ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Yuillegan on August 23, 2020, 04:49:33 AM
-
Jim said we know who's Bob's parents where when asked about whether he was similar to Bonnie etc.
He also said he thought it was obvious.
So assuming Bob is like Bonnie, you need at least one big supernatural parent. But not necessarily a mortal as the other (although I'd bet it is).
Bonnie is a curious mix of Dresden and a shadow of a Fallen Angel. She displays mostly traits that are similar to Maggie, but also the knowledge of her parents is clear (particularly from Lash).
If Bob is somewhere between 600 and a 1000 years old, and we have met his parents, they aren't likely to be mortal...at least anymore. Only one mortal we know of is that old (that is human) - Rashid.
He has a skewed ethical compass, an obsession with sex, an alter ego that is cruel and terrifying, and above all no matter which personality is in charge he ALWAYS resents authority. He is also fairly nerdy.
A fair amount of that can be attributed to Dresden's influence, and perhaps to some degree Butters (and of course Evil Bob can be attributed at least in part to Kemmler). But what was "Bob" like before he met Kemmler? And how much does the current owner change him from his original foundation?
Considering he is a spirit of air, his strange association with Winter and his fear of Mab in particular, not to mention his other traits I would guess that Mab (or at least the being inside the Mab mantle) was his Mother (she is the Queen of Air and Darkness after all), and his father....Vadderung? The OG Merlin is also a possibility, but that would mean we have already met him...
What are your guesses?
-
Jokingly: Well, I guess this confirms the "Harry travels back in time to become Merlin" theory.
Seriously though, I would guess Lea instead of Mab. She's a muse known for driving men insane with boink desires. Would certainly explain where Bob got his... drives. *shivers in fear* No idea on the father... unless Lea's blush and straightening of her dress at the end of Changes was a clue about a past fling she had with Vaderung(and not just her "negotiating quite vigorously" I think were her words?)?
-
The British Prisoner is probably old enough to be Bob’s dad and we know he isn’t Merlin. The fixation on sex I hadn’t previously considered but fits, especially if his father was the previous Winter Knight, Tam Lin, who escaped the Mantle enraging his Queen. Protective custody.
Knowing the whole Mexican soap opera that is Harry’s life, it is Tam Lin, he is an ancestor of Harry’s (Eb’s Grandfather or great grandfather for symmetry with Harry and Bonea) meaning that Bob is his uncle (by several removes). Frankly this interpretation would require Jim to have set up a 20 book series over several decades just to make this pun. If so my hat is off to him, well done sir. It would also mean Bob and Bonea are related, she is his niece many times removed.
I mean it’s not as if Little Orphan Harry discovers previously unknown relatives willy nilly, well not except for Thomas, Eb, Maggie and Bonny...... I mean next thing you know he will find his long lost evil identical twin brother. Oh right.
-
Conspiracy Theorist -
OMG.
You are so right. Butcher COULD NOT resist a good pun like that. Bob's your uncle....heaven's to Betsy I am sure you are right. How did I miss that?
But then I would change my guess to Ebeneezer and Lara. Sex and Wizardry. Would literally make him Harry's uncle. The timing is wrong in terms of Bob's age...but we don't know Harry's full family tree or any time travel stuff. So anything's possible. But you're guess is as good as any.
HA! That's the next book ;)
Smaug - Lol I hope so. I mean it's almost certain Dresden goes back in time. What I wonder more about is whether he will go forward in time...
Yeah, Leah's a good runner up. But I think there is a WOJ (making my previous assumption wrong) that you need a mortal and a supernatural entity. So it would be Lea AND (insert mortal). Maybe all those Eb and Leah theories are true! I mean, Eb has basically done everything that Harry has done only better and scarier.
OR crazy crack theory...Kemmler is Malcolm's father and ALSO the sire of Bob...with Mab. But that's absurd.
-
Gatekeeper seems like a good dad for a spirit of intellect, and he has plenty of interaction with the Fae side for any Lea/Mab guesses. Plus he's technically old enough.
Of the two, I consider Mab more likely to have tragically loved, while Lea seems more all-vicious-Fae-all-the-time. But then her daughter hasn't died on-screen.
And of course, if Bob is Mab's child, would he need to be so afraid? She went out of her way for Maeve... I suppose technically Titania could be thrown in, as Bob is occasionally passionate where Mab emphatically is not.
Ancient Mai is just about the only human female who might somehow be involved, but we barely know her... of course one of the Gards could be the mother pre-ascenscion to Valkyrie-hood, but again, we basically know nothing.
So my guesses to sum up:
Father (human):
The Gatekeeper
The British prisoner (see previous posts) in his real identity, whichever that is.
