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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Tbora on June 04, 2010, 10:21:05 PM
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For a possible character concept I am thinking of a scythe whose blade is pure mordite how would i go about this?
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Um...not? Mordite just kills things.
Still, if you want to reflect it, I'd go with an Enchanted Item as the only thing vicious enough to properly reflect it. Call it a Weapon: 10 effect with as many uses per story as you can arrange. How much that'll cost will vary wildly depending on the character in question, but it's honna be at least a couple of Refresh.
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its for a grim reaper themed character, who is a spirit of Enthropy and Decay bound to a human skeleton like Bob is to a skull.
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Cool, but to be honest I was more talking about stats, since you need those to work out magical effects properly.
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I am working in a submerged and no stats have been decided could you help me work them out, basically there character is mean to be tough, fast, and good with melee weapons.I need to maximise the effectiveness of the scythe.
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Well, to be an Enchanted Item, the Scythe will need to grant some kind of magic...call it Ritual (Ectomancy) allowing you to effect ghosts in various ways, that'd make sense...
Okay here's a build:
Scythe of Death:
Item of Power [+2] effecting;
Ritual (Ectomancy) [-2]
Refinement (Extra Item Slots) [-2]
True Strike (As the Sword of the Cross power of the same name) [-1]
Total: -3 Refresh.
Enchanted Item:
Mordite Scythe Blade (Weapon: 10 attack with Weapons, thirteen times per session) [12 Item Slots]
Like a Warden's Sword, it was made by someone else. In this case someone with Superb Lore (you'll need to run this idea by your GM to get it accepted). Or have Superb Lore yourself, of course (you could do worse than Superb Lore and Weapons for the character listed).
Aside from the Scythe, I'd take Inhuman Speed [-2], Inhuman Recovery [-2], Inhuman Toughness [-2], Living Dead [-1] and a Catch worth at least +1 (I have no idea what Catch such a character would have). That should make you good to go.
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Cool, if I go with that, just what kind of smackdown could I lay with this weapon and such a character?
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Anything you hit with it is going to feel it, up to and including minor dieties. Anything you hit with less than Supernatural Toughness has to take Consequences or go down on any hit from it. Any mortal hit with it must take at least a Moderate Consequence or go down. For unarmored Mortals, make that a Severe Consequence, and even then only if they have 4 stress boxes.
The only thing I can think of that lays out comparable punishment is someone with Mythic Strength using a car as a melee weapon (total of Weapon: 11).
It's so ridiculously badass I'm not sure I'd even allow it in my game, and I'm usually a fairly permissive GM.
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well keep in mind he would get the scythe and virtually nothing else.
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True, and it's obvious as all get out. But still, I'd be leery of allowing it in my current group. I'd be more willing to allow it in a hypothetical optimized group (the 8-shift Evocation guy, the were-kodiak with Supernatural Strength and Toughness plus Hulking Size and Claws, and the gunman with Supernatural Speed, Wings, and a magic gun, just for example).
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sounds like my kind of group...
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Well, my current group are about equally cool, conceptually. They're just...less ideal mechanically. :)
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I will probably end up using Mr.Death in my Las Vegas RP, which you are free to join.
By the way how would you go about building a Kemmlerian Necromancer?
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It's still obscenely broken, it might fit in the rules but it's the kind of item that is usually reserved for plot reasons only. Expect every NPC in the same state to try to get their hands on the thing. Good guys will want to lock it away or use it for good and bad guys will want to wreak havok. It's better than excalibur itself!
Have you abandoned your fairly broken enchanted item guy then?
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No, as my char is not broken imo
EDIT: and its not better then excaliber, as according to arthurian myth excaliber guarentees invincibility on the battlefield.
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In the Dresden Files, it's strongly implied that Michael's sword 'Amoracchius' IS Excalibur.
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No, as my char is not broken imo
EDIT: and its not better then excaliber, as according to arthurian myth excaliber guarentees invincibility on the battlefield.
Right up to the point where Arthur died while wielding it in battle.
