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Messages - magnuskn

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61
DF Spoilers / Re: Murphy (BG spoilers) (also some thoughts on the book overall)
« on: October 19, 2020, 05:16:46 AM »
Quote from: bigdangmoose on October 18, 2020, 09:20:59 PM
Only problem is that Jim said no power ups for Murphy. Valkyrie would be a powerup. So no Valkyrie powers for Murphy. And keep her out of the books for now. Harry needs to learn to think and work without her. He's almost always had her as an adviser.

She's an Einherjar right now already, so that "rule" of "no power ups" is, obviously, kaputt. As for the latter, I disagree. Having support by this friends is what makes Harry strong, especially if they are well capable of calling him out on his tendency to beat himself up emotionally and for his occasional arrogance.

62
DF Spoilers / Re: Murphy (BG spoilers) (also some thoughts on the book overall)
« on: October 18, 2020, 03:02:24 PM »
Quote from: Arjan on October 18, 2020, 01:57:09 PM
I believe Jim described Valkyries as mortals with benefits so I think you have to start as a mortal.

Another indication about the nature of Gard’s job offer.

Again, fictional rules are made to be broken. All I'm saying is that it is completely possible for Jim to write a believable way to bring her back and as a Valkyrie (or just the former as an Einherjar), even in the next book if he chooses so. More likely in the wrestling book, though, so that he can deal with the whole Lara thing in Mirror Mirror.

63
DF Spoilers / Re: Murphy (BG spoilers) (also some thoughts on the book overall)
« on: October 18, 2020, 01:35:03 PM »
Quote from: Mr. Death on October 17, 2020, 12:41:19 PM
That she is an Einherjar now does not in any way, shape, or form mean she couldn't have become a Valkyrie before.

Or, y'know, after.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Murphy (BG spoilers) (also some thoughts on the book overall)
« on: October 16, 2020, 06:39:59 PM »
Quote from: Mira on October 15, 2020, 10:41:47 PM
She also calls Odin "Allfather"  So he is, that might be why she jokingly said he likes them to call him "daddy" sometime.  A lot less formal, I agree she isn't a virgin, but I think it could go either way as to whether or not Odin is her father.

"Allfather" is basically his job title, it's widely used in the Marvel Comics version of him as well and I can tell you that the Valkyries are not his daughters over there.

As far as the discussion above, she was picked up as an Einherjar, there is nothing which says she can't "upgrade", if offered.

65
DF Spoilers / Re: Murphy (BG spoilers) (also some thoughts on the book overall)
« on: October 15, 2020, 09:12:21 PM »
Quote from: Mira on October 15, 2020, 07:51:42 PM
I think if she were a Valkyrie in training, Gard would have said it..

Or maybe Gard has some orders from higher up to be circumspect about it.

66
DF Spoilers / Re: Murphy (BG spoilers) (also some thoughts on the book overall)
« on: October 15, 2020, 07:47:24 PM »
Yeah, I think the "Odin's daughters" is more brought up because some people want to rule out as many possibilities for a return for Murphy as possible. It's pretty clearly a misinformation Harry was operating under.

Also, who says she can't "upgrade" from Einherjar to Valkyrie?

67
DF Spoilers / Re: Murphy (BG spoilers) (also some thoughts on the book overall)
« on: October 15, 2020, 03:14:45 PM »
Quote from: Mira on October 15, 2020, 02:51:43 AM
Yes, and bringing her back somehow cheapens the character.  Tis a pet peeve of mine in books, movies, and television shows, the writers do a really outstanding job making an end for the character.  Not always death either, just a good end.. But some idiot decides that was such a poetic end, that we need to make a sequel, bring him or her back to somehow enhance the other characters.. It usually doesn't  work, I'm thinking of a character they brought back from the dead, Tasha Yar, then killed her off again poetically in an alternate universe "Yesterday's Enterprise."  Then decided that because that was such a success, lets bring her back as her half Romunlan daughter because Tasha Yar really did survive the battle that no one in the current timeline even knows happened, and the Tasha Yar of the current timeline died a needless death years before in a run in with an oily alien...

