ParanetOnline
McAnally's (The Community Pub) => Author Craft => Topic started by: Dresdenus Prime on November 29, 2011, 03:51:52 PM
-
I’ll get right to the question - would a fantasy series be successful in the here and now if it had a fantasy non-human character at the helm? It seems to me right now that most popular fantasy is human based, and doesn’t involve fantasy creatures as much anymore. Maybe I’m wrong. I haven’t had the chance to read much fantasy lately. Believe me when I begin to write my fantasy book I will. Plus right now I’m reading ASOIAF and that’s taking me half a year, but that’s why I’m asking on here.
So right now what I’m wrestling with is whether to make this story all human, or varying degrees of human and non-human fantasy type creature. Humans would still factor into the story, but there would be at least one non-human main character that the reader would follow.
***BONUS QUESTION!!!***
Assuming the story is a go on using fantasy non-human characters, as much as I love elves and dwarves, I believe their time has been well used, and I would love to dive into new ground. Would it be possible for me to create my own type of fantasy character? Or would the reader immediately turn away from that because it is something unfamiliar? Obviously it wouldn’t be completely out of left field. It would be somewhat subtle. Example: Elves have pointy ears just as Vulcans have pointy ears, but their traits and abilities are different.
Any advice is appreciated. Thanks a ton guys!
-
A non-human perspective has some appeal as long as they are relatable while just slightly alien. Perhaps work inanother character's perspective to ease things in(only works if your doing third person...) That said, I would read a first person book from an elves perspective, or a dwarfs, or a werewolves, or etc. It's just harder on the writer without obvious whiny bits(ala Drizzt. He's human except that he knows everyone hates him on sight and lives a long time... Some of the other drow perspective books convey the difference better though.)
-
It depends on how alien you make your character. Most standard fantasy and sci-fi races tend to be very near human in form and thought. Elves have pointy ears, live a long time, and have language and cultural differences from humans. Having a non-human as the main character is fine. Look at Lord of the Rings. The main characters are Hobbits. In fact, in the Hobbit you don't even see a Human (unless you count Gandalf) until Long Lake.
The reason this works is that hobbits are basically short gluttonous humans with an aversion to shoes. They are relatable.
Jim Butcher used non-humans quite well in the Codex Alera, and the Marat, Canim, and Icemen were nothing at all like traditional fantasy races. However, they had understandable motives and were relatable to the reader.
It's really hard to make something completely alien relatable. It's why you don't often see Star Trek stories with a Horta as a PoV character, or a Dr. Who from the Dalek point of view.
As an author, when you are creating your world, even if you use a long established fantasy race like elves or dwarves, they are a new race in that they are YOUR take on them. If you want to create a new race, go for it. But just make sure they have a well defined culture and don't think to differently than a human. Because humans only really understand other humans.
-
The major thing, as someone else said, is that the reader can relate to the character(s).
Unless you're looking for something completely alien in behavior.
In one of Andre Norton's books she mentions an alien that looks humanoid but was, I believe, alien to the tenth level - meaning that the alien had almost no points of relativity to human behavior or thought.
As for creating your own beings. I shouldn't think the readers would shy away from them, again see above.
I'm with you on elves and dwarves. They have been over used. Like vampires, werewolves to a degree, and now, sigh, zombies. Unless you can give them a whole new spin.
-
1) I'm with all these guys in saying that non-human PoV is okay, as long as the reader can relate to the character. Take for example the robots in Isaac Asimov's Robot series (i.e. Caves of Steel and so on). R. Daneel Olivaw is for all intents and purposes, non-human. His spin on things is very different than that of Elijah Bailey (vanilla human), but most readers (okay, me) find it easier to relate to Daneel than Elijah. Same is the case when you look at the short story Sally (again by Asimov), where one of the most important characters is Sally the positronic brained car. Loyalty, compassion, and a desire to do the right thing (whether that right thing is right for the character or "right" in general is another matter) are the driving factors for Sally's portrayal. And again readers can relate to the story and the character because they are emotions and behavior patterns that the readers know very well.
Only partly related to your question, but this desire to see "human" perpective on things is what drives websites like icanhascheezburger.com, where we "humanize" the cats.
2) I think most sci-fi/fantasy readers are used to going outside their "comfort zone" so long as the characters are gripping, the writing is good, and the story is interesting. Speaking for myself, I like to read at least one book by an author to decide whether it's something I want to continue reading. I can only assume most people who enjoy reading would be much the same way. :)
-
Another 'alien' point of view is Keith Laumer's BOLOS.
The giant AI tanks. If you go through the stories you see how they start off as super smart computer operated tanks and gradually become Artificial intelligent war machines.
-
David Weber's War God Series has a non human as the main character.
Bazhell Bahnakson is a hradani, one of the four races of man. They are larger and tougher than humans (Bazhell is like eight feet tall). Male hradani are subject to bouts of Bezerker anger, known as the Rage.
I can't remeber the author or series, but I do remember seeing a series of novels that had a goblin as the main character.
Craig
-
I think Patricia Briggs did the ones with the Goblin as the main character.
I read the first one and liked it.
-
A great read on a non-human(oid) character would be Tad Williams Tailchaser's Song (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailchaser%27s_Song). When you read it, you are not reading about a furry man, you are reading about a cat, and you never forget it, because of the way it is written. And that is what using a non-human as the main character should be all about, in my opinion.
