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Messages - solbergb

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46
DFRPG / Re: More New GM Questions!
« on: August 21, 2014, 01:01:57 PM »
Given that in my game, all kinds of people tied themselves to a player that didn't show up, it's not a big deal.  They still have connections through the absent third party.

Also the early scenes might have some connection with the absent player, based on what some of the PCs have learned so far.

Let the guest star in any story, or with any interesting NPC that has been important in the stories.  Somebody getting hospitalized, for example, is a great excuse for a PC relative to show up...(or I guess killed too...at the funeral instead of the hospital waiting room)

And yeah.  They can develop aspects in play too....but aspects actually do help tie in newbies to an established group, so it's helpful to the GM if the players make at least a little effort along those lines.

47
DFRPG / Re: Do you like or dislike the fate system and why?
« on: August 18, 2014, 09:41:11 PM »
The difference is deliberate.  Without the chance of total failure in the D&D-derived RPGs, a lot of the spice of overcoming the challenges for the players is lost.  Even when it is illusory (old school D&D didn't have namby-pamby challenge ratings :) and in some areas you didn't give a character anything much beyond a name in backstory until he'd got a few levels...more modern versions give the GM a lot more help for balancing opposition and some encourage secret cheating in player favor).

In any RPG where the fundamental approach is challenge-based satisfaction, you have to have threat of permanent loss, at some level.

The evolution of story-oriented games arrived later, and ironically some of them were seen as very lethal when they first started (Ars Magica is really the story of the Covenant, not its members, and you can have a huge body count without ending the story because of this, and Call of Cthulu assumes the players will eventually fail, but the fun is in watching the characters go through the cycles of discovery, denial, fear and either death or transformation into a monster...).  Most of the difference wasn't mechanical, it was just how the GM was encouraged to set up stories.   It wasn't really until diceless or nearly diceless games started to appear (Amber, Everway, similar) that people started putting in strong mechanics to back up the story itself, to give some narrative control to the player.   Aside from Amber, my first exposure was the Feng Shui game, which was a simulation of Hong Kong action movies (a genre that consumed the American action movie style within a decade, because it was better....).  That game had explicit mechanics for adding scene elements, it had skill trappings like you see in movies (an expert shooter will also be able to build/repair guns and know how to find a gunrunner), Ki points that could be used a lot like Fate Points and enemies that became harder to beat because of their narrative importance (named and mooks.  We later added "nicknames" for opposition that earns a bit of sweat or needs full power effort from the character, but isn't a serious threat).

What makes Fate derived systems unusually robust in the storytelling form of RPG is the aspect invocation mechanic, providing a way to reward players who "take one for the story" and also as a giant signal to the GM on the sort of stories they want told.  I've not done enough with Fate to know all the implications of this, but it does give the player a lot more narrative control over the story than is typical of most games, even those focused on story rather than challenge.

48
DFRPG / Re: Do you like or dislike the fate system and why?
« on: August 16, 2014, 08:41:31 PM »
Funny you should mention Fringe.  I always thought it was the best Mage: The Awakening campaign ever set to television.  You just have to realize that most of the protagonists are in fact mages, whether or not they realize it.  By the later seasons it's increasingly obvious (eg, the FBI agent's background....).  All sorts of things in that show work pretty much exactly like they would in a Mage game, including different paradigms for different characters and the consensus reality being stressed by "magic" and hitting back.

This attitude might be because the longest running Mage game I played had a bunch of my friends as mid-20-somethings after college graduation literally awakening as mages..and by the time we had any power we had each evolved our own ideas of what magic was, independent of all the established power structures.  I'm not sure I'd have the same impression of Fringe if my Mage game had involved all of us being brought up by, say, the Technocracy or Sons of the Ether.

But yes, Fringe works pretty well in Fate too.  Most forms of public entertainment do, and it isn't an accident.  Fate is written by a bunch of ex-Amber RPG players who were unsatisfied with how that system dealt with conflict.  Amber was designed to simulate a science-fiction/fantasy story arc.  These authors were fans of written stories, TV stories, movies, had been exposed to a lot of RPG and took a lot of good ideas from them.  But it was deliberately based around the idea of the protagonist in a story, and having the game mechanics work the way stuff does in a story.  A protagonist loses so that rising from the ashes is more dramatic.  I can't think of the last story I read or saw where bad things and outright defeats didn't happen to the protagonists.