Actually, it was the scabbard that prevented the wearer from being cut. Still won't do jack against a tiny old Gruff using a railroad tie as a one handed melee weapon. :)
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Actually, it's only on par with Amorrachius (a -3 Item of Power). It does absolutely nothing to get rid of The Catch after all (something the Swords of the Cross do in fact do). I'd actually say those are about on par. Anything with Physical Immunity (and an Ogre style 'magic only' version might apply) can ignore this scythe like it's nothing...not so much a Sword.
And it was Excalibur's Scabbard that was supposed to make you invincible (and thus a -6 or so item granting Physical Immunity).
The Scythe is frightening, and something REQUIRING GM approval but not inherently game-breakingly so. It really depends on the power level and focuses of the other PCs.
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So DMW, how would you go about building a Kemmlerian Necromancer?
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I wouldn't. They are completely inappropriate for PC use. Just to start with, being one is -11 Refresh at a minimum (-7 Wizard, -2 Lawbreaker, -2 Sponsored Magic) and usually much higher. But more importantly they are EVIL!!! All capitalized and bolded for a reason.
If you're looking for how to build an NPC Kemmlerian, well, look at Grevane. He's a decent example, though I might rearrange the stats a little depending on how much of a threat you want him to be.
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Is the blade god(or some other immortal)-forged? Because theorectically the mordite will kill anyone else it comes into contact with. How is the mordite bound into blade form? By magic? What happens when a Warden sword comes into contact with such a blade? The magic unravels and you get mordite bits all over?
Alternatively a mordite-laced frag/gas suspension grenade sounds like a good weapon of last resort too. When you absolutely have to take the other mofo to hell with you.
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Is the blade god(or some other immortal)-forged? Because theorectically the mordite will kill anyone else it comes into contact with. How is the mordite bound into blade form? By magic? What happens when a Warden sword comes into contact with such a blade? The magic unravels and you get mordite bits all over?
Its not held together by magic, just old fashioned smithing.Mordite is a stone so it can be smelted into a metal.So warden sword wouldn't really do anything to it.As for who forged it, Well the Scythe is as old as Death itself, take that how you will...
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Its not held together by magic, just old fashioned smithing.Mordite is a stone so it can be smelted into a metal.So warden sword wouldn't really do anything to it.As for who forged it, Well the Scythe is as old as Death itself, take that how you will...
If you are going by Dresdenverse canon, the mordite would destroy the metal it was smelted with, and the tools used to smelt it, and a bunch of other bad stuff, unless some specialized magic was used to control it. It's basically anti-matter.
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I would rule that such constant exposure to mordite is likely to give you some nasty badness. Like cancer, all over your body, in every organ. Terminal cancer.
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if the character wielding it was alive and had a body of his own i'd use that ruling too, but the character wielding it is a spirit of Enthropy and Decay possessing a skeleton like Bob does a skull.He's not alive, so how could the Mordite harm him?
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If you are going by Dresdenverse canon, the mordite would destroy the metal it was smelted with, and the tools used to smelt it, and a bunch of other bad stuff, unless some specialized magic was used to control it. It's basically anti-matter.
Anything touched by it is disintegrated, so forging or shaping by traditional means would be impossible. It can be enchanted, so you could probably shape it into a weapon with a ritual. However, it's far worse than anti-matter, just being near it drains life force so carrying it around in weapon form would kill the user in short order unless they were a robot. Being undead isn't going to help either, you're reanimated through magical means and mordite drains that from a distance just as readily as it drains life. Being a spirit means you ARE magic, so you're just as screwed.
But if you wanted to be a Robot PC in my game, I'd let you, and the first time you got within 30 feet of any kind of magic practitioner, you'd explode.
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not necessarely, the physical form preserves him from being drained just like sue protected bob from being absorbed by the darkhallow in anycase we really dont know what effects mordite has beyond it kills things, so the whole drain magic is pure speculation as it has never been stated as such in cannon.leaving me in the free and clear, and even if not I'll BS it and say the skeleton he inhabits has been enchanted in such a way the body is immune to the effects of mordite allowing him to survive the effects.