Quite the contrary with me. I think killing off a character robs him of all future potential. The better solution is to not kill them off in the first place, but I'd rather have them back then be gone forever. It doesn't always work out in the end, true, but often it does. I'm a comics guy, so I am pretty inured to the argument that "dead means dead", anyway.

Also, I personally still think Jim is not the guy to kill off main characters in the way Murphy did go. There is too much foreshadowing with her training with the Einherjar and the way she interacted with Freydis and just the fact that she got taken away to Valhalla to let her just go. If she was meant to be out of the series, her going to the Catholic afterlife would have been the thing to do.

68
DF Spoilers / Re: Anyone Else Surprised or Disappointed That Harry
« on: October 14, 2020, 09:58:50 AM »
Quote from: Mira on October 06, 2020, 01:34:39 PM

   Didn't talk to Ivy?  Yes, I understand she is totally into her Archive role now, but she is still Ivy.  I
believe that Ivy still sees Harry as a friend.  What I thought was weird, he didn't even give her
a head nod in acknowledgement or vice versa..

Yeah, absolutely. It's basically my biggest disappointment of the two-parter, aside from the Merlin not having a talk with Harry (which is a minor point compared to him not talking with Ivy).

69
DF Spoilers / Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« on: October 14, 2020, 07:51:43 AM »
Eh, I don't think Marcone will actually turn into a bad-bad guy, but rather stay a good-bad guy, as he has for the entire series. Yep, he has a Denarian coin now, but somehow, just by Thorned Namshiel calling Ethniu "Darling", I got the impression that either Marcone got the better of the Denarian somehow or that Thorned Namshiel is one of the more reasonable ones and that they both got an equitable deal. Just my instinctive impression, I could well be totally wrong here.

70
DF Spoilers / Re: Elaine: Spoilerific Fun
« on: October 13, 2020, 06:38:42 AM »
Quote from: Basil on October 10, 2020, 01:00:45 AM
I'm afraid that Grey is possibly among the Nemfected now.  I wouldn't trust anyone who has been alone with Justine -- Thomas included -- for any length of time.

Unlikely, Jim has stated multiple times that he'd like to do a new series with Goodman Grey after he finishes the Dresden Files.

71
DF Spoilers / Re: Murphy (BG spoilers) (also some thoughts on the book overall)
« on: October 12, 2020, 07:29:01 AM »
Quote from: Arjan on October 06, 2020, 02:00:14 PM
You need a really apocalyptic situation for that  ;D

Do we? I mean, again, fiction. We are putting a lot of weight on a short paragraph of words said by Sigrun Gard, without any real contextual explanations, who is an employee of one Mr. Kringle. She's a pretty straight person, but I'm pretty sure that if she had gotten instructions by her boss, she might have not been 100% truthful.

Not even to mention that there are a ton of work-arounds which could be done. Oh, she comes back as a Valkyrie, which is different from being an Einherjar, golly gee wiz. Oh, her being so catholic and being a former Knight of the Cross makes her a special case. It's easy, it just depends if Jim wants her back or not.

72
DF Spoilers / Re: Murphy (BG spoilers) (also some thoughts on the book overall)
« on: October 06, 2020, 06:33:28 AM »
Quote from: Mr. Death on October 03, 2020, 02:58:09 PM
She's dead. Harry can attest, the soul was gone. And -- to anyone's knowledge -- she isn't coming back. Gard ought to be an authority on that subject. Nobody who knew and loved her in life is ever going to see her again. Heck, you could interpret Gard's comments (specifically, that Murphy has "earned her rest") to mean she's not even going to be active and conscious for a while, either.

Again, fictional rules are there to be broken when it's convenient for the story overall. I don't see Jim discarding Murphy that easily.

73
DF Spoilers / Re: Mab is grooming Harry to be a new Merlin that restarts the white council.
« on: October 01, 2020, 05:08:47 PM »
IMO, it was pretty blatantly told us to our faces in this book that Mab was basically a good person who gradually had to rationalize most of her altruism away. Although not all... BG was really a good indicator that she has hidden her good side deep down and sometimes lets it out, in the guise of doing something which benefits her.