Mother (supernatural):
Mab
Lea
Titania?
-
I believe that some degree of mental interaction by an immortal magic user is required, that would fit Lash, but not Lara. It is interesting that Lash acted exactly as a muse for Harry in playing guitar, allowing him to perfectly pull off a piece of music of his composition.
A muse stimulates creative output in a mortal, and whilst sex is associated with it, Lara in feeding does the opposite, she doesn’t add, she subtracts.
It’s a stretch as regards Tam Lin but his story has been dropped like a breadcrumb in the same book I think as the Prisoner.
-
One thing to keep in mind in thinking about Bob's parents: There's no reason at all to think that gender applies.
The three things needed seem to be:
1) Mortal (soul donor and skull womb)
2) Information pattern/Magical Artificial Intelligence
3) An act of selfless love between 1 and 2.
-
One of the parents must have been a spiritual entity without a body with the ability to possess or infect someone. That rules out the gatekeeper and Man because those two would just get a normal changeling child.
-
One of the parents must have been a spiritual entity without a body with the ability to possess or infect someone. That rules out the gatekeeper and Man because those two would just get a normal changeling child.
Where do you get this from? On this basis Nemesis could be Bob’s parent.
-
Where do you get this from? On this basis Nemesis could be Bob’s parent.
On how Bonnie originated. Bob has a similar origin.
-
Bob could derive from a shadow- either Lash or Lasciel vould be considered Bonea's mother.
I'm playing with Lea and MacAnally. Lea being able to insert a "shadow" as part of her particular MO fits. Mac being so loquacious with Harry- for Mac- fits being a godfather. Lea also would then have forged a connection to Harry's via Bob, and Bob very well could spy for his mama on the side- on Kemmler, on Justin, on Harry.
-
Bonea.
Bonea could have split off some part of herself, assuming that she can do what Bob did. And it is the only time we have seen a spirit of air reproduce. And ultimately that makes his parents or maybe grandparents, Lash and Harry. Of course that would involve time travel. And that would never happen.
-
Where do you get this from? On this basis Nemesis could be Bob’s parent.
You can view the denarian shadow as an infection. You literally get a spiritual infection when you touch that coin.
-
If you view an infection as an act of love, please get yourself checked for STD’s.
Bonea exists only because Harry changed Lash, and in changing she grew to love Harry, and yes, Harry grew to love her back. That is why I think a purely spiritual entity is not capable of being a parent, remember Kash whilst a shadow was writ from Harry’s flesh. I doubt anyone, especially not Lash thought this was even possible, living proof a Fallen can be corrupted by love.
That is why someone like the Leanansidhe is a very likely candidate, both physical and spiritual, she gets into her partners minds and they love her, in return they have an increase in their creativity and the child is born of that act of love and creation. Bob likely has multiple half siblings. Lea has a real history of this.
Bonea is likely going to be more powerful than Bob, she has the knowledge of a Fallen Angel, Bob merely has the knowledge of a powerful Fae, although he has supplemented this with subsequently gained knowledge including that on the internet (although 90% is porn) levelling him up. For Bob and Bonea knowledge is power. I wouldn’t be surprised if Bob has absorbed Wikipedia, online thesis and research papers etc due to Butters. He may have an understanding of science equal to that of magic by now, and understand how they interrelate.
-
If you view an infection as an act of love, please get yourself checked for STD’s.
That is how it ended, not how it started. The entity that invaded Harry when he touched the coin, entered his spiritual self and brought temptations of power was not benign. It tried to damn Harry.
It was a form of demonic influence. Now we see illness often as some form of infection. In the past illness was often seen as demonic possession that must be driven out.
Bonea exists only because Harry changed Lash, and in changing she grew to love Harry, and yes, Harry grew to love her back. That is why I think a purely spiritual entity is not capable of being a parent,
But lash was a spiritual entity. It entered as a spiritual entity, a small part of Lasciel which is a spiritual entity as well. That coin is not really her body.
remember Kash whilst a shadow was writ from Harry’s flesh. I doubt anyone, especially not Lash thought this was even possible, living proof a Fallen can be corrupted by love.
Only her shadow. Which basically is a small spirit. It had some expression on Harry's body.
That is why someone like the Leanansidhe is a very likely candidate,
You mean leaving shadows in other people. Why would she do so? she does not need a host and can get real children the traditional way.
both physical and spiritual, she gets into her partners minds and they love her, in return they have an increase in their creativity and the child is born of that act of love and creation. Bob likely has multiple half siblings. Lea has a real history of this.
But Lea does not love them. Lasciel lost a significant part of her power and Lea would not willingly do so and certainly not many times.