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If you are going by Dresdenverse canon, the mordite would destroy the metal it was smelted with, and the tools used to smelt it, and a bunch of other bad stuff, unless some specialized magic was used to control it. It's basically anti-matter.
Well, Peabody was able to infuse a mistfiend with mordite. We don't know what a mistfiend is, but it doesn't seem to be an Outsider, so there seems to be some way to mix mordite with normal stuff without destruction.
(Also, I thought mordite just destroyed life, not matter?)
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Well, Peabody was able to infuse a mistfiend with mordite. We don't know what a mistfiend is, but it doesn't seem to be an Outsider, so there seems to be some way to mix mordite with normal stuff without destruction.
(Also, I thought mordite just destroyed life, not matter?)
You see, I got the distinct impression that the mistfiend was definitely an outsider. Oh well. I think there are things being discussed, which aren't necessarily the same problem. The first is that the proposed weapon is too powerful, which is something that he can discuss with his gaming group. The second is whether or not the mordite would make sense for his character to use in DF canon, which is something that can be hand waved if his group is comfortable with taking some liberties with the canon (which they probably are, since he is playing a grim reaper, after all).
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not a grim reaper a grim reaper themed character...
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not a grim reaper a grim reaper themed character...
Who is also a skeleton wielding a scythe that kills anything it touches...
I'd call that a distinction without a difference. :)
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You see, I got the distinct impression that the mistfiend was definitely an outsider.
I think that would have been mentioned, given all the White Council around and the Seventh Law...
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That's a terrifying weapon, both in mechanical terms and in terms of how the supernatural world would react to such a thing. Not something I'd let a player have in my game, but it would make for a very interesting plot device, especially if one of the PCs was offered the weapon in order to defeat a truly powerful opponent to save many lives...
Hmm, mind if I steal that?
To make the thing truly epic, why not also give it a Sword's ability to meet the Catch of any opponent for a scene by spending a Fate Point? You may as well go all-out. It is freaking mordite, after all.
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It's honestly not that scary.
Assuming that it's a submerged character, the weapon's not any easier to hit with then any other weapon would be(yeah, it does do more damage, though).
Of course, I happen to be in that Las Vegas game, so I'm slightly intrigued knowing that this is the type of RPC he has in mind.
Certainly has me shifting gears, anyway.
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Hmm, mind if I steal that?
As the creator, not at all. :)
To make the thing truly epic, why not also give it a Sword's ability to meet the Catch of any opponent for a scene by spending a Fate Point? You may as well go all-out. It is freaking mordite, after all.
Sure, that'll work (though I'll note we have no knowledge of Mordite doing that), though that'd add -3 to it's Refresh cost (for a total of -6).
It's honestly not that scary.
Assuming that it's a submerged character, the weapon's not any easier to hit with then any other weapon would be(yeah, it does do more damage, though).
Actually, it adds 1 to his Weapons, giving him an effective Weapons of 6, which is quite frightening combined with it's Weapon: 10 damage.
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Thanks! I'm working up some higher-power forces to try to recruit or put down my players, and the idea of someone trying to make deals with Death is just so awesome.
Of course, it would be one of those "accept this scythe and become an NPC" moments.
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DMW do you think you could help me stat out my skeleton's skills, powers, and stresses?
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I like this item, not because of what it is. It is truly scary. But if this flies in this game, imagine what else the GM is going to let in to balance that monstrosity. Here is my chainsaw of @$$K.
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DMW do you think you could help me stat out my skeleton's skills, powers, and stresses?
Yeah, sure. Basic description of what you want the character to be good at, and I can do a Submrged level PC pretty damn quick.
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I want him to be good with weapons, very tough and very fast.
For his powers I want something that can lay out the smackdown like no other, a killing machine, for the character concept.
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Skills:
Superb: Lore, Weapons,
Great: Athletics, Stealth,
Good: Conviction, Endurance,
Fair: Alertness, Discipline, Intimidation,
Average: Burglary, Empathy, Fists, Presence, Scholarship,
Powers:
Living Dead [-1]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch is ??? [+1]
Scythe of Death:
Item of Power [+2] effecting;
Ritual (Ectomancy) [-2]
Refinement (Extra Item Slots) [-2]
True Strike (As the Sword of the Cross power of the same name) [-1]
Total: -9 Refresh
Enchanted Items:
Mordite Scythe Blade (Weapon: 10 attack with Weapons, thirteen times per session) [12 Item Slots]
Stress:
Mental: OOOO
Physical: OOOO(OO)
Social: OOO
Armor: 1.
