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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Brak on July 14, 2020, 10:53:01 PM

Title: Some Thoughts **Spoilers for Peace Talks**
Post by: Brak on July 14, 2020, 10:53:01 PM

Hello. Long time lurker. First time poster.

I had some thoughts about Peace Talks and no one to share them with (or get feedback from) so I thought I would post here.

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1. Where was Bob during all of this? Is he still with Butters? Couldn't they just asked him really quick about conjuritis? It must be a plot point yet to be revealed. Maybe in Battle Ground? It seems so odd that they didn't even think of asking him.

2. Does anybody else get the feeling that the reason that Thomas kept saying "Justine" or trying to was that she may have something to do with all of this? Lara brought up that somehow information inside the house was being leaked. I think the offhand comment Goodman Grey made about the person Dresden wanted him to protect was a femme fatale and Harry denying it might have been a mislead because everybody likes Justine. She was in fomor territory on a job for Lara. Maybe she was infected by Nemesis while she was there. If so, maybe she put pressure on Thomas to do the job or else she would do something to affect Harry. Possibly reveal their secret? Maybe that was the treachery that Eb was mentioning might happen. She would be one of the people you'd least expect. It's also unknown if Luccio told the Black Council about Harry's relationship with Thomas before all the warden mind stuff was figured out.
Either way, I think Paranoid Gary might help solve the Thomas/Justine mystery.

3. Weren't the Denarians part of the accords? Were they kicked out of it after the Marcone incident?

4. What happened to Ivy when all this big stuff started happening? Wouldn't Ethniu look at her, too, if she were there? Knowledge is power.

5. Won't it be interesting to see who is a "monster" or not based on Butter's sword later? I have a feeling that it will be used as a litmus test in the next book

Title: Re: Some Thoughts **Spoilers for Peace Talks**
Post by: temporus on July 15, 2020, 06:45:49 AM

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Re: 3. In Skin Game, Nick specifically mentions that he left the Accords.

Re: 2.  Everyone in the book keeps assuming that Thomas is trying to say Justine.  And he might be.  But we don't actually know that, none of his speech is actually intelligible.   It's a reasonable assumption, but it's still just an assumption.  Mostly by Harry, but then by extension us the readers.   Also note, that he's never fully alone with Harry at a time he tries to speak, so he might not be able to convey what he wants without being observed, and so decides to just wait until he can.  (Not knowing that Harry is about to imprison him.)

Re: 1.  Last we knew with Butters, so most likely there.   Also, where's Bonnie?  We see him whisk Maggie to safety, but unless I missed it, I didn't see it mentioned that he got her out to Micheal's as well.

Title: Re: Some Thoughts **Spoilers for Peace Talks**
Post by: Yuillegan on July 15, 2020, 06:56:07 AM

No need to use the inset spoiler function really. You've already signalled spoilers in the topic heading in the spoiler sub-forum. But I get the attitude. I was doing it first, and the book is still fresh. But the rules of the forums are pretty clear and it's only necessary to use the insert-spoiler function in a topic that hasn't got spoilers made clear in the subject line.

Brak-
1. I wondered that as well. My only guess is that Butter's stashed him. Home with Andi and Marci.
2. Yeah, I totally get what you mean. Quite possibly Harry misinterpreted Thomas' intention when saying Justine. Maybe she fooled Harry and Thomas. Maybe Lara owns her. If Thomas was no longer vulnerable then so was she. Oooh. Would be a sucker punch if she was nemfected. Wonder how that works with the baby.
3.  Yes, there was some debate on this but it appears they were in fact kicked out. Although it's unclear if it's all of them...
4. To be honest, I doubt she ranked highly enough. And to some degree she would be an abomination to Ethniu. She hates humans after all. I suspect she would destroy Ivy 1 on 1. It isn't like Ivy or anyone else intervened.
5. Quite possibly it will. That's an interesting idea. Although the set-up is also for someone who isn't absolutely evil to get under his guard. Not only that, but Butters is going to have to learn other ways of fighting regular mortals.

temporus - Bonnea got away in Maggie's bag. Dresden told Maggie to pack her.

Title: Re: Some Thoughts **Spoilers for Peace Talks**
Post by: dresden11 on July 15, 2020, 02:56:04 PM

The conjureittis seemed... pointless.  Its just used for jokes.  And we already know wizards don't come into their powers until teenagers.  But they can also have this magical disease as children?  That doesn't even make sense.  Plus conjuring things seems really powerful, but it is a child's disease?  I hope there is some payoff for this because I just don't see it.  Bob appearing to explain this would have worked perfectly since Harry went to Butters' house where Bob stays.  Yet no Bob.  Easy fix.  But Butcher didn't want to explain it, so Bob doesn't appear.  Same with the Starborn thing.  It felt like Butcher was intentionally hiding it instead of characters' own choices. 