-
Love is additive not subtractive in the Dresden universe, the capacity to love made Lash greater not less. I presume the same applies with a muse, Lea has probably been powering up herself this way for centuries, though I suspect she has been forbidden by Mab in recent years to avoid damaging the balance between the Courts. She never got busy with Harry. This is why she was pleased with the Athame, more power without breaking her word to Mab. Lea is more powerful than the Winter Lady, second only to Mab, the gift was to disturb that balance of power in the Court.
-
Love is additive not subtractive in the Dresden universe, the capacity to love made Lash greater not less. I presume the same applies with a muse, Lea has probably been powering up herself this way for centuries, though I suspect she has been forbidden by Mab in recent years to avoid damaging the balance between the Courts. She never got busy with Harry. This is why she was pleased with the Athame, more power without breaking her word to Mab. Lea is more powerful than the Winter Lady, second only to Mab, the gift was to disturb that balance of power in the Court.
But I suspect that to get a child like bonea the love must be in both parents so Lea is somewhat unlikely on that account too.
-
Check your folklore on the Leanansidhe, she is very loving, fully in the knowledge that he love is fatal.
-
Jim said we know who's Bob's parents where when asked about whether he was similar to Bonnie etc.
He also said he thought it was obvious.
So assuming Bob is like Bonnie, you need at least one big supernatural parent. But not necessarily a mortal as the other (although I'd bet it is).
Bonnie is a curious mix of Dresden and a shadow of a Fallen Angel. She displays mostly traits that are similar to Maggie, but also the knowledge of her parents is clear (particularly from Lash).
If Bob is somewhere between 600 and a 1000 years old, and we have met his parents, they aren't likely to be mortal...at least anymore. Only one mortal we know of is that old (that is human) - Rashid.
He has a skewed ethical compass, an obsession with sex, an alter ego that is cruel and terrifying, and above all no matter which personality is in charge he ALWAYS resents authority. He is also fairly nerdy.
A fair amount of that can be attributed to Dresden's influence, and perhaps to some degree Butters (and of course Evil Bob can be attributed at least in part to Kemmler). But what was "Bob" like before he met Kemmler? And how much does the current owner change him from his original foundation?
Considering he is a spirit of air, his strange association with Winter and his fear of Mab in particular, not to mention his other traits I would guess that Mab (or at least the being inside the Mab mantle) was his Mother (she is the Queen of Air and Darkness after all), and his father....Vadderung? The OG Merlin is also a possibility, but that would mean we have already met him...
What are your guesses?
I hope I have not missed it reading the posts, so sorry if someone already wrote that.
My immediate thought on Bob's parents was
Merlin & Demonreach
And Mab helping with the birth.
Mab saw potential power for herself through Bob. Bob escaped with Merlin's help. Thus Bob's fear of Mab.
Edit: and maybe somehow the reason for Merlin's imprisonment on the island IF he is the "British Prisoner".
-
It is not Merlin, we have not seen Merlin in series and he is confirmed WOJ that he is NOT the British Prisoner.
-
Check your folklore on the Leanansidhe, she is very loving, fully in the knowledge that he love is fatal.
But is that real love?
-
It is not Merlin, we have not seen Merlin in series and he is confirmed WOJ that he is NOT the British Prisoner.
It doesn't matter here who the prisoner is, that was just a side note. Really? Confirmed by woj? Where do I find that? (Edit: ok. Found it.)
And technically we have seen Merlin. Sort of. When Bob explains to Harry in the dumbed down dumbed down version how Demonreach was created. (Edit: he cast Alec Guinness LOL)
-
But is that real love?
Yes, but in the obsessive stalker type of love, which certainly fits the Lea we have seen.
-
We know why Bob's afraid of Mab. He told Harry in Cold Days. And having a relationship with a stone cold prison warden is like a day without sunshine. Ugh. We know how the Fae reproduce, Mother Summer told us and we have seen multiple examples. An obsessive stalker doesn't know the meaning of love and I'm pretty sure Lea doesn't. There are four spirit types discussed in the books. Shadows, Nemesis, the Archive and Bob.
-
I *think* for it to count as Love in the metaphysical Dresdenverse sense, it has to be an act of self-sacrifice, or at least putting someone else's wellbeing ahead of your own.
I'm not sure Lea is actually capable of that. It seems contrary to her fae nature.
-
But I am sure Lasciel doesn’t know the meaning of love either. What we are looking for is a spiritual entity that can actually love or an entity that for some reason can split of part of its power to enter a mortal which can be taught to love.
And it needs a reason to invest its power in the mortal. Lasciel needed a new host.
-
There are four spirit types discussed in the books. Shadows, Nemesis, the Archive and Bob.
Oh, no, there's lots.