Stories generally aren't written like a d20 game, where the protagonists go from one encounter to another, of varying degrees of challenge but never really experiencing more than severe resource-depletion and needing to rest from time to time.  D20, and 1st edition D&D before it came out of wargaming roots, where what is going on is the GM is presenting a challenge and the fun is overcoming the challenge, more like a CRPG than a novel.  There are genre conventions (eg, Champions/Hero Games are organized in a similar way, except that the genre allows PCs to lose without getting killed, hence deathtraps and the like) but the basic pattern is similar.  The GM isn't expected to present a challenge that the PC's are likely to lose most of the time.  The roleplaying is both there to make you care more about the challenges and also to provide an extra layer of social complexity to some obstacles.  But mostly it's to make you care.

Stories don't work like that, and it is a hard adjustment to people used to one style switching to the other.

49
DFRPG / Re: PC Balancing Issues - Need Advice
« on: August 16, 2014, 07:29:23 AM »
Fate really emphasizes this more than most systems but yeah.  What you want is INTERESTING outcomes.

If your scene is solid and grows the story whether your bad guy wins or loses it's easy to just let what happens, happen.

In a d20 type game, a miscalculated combat encounter can end the campaign with a TPK...and going soft on the wrong group in a tough encounter to prevent that can destroy the trust and cheapen their victories.   Warts and all, Fate systems don't have that problem, as long as players have the sense to concede or the GM can find a reason why the enemy wouldn't simply always use "die" as a take out result.

The challenge in Fate is to make those concessions believable, and more importantly, interesting.  If things really go sideways, it is perfectly ok to ask for a time out while you think things through and look for inspiration.   The thing with the killed gang member, body concealment, too broke to pay for the magic etc is a good example of that kind of improvisation...the player dug himself deeper and deeper and it just got more fun, and left the GM with lots of future story opportunities to pull in whenever he needs a dramatic shift somewhere.

50
DFRPG / Re: I dislike sponsor debt with Soulfire
« on: August 15, 2014, 02:58:33 PM »
Seems to me the debt would be tied more to having less of your soul to work with, and whatever you think the consequences of that might be.

For Harry, this initially expressed as a numb hand when he did a hand-force-evothaum, and likely also in a desire to do more "soul regenerating" stuff, as in his relationship with Luccio.

In a lot of ways Soulfire in the books is skinned as a lesser form of the death curse.  You could skin that as being more likely to be ruled by your aspects, but Harry seems to see it as something that risks his life in a way similar to how firing your memories of fire at people as a ghost is risky.  After the first book he's more careful with it, so we don't tend to see him piling up "soulfire" debt.   If I was playing a soulfire based character, I'd likely go down the road of debt being consequences of an incomplete or damaged soul, and think about what using certain kinds of magic would translate into.

Harry mostly uses soulfire with his fire spells, primarily to beat the catch on critters vulnerable to faith.  This use seems mostly to make him more aggressive or inclined to gloat/victory dance (think about how he behaved in Changes when chasing the vampires in the first scene).  This might be because he tends to throw fear/rage at enemies with fire, and with less of that in his system he behaves more like a fight is a game or contest.  When he made a hand construct, his hand went numb, which is pretty obvious.  When he's used it to reinforce defensive spells I've not noticed anything in particular, but maybe Jim's doing something subtle or I'm off base entirely :)  Mostly though I think Harry got a lot more careful when he realized he's throwing his soul at people so he hasn't been getting into a lot of situations where he incurs debt to it as a solution.



51
DFRPG / Re: PC Balancing Issues - Need Advice
« on: August 15, 2014, 02:12:49 PM »
So the other important question to ask yourself when making these intricate plots is:  How do I see my PCs getting out of this one?