Title: Re: Some Thoughts **Spoilers for Peace Talks**
Post by: DarthSpot on July 15, 2020, 05:30:49 PM

Quote from: temporus on July 15, 2020, 06:45:49 AM

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Re: 2.  Everyone in the book keeps assuming that Thomas is trying to say Justine.  And he might be.  But we don't actually know that, none of his speech is actually intelligible.   It's a reasonable assumption, but it's still just an assumption.  Mostly by Harry, but then by extension us the readers.   Also note, that he's never fully alone with Harry at a time he tries to speak, so he might not be able to convey what he wants without being observed, and so decides to just wait until he can.  (Not knowing that Harry is about to imprison him.)

You give me an awesome idea.

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Maybe he tried to say "Justin". As in "Justin DuMorne"

Title: Re: Some Thoughts **Spoilers for Peace Talks**
Post by: Brak on July 15, 2020, 06:02:02 PM

Temporus- Thanks for confirming about Nick. it bothered me reading.

Yuillegan- Thanks for the info on spoilers.
1- I guess I expected that Marci would also know about Bob, but it could be that he's need to know.
2- I was wondering about Lara's true intentions, too. I kind of believe her and kind of don't. I thought it was possible that Justine was lying about the baby (if infected). If not, it will be interesting.
4- Ivy did take on the Denarians and was doing pretty well until Dresden came into the picture. I don't know. It just felt weird that she suddenly wasn't there. I don't know if she would intervene because she's supposed to be neutral but . . .
5- Yes, they did set that up, didn't they? I wonder what Butters will do.

Dresden11 - Yes, I wondered about that, too. It seemed like a disconnect, but maybe it's one of the ways to  figure out if a child will have abilities early on. Maybe not all kids get it. So many questions. As for the Starborn thing, I was surprised they even addressed it at all (finally). That part seemed kind of out of character to the rest of the book so I wondered if that was the part added to make a separate book. I still don't know why the outsiders attached when they did.

DarthSpot- Ooooh. That's also a very interesting idea. It would shake things up. The treachery aspect wouldn't be there (unless someone lied that he died), but maybe he's the connection between the Feds and Justine. I'll have to think on that one more.

Title: Re: Some Thoughts **Spoilers for Peace Talks**
Post by: Walter the skull on July 15, 2020, 06:40:38 PM

Nice to have you here Brak.

I wondered about Bob too. 

I think the important thing about conjuritis is that it's something magically gifted children get.  Harry lives with a child who might be magically gifted.   As we've all learned, Maggie can be an asymptomatic carrier. 

I had the same thought Darth Spot did.  I don't think its likely, but who knows. 

Title: Re: Some Thoughts **Spoilers for Peace Talks**
Post by: seniledutch on July 15, 2020, 10:32:01 PM

First time here and I am sure that this has been  fought up, but notice how a point was made to show laura getting burned by harry but when she is with Thomas, naked, no burns. My guess is Justine somehow betrayed Thomas to a point that he is no longer protected

Title: Re: Some Thoughts **Spoilers for Peace Talks**
Post by: Conspiracy Theorist on July 16, 2020, 12:28:31 AM

The stripping of the protection of True Love requires Justine or Thomas to be unfaithful, you presume Justine but Thomas is known to be unfaithful  with Evanna which would make a lot of sense.

Title: Re: Some Thoughts **Spoilers for Peace Talks**
Post by: Brak on July 16, 2020, 01:12:55 AM

Walter the Skull - Thanks  :) I like your idea about Maggie being an asymptomatic carrier. Maybe Dresden never had it before and she gave it to him. It's an interesting idea. I wonder if he would be happy she was a wizard. At least she could protect herself in the future.

Seniledutch - I noticed that, too. My thought at the time of reading was something along the lines of what Thomas tells Harry about Madeline and that her hunger is too close to the surface so she unconsciously feeds all the time. Lara did mention that the come hither thing is partly unconscious so maybe she was feeding unconsciously? Or she's into Dresden so she unconsciously tries to feed off him like Thomas does with Justine? That said, being so hungry, I'm surprised he didn't try to attack Harry like he tried to attack Molly in Turn Coat.

Title: Re: Some Thoughts **Spoilers for Peace Talks**
Post by: EBRIEN on July 16, 2020, 01:32:45 AM

Quote from: DarthSpot on July 15, 2020, 05:30:49 PM

You give me an awesome idea.

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Maybe he tried to say "Justin". As in "Justin DuMorne"

I was JUST thinking the same thing.

Title: Re: Some Thoughts **Spoilers for Peace Talks**
Post by: BrianC on July 16, 2020, 02:44:24 AM

Quote from: Conspiracy Theorist on July 16, 2020, 12:28:31 AM

The stripping of the protection of True Love requires Justine or Thomas to be unfaithful, you presume Justine but Thomas is known to be unfaithful  with Evanna which would make a lot of sense.

I cant remember what book it is, but essentially Thomas and Justine have an arrangement. So that he can be with her without burning himself, because her love for him and his for her, will trigger the burning. He sleeps around, with Justines aproval, and sometimes with Justine as a involved party. It was a conversation between Harry and Thomas.

