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Messages - luminos

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31
DFRPG / Re: Giving teeth to enforcement of The Laws
« on: March 02, 2011, 04:55:48 AM »
In any case, if anyone feels like in their game the GM has to "get" the players and make them get Lawbreaker stunts, then something is really fracked with the group dynamic in that game.  That's how GMs in parodies of RPG groups play (like DM of the Rings).*  Frankly, if I found myself in a game like that, I'd quit.


Yeah, absolutely.  Which ties into a point that I think gets glossed over in these discussions, and that is that it doesn't have to be about getting the player when its about getting the character.  Compels are already evidence that the game separates the two concepts.  Its very possible to play a game where the characters get slapped with lawbreaker status they do not want, while the players are okay with it.  If the players are never okay with getting lawbreaker on their characters, then they really really really really really need to say so as part of the pre-game discussion, lest they end up having their expectations undermined through play.

32
DFRPG / Re: Giving teeth to enforcement of The Laws
« on: March 02, 2011, 04:43:59 AM »
Reasonable outcomes for a large intense fireball easily being along the lines of horrible, disfiguring burns as an extreme consequence

Which is precisely why I advocate the pre-game discussion before implementing lawbreaker policies.  That way, the group could work it out for themselves what constitutes reasonable, rather than relying on assumptions, which given this discussion, are guaranteed to clash.

33
DFRPG / Re: Giving teeth to enforcement of The Laws
« on: March 02, 2011, 04:41:52 AM »
I dislike this.

Problems of this sort can and should be dealt with at character creation.

If you don't like 8 shift evocations, tell your players that you aren't comfortable with them and have them make a non-Blast-O-Matic character.


Its a separate issue (for me at least) as disliking 8 shift evocations.  Its about gaming the system to produce unreasonable results in the fiction.  Weapon values are abstractions, but they are abstractions that are supposed to mean something in the fiction.  And the laws are supposed to have very real implications for how characters act in the fiction.  Using the rules to ignore what would make sense fiction-wise just feels all kinds of messed up.

34
DFRPG / Re: Giving teeth to enforcement of The Laws
« on: March 02, 2011, 04:36:59 AM »
I think this approach is workable, but it needs to be backed up by a pre-game discussion with the entire group about expectations around lawbreaker status, and expectations around weapon strength and taken out results.  Hopefully, if everyone agrees ahead of time that nuking a group of people is not a reasonable way to knock them unconscious, then you won't have to worry about this problem.  But if for some reason someone still tries it, then you can use this method without guilt and remind them what you all agreed to at the start of the game if there are complaints.

35
DFRPG / Re: Greater Glamour
« on: February 28, 2011, 06:22:45 PM »
Glamours, like Shapeshifting and Inciting Emotions, does not cost mental stress.  It is not spellcasting.  It is one of the natural powers that some of the Fae have, like inhuman speed and such.

If you want to look at points cost, think of this:  You can get channeling for -2 refresh as well, and on top of that, you get two focus items and the ability to perform any attacks, maneuvers, veils, blocks, and counterspells you can justify with your element.  Glamours is just the ability to veil and produce small items that look real but aren't.  Plus, the entry for glamours mentions that you can use discipline or deceit to determine the effect.  Doesn't sound like spellcasting to me.  Plus, it makes no mention of it following spellcasting.  It's not in the same section as spellcasting.  The only connection between the two is that both can create blocks against perception.  That alone doesn't give evidence that they use the same subsystem.  Otherwise, you could say shapeshifting and incite emotions using thaumaturgy, or maybe breath weapons uses evocation.  

36
DFRPG / Re: The Fate Point Barter
« on: February 28, 2011, 06:08:00 PM »
@malckuss:  Koffey isn't talking about custom stunts here, he's talking about rules that would apply to everyone.

I think the changes are interesting.  They'd probably need some playtesting to get a good idea of what the hidden implications of them are.  But they do seem to add some more tactical versatility to the combat system, so thats good if thats what you want.

37
DFRPG / Re: Advice on GM characters for a first-time GM
« on: February 28, 2011, 05:59:11 PM »
The key to not going over the line with your NPC's is to know what their purpose is story-wise.  If their purpose is to enable the players to better tell the story of the PC's, then you are on solid ground.  To this end, the NPC is only important if he makes a PC more important than itself.  Always define them in terms of how they will challenge the PC's (whether as opposition, or by presenting difficult choices), and then just try to play things out.  When an NPC is not giving the PC's situations to overcome or choices to make (or worse yet, solving problems for the PC's) find a way to put them on the bench or write them out of the story.

38
Can you point out the references?  The only mechanics I'm aware are for Taking someone out (usually 23+ shifts of total damage) and Concessions (anything less than 23 shifts).