Have some options but really, my experience is most PC groups will surprise you.  The trick is to go with it.  That's why I keep harping on "have some strategies of general use" for your competent bad guys.  They'll use something that clearly would work under most circumstances but maybe the PC's did something strange and it's less effective, so they then panic and do something else even more dramatic etc....if the PC's really do out-clever the situation, then they win of course.  Concede or accept destruction if you miscalculate, get taken out and they call for death.  (see Corpsetaker...at least until Ghost Story)

If your PC's have a bad encounter where the players (as opposed to characters) are frustrated, then it's important to change tone while you figure out what happened.  That's one reason I like the ghouls as secondary opposition, and red court trying to "team up" vs a third party...they give some easier, more straightforward physical conflicts for players to feel good about when they show off and win, after maybe getting dinged up a bit.

If your players (or a specific player) don't react well when faced with competent, super-smart opposition, fade that out of the campaign as a primary threat, or keep the focus of such threats on the PCs that are having fun with it.   You want to give the Players what they asked for.  DFRPG/Fate is unusually good about signaling what kind of story they want with their aspects.   Seriously, if they turn out to not like "temptation of power" when they experience it in play they can signal that by changing aspects on an upcoming milestone, or can talk to you about what they meant when they wrote it down if they were expecting something more like "being powerful and being tempted to misuse it" instead of "being offered power in a variety of ways tough to turn down" so you can shift focus.

52
DFRPG / Re: PC Balancing Issues - Need Advice
« on: August 15, 2014, 01:52:06 PM »
The goal is to make all options entertaining, success or failure.  Failure just leads to deeper stories.

The problem in a game like DFRPG is that the opposition ranges from a plain, ordinary thug or police or bystander who doesn't understand to literal gods.

It's a thing in this series, a lot of why the stories are entertaining, to have opposition, older, wiser, more powerful and beat them anyway.  But you don't get that level of satisfaction without earning it.   Cowl isn't Cowl because he scared Harry the first time he met.  He's Cowl because Harry foiled his plans and every time they've met again, Cowl's avoided direct confrontation and STILL nearly killed Harry, plus accomplished something, even if not his primary goals.   Marcone's picked a different arc.  Mavra a third.  Nicodemus a fourth.

The sign you are on the right track is when players are emotionally engaged in the bad guy.  Marcone's become a frenemy, a much more interesting outcome than Harry blasting him to ash after he "lost" a soulgaze in the first book.  Harry never got Cowl, but Cowl's so badass that his "minions" are all at about Harry's weight, so he got the satisfaction of getting the other Kemmlerites the first time, the White Court (cripes, most of its leadership) the second time and Peabody the third time.   Mavra's an example where the GM maybe pushed it too far, and having her permanently exit the game in favor of the Nickleheads was a good move.  There was no way to make Mavra's conflict more interesting, Harry's final threat was convincing - it was the player saying he'd make a campaign altering move, possibly ending move, if he saw her again, just to kill her.   The Denarians, by contrast, again have tiers of opposition - we go from merely foiling the plan and defeating one of the minions to pretty much wiping out all of the second tier and perma-killing one or two of their most dangerous human hosts to, well, spoilers.   That story isn't over, and it looks like it may be Michael's story more than Harry's anyway.

This is why I wanted the corpse-swap trick to be an important plot point.  The PC's have advanced against the Kemmlerite in an important way when they force that tactic.  It's a reveal as big as when Cowl and the ghouls got called in, or when Peabody was revealed at the trial.  Changes the whole nature of the conflict, so the players should feel some accomplishment even if the big bad gets away to return someday....even gives  them some hooks on how to go after the Kemmlerite instead of just reacting.

The Red Court plot, by contrast, is an attempt to set up a Marcone-like situation with a side of venom addiction.  Since the path to freedom is clear (live a righteous life) and that's a primary conflict of the character, the player signed up for this kind of plot (just as the White Council player with a temptation of power trouble signed up to be tempted and manipulated by his desires, much as Harry was).

