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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: morriswalters on August 25, 2018, 01:07:46 PM
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At 4 am these questions started running through my head. I hate me at times. But, why? While JB doesn't call it a castle in has all markers to make it sound like one. It isn't really fortress in a modern sense, since no wall will stop modern weapons. And I'm pretty sure that they would run afoul of zoning laws in a residential neighborhood. If it is simply Marcone thumbing his nose at Harry, or his memory, why not a McDonald's?
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I think it's a two-part decision.
The rise of the Fomor together with the fall (later rescinded) of Harry Dresden means Marcone needs a more sturdy headquarters to be able to respond rapidly to supernatural incursions (and to impress the Raiths). Hence, he wants a more fortified base to stuff his Einherjars.
And second, by putting it on Harry's spot, he implicitly calls on Harry's erstwhile allies, who Marcone needs to really run the supernatural side of Chicago against Lara Raith.
I think thumbing Harry in the eye if he should have survived despite all indications is just a minor bonus.
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While it won't stop modern weapons, it does provide some protection against certain magical ones.
Related to Harry's allies, it's a place that they all know and can readily find. Plus, it's a now empty spot of land in Chicago that's ripe for building on.
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At 4 am these questions started running through my head. I hate me at times. But, why? While JB doesn't call it a castle in has all markers to make it sound like one. It isn't really fortress in a modern sense, since no wall will stop modern weapons. And I'm pretty sure that they would run afoul of zoning laws in a residential neighborhood. If it is simply Marcone thumbing his nose at Harry, or his memory, why not a McDonald's?
I doubt it's a full blown castle, but if it was it would seriously impede modern weapons. There where a number of fortified monasteries and old castles that gave the allies all hell when advancing through italy because you needed serious heavy artillery to even scratch them, and even then it wasn't remotely quick or easy.
That said i think others hit the nail on the head. It's as much a political statement to anyone watching about Marcone's stance on the Formor as it is a practical place.
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Gard may have examined the location and found that it had magical protections on the NeverNever side (That leah had placed), and told Marcone that it was a secured area worth having.
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You realize it almost directly matches up symbolically to Mab's fortress in CD's then? It's Harry's apartment AND a giant fortress at the same time...
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Gard may have examined the location and found that it had magical protections on the NeverNever side (That leah had placed), and told Marcone that it was a secured area worth having.
The mapping between physical address on earth and location in the NN is based on what kind of place it is, though, not just a 1:1 mapping. Burning it down and rebuilding a castle over Harry's old place couldn't help but chance what kind of place it is. Leah's garden wouldn't protect Marcone's building.
Also based on SG, the mapping between realms is even somewhat fluid based on who's creating the opening, and even down to their state of mind when they cross over. The commonly used Ways seem to be points where the NN is particularly close and gates connect the same locations with a high level of reliability, but in the case of the vault heist, it was functionally important for making the connection that Harry believe it was a sincere robbery rather than a setup with the connivance of both Marcone and Hades to hurt Nic.
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no, it was necessary the vault in question actually BE a secured one and not blown wide open lest it change the integrity of the way... had nothing to do with harry believing it was a heigst or not.
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Just as the intellectus of Demonreach creates a field to make people want to avoid it, perhaps that location has something similar that draws people of a defender's type. Maybe because of what Harry was doing there or perhaps Harry was drawn there himself, but there is something about that spot that people subconsciously want to defend.
Perhaps it is a thin spot between this reality and another. It drew Lea to plant her garden there in the NN. Odin, when Harry was gone, may have given a 'suggestion' to Marcone to build a fortress there and Odin manned it with Einherjar.
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no, it was necessary the vault in question actually BE a secured one and not blown wide open lest it change the integrity of the way... had nothing to do with harry believing it was a heigst or not.
Even if you read it that way - and I'm not convinced one should, given Harry's narration that two practitioners might hit different parts of the NN opening a gate from the same earth location - it still means the site isn't going to connect to Lea's garden any more after burning down and then having a castle built over it by new ownership. The connection only existed in the first part thanks to fairly significant work on Lea's part. Once she was no longer required to put in the work to keep up with changes by her bargain to protect Harry, the connection would be lost.
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Even if you read it that way - and I'm not convinced one should
You can simply go back and read word for word the interaction in SG. It's simply what was said. Quite directly.
