ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: toodeep on November 23, 2020, 05:16:07 PM
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Harry is no longer on the White Council, which is a member of the Accords. They have cast him out. They seem to be arguing that they can still come at him for breaking the laws even if he isn't a member, which is weird, but they do it to practitioners too weak to join the council so there is precedent.
But what if Harry were to join the accords like Marcone did? Then he would be protected from the Council by the accords, and they can't really claim he's part of their group anymore.
So he would need three signatures that would be willing to irk the council. I assume he can get winters. Probably also Bigfoot's if his people actually join the council like he seemed to be proposing. Ivy? Think he could get Fix to sign for summer if Bigfoot doesn't join? If he's looking at starting an organization and people are going to start to move against him anyways... it seems like being a signatory of the accords might be useful. Maybe make Goodman a permanent retainer, hire the hellhound if he can afford it, get a permanent detachment of winter goons to control, that kind of thing. I wonder if Bigfoot would be willing to take on young human apprentices recruited from the paranet that would fall under Harry's organization rather than the council...
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I wonder if Bigfoot would be willing to take on young human apprentices recruited from the paranet that would fall under Harry's organization rather than the council...
I like this part of the idea! This could be JB's YA title involving Maggie.
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Wait, are you actually suggesting that Harry should form an organisation dedicated to protecting him so he can break the Laws of Magic?
Because that's a far cry from avoiding problems with the Council, that would be a direct declaration of War.
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I don't think it matters if Harry is still a member of the White Council or not, he breaks the Laws of Magic, they will lop his head off. They do it with young warlocks all of the time, the Korean Kid wasn't a member, Molly wasn't when they put her on trial and would have lopped her head off. Likewise with young Harry, he didn't even know there was such a thing as the White Council. What might give them pause now is Harry has many powerful connections now that the Council doesn't want to piss off.
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But if Harry no longer qualifies as human he is outside their jurisdiction.
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Harry is still a member of an accorded nation. Winter.
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They left Harry alive at the end of BG because of Mab but even that wouldn't be enough if he went full warlock like Kemmler, they'd want to stop him at any cost before he can kick off an apocalypse. And if Mab isn't a big enough deterrent then whatever Harry can gather around him won't be either.
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But if Harry no longer qualifies as human he is outside their jurisdiction.
Harry is still human, even as Winter Knight, they are mortal humans.
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Harry is still human, even as Winter Knight, they are mortal humans.
For now. Mab obviously has plans.
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The OP's thinking is asked and answered in the book. Being a member of the Accords wouldn't keep him out of trouble any more than it kept Marcone out. He threatened the Council with Mab and told then to shove off. He threatened Carlos with Molly. And basically has a pet God with which to rampage through the White Councils underwear drawers.
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The OP's thinking is asked and answered in the book. Being a member of the Accords wouldn't keep him out of trouble any more than it kept Marcone out. He threatened the Council with Mab and told then to shove off. He threatened Carlos with Molly. And basically has a pet God with which to rampage through the White Councils underwear drawers.
Being a member of Mab's court however gives him protection against some sorts of attack. His enemies must operate in a way that is not seen as an attack on Mab's court. Preferably in such a way that Mab sees it as a consequence of Harry's stupidity.
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And basically has a pet God with which to rampage through the White Councils underwear drawers.
Wait what?
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Wait what?
:) Refers to a break in 40 year ago and the things you think of when you've found people were in your home while you weren't there. And it sounds cool.
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Wait, wait, what? What break in? What pet God? WTF?
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Wait, wait, what? What break in? What pet God? WTF?
^ this. +1
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@Wicked Woodpecker of West
Call it a pet Titan if you want, Jim muddies the water so much that what he chooses to call what makes little difference. He can call out the Titan if he wishes. So says Battle Ground. And he could maybe call out any critter in Demonreach. Did we read the same book?
The break in was at my home in the early 80's and they pawed around in my wife's underwear drawer. They also stole a fifth of Vodka, eight Big Reds, and let my dog out. This is where I took the phrase from.
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The Winter Knight also joining as a freeholding lord would be kind of a balance issue with Summer.
*Maybe* the Paranet could sign, with him and Elaine as heads, but the Paranet doesn't have a whole lot of street cred for fighting ability outside of Harry himself, considering Elaine has been sandbagging to keep her true ability secret. The organization signing the accords might attract attention from challengers, and that would put the little fish in exactly the kind of danger the Paranet is supposed to help them avoid.
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Harry is better of as wjnter knight than as freeholding lord
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Well, if the Baron can join forces with a Denarian, I am sure a freeholding lord can be the WK too. The only reason I see him doing that, though, is precisely so JB can stress the parallels between Harry and Marcone. But I don't think this is going to happen soon.
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The Winter Knight also joining as a freeholding lord would be kind of a balance issue with Summer.
Only if he does so as the Winter Knight.
But I don't think this [Harry joining the Accords as a freeholding lord] is going to happen soon.