You can do a whole story or campaign without super-competent opposition.  But if you're going to bring in the nobility of the Red or White courts, black court that are old enough to have survived the purges, first generation Kemmler disciples, or non-thug Denarians, your players are going to EXPECT them to be super-competent and be just as let down if behave like a street-corner thug in planning and preparation.  The primary difference between a recurring villain and one that's just there to show how awesome the PC's are and is forgotten the next day is the former knows when to concede or retreat, and does it MUCH earlier.  Give PCs enough time in a fight and they'll win.  Also in DFRPG, losing isn't what it is in other games.  If you miscalculate and your super-competent NPC wins, presumably the PCs were formidable enough to earn respect and then you go with the recruitment offers, or the using them as bait to draw in others, etc, something that furthers the story.     

Hell, losing is a heck of a way to learn about the opposition.  DFRPG greatly supports that trope, if the player's ok with bad things happening to his character before being rescued or escaping somehow.  Seriously, Harry's player has a very strong stomach for that, more than most people.   The game won't work as well if PC's aren't willing to concede sometimes, and GMs are encouraged to show the way by having their bad guys concede, to show it isn't the end of the world.

53
DFRPG / Re: PC Balancing Issues - Need Advice
« on: August 15, 2014, 12:51:19 AM »
  Being that he isn't living righteously, I think his faith would do little to protect him. 

Yeah, that's a pretty good approach to work around the faith protection.  Gives him a nice out too, he can overcome the addiction later by living more righteously and having the holy burn it out of his system (or at least start the road to recovery from any consequences).

I think the basic approach of putting as many ways to get venom around him WITHOUT throwing down against him is sound.  Preserves the resources of the Red Noble, gets him used to thinking of Reds as allies, etc, which should open a lot of opportunities for eventual addiction if the first attempt doesn't succeed.  A RC Noble is long lived, patience is going to be in the mix - even a "brash young lord" is probably a few hundred years old and "needs to prove something in a hurry" is still likely measured in months or years, not hours or days.

Ghouls are a good counterpoint to the two mastermind types, gives some straightforward opposition to burn off tension or frustration.   

Only risk  I see is that with so much attention given to these two characters, the rest of the PCs better be given something pretty cool to do in the ghoul fight, something that pushes their buttons, to share the spotlight and such around, and to distract from the more subtle maneuvering.

54
DFRPG / Re: PC Balancing Issues - Need Advice
« on: August 15, 2014, 12:45:25 AM »
Ok.  Your Kemmlerite needs to be in the room with the WC wizard to get the maximum payoff (blood).  If you're a body switcher, the obvious last ditch escape plan is to have another person within line of sight when you take the big risk, or  hell, better, have their hair or something which lets you switch when they aren't even in the room. 

If the WC wizard reacts badly to the attempt to get blood, and it looks like he'll do something you can't easily talk yourself out of or escape by other means. swap with the other body, while he's threatening/interrogating the poor schmuck that is now inside your former body.

Totally in character, totally fair.  If you escape by more normal means (talking your way out, physically escaping, winning a throwdown) fine and good, but if the wizard gets the better of you, his big reward is learning that you're a body-switcher, assuming he doesn't just kill the poor schmuck you swapped with (he probably won't, as you are mortal too, hence lawbreaker but he could have a gun or knife or something).

So you've got 3 conditions, all interesting.  1, you get the blood and Plan A is in operation, 2, you don't but manage to escape via physical or social talents that don't give anything away, and maybe pushed him into a little necromancy trying to stop you 3, you are forced to resort to your emergency body-swap spell (preferably done as an enchanted item or potion to make it nearly impossible to prevent without foreknowledge of such a power) and he learns you can DO that.  So now he knows if he really wants to stop you he'll have to have to shut that down...which again might tempt him into necromancy as an obvious counter.  Plus he has to be paranoid about anyone he encounters, because it might be you.

Plus a bunch of other options where he ends up willingly going to the dark side and working with your necromancer, just cause he wants the power or is convinced via social interaction.