I would say the major categories are:
- Ghosts
- Demons (the kind like Kalshazzak and Binder's minions, not Fallen)
- Spirits of emotions and concepts; the spirits of Rage that Hexenwolves and Lycanthropes bond with, and the Hunger spirits that live within White Court Vampires. Bob is a spirit of Intellect.
- Elemental spirits (overlapping with concepts); Harry references speaking to spirits of water and flame in Changes, and Bob is called an air spirit as well as a spirit of intellect.
- The actual Angels and Fallen, not just their shadows, are arguably spirits (depending on how the soul/spirit distinction works).
Ulsharavas (from DM) is a prophetic spirit allied to the Loa. The Loa themselves might be spirits, and so might various gods and other beings from different beliefs and mythologies around the world.
-
Indeed, essentially a spirit is an entity who is more in the spirit world than the mortal (but not necessarily physical) world. I think a good rule of thumb is to ask "could the entity cross a threshold without an invitation, and if so, how much of it's power would it leave behind?" and you can work it out. Ghosts, demons etc wouldn't be able to cross a threshold without an invitation, but White Court Vampires can. Black Court are a curious problem but that might be a Will thing as much as anything...although it could also be that the entity in the drivers seat of the meat suit that has the issue (assuming that is what happens with the Black Court).
But we are getting away from the point.
Bob's parents need an act of Love to create him. Which rules out most of the truly alien beings. I don't think Mab can feel love, but I do think that the being inside her mantle can (and indeed did, when she was merely mortal).
So the parings we have so far are:
1. Mab and Merlin (unlikely as he is dead and we haven't met him)
2. Merlin and Demonreach (unlikely due to the love requirement)
3. Leah and Eb
4. Lara and Eb
5. Mab (mortal - Morgana?) and Vadderung
6. Mab and Kemmler (as Michael's father...somehow)
7. Rashid and Mab
8. Tam Lin and Mab
I also might guess that the Archive (several generations back) and a mortal.
The fact both of his parents have been met rules out lots of individuals though. I think Summer and Winter are most likely something to do with the origin (Bob is gold like Summer and Evil Bob is cold and blue like Winter) but beyond that I am stumped.
-
Eb's not old enough, unless you've got him doing major Merlin-level time traveling to get it done.
-
Eb is too young, Bob is nearly 700 years older than Eb, same with Kemmler, and we haven’t met Kemmler, unless he is the British Prisoner, but Demonreach appears to have been without a Warden longer than his last death.
I have Lea and Tam Lin with Tam Lin as the British Prisoner. Mab and Tam Lin is a possibility but this may be before Mab became Queen, and I am not sure the Lady’s Mantle would allow this. Mab appears first in literature and not myth, Romeo and Juliet, the Tam Lin legend pre-dates this considerably. The Leanansidhe myth also pre-dates the first use of the name Mab. Mab was riding with William the Conqueror around the time Bob was born, presumably at this point she was the Lady if she was mortal and shacked up with Merlin several centuries earlier.
We know from the Tam Lin myth how he escaped from being Winter Knight, what myth doesn’t tell is why or how he became the Winter Knight other than he fell from his horse and was captured by the Queen. Mab parallels him to Harry, what if he had to make a similar bargain? He became Winter Knight to escape Lea’s attentions. Originally Harry owed Lea, his debt was bought out by Mab who kept dangling the Mantle until Harry wasn’t in a position to say no. Harry may not be the first time Lea and the Winter Queen have played such a game.
-
Eb's not old enough, unless you've got him doing major Merlin-level time traveling to get it done.
Yeah any theory involving Eb or Kemmler involves a certain amount of Time Travel.
Eb is too young, Bob is nearly 700 years older than Eb, same with Kemmler, and we haven’t met Kemmler, unless he is the British Prisoner, but Demonreach appears to have been without a Warden longer than his last death.
I have Lea and Tam Lin with Tam Lin as the British Prisoner. Mab and Tam Lin is a possibility but this may be before Mab became Queen, and I am not sure the Lady’s Mantle would allow this. Mab appears first in literature and not myth, Romeo and Juliet, the Tam Lin legend pre-dates this considerably. The Leanansidhe myth also pre-dates the first use of the name Mab. Mab was riding with William the Conqueror around the time Bob was born, presumably at this point she was the Lady if she was mortal and shacked up with Merlin several centuries earlier.
We know from the Tam Lin myth how he escaped from being Winter Knight, what myth doesn’t tell is why or how he became the Winter Knight other than he fell from his horse and was captured by the Queen. Mab parallels him to Harry, what if he had to make a similar bargain? He became Winter Knight to escape Lea’s attentions. Originally Harry owed Lea, his debt was bought out by Mab who kept dangling the Mantle until Harry wasn’t in a position to say no. Harry may not be the first time Lea and the Winter Queen have played such a game.