Notes:
I'd rule that Inhuman Recovery trumps the "You can't recover from Consequences." part of Living Dead, but others might disagree. If your GM does some modification may be in order.
If you take a +2 Catch instead of +1 you can afford an addition Refresh worth of stuff, I'd get the Weapons Stunt Riposte, personally.
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He's not really living dead he's just like Bob and the Skull, and wouldn't it be better for athletics to be superb instead of lore, have scythe be built by someone else?
And what is a catch of weakness to holy things/faith worth?
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Well, he is possessing a skeleton, that would seem to cover most of the aspects of Living Dead. And yes, if it's okay for someone else to have built the Scythe feel free to switch Lore and Athletics.
And it's +2, as the Denarian writeups clearly demonstrate.
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K so I have my catch then, what are my options regarding where I put that extra refresh?
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Well, like I said, Riposte is probably your best bet for raw killing, but Cloak of Shadows is also extremely appropriate. As is The Sight. But it's up to you, really.
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What is Cloak of Shadows?
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See YS p. 169. Basically, it gives the ability to see in the dark and +2 Stealth in shadowed areas. It's handy, and fairly appropriate.
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All of Living Dead's benefits have to do with looking dead and being indestructible by physical means. That seems to pretty accurately describe your character...
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He's not really living dead he's just like Bob and the Skull, and wouldn't it be better for athletics to be superb instead of lore, have scythe be built by someone else?
And what is a catch of weakness to holy things/faith worth?
Well, you might be able to use a stunt to add "being able to determine power of enchanted items" to a different skill.
If you actually want to have the scythe built and maintained by someone else, you are dependent on continuing access to them, their time, and attention.
If I was going to make it, I'd just go for
Item of power[+2] big scary scythe(Weapon[3])
Mythic Strength[-6] (+6 damage)
Total [-4] plus extra benefits as wanted
for +9 attacks all the time.
All backed by the aspect "Scythe of deadly cutting"
and have it understood from that that the mythic strength bonus only kicks in from cutting attacks, and other times it would be useful to be strong, you get this kicking in to generate fate points.
Can cut down to supernatural strength to still have a +7 strong attack, and not hit the don't take mythic anything limit.
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I actually considered that route, but it's a bit more expensive, and the route I went with seemed more appropriate for something that is just inimical to life mystically. I'd probably go that route for a god's axe or something, though.
And the Warden's Swords prove your point about other's magic items completely wrong. Once an item is made you need the slots for it to maintain it, but it uses the original creator's Lore and such without ever needing to be seen by them again. Otherwqise (since Luccio can't do the Sword thing any more), the Warden's Swords would already all be completely useless.
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The Black Scythe of Death
Item of Power. +2
Mythic Strength. -6
Super Powerful Weapon. -3 (this'll put the weapon, by itself at Weapon: 9, with Mythic Strength you are at Weapon: 15)
Inhuman Toughness -2
Inhuman Recovery -2
The Catch (Something worth +3) +3
This leaves you at 2 refresh.
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Um no, who says item has to be maintained. its not as if it degrades.The scythe is meant to be an ancient and powerful weapon, not something forged or meant to be wielded by mortal hand.
DMW, what does the character look like if I go with Riposte, take the holy catch, and switch out lore for athletics?
And how effective is this character over all?
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The Black Scythe of Death
Item of Power. +2
Mythic Strength. -6
Super Powerful Weapon. -3 (this'll put the weapon, by itself at Weapon: 9, with Mythic Strength you are at Weapon: 15)
Inhuman Toughness -2
Inhuman Recovery -2
The Catch (Something worth +3) +3
This leaves you at 2 refresh.
Now THAT is what I'll call game breaking ...