55
DFRPG / Re: PC Balancing Issues - Need Advice
« on: August 14, 2014, 11:14:50 PM »
The trick is to teach them to tie the noose around their necks themselves. Once you've got that figured out, it's a smooth ride. ;)

A long time ago, I ran a Traveller campaign, and there was a little book of adventure seeds.  One went something like this "while leaving the planet the PCs are framed for smuggling and release is contingent on infiltrating local pirates...."

Well...my PC's had in FACT smuggled stuff onto the planet and were trying to smuggle more stuff out.  Frame them hell.  They were guilty :)   Some plot hooks are easier than others.

56
DFRPG / Re: PC Balancing Issues - Need Advice
« on: August 14, 2014, 11:09:18 PM »

From what you say though, my Kemmlerite should have at least 2, if not more, contingency plans in place to ensure that even if he can't seduce the White Council PC into necromancy, that he can still complete his ritual, and if not that, have a couple plans for escape.


This sort of planning is most important on really long lived folks who also have experienced a lot of life and death situations.  So Mavra, a rare black court survivor, is shown as thinking really hard about Dresden when her scourge comes to town.  She fills the place with mortals, arms them with a variety of things difficult to defend against, puts out a decoy to "die" and actually spends the whole fight veiled and upstairs, taking pictures, so all the really destructive things that occur downstairs don't touch her AND she learns even more about Dresden and his allies - which she uses later to get her hands on Kemmler's book and eliminate anybody but Dresden who might have read it....

That's a very convincing portrayal of an intelligent survivor, maximizing her own abilities and limiting the scope of her enemies, using mostly resources she doesn't care about.

So if your Kemmlerite is somebody like that, someone who survived perhaps the White Council war on his former master and the hunting down of disciples, he's not going to try to seduce a White Council wizard without a damn good backup plan.

OTOH, there has to be a pretty big payoff to risk involving a WC wizard, so his alternative to do the darkhallow-thingie must either also be hazardous or it'll be less effective or, if neither, he's getting big fate point compulsions from aspects to involve THAT wizard in spite of an adequate alternative....in which case he'll be doing the alternative with a big wad of fate points in hand if the WC wizard does try to interfere.

At a bare minimum, his escape plan should be solid, or it isn't credible that he survived this long.  A perfectly adequate precaution is to not seduce the WC wizard in person.  The simple expedient of a phone call, or a letter writing campaign helps quite a bit, although they have the downside of being liable to interception, so maybe the mail drops off a stone and ritual instructions for the communication spell.  Or you work through surrogates that you can afford to lose, etc.   A WC wizard is mostly dangerous in line of sight, or with a connection to you that you don't know about.   Don't do the seduction with either of those things available (if using a ritual stone for communication, rig it so if very much power goes through it fries the connection, etc).

Now to kill two birds in one stone, have your flunkies be signaled when the WC wizard contacts you, so while you're doing the "come to the dark side" seduction, your minions are doing the apartment complex raids etc....ensuring that wizard won't interfere with minions not up to his weight class.

Red court noble has another problem - they tend to be long lived and cunning.  Again, best way to deal with a Fist of Yahweh is to introduce the venom while you are nowhere near the situation.  Spike his drink or his food, or send some flunky who has displeased you to try to introduce the venom addiction....I'm dubious that the venom would work very well on a True Faith type character given red court catch, but maybe the Noble's trying under the principle of "you never know until you try".

One payoff for clever PC actions is to maybe get in the same room with either of the manipulators to force a physical confrontation, where normally neither would get caught out that way.   Eg, the WC wizard insists on personal instruction out of a claimed fear of wardens and an insufficient skills with magical detection and veils to ensure privacy without his "mentor" helping, then sets up some kind of ambush.   The Kemmlerite then might enter a hornet nest of PC nastiness, but still should have a lot of routine items/potions/thaumaturgical aspects and basic all purpose escape and combat plans for ambushes.....I dislike "he escapes in black box text" type fiat ambush failures...I want it to fit the mechanics of the game.  DFRPG/Fate is easier than most because of the concession mechanic, but it still works better if everyone can believe their character would fail to catch the bad guy via the rules of the game, however expressed.