Tam Lin is Scottish though. The accents are very different. I heard Jim read out the part in Cold Days where Harry encounters the British prisoner and the accent is clearly meant to be rather Windsor (that is, royal). So I don't think it's likely he is the British prisoner. Now, if Tam Lin were Mac or something I could see it being him.
-
Love is additive not subtractive in the Dresden universe, the capacity to love made Lash greater not less. I presume the same applies with a muse, Lea has probably been powering up herself this way for centuries, though I suspect she has been forbidden by Mab in recent years to avoid damaging the balance between the Courts. She never got busy with Harry. This is why she was pleased with the Athame, more power without breaking her word to Mab. Lea is more powerful than the Winter Lady, second only to Mab, the gift was to disturb that balance of power in the Court.
true, but I keep coming back to cowl and wondering what would happen if he hadn't done this or that thing.. without the Athemes presence Mab would never have gotten her hooks in Harry, SK wouldn't have had him to stop Aurora, Maeve not getting Nfected means Molly would never have become WL, ect. Perhaps he's changing things for the better and we just don't realize it from our perspective..
-
The British Prisoner in Harry’s mind is like the rest of the inmates, a villain and what we get is a telepathic rather than actual voice, so processed by Harry’s mind he ascribes it a British accent. He has done the same with the Outsiders. Clearly Harry has watched too many films where the villain is a British Actor.
-
Good enough in-universe reason, Conspiracy Theorist.
However, the fact is that the author read it out in a British voice. Now Jim doesn't always do his homework but when it comes to Celtic Mythology the guy goes all out. We always have to consider these things from a Doylist perspective. He always describes how Ebeneezer's Scottish burr returns when he gets angry. Jim is aware and considerate of the differences. Believe me, if he wanted him to be Scottish he would have been called the Scottish prisoner.
Maybe another character in disguise is Tam Lin though. We can't rule that out yet.
-
Doesn't HHWBH have an English accent in Harry's flashback in GS too? 🤔
-
New candidate for Bob’s dad Michael Scot/Scotus 1175 – c. 1232, ‘The Wizard of the North’ his birth and death are unclear according to Wikipedia so he could predate his ‘birth’ by a couple of centuries if a White Court Wizard. This revised timeline would not only put him in the time slot to be Bob’s dad but it would put him in 1066 in time for the Battle of Stamford Bridge where Mother Winters Walking stick got stolen, which was Ango Saxons v Norwegians (Mab was with William the Conqueror) the Battle of Hastings took place 19 days later and the Anglo-Saxons lost to the Normans. Demonreach is the one place you can hide from the Mothers.
Scotus appears as a character in works by Dante and Sir Walter Scott, which is where Jim may have came across him. Sir Walter Scott wrote and collected ballads about Scot teaching magic to an ‘Evil Lord Soules’ and his familiar Robin Redcap. Yes that Redcap.
I intend to do a bit of research on this because one of the other ballads in the collection, Thomas The Rhymer pretty much exactly describes a recent WOJ as regards what happens when you get frisky with a Summer Lady, suggesting he is familiar with the collection or its source material.
The Tale of Tamlane (Tam Lin) is there as well, so both Summer and Winter Courts are represented. All three are part of Minstrelty of the Scottish Borders.
Sir Walter Scott also wrote Letters on Demonology and Witchcraft.
-
Some toughts/points
- Old (2009) WoJ about Bob: "He’s a thousand year old being, he’s not in a hurry" (
- The fact that Bob doesn't recognize Merlin-style magic suggests to me Merlin is probably not the father
- Could something like River Shoulders be the father?
- What about Mac?
- Mother Winter (not sure about "love")?
-
Some toughts/points
- Old (2009) WoJ about Bob: "He’s a thousand year old being, he’s not in a hurry" (
- The fact that Bob doesn't recognize Merlin-style magic suggests to me Merlin is probably not the father
- Could something like River Shoulders be the father?
- What about Mac?
- Mother Winter (not sure about "love")?
1. Would make the Mab/Morgana mother theory more likely.
2. Agreed.
3. I suppose a similar mortal-monster like River Shoulders could be. But wouldn't Bob be more like them?
4. Could be...except he seems rather too old. It seems like everyone knows him personally, and either like him or rather hate him. And again, Bob seems rather far removed from him.
5. I suppose it's possible, but what mortal would copulate with her? In any fashion? Wouldn't the act of connection with such a destructive being kill you? Also, I would expect Bob to be far more powerful in that case.
Conspiracy Theorist - When you said Michael Scot I cracked up. I could definitely see Bob in the Office. But what a strange version of that show it would be.