When you are reading about an elven main character, but the story is written like he is a tall skinny man with pointy ears, what's the point? The alien thoughts and view on the world have to be conveyed, to make the reader feel and understand the difference. If you can't or won't do this, there really is no point to having a non-human viewpoint character. Of course, the more you stray from a human viewpoint, the harder it is going to be to deliver this understanding to the reader. Writing from the point of view of a two headed lizard connected to a hive mind... to say it is going to be tough might be an understatement.
OTOH, if you overdo it, it is going to read like "I'm an elf, oh you can't believe how elvish I am, check out my elvishness, you will never be as elvish as I am." Or dwarf, which was what threw me off the dwarves book by Markus Heitz.
I guess the non-humaness should come naturally, if that makes any sense. If you try to pound it into the character, it will fail as much as the human with pointy ears.
-
^
Yeah, it's like when someone tries to do a female warrior and she just comes across as a guy
in a woman's skin. It doesn't work and doesn't read right.
-
Worse yet, it's hard to tell if your doing that right without feedback.
-
^
Very true. That's where bluntly honest friends and beta readers come in.
-
^
Very true. That's where bluntly honest friends and beta readers come in.
That bluntly honest bit... It's hard to find.
-
True.
Most people don't want to hurt your feelings and a very, very few get too savage.
-
It seems surprising that you need to ask in a world and fan base where Tolkein is, and always will be, king. Also, look at the popularity of Avator. It is, as Snowleapord and others have asked, 'do readers relate to the character and the character's journey/plight/whatever.' That is the ultimate test.
And it isn't just fantasy. Watership Downs doesn't even have humans (at least not technically, but arguably the rabbits are humans disguised) and I still remember and love the book. It is a classic.
Non-human away! I would suggest concrete understanding of the character so it never becomes wishy-washy.
Enjoy!
-
I'm an orignalist I guess. I truly enjoy the classic stories of human struggles in an epic fantasy setting more than any other substitute. I'm not a big fan of non-human races being the MC's.
-
I think, as mentioned before, that in all but the most experimental fiction, we enjoy seeing the human traits in a non-human character. Not all of Brust's characters are human but they have human traits. Whether it's love, honor, sorrow, courage, fear, etc. give the readers something to let them relate to the main character and if it's well written they will like it.
I read an interesting short story once about two very advanced aliens from different races that were watching two human settlers, a husband and wife, on a new planet and trying to figure out why they did the things they did. Neither alien came from a bisexual race that had families as we know them so it took them some time to recognise the emotion that we call love. On the other hand the aliens felt curiousity, friendship, and even some form of compassion so although they were definitely alien there was enough for the reader to relate to and enjoy both the similarities and the differences.
-
Everyone, thank you so much for the incredible feedback. Pretty much every single reply has given me a lot to think about and has assisted me in furthering my brainstorming of this project.
I'm an orignalist I guess. I truly enjoy the classic stories of human struggles in an epic fantasy setting more than any other substitute. I'm not a big fan of non-human races being the MC's.
I think I can help you Darkshore! There will be humans in this story, and they will be the underdogs of the tale. Through some event or disadvantage they were made one of the lowest races of the book, and part of the main plot will be how one of the human characters helps to elevate them back to a higher status.
Again thanks everyone, I think the biggest lesson I've learned from this is that I need to learn how to write from the perspective of the humanoid races. Like someone else said, if I write an elf as a human with pointy ears what's the point? The reader will just take that as laziness on my part. I've got to come up with a thought process that belongs to them alone, along with habits and lifestyle. Phew. I've got some work to do!
-
Good Luck and have fun.
-
The big thing about other races is that that they need to be relatable enough that the reader can identify with them, but different enough so that they arent just funny looking humans. The most common way Ive seen for that is to take the normal human trait mix, but skew it so that one aspect is heavily exaggerated. Elves that are all inhumanly graceful and long-lived, or maybe place an exaggerated importance on Nature. Dwarves that are rough and abrasive. Vampires that hate themselves. Werewolves with temper issues. Of course, that route will take you dangerously close to some of the over-used cliches out there, but if you put your own spin on it and run with it, you can sometimes find yourself with an interestingly new thing. Those sorts of ideas, for me, usually start with a What-If statement. A good example (despite later becoming the angst cliche) were the Anne Rice Lestat books, in that it took a human and asked "What if your physiology only had one requirement?" Well lets see, all the signals and responses your body has to inputs would combine, so lust, hunger, thirst, warmth and breathing would all be one unified urge, and partaking of that would combine the satisfaction of getting all of those things at once. Then you make it a predatory need that runs counter to the common community/herd based morality, and you have both your relatable similarity, and your exaggerated distinction.
On the other hand, you can make the differences themselves the exaggerated element, which is probably a bit harder to manage, but can provide a sharper contrast. I havent read Oz's example, but Ive seen Mating Habits of the Earthbound Human, which sounds like its basically the same idea; its a normal Boy Meets Girl type love story, but its narrated as if an alien anthropologist were studying strange clothed apes in their natural habitat. The trick with those stories is to use the dramatic differences to raise questions or point out social/cultural oddities that the reader can relate to, rather than relating to the alien character themselves. In that film, it was mostly assigning ridiculous sounding motivations for various aspects of the modern courtship process, with a heavily satirical tone (The Narrator is voiced by David Hyde Pierce). Great flick...
-
As long as your character is someone your audience can connect with and relate to it should not be an issue if he/ she/it is not Human.