What I have found satisfying is when somebody like that has a realistic set of contingencies for an ambush, ANY ambush, not just the PC's (just look how much better Dresden got after a few years at war).   If caught in an ambush, a character like that doesn't fight.  He runs (see Nicodemus, pretty much always when at a disadvantage).  If the PCs have a really, really good plan, maybe they learn some cool new tricks for their own use later, and if they can compel the right aspects they might be able to keep the person in one place long enough to take them down...but it should feel like a hell of an accomplishment, and PC's should end the fight feeling like the dog that caught the wildcat...

57
DFRPG / Re: PC Balancing Issues - Need Advice
« on: August 14, 2014, 01:19:07 PM »
I have a number of tricks for modeling superhuman intelligence I've acquired over the years, but the first two rules are the simplest.

1.  If I'm really that smart, why am I in a position where PC's can fight me at all?  (the answer had better involve amazing motivation or incredibly bad luck or a hell of a lot of work by the PC's to get them in that position or some kind of gambit where win or lose the current conflict, the smart character wins in the end).  Also what are their 5-6 options for escaping if things go south?  If they're that smart and lived that long, they'll have some, and in a game like DFRPG, concessions combined with a really clever escape plan that impresses the players (and earns grudging respect from the characters) add a lot to the game.

2.  Make sure you have system mastery of at least the circumstances of the fight.  This is especially true if they're not merely brilliant, but also experienced.    The character should have anticipated much of the circumstances and allowed for it, even if they didn't expect the PCs to be there (if they did, expect answers to each Catch and hammering on aspects if they'd have any way of knowing about either, counters to the most potent, known offensive abilities, etc)...but even without knowing PCs might intervene, a spellcasting Denarian's going to have potions, enchanted items, pre-cast spells running, delcarations or similar maneuvers cast offscreen as an edge and one or two brutally effective approaches to combat that should work against a wide variety of enemies that should prove helpful, including access to some of the more common "catch" stuff...eg, they'll know where all the iron is on the scene if a fey shows up, and will have the lore to rapidly identify them as Fey if they don't know already.

For a really good example of what brilliance+experience on both sides looks like, consider the fight of the Archive vs most of the Denarians.  She and Kincaid killed most of them, had a plan for most situations but in the end, even with Harry failing to be distracted out of the fight, they accomplished their objective.  Brilliant on both sides = bloodbath but also layers within layers of defenses that get exposed as one side gets defeated and it tears away most of the contingencies and plans of the attacker in doing so.

If you can't answer #1 and #2, the highly intelligent/experienced individual is best left offscreen until you've had time to think it through and learn more about the game system.  You can have brutally effective ambushes done via minions (which can fail in execution because the minions aren't as brilliant), or some NPC that the PC's already respect defeated off-camera or similar to build tension and reputation, or attacks in social arena (a whispering campaign, or something like what Mavra did, blackmailing Dresden with something Murphy actually did that was wrong...)

Now not all Denarians rate this treatment.  Those that don't care about their hosts and have pride or overconfidence as part of their fallen nature (think Magog) consider losing their host the cost of doing business, and spend a lot of time wrapped in white hankies.  Those guys will mostly have some brutally effective tactics but will stay and fight until defeated if you poke on their aspects a little...they don't seem to think of defense much.

58
DFRPG / Re: PC Balancing Issues - Need Advice
« on: August 13, 2014, 12:02:37 AM »
The way Binder works in the books, is that he can have as many summons as he wants out of combat (he summons pretty quickly) to some limit likely based on skills/focus items/etc or even more likely by high concept or other aspect, but in combat he summons one dude per exchange.

That doesn't look like Evothaum to me at all.  That looks like plain old Rituals, where he's just banging out a whatever level of shifts he can generate based on his conviction, complexity based on his skills, without fussing with circles, declarations, blah blah blah.

Just give him rituals, decent conviction, decent lore, focus items to boost both so each exchange he can pop out a dude for a scene and call it done.  You don't get tired with rituals if you don't burn power higher than your conviction.  He can always burn some mental stress and tag an aspect or something if he wants to bang out more than one guy per exchange.