Title: Re: Some Thoughts **Spoilers for Peace Talks**
Post by: Grifter on July 16, 2020, 02:51:35 AM

Quote from: BrianC on July 16, 2020, 02:44:24 AM

I cant remember what book it is, but essentially Thomas and Justine have an arrangement. So that he can be with her without burning himself, because her love for him and his for her, will trigger the burning. He sleeps around, with Justines aproval, and sometimes with Justine as a involved party. It was a conversation between Harry and Thomas.

It was shown to Harry by Uriel at the end of Ghost Story, where Thomas is starving himself so Justine brings a friend to play with them.  I don't know if there was ever a confirmation that the rinse and repeat method actually worked to restore the true love protection.

Title: Re: Some Thoughts **Spoilers for Peace Talks**
Post by: vultur on July 16, 2020, 04:19:43 PM

Quote from: seniledutch on July 15, 2020, 10:32:01 PM

My guess is Justine somehow betrayed Thomas to a point that he is no longer protected

The burning from a protected person* happens only when the Whampire tries to feed (though this can be 'subconscious', the "phage" trying to feed without the conscious intent of the "host".) Lara isn't going to try to feed on Thomas.

*Symbols of True Love are a different matter - presumably Lara wasn't trying to feed on a wedding ring...

Title: Re: Some Thoughts **Spoilers for Peace Talks**
Post by: Walter the skull on July 16, 2020, 05:21:33 PM

If you think about it, Lara was doing the opposite of feeding.  She was feeding Thomas her energy.  I don't think there would be any need for the wampires to have evolved a warning about that.

Title: Re: Some Thoughts **Spoilers for Peace Talks**
Post by: Mira on July 16, 2020, 07:29:58 PM

Quote from: Walter the skull on July 16, 2020, 05:21:33 PM

If you think about it, Lara was doing the opposite of feeding.  She was feeding Thomas her energy.  I don't think there would be any need for the wampires to have evolved a warning about that.

Yeah, she was giving, not taking.

Title: Re: Some Thoughts **Spoilers for Peace Talks**
Post by: Bad Alias on July 17, 2020, 03:32:33 AM

How would Thomas know that Justin was involved? That's my only reason the theory that Thomas was warning about DuMorne can't be correct. I also think it's more likely that Justine is betraying him and Lara, and Thomas was warning about that.

I'd really like it if Maggie had talent, and we got to see a short story or a couple of chapters in a book about her and Harry hanging out with River Shoulders one summer for training.

Title: Re: Some Thoughts **Spoilers for Peace Talks**
Post by: Grifter on July 17, 2020, 03:42:49 AM

Quote from: Bad Alias on July 17, 2020, 03:32:33 AM

How would Thomas know that Justin was involved? That's my only reason the theory that Thomas was warning about DuMorne can't be correct. I also think it's more likely that Justine is betraying him and Lara, and Thomas was warning about that.

I'd really like it if Maggie had talent, and we got to see a short story or a couple of chapters in a book about her and Harry hanging out with River Shoulders one summer for training.

I'm not saying it's likely, but here's the scenario.
1) Margaret and Justin were associates, and both attended a party at Raith's with Eb about a scheme they cooked up.
2) There's no reason to think Raith and Justin fell out after Margaret left. They might not have been friends, but Justin might have come around. And Thomas might have been old enough to know who he was.
3) Justin lived (the longest shot of all of these).
4) Justin showed up and enthralled Thomas to have him attack Etri, hoping he'd succeed and die in the process to cause chaos and division and screw with Harry.
5) Thomas recognized him but couldn't stop the enthrallment, but was free after the command was finished, and tried to warn Harry.

Title: Re: Some Thoughts **Spoilers for Peace Talks**
Post by: Bacail on July 17, 2020, 06:42:18 AM

Quote from: temporus on July 15, 2020, 06:45:49 AM

Also, where's Bonnie?  We see him whisk Maggie to safety, but unless I missed it, I didn't see it mentioned that he got her out to Micheal's as well.

In a bowling ball bag they took with them from the apartment to Michael's.  Was stated.

Title: Re: Some Thoughts **Spoilers for Peace Talks**
Post by: Bad Alias on July 17, 2020, 06:16:13 PM

Quote from: Grifter on July 17, 2020, 03:42:49 AM

I'm not saying it's likely, but here's the scenario.
1) Margaret and Justin were associates, and both attended a party at Raith's with Eb about a scheme they cooked up.
2) There's no reason to think Raith and Justin fell out after Margaret left. They might not have been friends, but Justin might have come around. And Thomas might have been old enough to know who he was.
3) Justin lived (the longest shot of all of these).
4) Justin showed up and enthralled Thomas to have him attack Etri, hoping he'd succeed and die in the process to cause chaos and division and screw with Harry.
5) Thomas recognized him but couldn't stop the enthrallment, but was free after the command was finished, and tried to warn Harry.

Yeah.