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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: groinkick on March 02, 2021, 06:41:35 PM
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I know that it's been theorized by some (not sure about WoJ) that the binding Maggie put on Raith is now anchored to Maggie Jr as well because of the nature of the spell. I suspect the spell doesn't work like that. It's anchored to Harry, and Thomas, no one else.
So here is where I think Mirror Mirror causes the issues. I believe with Thomas locked on DR he is no longer feeding the spell. Harry placed him there to protect him from magical attack, and it would make sense that he'd no longer be fueling the spell. If he were, then powerful beings on DR could reach out from there, and I don't believe they can. Then in Mirror Mirror Harry will be pulled into another reality. I think this will be enough to severe his connection to the binding. With Harry, and Thomas no longer fueling the binding, it will lose power very quickly, and Lord Raith will be able to feed again.
I believe that when Harry makes his return from the alternate reality he will find that Lord Raith killed probably at least a couple of dozen of women. Feeding heavily, and refilling his gas tank. Lara will once again be submissive to him, and he will have taken control of the White Court.
This will create a major problem for Dresden. His marriage into the White Court will mean he must respect certain laws, and in some ways be obliged to do what he's told by the leader of the Court, Lord Raith. Harry will once again be in a really horrible position, just where Jim wants him.
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If he lives that long anyway, Lara might just decide that she can step out of the shadows once the marriage is done. Depends on if Jim wants to bring him back and off Lara (no way she'd survive a successful comeback after a decade of tormenting him) for the sake of including another villain in an already crowded couple of novels.
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I don't buy that... mortal magic isn't cut off. That's why Mortals are not meant to go into team in demonreach. And that's why Elaine's magic worked when they left Harry in the sinkhole. And Lara's father is just an afterthought. I believe they killed off Murphy and put Thomas in demon reach to get them out of the picture so other characters could get more story time and he didn't want to kill off Thomas right away.
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If he lives that long anyway, Lara might just decide that she can step out of the shadows once the marriage is done. Depends on if Jim wants to bring him back and off Lara (no way she'd survive a successful comeback after a decade of tormenting him) for the sake of including another villain in an already crowded couple of novels.
Good points. I guess it comes down to is Lord Raith an enemy for Harry to face, or was he Maggie's to destroy, and we are simply seeing her handy work doing it's thing?
I can see both. I'd like to see him full strength because I feel I only got to see a glimpse of him, and am curious about the character. On the other hand I could see this as Maggie's vengeance being fulfilled, and it was her enemy to defeat.
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Mirror Harry lives so the curse of Mirror Margaret is still active. The split is at grave peril so we do not know for sure whether Lara defeated her father in the mirror verse.
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Mirror Harry lives so the curse of Mirror Margaret is still active. The split is at grave peril so we do not know for sure whether Lara defeated her father in the mirror verse.
I'm pretty sure that he means that Harry being in another universe and Thomas being in Demonreach will free our Lord Raith, which, god I hope not, he was such a boring-ass villain.
Like, half of his Dialogue comes across like he was reading it from a list of generic supervillain phrase book.
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I'm pretty sure that he means that Harry being in another universe and Thomas being in Demonreach will free our Lord Raith, which, god I hope not, he was such a boring-ass villain.
Like, half of his Dialogue comes across like he was reading it from a list of generic supervillain phrase book.
Even if that were true I think that by now Lara by now has her claws dug so deep into her father that it hardly matters.
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I'm pretty sure that he means that Harry being in another universe and Thomas being in Demonreach will free our Lord Raith, which, god I hope not, he was such a boring-ass villain.
Like, half of his Dialogue comes across like he was reading it from a list of generic supervillain phrase book.
If he does get his mojo back hopefully it's only an offscreen joke before he wipes himself out on the claymores trying to storm into Lara's office.
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I've always thought that he was too relevant to Harry's story to fade like he did.
If he lives that long anyway, Lara might just decide that she can step out of the shadows once the marriage is done.
But if others' speculation is accurate, and Harry gets pulled into another reality right before the I Do's, then Lara might be left jilted at the alter. And Raith, free from the curse, could go mad and start killing people with a touch. And everyone is left to assume that he was so offended that he declared war on Winter.
Sounds like great chaos for Harry to return home to.
But I have to think that Harry would have Thomas recovered by then, because both he and Lara would want him at the wedding.
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But I have to think that Harry would have Thomas recovered by then, because both he and Lara would want him at the wedding.
Just imagine Thomas, mingling at the reception, when a stranger walks up to him:
"So, you here with the Bride or Groom?"
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I've always thought that he was too relevant to Harry's story to fade like he did.
But if others' speculation is accurate, and Harry gets pulled into another reality right before the I Do's, then Lara might be left jilted at the alter. And Raith, free from the curse, could go mad and start killing people with a touch. And everyone is left to assume that he was so offended that he declared war on Winter.
Sounds like great chaos for Harry to return home to.
But I have to think that Harry would have Thomas recovered by then, because both he and Lara would want him at the wedding.
By now Lara is always fully fed and her father lacks the energy for a decent fight and is enslaved by his daughter. She watches him carefully because other vampires can try to use him as a pawn. She will kill him easily.