74
DF Spoilers / Re: Murphy (BG spoilers) (also some thoughts on the book overall)
« on: October 01, 2020, 04:53:14 PM »
Quote from: huangjimmy108 on October 01, 2020, 12:41:33 PM
I doubt Murphy would come back anytime soon. Fictional rules indeed are made to be broken and JB is not known to just scrap a Character like Murphy so easily, but I doubt JB would break a new establish fictional rule so quickly either. So I suspect if Murphy is goint to come back, it requires some time, which is why I mentioned before that if the DF series is long enough or if there is a spin off which take place in future timeline or if there is a time skip in the series, Murphy could come back again.

Another possibility, Harry could meet Murphy in the NN. Murphy can't come back to the mortal world, but there is so many place out there in the NN and there is also other universes. Murphy can't come back here, but she could go somewhere else and Harry could go to that place as well.

Yeah, Harry going to Valhalla to meet Murphy would seem to be a thing he'd do. I think it depends if Jim wants to continue to Murphy / Harry relationship. Methinks he probably wants to maximise Harry's suffering for entertainment purposes, so if there is a continuance by Harry and Murphy being able to meet somehow, it will be a very inconvenient way for them both.

But I think it is pretty clear that if he had wanted her gone, she would have gone to the catholic afterlife, not Odin's realm.

Quote from: Mira on October 01, 2020, 01:35:04 PM
Actually I am a bit sorry she was taken to Valhalla, not that she doesn't deserve to go there, but I'd rather she went to work with her father and Uriel.  She had issues with her father, which she laments in Peace Talks and never got to resolve because he took his own life before they were able to.  Then perhaps Harry could get word via Uriel, as much as he will say anyway, that she is happy doing what she is doing, giving Harry some peace.

Murphy's dad was in the "in-between" because he couldn't move on. I would think Murphy's first mission there would be to make her dad go on into the true afterlife, afterwards she'd be gone as well.

Quote from: Mira on October 01, 2020, 01:35:04 PM
No, I don't think Murphy is coming back.  Gard was very clear on that, as in "even the Allfather" cannot over rule that.

Meh. I think that was specifically mentioned to be a rule that will be broken.

Quote from: Griffyn612 on October 01, 2020, 02:42:50 PM
Or the rules change for the Apocalypse, and all cards are on the table, including quarantined einherjarn.  Then she's back for the BAT, riding in top save the day on a winged motorcycle or something.

I think I'd prefer a winged horse in classical fashion, but otherwise this sounds pretty plausible, too.

75
DF Spoilers / Murphy (BG spoilers) (also some thoughts on the book overall)
« on: October 01, 2020, 12:22:48 PM »
So, yeah. Down goes Murphy. I am less than happy, although it was predicted, even by myself. At least she brought down a giant before having to go. I would have liked her to stay at least another book, to give Harry at least a full year of a blissful relationship.

She has not come back as a Valkyrie (yet...), but she was taken to Valhalla to be an Einherjarn (despite being catholic and noticeably so in this book). So, that point of objection to her not coming back as a supernatural being is pretty much kaputt.

I personally don't believe that she is really out of the series yet, since Jim doesn't like to discard characters that easily. IMHO, she'll be back, maybe next book, maybe in a few, as an "exception to the rule" (because fictional rules are made to be broken) and either as a straight Valkyrie or as an Einherjarn.

Otherwise than Murphy dying, the book was overall really good and enjoyable and felt much more as a "full book" than Peace Talks did. I think the only real points of objection I have are that Harry didn't have a private talk with Ivy (he can be forgiven, due to having his hands full with a demi-god, but still, man... you haven't really talked to her for years. At least introduce her to Maggy) and that we didn't get a scene of Langtry talking with Harry and having to deal with Harry being the Winter Knight, the Warden of Demonreach, etc.. The White Council is a bunch of dumbasses and Harry really probably is better off without them. I'm very much looking forward to what comes next.

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