we have from reading Morgan's microfiction and what Aurora said about Harry in Summer Knight, Liberty strongly implies that is exactly what she meant when she says of Harry to Ebenezer, "You know what he was meant to be."  Also, Mother Winter described Harry as a weapon in Cold Days.  The way I read this passage is that Mother Winter wasn't referring to Harry as a thug who would kill anyone who pissed off Mab, she was saying that Harry was a weapon that was created with a deeper purpose in mind.   

So, for whatever purpose was envisioned for Harry, or whatever it is he is supposed to destroy, an awful lot of people know it.  Apparently Margaret LeFay wasn't very good at keeping Harry's purpose a secret.  It probably explains HWWB's interest in Harry when they first met and the reason why HWWBf kept saying "Send out the wizard" in Cold Days.  The Walkers wanted to turn Harry's purpose and ability to their own advantage.

To follow this idea a bit further; in Blood Rites Ebenezer told Harry that he and Margaret argued over some scheme she was working on with Lord Raith, and possibly Duchess Ariana of the Red Court.  Justin DuMorne was one of Margaret's associates so it seems likely that he was also aware of this plan.  Though at present this is just speculation, it seems to me that a solid guess is that Harry's birth, the timing of it, and its exact purpose are at the center of this scheme.

So look at the list of characters; besides LeFay, Raith and Arianna, who have some knowledge of the plan: Ebenezer McCoy, Martha Liberty, Donald Morgan; and if he knows Arthur Langtry must also know, Justin DuMorne, Summer Lady Aurora, Mother Winter, Mother Summer, and probably HWWB.  There are others who are also highly likely to be in the know, such as the Leanansidhe, Mab, and Titania.  This list might also be extended to Ancient Mai,  Aleron LaFortier and the Gatekeeper.  Finally, Captain Anastasia Luccio should be in the know.  You would think the head of the wizard's secret police would find out, whether or not the Senior Council would have officially informed her.

What I want to know is how did they all find out?  Did Ebenezer have to make a report to the Senior Council about this diner and what was said there?  That would explain the Senior Council members knowledge.  I could see Lea finding out directly from Margaret LeFay.  Justin may have also found out from Margaret or he may have had a hand in the planning.  It doesn't explain how the Summer and Winter Mother's, the Queens and Summer Lady found out.  It's possible Maeve was too lazy to keep herself informed, but then again perhaps she knew as well.  I suppose HWWB could have found out from anyone with knowledge of the plan who became nemfected.

When is Harry going to start asking questions about this?  I really hope Ebenezer has another conversation (or three) with Harry in the next book so we can start to get some answers.  Does anyone want to take a guess about how knowledge of the plan spread or guess at any other characters who may know; or might have known before their demise, about Harry the Destroyer? 

30
DF Spoilers / Goodman Grey - Yea, Nay or in-between - And more
« on: April 19, 2021, 02:27:03 AM »
Someone; sorry I don't remember who or in what thread it was in, made a very interesting comment about new characters being introduced into the Dresden Files.  I'm writing in generalities because I can't find the exact quote, but I gathered that they didn't think that Goodman Grey was all that.  They said that Jim had created other characters who are currently being ignored, like the mercenary Jared Kincade, who might be even more interesting to learn more about.  I tend to agree.  I didn't think Goodman Grey was such a compelling character that he would be anything more than one and done.  Like say, Terra West from Fool Moon.

I don't think this comment meant that the Goodman Grey character wasn't good in Skin Game.  Rather it was about the idea Jim has put forward about doing a series built around Goodman Grey after the Dresden Files is done (So sometime early in the second half of the 21st century.), but perhaps they were also referring to Grey's short appearance in Peace Talks.

When I first heard that Jim was thinking of doing a Goodman Grey series, I was underwhelmed by the idea.  Also, I can't say I was impressed with the Goodman Grey short story either, but Jim's forte isn't short stories, so that might not be much of an indicator of how good a Goodman Grey novel might be.  In fights I think G Grey is more than a little OP.  It appears to me that nothing short of someone like Mab could straight up flatten him. 

Also, I agreed that the idea of a character who is trying to transcend their monstrous beginnings could just as easily apply to Jared Kincade.  However, it's possible that Jim already has Kincade's fate worked out and Jim may have worked out Kincade's backstory to the degree that making the same story be about him wouldn't work.  But seeing as we, the audience, don't know Kincade's backstory beyond what's in the novels, I don't think that is much of an obstacle to be overcome.

However, I not really interested in whether a spinoff series should be based on Goodman Grey or Kincade.  I more interested what people think about Goodman Grey.  Do you find the character to be so compelling you'd want to read a series featuring him?  Are you expecting to find out what's happened to Kinkade since Ivy fired him.  (Besides the obvious, that he's doing hit jobs for cash.)  Are there other previously established Dresden Files characters being left on the shelf, that you would like to see get more time and development in the current story?   

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