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But I have to think that Harry would have Thomas recovered by then, because both he and Lara would want him at the wedding.
I'm actually wondering if releasing a prisoner is as simple as giving the order, or if there is more to it. A built in safety to prevent any potential warden from just releasing everything and destroying the world.
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By now Lara is always fully fed and her father lacks the energy for a decent fight and is enslaved by his daughter. She watches him carefully because other vampires can try to use him as a pawn. She will kill him easily.
I have to disagree here. He had Lara under his thumb for like a century. She overcame him once he was weakened. If he's able to feed it's not like she's got a spell over him. He is way way more powerful than she is, he just is all out of gas. Fill up his tank, and he's back in charge. She also wouldn't see it coming. She thinks he's neutered. If he's able to feed again, he could give his famous kiss of death to a single woman and be ready to fight. I suspect the Valkyrie who's working with Lara could make a snack that could get him right back on his feet.
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I have to disagree here. He had Lara under his thumb for like a century. She overcame him once he was weakened. If he's able to feed it's not like she's got a spell over him. He is way way more powerful than she is, he just is all out of gas. Fill up his tank, and he's back in charge. She also wouldn't see it coming. She thinks he's neutered. If he's able to feed again, he could give his famous kiss of death to a single woman and be ready to fight. I suspect the Valkyrie who's working with Lara could make a snack that could get him right back on his feet.
By now she might even have emergency measures in place to kill him immediately if necessary. I would have and I am not as paranoid as a white court vampire. Her father is still dangerous as a puppet for someone else.
And I am not sure he can even do that kiss in his weakened state now. Even if he discovered that he can feed again, which is not that obvious because he is probably locked up with no food around, storming in to confront his daughter would not end well for him. She is not only well fed she is also smarter and well protected by all sort of means including things her father would not expect.
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By now she might even have emergency measures in place to kill him immediately if necessary. I would have and I am not as paranoid as a white court vampire. Her father is still dangerous as a puppet for someone else.
And I am not sure he can even do that kiss in his weakened state now. Even if he discovered that he can feed again, which is not that obvious because he is probably locked up with no food around, storming in to confront his daughter would not end well for him. She is not only well fed she is also smarter and well protected by all sort of means including things her father would not expect.
I don't believe the kiss was a measure of skill, but an example of how strong his demon had become. Vamps gain power over time by feeding. He's been around for possibly thousands of years.
I'm sure Lara does have plans but the White Court is based on intelligence, and guile. Lord Raith didn't get the top spot by being stupid. He has to be absolutely cunning to have gotten to wear he is. I bet he has all kinds of plans of what he'd do if he could just feed.
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He's so cunning that he couldn't lift that curse for 30 years and after his daughter found out about it, he was cunning enough to be overthrown by her and live for years as her pawn.
Lara is straight up smarter than her father, she's not quite as ruthless. But since she's been in charge, Casa Raith has been upgraded with military weapons, competent guards and magical defenses. She's also expanded the WC's power into mortal politics. She's done all this while also keeping her father under her thumb.
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He's so cunning that he couldn't lift that curse for 30
You're making the assumption that Lara could have, and I don't agree.
after his daughter found out about it, he was cunning enough to be overthrown by her and live for years as her pawn.
Nonsense. Lara didn't overthrow anyone. Harry exposed him as not being able to feed. Harry caused him to use up all his reserves to heal himself, leaving him helpless. Lara walked in and finished him off. Dresden did the work, not Lara
Lara is straight up smarter than her father, she's not quite as ruthless. But since she's been in charge, Casa Raith has been upgraded with military weapons, competent guards and magical defenses. She's also expanded the WC's power into mortal politics. She's done all this while also keeping her father under her thumb.
The White Court was a major power that was expanding under Lord Raith. It was only after he could no longer feed that he started going crazy, and caused the White Court to stagnate. Lara is only taking over where her father left off.
WoJ:
"How old is Lord Raith?
He’s a couple thousand years old. He’s got 2 thousand years of paranoia kinda built up. Plus he’s been absolutely bonkers the past 30 years or so.
There’s kind of a long game going on in the Dresden Files, and Lord Raith has been involved in it in the last couple of cycle’s it’s gone on. He’s been trying to educate himself about it, and he meant to be a player in it this time it came around, but getting involved with Margret kind of screwed him over."
Lord Raith ruled, and everyone feared him, and didn't dare challenge him. Lara has only been in charge for a few years and the powers are already planning on overthrowing her. If she had the brains, or power, none would challenge her. That is about to change.
WoJ:
"everyone has to pretend that Lord Raith is the one in charge even though they know better. Until it comes time to unseat Lara, and they’ll have to take Raith out of his position in order to get Lara out of hers. "
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Yes, Harry exposed him and made it easier for Lara to take over, but he's the one who involved Lara in his plan which is how she got her insight. What did he expect, loyal support for a weakened leader from a subordinated he's used ruthlessly?
The WC was a major power but Lara is growing it much faster than Lord Raith could. Her embrace of technology, willingness to hire professional soldiers rather than using enthralled muscle and skill at forming alliances are things her father would barely consider.