But good research, very interesting theory. I particularly like the Redcap connection.
Doesn't HHWBH have an English accent in Harry's flashback in GS too? 🤔
Indeed. But I always take that as part of Jim (and American writers in general) to make villains somewhat British. Presumably because people still aren't over a little dispute that happened a few hundred years ago. Oh well, what are you gonna do. Never see any villains with Canadian accent do you? Or New Zealander?
-
5. I suppose it's possible, but what mortal would copulate with her? In any fashion? Wouldn't the act of connection with such a destructive being kill you? Also, I would expect Bob to be far more powerful in that case.
Well, I don't think it would or could be anything physical (human + fae normally results in a Changeling, not a Spirit of Intellect).
And I don't know that Mother Winter is worse than an actual Fallen. There could be a Shadow of some sort involved, just as with Harry/Lash.
Also, just because Mother Winter has never retired, she wasn't necessarily always what she is now. If the Faerie Courts had a major realignment around the time of Hastings, her role/Mantle (and therefore her nature) might have been rather different before that.
-
I think the most important thing though is the statement about it being 'obvious'. To me that implies that not only does it have to be one immortal or ancient supernatural being and one semi-mortal (but old enough to qualify), but that there has to actually be some relationship or connection between them established.
The only ones I can think of that fit that are Odin / Gard, Merlin / Demonreach (if Bob's movie in CD qualifies him as 'appearing in the series'), and - at a stretch - HWWBehind / Lord Raith (but I *really* don't think Bob is half-Outsider).
There aren't that many semi-mortals over 1000 years old in the series, and a lot of them are Denarians who probably aren't qualified (any "shadow" they had would have been re-absorbed when they took up the Coin fully, so no chance of a Harry / Lash type situation).
River Shoulders has no established relationship with an immortal.
-
Conspiracy Theorist - When you said Michael Scot I cracked up. I could definitely see Bob in the Office. But what a strange version of that show it would be.
But good research, very interesting theory. I particularly like the Redcap connection.
I also think Jim may have mined W.B.Yeats work for inspiration, both Scott and Yeats were part of the Celtic revival and responsible for transcribing and tidying up traditional lays, ballards, poetry etc and those centre around the Sidhe, the Tuatha and the Fomor. It would fit in with both Jim’s education and inclinations, Tolkien academically mined a similar vein with Icelandic and Old English mythology.
Michael Scot’s travels and studies would allow for a crossover with the GateKeeper as well with his work in bringing Arabian mathematics to Europe. As a border man he he would be geographically adjacent to the Leanansidhes stomping grounds and he certainly was a creative individual, so I posit Michael Scott, the Wizard of the North as Bob’s father, currently in Demonreach and the Leanasidhe, his muse, as Bob’s mother, with Mab, Aurora or the GateKeeper as the midwife allowing him to survive.
The bit about him wearing an iron cap to protect against a prophecy of death by a falling object, well an iron cap would be useful I think against mental intrusion and influence by Fae, until Demonreach could protect him, especially if he did help steal The Black Staff, as he deserves to be there because he did something incredibly stupid (there was a woman involved).
The only drawback to this theory is that it’s a character whose name begins with ‘M’ and Jim never uses names beginning with that letter.
-
@Conspiracy theorist, Yea I love all the little things just from the second coming thrown in there.. like, I'm pretty sure events work on a gyre.. 🤔
-
Lord William de Soulis would make an excellent candidate for a previous Winter Knight, looking at his biography on Wikipedia, working hand in glove with the Redcap.
-
I was wondering if Bonea knows who her mother was, because she surely knows who her dad is. My guess is she has the information somewhere inside that massive memory of hers, but I don't know if that translates to knowing without digging through all of the memories Lash gave her. The reason I'm wondering about this is because if Bonea has this information then Bob should know who his parents were as well, even if he had to think about it for a while. This leads to the question of did the person who carried Bob's spirit survive the birth?
-
Well, I don't think it would or could be anything physical (human + fae normally results in a Changeling, not a Spirit of Intellect).
And I don't know that Mother Winter is worse than an actual Fallen. There could be a Shadow of some sort involved, just as with Harry/Lash.
Also, just because Mother Winter has never retired, she wasn't necessarily always what she is now. If the Faerie Courts had a major realignment around the time of Hastings, her role/Mantle (and therefore her nature) might have been rather different before that.
I wasn't suggesting a physical act of copulation...yeesh! More that Mother Winter isn't really a person. It's like connecting your mind and soul to destruction itself. Like connecting your brain to a nuclear reactor. It isn't going to go well.
The changeling problem is important. But that doesn't rule out a Fae parent either.