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Hmm. In Cold Days, Harry goes off on a tangent about how bad guys tend to keep using the same locations, like the Full Moon Garage in Fool Moon and Proven Guilty. He's specifically talking about the warehouse Mac and Pals are held hostage by the Redcap, but it makes me think that the reverse might be true; the Good Guys might want to use the same locations as well. It could very well be a product of magic in some regard, though I think Marcone was primarily motivated by self-interest. They needed a symbol of unity and resistance to the Fomor/Other Bad Things incursions, and setting up shop on Harry's old plot makes sense.
It's also a residential area, which is a mild deterrent. Plus it's right by Mac's, so there's already a hub of magical community activity near at hand.
All that aside, I imagine that Marcone felt particularly smug about handing Mrs. Spunklekrief a check for several times the value of the land (unconfirmed, I just have a feeling that he did something like that).
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The mapping between physical address on earth and location in the NN is based on what kind of place it is, though, not just a 1:1 mapping. Burning it down and rebuilding a castle over Harry's old place couldn't help but chance what kind of place it is. Leah's garden wouldn't protect Marcone's building.
Also based on SG, the mapping between realms is even somewhat fluid based on who's creating the opening, and even down to their state of mind when they cross over. The commonly used Ways seem to be points where the NN is particularly close and gates connect the same locations with a high level of reliability, but in the case of the vault heist, it was functionally important for making the connection that Harry believe it was a sincere robbery rather than a setup with the connivance of both Marcone and Hades to hurt Nic.
Maybe, maybe not. If this were the case entirely then Leah would have to make big changes every time the home underwent any kind of renovation, or even the mindset of the different tenants.
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Well, we don't know that she didn't.
Also, we don't know how much granularity there is. Going into the NN from the upstairs may be different from going into the NN from Harry's apartment.
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Well, we don't know that she didn't.
Also, we don't know how much granularity there is. Going into the NN from the upstairs may be different from going into the NN from Harry's apartment.
We know one thing. Marcone chose to build his fortress on Dresden's former residence. The question is why? I doubt he did it for petty reasons. He did it for a significant reason or Jim wouldn't have bothered writing it in the story.
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Jim could have written it to show how much Harry has lost and things have changed since he was gone. Marcone's reasons need not be elaborated because it's not really up to him, it's up to Jim.
Plus, again, suddenly available land relatively central in Chicago that most people in the know can find.
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Jim could have written it to show how much Harry has lost and things have changed since he was gone. Marcone's reasons need not be elaborated because it's not really up to him, it's up to Jim.
Plus, again, suddenly available land relatively central in Chicago that most people in the know can find.
The location could have just as easily become a parking lot to show the change. Marcone is filthy rich, he could have built anywhere. The location itself had meaning. Jim said he's a lazy writer and anything he puts in the books are there for a reason. Marcone building there isn't a little thing, it's meaningful.
Heck it could be something as simple as there was something left behind that Harry will want, or need. Marcone having put down there will require a favor if Harry wants it back. Harry will know to go to Marcone because he built there, and Marcone won't have to tip his hand until Harry needs whatever it is.
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You think that a parking lot being developed is going to have the same emotional impact as the place Harry used to live being suddenly replaced, and owned by the mortal he is about most antagonistic with?
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The location could have just as easily become a parking lot to show the change. Marcone is filthy rich, he could have built anywhere. The location itself had meaning. Jim said he's a lazy writer and anything he puts in the books are there for a reason. Marcone building there isn't a little thing, it's meaningful.
Heck it could be something as simple as there was something left behind that Harry will want, or need. Marcone having put down there will require a favor if Harry wants it back. Harry will know to go to Marcone because he built there, and Marcone won't have to tip his hand until Harry needs whatever it is.
Little Chicago anyone lol? Though I do think the earlier connections around Harry's apartment being a brighter Chicago and the 'vibe' of good guy haunts is the more direct reasoning overall.
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Chicago is Marcone's territory and with Harry gone, Marcone needs something to fill the void and defend his territory from supernatural threats. Also, Marcone might not like Harry, but he respected Harry. Building the fortress on Harry's old home was a sign of respect (plus, he wanted to see if he could learn any of Harry's secrets).