And the WC is always trying to unseat its rulers. They're so used to thinking in terms of ruthless advantage that they have difficultly understanding people not motivated that way.
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And Harry has a daughter now.
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The WC was a major power but Lara is growing it much faster than Lord Raith could. Her embrace of technology, willingness to hire professional soldiers rather than using enthralled muscle and skill at forming alliances are things her father would barely consider.
What are you basing this on? Jim flat out said that it was because Lord Raith couldn't feed that it stopped the White Court from growing in power. That Maggie's curse "sandbagged" them for 30 years. Lord Raith went from aggression, to defensive.
Lara isn't smarter than him, he's been going insane for 30+ years. Before the curse he was a serious player. Take a good look at what happened to Thomas when he was beaten, and needed to feed. He turned into an animal. He almost killed Molly because of his hunger. Lord Raith without feeding for decades could still pretend to be in charge. He was the smartest and most powerful before being cursed.
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And Harry has a daughter now.
I don't know if the curse would bind itself to her or not. Based on what I've been reading from Jim though I am doubting Lord Raith is going to make a return.
It's going to be about Lara working with Harry to keep the family in line.
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I don't know if the curse would bind itself to her or not. Based on what I've been reading from Jim though I am doubting Lord Raith is going to make a return.
It's going to be about Lara working with Harry to keep the family in line.
Thomas was not there so Margaret most likely bound the curse to her own bloodline. That would strongly suggest that Maggie supports it too.
Not absolutely certain of course but I think it is more than likely.
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Thomas was not there so Margaret most likely bound the curse to her own bloodline. That would strongly suggest that Maggie supports it too.
Not absolutely certain of course but I think it is more than likely.
The only reason I didn't think it would go to Maggie is because Bloodline curses seem to require a ton of power. Maybe she had enough, but when the Reds wanted to wipe out Harry's bloodline they did a ton of human sacrifices.
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The only reason I didn't think it would go to Maggie is because Bloodline curses seem to require a ton of power. Maybe she had enough, but when the Reds wanted to wipe out Harry's bloodline they did a ton of human sacrifices.
Difficult to say. The red court curse was overkill because they wanted to make a statement and they had to go through all the defenses of Edinburgh. Also they wanted to make a big party out of it. Also they wanted spectacular deaths. Even taken that into account I do think it was totally overkill for what they wanted to do. Though Murphy said that with supernaturals there is no such thing as overkill.
But it did get the whole red court. I think overkill.
Margaret spent the life force of a strong wizard in that curse and her objective was far more subtle and precise. Far less powerful than the loud garou curse. I think it is entirely possible that Maggie supports the curse too.
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I've always thought that he was too relevant to Harry's story to fade like he did.
But if others' speculation is accurate, and Harry gets pulled into another reality right before the I Do's, then Lara might be left jilted at the alter. And Raith, free from the curse, could go mad and start killing people with a touch. And everyone is left to assume that he was so offended that he declared war on Winter.
Sounds like great chaos for Harry to return home to.
But I have to think that Harry would have Thomas recovered by then, because both he and Lara would want him at the wedding.
I've never thought that Lord Raith was going to come back. With Thomas in or under Demonreach and Harry pulled into a different reality, I suppose Papa Raith could recover, but Harry might spend three days in the Mirror Mirror place and return 10 seconds later. I don't think there are any hard rules we can apply with certainty here.
I've always pictured Lara finding the right moment when she will demonstrate that she has learned her father's kiss of death technique and has been reading the books in her dad's library and can pull off some other deadly tricks no one else in the White Court can do. I've pictured someone else in the White Court knocking off her dad, and now we know that he could just die on his own. In either situation Lara would have to show why she should be openly recognized as the leader of the White Court. Her father's Kiss of Death technique would be an effective way to start off a meeting to discuss who the next leader of the White Court should be.
Also, if her father should recover for just a few seconds or even a few hours and Harry were to suddenly return; in a contest of strength between Lord Raith and his daughter Lord Raith would suddenly lose the ability to feed and Lara would likely finish her dad off. Harry's return might actually force a situation where Lara Raith is no longer the de facto ruler of the White Court, she becomes the fully recognized ruler of the White Court. Imagine how the wedding between Harry and Lara would appear to the White Council then, especially if Lara were to publicly acknowledge Harry's assistance; or even better, his loyalty, even if Harry didn't really do anything other than return to his own world.
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even if Jim Butcher did not intend to create the scenario of lord Raith getting loose becouse of thomas being in demon reach and harry being in an alternative time line the concept is to rich for Butcher to pass up. it will happen and might even add an extra book to the series is my opinion. I could see a whole book being written where both harry come back from the mirror universe and Thomas is used to take out his dad by feeding directly on lord Raith or Lord Raith ends up inprisoned in Demon reach. there are many difrent possibilities for this story point.
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I doubt that Lord Raith will be full strength again.. In another dimension/reality? If that is where Harry goes, it may be that he finds a full strength Lord Raith there, but only if his mother never died and sent her death curse his way. Which may be the reason why the Harry in that reality is darker, and might not be star born, oh good grief, Lord Raith may be his father! :o