True, true. Hard to say what's worse. I suspect it wouldn't matter much as either Fallen or MW you would be equally dead (although you could argue about the damage to your soul). Depending on who she was might be the missing link.
I think the most important thing though is the statement about it being 'obvious'. To me that implies that not only does it have to be one immortal or ancient supernatural being and one semi-mortal (but old enough to qualify), but that there has to actually be some relationship or connection between them established.
The only ones I can think of that fit that are Odin / Gard, Merlin / Demonreach (if Bob's movie in CD qualifies him as 'appearing in the series'), and - at a stretch - HWWBehind / Lord Raith (but I *really* don't think Bob is half-Outsider).
There aren't that many semi-mortals over 1000 years old in the series, and a lot of them are Denarians who probably aren't qualified (any "shadow" they had would have been re-absorbed when they took up the Coin fully, so no chance of a Harry / Lash type situation).
River Shoulders has no established relationship with an immortal.
Bob didn't know Demonreach, and doesn't have a particularly Norse theme. He also didn't recognise Merlin's magic. So that should rule out most of that. I certainly don't see a particular White Court or Outsider theme. Harry would surely have recognised that!
Truth is the hints we have are many. But being a spirit of Air and intellect (and the fact that it is a known character we have met) almost certainly means Mab is his mother. It's whether she was Queen of Air and Darkness at the time, or whether she was merely the Lady or even mortal herself. Because all of that would decide whether Mab was the mortal in the relationship or whether she was the immortal.
So really we have to figure out the father. I think an If x, then y formula should do.
If Mab was mortal, then Vadderung (or one of his aspects) is most likely.
If Mab was immortal, then Merlin would be most likely.
However there are a few things that stand out.
Bob acts mostly like a horny teenager. So Harry has a had a strong effect from his youth. But when carried by Cowl or Corpsetaker he acts cold and ruthless and sadistic...but always somewhat insouciant.
So in someways, the mortal he resembles most, is Id-Harry.
-
Eb is too young, Bob is nearly 700 years older than Eb, same with Kemmler, and we haven’t met Kemmler.
He was in A Fistful of Warlocks.
Here's Jim's quote:Wow, really? I thought it was obvious.
Both of Bob's parents have appeared in the Dresden Files. :)
My interpretation of "appeared in the Dresden Files" is more like anyone mentioned than one who Harry, or whichever pov character of a short story, has met.
Now Jim doesn't always do his homework but when it comes to Celtic Mythology the guy goes all out.
Cat Sith is pronounced with the Star Wars pronunciation in the books. It should be pronounced the same as, or at least close to, Sidhe. Jim's not always on point with pronunciations. He's admitted so himself. He says there are a lot of words he's only ever read. Cat Sith pronunciation source: https://www.timberbush-tours.co.uk/news-offers/scottish-folklore-cat-sith-cu-sith (https://www.timberbush-tours.co.uk/news-offers/scottish-folklore-cat-sith-cu-sith).
... as he deserves to be there ...
With the description of the imprisoning process, the one that the British Prisoner went through, we know that any serious player who has "victims" and a conscious would likely have a great deal of guilt because they would have experienced all the suffering they caused. This could alter how "bad" the British Prisoner is.
As to Bob being 1,000 years old, there's a bit of contradictory evidence with Bob stating that he has about 600 years worth of memory. He also says the lost about 100 years of memory when he excised Evil Bob. He had already destroyed some of his memory of his time with Kemmler. But Bob was only with Kemmler for about 40 years, so years of memory is a very squishy measurement of time.
But being a spirit of Air and intellect ... almost certainly means Mab is his mother. ...
but always somewhat insouciant.
I don't see how being a spirit of air and intellect means Mab because of Lash being Bonea's parent.
I don't think Bob was insouciant with Kemmler, but Bob also didn't like who he was when Kemmler had him; Kemmler twisted him, so it's not really an objection to insouciance as a key character trait of Bob.
-
Cat Sith is pronounced with the Star Wars pronunciation in the books. It should be pronounced the same as, or at least close to, Sidhe. Jim's not always on point with pronunciations. He's admitted so himself. He says there are a lot of words he's only ever read. Cat Sith pronunciation source: https://www.timberbush-tours.co.uk/news-offers/scottish-folklore-cat-sith-cu-sith.
Yeah I remember that. I don't think it's much of a benchmark of how strong Jim's research is though. And it hardly proves the British prisoner is Scottish or Welsh or whatever. Unless you have information otherwise?
In any case, Jim clearly knows the difference between a Scottish and British accent. See the stuff about Ebeneezer getting mad.
I don't see how being a spirit of air and intellect means Mab because of Lash being Bonea's parent.