You are getting confused with effects that guarantee a takeout, and being taken out itself.  You are taken out as soon as stress goes past your last stress box and you don't use a consequence to reduce it back below that threshold.  You can concede any time, as long as you haven't been taken out.

Page 203 YS defines being taken out as having damage that exceeds a characters stress boxes, if you need the reference.  There are other references in there that say the same thing.

39
DFRPG / Re: Monsters With Two Actions Each Exchange
« on: February 27, 2011, 05:24:08 AM »
It probably depends on the exact effect you are looking for.  Implementing anything as multiple actions per exchange is clumsy, but understandable if alternatives don't exist.  I think in many cases, you could find alternatives.

Example:  You want something that is so fast that it can hit someone multiple times in the time it takes the something to try to hit back.

Solution:  Give it a high weapon/fist skill, and narrate the results of a single attack roll as being several attacks.  An exchange is an abstract measurement of time, not a defined 1 "real" action per turn deal.

Example:  You want a monster that excretes a toxic gas, harming anyone near it.

Solution:  Give it a custom power that creates environmental damage in the same zone as itself, with immunity to that damage.  Cost is largely irrelevant, but consider how many points the environmental damage would be worth as its own "character" if you want to balance the encounter so that it isn't too difficult.

I can do more, if you like.

40
DFRPG / Re: Tips on Evocation?
« on: February 26, 2011, 02:29:01 AM »
So I'm assuming most campaigns have little to nothing in the way of mental attacks?

I made a big bad once that specialized in mental attack magic.  It was a bit of a nasty surprise for the players, who had been steamrolling their opposition up until that point, but its not the kind of thing that you can throw at them all the damn time without it wearing thin.  Interestingly enough, he hurt the nonspellcaster a lot worse than the spellcasters, because they had a high enough discipline skill to give them a chance at resisting the attacks. 

I've never seen a fight where either a.) the wizard runs out of juice before finishing off the bad guys or b.) everyone, not just the wizard, gets their asses handed to them.  The pacing just works out so that fight scenes lasting more than four rounds just don't happen all that much.

41
Meh, I don't see why there should be risks for magic over and above, for instance, Supernatural Might or a bigass machine gun.  The only reason that the topic keeps coming up is because First Law violations are such a nifty way of reining in Evocation, which can easily become game-wreckingly overpowered. 


But its not just for reining in Evocation from being to powerful for the game, its for making the game work on the same assumptions as the books.  It is a fact that in the books, lethal force with magic is objectively worse than doing the same thing with a machine gun.  Hurling around lethal force with magic all the time in the game and not treating it as any more serious than doing the same with a gun is going outside of the Dresdenverse.  Nothing wrong with it, per se, but if you told me we were going to be playing a game of the Dresden Files, it would break my expectations for Lawbreaker to be ignored just because its inconvenient.

42
DFRPG / Re: Sponcered Magic ideas.
« on: February 11, 2011, 06:56:02 PM »
What is the final consensus on how to break down Sponsored Magic?

There isn't a consensus.  Same as for about a dozen other important questions for the Dresden Files system.  There are multiple valid points of view that you can choose from.

43
DFRPG / Re: My Group Hates the System
« on: February 10, 2011, 08:40:34 PM »
Seriously, have a sit-down with your group and explain just what you see in the FATE system... and then ask them how they could HELP you implement it and make it even cooler.

... yes, the GM has to be a master manipulator.

This sounds like better advice.  I'd go with this.

44
DFRPG / Re: Injun Joe's shape shifting abilities
« on: February 10, 2011, 04:34:40 PM »
I'm the GM of this particular game and I buy myself drinks all the time :)

I was thinking of using this shape shifting shaman as a foil for the PCs, but just thought buying the powers seemed a little off considering what Injun Joe knew how to do via some spell. But it's entirely possible you're correct and it was all bought through the were-beast powers.

If he's an NPC, and more importantly, a bad guy NPC, then its not even a question of how to do it with spells.  Just give him the shapeshifting abilities and don't sweat the details.  The only question is how to represent the powers mechanically at that point, and the only logical answer is by using the pre-existing shapeshifting mechanics, even if they aren't the things PC wizards get access to.

45
DFRPG / Re: My Group Hates the System
« on: February 10, 2011, 04:28:19 PM »
That I (as the GM) tricked or trapped them and they should do better next time.  My players are long time GURPS players and see Compels to the Aspects like they did Disadvantages on their old GURPS characters.  Something they had to take to get more points and then to mitigate as much as possible.

I'm working on this.  *sigh*


Try this solution:  Make compels cost nothing to refuse.  Make sure you don't offer any soft compels.  Still give out Fate points if the character does something self-compelling.  Then, just make things challenging enough and sooner or later, one of them is going to try accepting compels just to see what happens.  When that turns out to make things more fun, others will follow suit.  Then once they dig the mechanic, you can add back in the Fate point cost to refuse a compel.

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