59
DFRPG / Re: Speedster?
« on: August 11, 2014, 02:38:06 PM »
Chronomancy doesn't break the 6th law unless you go back in time, unless the wardens are being jerks.  Chronomancy for speed is still going forward, just slower.

Any power where you're able to generate a lot of offense risks breaking the first law...flash-level superspeed is certainly in that category.

But yeah, if you want to play Dr Who, you're best off playing somebody who is already a monster, not a half-breed, scion, emissary etc.  In DFRPG though, expect your high concept and any other aspects to get a lot of compels...the whole point of mortals is they can change who they are.  If you don't have a bit of mortal, it's going to be a pretty static character in a lot of ways, so you'll want to figure out what sort of thing you'll do when you hit milestones and whether you're comfortable with a character that reacts to shattering events by being more of who they already are.  It's certainly doable, but it's a more alien character than most PC concepts.

(it's not like other genres don't have this problem, too, but the immutability of any being of the never-never compared to mortals is unusually strong in Dresdenverse.  OTOH, there is some plasticity - Toot Toot is clearly changing into something more like a Sidhe, but most of the plasticity is seen as toxic...it's why the Denarians fell from being angels, it's a major plot point with the Ladies, etc).

While you can get some political protection if you belong to another faction, that's limited unless you BECOME that faction - while Elaine, if exposed as Justin's pupil, as Emissary of Summer wasn't going to have her head taken off by a warden until the political crisis was over, the moment she was merely a ward they'd have gone after her, it would have only been a matter of a death payment and they might have done it anyway..  Had Elaine been a changeling, similar.  Had she been a changeling sorceress who became, say, a Selkie, or turned by the Red Court the Wardens would have no excuse at all to go after her, and likely wouldn't risk it unless they were at war with the nation.

Thing is though, the political protection if you're still mortal doesn't protect you from the universe.  You'll still have to spend refresh on lawbreaker, although again, if I wanted to play a Time Lord, I'd likely WANT 3 refresh spent on 6th law.  +3 to time travel stuff is right up their alley.

60
DFRPG / Re: Convention games/one shots?
« on: August 10, 2014, 03:57:21 PM »
I've always had an issue with convention games and fate - the aspects are so personal and important to the character that I find it hard to pick up a pregen and do much with it - I actually had an easier time working with consequences taken in play than anything on the sheet.

This is probably a personal flaw...other folks may be fine with pregens in DFRPG, but the way I've handled this problem as a GM at a convention in games with similar issues is to find a scenario where people could bring in their favorite characters, perhaps reskinned to a certain power level  (eg, Chest Deep in DFRPG,  60 years old in Ars Magica, 8th level in Pathfinder or 3.5 D&D) and have it be ok. 

You have to have a scenario that provides a strong hook to involve diverse characters, and that doesn't depend on any particular character type or build to succeed (this is actually easier in Fate type games than most).  As a GM you also need to have a high degree of confidence in your ability to manage table variation - you may not agree with the cost of a catch or something but I've found it's best to just trust players - if you extend trust most won't abuse it and those that will are going to likely be disruptive in some other way anyway.

The largest issue with running any Fate game this way is that players need to be better at drawing their aspects to your attention.  OTOH, they will...these are their favorite characters, sometimes with years of history.  My biggest issue GMing fate is keeping track of all the aspects, and not having to remember the players very well is actually a benefit.

DFRPG is a shared world, so it's not hard to imagine a team-up between characters from different "cities" (campaigns), and the never-never allows for inclusion of even alternate reality versions if you need to.   Fate Core or FAE, being genre-neutral would need some mechanism like "the locals tried to summon the greatest avatars of law from space and time...and unfortunately for them, they ended up with you guys" to allow some concepts to be at the same table.  (in that game, which just used a homebrew system to approximate the characters on the fly we had a Judge from the Judge Dredd universe, a Lensman, a Pendragon knight (they had power of high and low justice), a pulp hero lawyer similar to the Doc Savage aid Ham, a Legion of Superheroes character...you get the idea...players built their characters in play based on what in Fate would be their high concept, but pulled them from strong external sources so most of the table could accept what they could or could not do)


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