I don't think Bob was insouciant with Kemmler, but Bob also didn't like who he was when Kemmler had him; Kemmler twisted him, so it's not really an objection to insouciance as a key character trait of Bob.
Never said anything about Lash...?
Mab is Queen of Air and Darkness. She is also known to be the incredibly, coldly calculating and highly logical Queen. Intellect...Air...character we have met...Bob is blue like Winter when in his most cold and calculating form...any of that piecing together?
The facts are limited. But I have yet to hear of an Immortal that matches Bob better.
I didn't say he was insouciant with Kemmler, either. I said he was insouciant. I have no idea how he interacted with Kemmler. But like Harry, he pretty much mocks everyone he encounters. He rebels against authority.
Well, the Bob that Harry knew didn't like who he was with Kemmler. But that was more to do with who owned the skull I think. I doubt Evil Bob didn't like himself when he was with Kemmler or Cowl.
-
Yeah I remember that. I don't think it's much of a benchmark of how strong Jim's research is though.
It does show that his research often misses things that are apparent in Celtic Mythology. I'm not arguing he point that he doesn't know the difference between a Scottish and English accent. (I say English instead of British because of the comment about Jim's reading of the passage with a specific English accent. I would note that a Welsh or Scottish accent could also be considered British).
Never said anything about Lash...?
My point is that Lash has nothing to do with the element Air, and she had an air spirit baby. Therefore, I don't think Mab being the Queen of Air and Darkness means anything in regards to who is one of the parents of a spirit of intellect.
I didn't say he was insouciant with Kemmler, either. I said he was insouciant.
You said he was always insouciant. If he's always insouciant, then he was insouciant with Kemmler. I'm just saying that I don't think he was. The reason is Harry's interactions with Bob when Bob tries to kill him and Evil Bob in GS. In the basement scene, he seemed quite devoted to "the Master." Probably slavishly. In the GS interaction, he had contempt for Corpsetaker and seemed to have reverence for Kemmler.
Well, the Bob that Harry knew didn't like who he was with Kemmler. But that was more to do with who owned the skull I think.
I don't think so because Bob locked away the memories on his own initiative. He got rid of them when Harry ordered it.
-
It does show that his research often misses things that are apparent in Celtic Mythology. I'm not arguing he point that he doesn't know the difference between a Scottish and English accent. (I say English instead of British because of the comment about Jim's reading of the passage with a specific English accent. I would note that a Welsh or Scottish accent could also be considered British).
We have always referred to the character as the British Prisoner, because Harry encountered a prisoner with a British accent. It could be that a Scottish or Welsh accent could be considered a British accent...except by the Welsh and Scottish. But those wounds are very old. But the accent Jim read it in, the one he would have had in his head (mostly) when he wrote it, was English and quite a posh accent at that. Which suggests he wasn't thinking it was a Scottish character, or even a lower class character. Beyond that, who knows?
My point is that Lash has nothing to do with the element Air, and she had an air spirit baby. Therefore, I don't think Mab being the Queen of Air and Darkness means anything in regards to who is one of the parents of a spirit of intellect.
Did she? Do we have confirmation of that i.e. that Bonnie is an air spirit? A spirit of intellect she may be but beyond that...
You said he was always insouciant. If he's always insouciant, then he was insouciant with Kemmler. I'm just saying that I don't think he was. The reason is Harry's interactions with Bob when Bob tries to kill him and Evil Bob in GS. In the basement scene, he seemed quite devoted to "the Master." Probably slavishly. In the GS interaction, he had contempt for Corpsetaker and seemed to have reverence for Kemmler.
But I qualified it "when carried by Cowl or Corpsetaker". But you're getting bogged down in minutia. He might be devoted to the Master, but he indeed was contemptible of Capiocorpus and even a bit challenging to Cowl (although much less so). I suspect part of his respect to Kemmler was due to the fact Kemmler could eat him. And indeed, even Mab respected Kemmler for his mind.
I don't think so because Bob locked away the memories on his own initiative. He got rid of them when Harry ordered it.
Well, maybe he did. I mean, it's not like Justin would have wanted access to those memories or all that dark knowledge. He wasn't in to any sort of dark rituals or anything... ;)
My guess is that Justin ordered him to behave a certain way around others if discovered, like by Harry. Perhaps even when introduced to Harry in the first place. Maybe even young Justin wasn't strong enough to manage the full power of the spirit when he first encountered it. Perhaps the "Bob" persona was created in order to control the spirit more easily.
-
Did she? Do we have confirmation of that i.e. that Bonnie is an air spirit? A spirit of intellect she may be but beyond that...
I've always understood spirit of intellect and and spirit of air to be interchangeable terms.
-
It might be. But I don't think it's ever explicit.