I was going to object based on Harry's thoughts that he needs to build something like Marcone has so he can defend Chicago, but he doesn't have to join the Accords to build up a force to be reckoned with.
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Well, if the Baron can join forces with a Denarian, I am sure a freeholding lord can be the WK too. The only reason I see him doing that, though, is precisely so JB can stress the parallels between Harry and Marcone. But I don't think this is going to happen soon.
It's not like Marcone asked Mab's blessing to take up the coin. Even then though, there was no double membership issue since the Denarians were out by then.
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I thought only Nicodemus has been kicked out.
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I thought only Nicodemus has been kicked out.
It's unclear even who was a member of the Accords, let alone who got kicked out.
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It's unclear even who was a member of the Accords, let alone who got kicked out.
He was, the plot in Small Favor was build on it. He is not. That also was a logical concusion of small favor and confirmed in skin game.
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He was, the plot in Small Favor was build on it. He is not.
Was Nicodemus a member of the Accords or were the Denarians? I'm saying it's unclear how he was a member. Personally or as part of a group.
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I think the Denarians in group were members, but I don't think they would kick everyone for what Nic did, so I understood that is something as if the Denarians had rejected Nic. There is a word in English that can't find now but it is something like when a father abjures of one of his children, so they are no longer his heirs.
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Call it a pet Titan if you want, Jim muddies the water so much that what he chooses to call what makes little difference. He can call out the Titan if he wishes. So says Battle Ground. And he could maybe call out any critter in Demonreach. Did we read the same book?
Ah, this one! OK, I'm owned. I'd never ever consider to call Ethniu and Alfred's menagerie as pet gods ;)
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The Winter Knight also joining as a freeholding lord would be kind of a balance issue with Summer.
*Maybe* the Paranet could sign, with him and Elaine as heads, but the Paranet doesn't have a whole lot of street cred for fighting ability outside of Harry himself, considering Elaine has been sandbagging to keep her true ability secret. The organization signing the accords might attract attention from challengers, and that would put the little fish in exactly the kind of danger the Paranet is supposed to help them avoid.
This is an idea that has been brought up, off and on, going way back. OK, lets say Harry and Elaine are the recognized heads of the Paranet. Assume that at some future date Elaine's actual magical ability level is seen by someone on the Council. Most likely it will be Carlos. Then the Paranet starts to look like a competing organization for wizards who don't want to be a part of the White Council and that it only takes in lower talents as a smokescreen. In other words, it starts to look like a Black Council.
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The Winter Knight also joining as a freeholding lord would be kind of a balance issue with Summer.
*Maybe* the Paranet could sign, with him and Elaine as heads, but the Paranet doesn't have a whole lot of street cred for fighting ability outside of Harry himself, considering Elaine has been sandbagging to keep her true ability secret. The organization signing the accords might attract attention from challengers, and that would put the little fish in exactly the kind of danger the Paranet is supposed to help them avoid.
On that note:
Priscellie: What would the Paranet have to do to be considered a big enough body to sign the accords? And this is from poly? granada?
Jim: Oh they'd have to win some fights, is what they'd have to do. At the end of the day, in the supernatural world, among the various political powers, what gets you respect is the ability to thrash them. And if you can do that then they have to take you seriously because if they don't then you can thrash them. So that would be what they would really have to do, it would be something, a very difficult thing for them to do. It'd take an awful lot of coordination and leadership so it would take an awful extreme situation for something like that to come together. And I can't imagine where in the Dresden Files universe an extreme situation like that might exist *smirks and lifts mug while Priscellie laughs*.
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I think the Denarians in group were members, but I don't think they would kick everyone for what Nic did, so I understood that is something as if the Denarians had rejected Nic. There is a word in English that can't find now but it is something like when a father abjures of one of his children, so they are no longer his heirs.
Disinherit, excommunicate, shun, ostracize, disown?
One time I had the Spanish vocab word "frustrar" and couldn't recall the English word. The irony was not lost on me.
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It's unclear even who was a member of the Accords, let alone who got kicked out.
“Marcone is not someone to cross lightly,” I said. “Not only that, but he’s a member of the Accords.” “I’m not,” Nicodemus said. “Not any longer.” “I am,” I said. “Twice. As a Wizard of the White Council and as the Winter Knight.”
Butcher, Jim. Skin Game: A Novel of the Dresden Files (p. 206). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
So I guess that Harry can be as many members of the Accord as he wants, but Nic is out.
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Thanks, morriswalters.
Disinherit, excommunicate, shun, ostracize, disown?
One time I had the Spanish vocab word "frustrar" and couldn't recall the English word. The irony was not lost on me.
Thanks! The word I had in mind was disown.
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I favor the Za Lord being a Signatory
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I favor the Za Lord being a Signatory
That'd step on the toes of the Faerie queens, I expect. They kind of claim all the Fae, like the WC claims all human mages. It's why imprisoning the faeries in White Night was a calculated insult from the Raiths.