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Chances are that Little Chicago melted in the fire, pewter has a low melt point, and Marcone wouldn’t be able to glean much from it I agree, though, that Marcone likely built on the spot to show that Chicago is still Protected. That goes hand in hand with his claim of Chicago as it’s Baron.
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actually now, I looked at LC through the sieve of generational cycles and repeating events and realized the one thing shown that matches what LC seemed to do, is the stone table actually. It contains the meta connection to our planet's seasonal powers and overlays Chicago perfectly.. I doubt Chekov's gun just disappeared never to be seen again... Hell considering it's use as a time travel device I simply disbelieve the thing is actually any more gone than Justin is Ded.
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LC appears to have been a literary blind alley. I think JB considered it deadwood, like Harry's apt. The fire had been telegraphed earlier as a major risk. LC itself was set up as time consuming to maintain. The apt. had to go.
Harry no longer has a home. JB has created a dilemma. Harry wants to raise Maggie, but what father in his right mind would do so on the island. Maybe Harry will deal for the castle. As described it would make a great Wizards lair. Maybe a condo on the 4th floor. Marcone won't hurt kids and he might be open to the idea given sufficient incentives. JB pointed out through Butters that there is a daycare on the premises. With Harry there, Maggie is safe from attack through the NN. The warriors in the basement provide muscle against more straightforward attacks.
I don't believe it, but it makes a certain sense. And who built it? Maybe the Svartalves? Which would explain the speed at which it was built. If so then the castle could be shielded against magic. Which would mean Maggie doesn't have to live in a cold water flat. And Harry could have a hot shower. ;)
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And Harry could have a hot shower. ;)
That should exclude the possibility all by itself ;)
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I actually think it may have something to do with Mrs. Spunklecrief and who she is. I like to think she has Fae roots herself. In fact, I have some weird theory that she might be the abdicated Mother Summer or something like that. If true, then it wouldn't just be Harry's presence within the apartment that made that location important, or Lea's protective precautions for it within the NN due to her obligations to Harry via deal made with his mother, it could possibly be some sort of power remnant from Mrs. Spunklecrief having resided there.
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realistically, the fire would have collapsed the basement but the subbasement was another good ten feet of concrete deeper. No reasoning for a fire to burn that far down really, it wouldn't have the air to breath down there either. The idea we're supposed to accept it's loss is ludicrous when you consider the bomb shelter that is Harry's laboratory. Then marcone moves in upstairs and adds layers upon layers of stone to it? You know why stone is a thing right, for castles? It doesn't burn lol!
Nobody looks doyalist anymore or what lol?
Also he had an actual hatch to his basement, not just a cover for it, it's not like the undertown mysteriously stopped being a thing after that the Chicago fire lol, It became the thing!
Bomb shelters tend to not overheat and break... no real wreckage down below.
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Water flows downhill and the basement would have been a lake, and concrete gets weak if it gets hot enough. The house would have collapsed into the basement. All in all, in the real world it would be gone. Of course this isn't the real world. But the table and the model would have been destroyed when the wreckers took out the debris. The pieces would have ended up in a landfill. LC is gone unless it was rescued by a time traveler when the house got lit off, or someone crossed over from faerie.
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Come to think of it, wouldn't burning Little Chicago have released all the stored up energy inside? Wouldn't that be equivalent to detonating several kilotons of TNT? I mean, Vittorio's little gauntlet was set on fire, and that exploded violently. The description of Little Chicago's energy reservoir leads me to believe it's exponentially larger and more potent. Hm.
Mostly, I think LC had to go for plot reasons; it was simultaneously important for Harry to do a few things, but arguably too powerful to keep around. With enough practice, Harry wouldn't need to go running around every chapter to hunt down clues. It's similar to why he can't use computers or cell phones (plot-wise, not in-universe).
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Come to think of it, wouldn't burning Little Chicago have released all the stored up energy inside? Wouldn't that be equivalent to detonating several kilotons of TNT? I mean, Vittorio's little gauntlet was set on fire, and that exploded violently. The description of Little Chicago's energy reservoir leads me to believe it's exponentially larger and more potent. Hm.
Water (from fire sprinklers or hydrant) would have grounded out any stored energy.
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Water (from fire sprinklers or hydrant) would have grounded out any stored energy.
It's an underground lab, it might turn into a lake, but it would never be running water over Lab, part of the beauty of a trap door and narrow entry way. it funnels, and LC wasn't directly underneath it.