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Super Powerful Weapon. -3 (this'll put the weapon, by itself at Weapon: 9, with Mythic Strength you are at Weapon: 15)
I don't think this is a valid power. Claws (the closest approximation) is explicitly not allowed to stack with itself or be purchased multiple times. I'd be inclined to stick with that ruling, or we're going to wind up with Weapon: 7 knives in common usage...and that's just not a good idea.
Um no, who says item has to be maintained. its not as if it degrades.The scythe is meant to be an ancient and powerful weapon, not something forged or meant to be wielded by mortal hand.
Yep. Enchanted Items need to have Item Slots to keep them working...but this thing has them built in. It should last forever and work fine, mechanically.
DMW, what does the character look like if I go with Riposte, take the holy catch, and switch out lore for athletics?
Like this:
Skills:
Superb: Athletics, Weapons,
Great: Lore, Stealth,
Good: Conviction, Endurance,
Fair: Alertness, Discipline, Intimidation,
Average: Burglary, Empathy, Fists, Presence, Scholarship,
Stunts:
Riposte (Weapons)
Powers:
Living Dead [-1]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch is Holy Stuff [+2]
Scythe of Death:
Item of Power [+2] effecting;
Ritual (Ectomancy) [-2]
Refinement (Extra Item Slots) [-2]
True Strike (As the Sword of the Cross power of the same name) [-1]
Total: -9 Refresh
Enchanted Items:
Mordite Scythe Blade (Weapon: 10 attack with Weapons, thirteen times per session) [12 Item Slots]
Stress:
Mental: OOOO
Physical: OOOO(OO)
Social: OOO
Armor: 1.
And how effective is this character over all?
Quite effective. In physical combat he's pretty damn good defensively (though not unbeatable) and an offensive GOD, destroying most opponents quickly and almost casually. Outside combat, he's good at Lore and Stealth and a decent Ectomancer, but completely worthless at anything social except Intimidation, and only decent at that.
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Well, if thats the case you can always have the scythe itself give +3 to weapons (which would cost about -3 refresh). Thats stronger anyway, since he'd hit more often, and it would only lower the scythe down to weapon: 12.
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Well, if thats the case you can always have the scythe itself give +3 to weapons (which would cost about -3 refresh). Thats stronger anyway, since he'd hit more often, and it would only lower the scythe down to weapon: 12.
Again, no support for this ability even being allowed. +1 is clearly allowed (from Sword of the Cross) but stacking that strikes me as a truly bad idea and one that also recieves no support (the default is that powers do not stack, there's no reason to believe skill bonuses are an exception).
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True, but we have a basis for an always on power giving a one shift effect for about -1 refresh, basing it off the section that describes mortal stunts. If you like you can have him take the stunt:
Master of The Cutting Grass [-1]
You are a master of the Scythe. You receive a +1 bonus to weapons when using a Scythe.
Give the item the True Strike [-1] ability, and this power:
Mordite Blade [-1]
The blade of this weapon is forged from Mordite, which is anathema to all of creation. Increase the weapon rating of this item by 2.
This would let him get his weapons skill to +7 (Epic). The Mordite Blade ability would bring the scythe to Weapon: 5, and Mythic Strength would bring it to Weapon: 11.
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That'd only result in Weapons at Epic (7, actually). Other than that, yeah that'd work. :)
It's also -6 Refresh and not meaningfully more effective than the version I did (well, except for the Mortal Stunt, which tbora could totally get instead of Riposte if he wanted). I guess it doesn't have a limited number of uses but 13 plus 4 per fight isn't really a meaningfully limted number either...
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Your version would give him lawbreakers for killing mortals, right? I mean, as long as he is human, using an enchanted weapon to kill somebody will net you a lawbreaker (first) right?
How about this, which I think would be fairly bad assed.
Cost Power
-1 Master of the Cutting Grass
+2 Item of Power (The Black Scythe of Death)
-6 Mythic Strength
-1 Mordite Blade
-1 True Strike
-8 Physical Immunity
+6 The Stacked Catch (The Black Scythe of Death)
This leaves you at 1 refresh.
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Your version would give him lawbreakers for killing mortals, right? I mean, as long as he is human, using an enchanted weapon to kill somebody will net you a lawbreaker (first) right?
Debatably. Depends on GM opinions. Warden's Swords presumably don't do that, and this might be a similar situation. Though, honestly, he's a Bob-style spirit, not a human being so it may be a moot point.
Your version has the great disadvantage of not allowing any powers but the Scythe...which doesn't fit the character as envisioned or mentioned.
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Wardens swords dont do that because when they behead somebody they arent using magic. The Weapon: 10 attack that you put on the scythe though is magic. A warden might lop off your head, but he wont be doing it while triggering the weapon: 6 feature of his Warden's Sword. That would get him a lawbreaker, but just using the plain Weapon: 3 stats wouldn't.
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Wardens swords dont do that because when they behead somebody they arent using magic. The Weapon: 10 attack that you put on the scythe though is magic. A warden might lop off your head, but he wont be doing it while triggering the weapon: 6 feature of his Warden's Sword. That would get him a lawbreaker, but just using the plain Weapon: 3 stats wouldn't.
I'm not sure I agree. Most direct-effect Enchanted Items would count for Lawbreaker, but I'm not sure the Warden's Sword Weapon: 6 effect would, as it doesn't directly kill, it just makes the blade sharper. Call that advantage (not getting Lawbreaker from it) the upside for requiring the attack to be at melee range and made using the Weapons skill (something most Wizards are nowhere near maxed at).
It's all up to the GM and his or her interpretation, really.
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The weapon is built off of lore six, its just flavor that it makes a weaon: 6 sword stroke, it could make a weapon six laserbeam. The laserbeam/swordstroke are still magically created/enhanced.
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If that were true you could wield the attack with your Discipline (which is likely to be higher than your Weapons) if you desired. You can't. Form does actually matter somewhat.
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I actually considered that route, but it's a bit more expensive, and the route I went with seemed more appropriate for something that is just inimical to life mystically. I'd probably go that route for a god's axe or something, though.
And the Warden's Swords prove your point about other's magic items completely wrong. Once an item is made you need the slots for it to maintain it, but it uses the original creator's Lore and such without ever needing to be seen by them again. Otherwqise (since Luccio can't do the Sword thing any more), the Warden's Swords would already all be completely useless.
I thought it was clear, at least from the posting about the changes to enchanting to get rid of the 'always on' items, that Warden's swords were a special case, and not really a general mold to build off of.
I could see, if you wanted to have the legion of death, each of who has identical weapons, doing the same thing, but it is not a general thing.
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Nowhere in the rules does it say enchanted items degrade must be maintained.So long as item slots are open and it has them built in, it will last forever.Once created its solid, no reason to believe otherwise from what I can gather from the source books.
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Nowhere in the rules does it say enchanted items degrade must be maintained.So long as item slots are open and it has them built in, it will last forever.Once created its solid, no reason to believe otherwise from what I can gather from the source books.
Check out the developer posts at http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,17041.0.html
A bit of under the hood discussion of why the current enchanted item rules work the way they do.
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Yes, but nowhere does it say that maintenance must be done by anyone in particular. It's represented by devoting the Item slots to the item...which this character has done.
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Yes, but nowhere does it say that maintenance must be done by anyone in particular. It's represented by devoting the Item slots to the item...which this character has done.
In that case, why bother to base enchanted items off of lore? I can see a case being made for a special character background (see the legion of death comment), but as a default assumption, the power to back enchanted items is one of the major benefits of lore in the way magic is balanced.
I could see a stronger argument made for the case of sponsored magic, or Mark of Power[Death], where there is a strong tie to a specific entity as a power source.
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Once the slots are there, the enchanted item is assumed to be maintained in some fashion by the character. It's up to the GM and the player to agree on what this means in terms of narrative and flavour.
One option which comes to mind is that, as part of this character's role in wielding such a weapon, he is also instructed on the specific techniques needed to maintain the weapon properly, even if he was not the one who forged it, much like a swordsman would know how to care for a sword by keeping the scabbard oiled and the blade sharp, even though he would not have been the one to craft it.