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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: KurtinStGeorge on July 15, 2019, 04:40:30 AM
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Right now we know Thomas, Ramirez and Marcone will be in Peace Talks, even if we don't know how extensive their roles will be. From this limited information we can guess that Lara Raith, Justine and probably Ms. Gard will also be on hand. Mr. Hendricks is somewhat in doubt, but I wouldn't be surprised if he will be on the scene too. I also think there's a good chance Lady Molly will make an appearance. Beyond those characters it's anyone's guess who else we will see. There will certainly be a fomor and some servitors and someone important; maybe more than one important person, from the White Council. So name one character you really want to see in Peace Talks and why?
I really want to see the Merlin. There is a thread speculating on whether Ebenezer will survive PT. I think it's a good guess that Ebenezer will be in Peace Talks, or maybe it was mentioned in the first chapter of Peace Talks that he will show up, I don't remember. What I don't want to see is Eb showing up with someone I don't really care about like Ancient Mai or Martha Liberty. Maybe one or both could be interesting, but I really want to see Arthur Langtry's reaction the first time he sees Harry again. I want to know what he thought when Harry wiped out the Red Court. I want to know if he really wanted Harry to attack the Red's and he just used a little reverse psychology to goad Harry into doing so. I want to learn about what has been happening within the White Council. How close did it come to civil war? What has Cristos been up to and is the Council fully stabilized or are there still tensions that threaten to tear it apart? Finally, I want to see Harry say something to the Merlin that makes his eye twitch.
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Yeah, the first meeting between Harry and Langtry should be pretty epic. That needs to be recorded in the book.
I hope Sarissa and Fix make an appearance. I want to know how they are after Cold Days.
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I would like to see some Black court Elders (maybe Mavra?), high-ranking Fomor & the interactions between Fix/Sarissa/Titania.
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Jim Butcher, who will be introduced in one scene only for his manuscript-in-progress to be wiped out when Harry wanders too close to his laptop, then he goes off grumbling that he has to start the whole book over again and he'll have to tell his publisher to push the release date back a few years.
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Fitz would be interesting to see again.
Jim Butcher, who will be introduced in one scene only for his manuscript-in-progress to be wiped out when Harry wanders too close to his laptop, then he goes off grumbling that he has to start the whole book over again and he'll have to tell his publisher to push the release date back a few years.
Are you sure it won't be George R. Martin?
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A couple years back I was pushing pretty hard for Tilly's return. I'd still like it if it turned out he's become a kind of FBI equivalent to Murphy after Changes, and showed up at the Peace Talk summit to speak up for vanilla mortals. Double fun points if his attendance was sponsored by Baron Marcone, because it'd be wonderful to see Tilly gritting his teeth to cooperate with "villain, scum" for the greater good.
I think we're also due for an Elaine visit (overdue? I can't remember anymore. I'm getting old.)
Cowl is also a reasonable bet, I believe. Whether or not he'll be wearing his namesake is a different question, but I'm sure Cowl, disguised or not, will be at the summit.
I also think Listens-to-Wind will be there. We haven't seen him since he extended his offer to teach Harry about Anger Management, which is a lesson Harry could really use right now.
Dollars to doughnuts that Vaderrung will be there (not Kringle, though). He's a Signatory with a vested interest in negotiating peace.
Cristos will probably be there too. I'm willing to bet money that he'll be trying to maneuver and wheel and deal behind the scenes. I hope a Trickster god drops a piano on him. Or Harry just lights him on fire. Boy oh boy, do I hate smugness.
Haven't seen Billy since Ghost Story and Georgia since Turn Coat, so it wouldn't surprise me if there was an Alpha presence. I can picture Harry calling them up to act as a secret backup plan. On the other hand, this is exactly the kind of attention Harry was trying to keep them away from, so... maybe not. Though I think Peace Talks may devolve into an All Hands on Deck situation.
As others have pointed out, Mavra is a possibility. Especially since the Black Court is a signatory.
Nobody else comes to mind about whom I have a strong opinion.
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I think Jim let something slip a little at the ConnectIcon panel this last weekend. He made a comment about Rivershoulders representing the Forest People at the Peace Talks... So there will be at least one powerful participant who will have Harry's back.
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I want to know if he really wanted Harry to attack the Red's and he just used a little reverse psychology to goad Harry into doing so.
If the he comes right out and says that in Peace Talks, what do you want to bet that the issue will still be hotly contested here? I can see it now: "he was just taking credit for the plan."
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A lot of people already said which characters I would like to see too. Hm, I think I'd like to see as well would be the Paranet in general, but other than say Abbey, I don't know who would act as representative. I would like to see the Paranet try to get a seat at the big kids table as it were.
Yeah, I'm gaining more or an appreciation of Langtry as a character. Huh.
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If the he comes right out and says that in Peace Talks, what do you want to bet that the issue will still be hotly contested here? I can see it now: "he was just taking credit for the plan."
No bet. That would be an ongoing debate among fans for several books. I mean, we still have debates about whether or not everyone Lily claimed were actually Infected, and that was also spoken about as plainly as possible. The Merlin is a politician, and I can see him taking credit for something he had no part in, because he's done similar things before. Dude's a weasel. Just... a weasel with access to orbital nukes and carrying a BFG-9000. Meanwhile, Harry's got the number to Pizza 'Spress.
A lot of people already said which characters I would like to see too. Hm, I think I'd like to see as well would be the Paranet in general, but other than say Abbey, I don't know who would act as representative. I would like to see the Paranet try to get a seat at the big kids table as it were.
Yeah, I'm gaining more or an appreciation of Langtry as a character. Huh.
I'd like that a lot, too. It would be pretty cool to see the Have Nots try to speak up at something like this. There's precedent for their representation too, with Harry challenging the White Court vamps to a duel on their behalf in White Night (something about how they fall under the White Council's "legitimate interests" or some such legalese).
I think Jim let something slip a little at the ConnectIcon panel this last weekend. He made a comment about Rivershoulders representing the Forest People at the Peace Talks... So there will be at least one powerful participant who will have Harry's back.
That would be really cool, especially after the Genoskwa situation in Skin Game. I'd love to see Harry and River Shoulders have a conversation about the different factions within the Forest People.
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[The Merlin]'s a weasel. Just... a weasel with access to orbital nukes and carrying a BFG-9000. Meanwhile, Harry's got the number to Pizza 'Spress.
Harry's upped his game ever since Turn Coat. He just didn't realize it until Cold Days.
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A couple years back I was pushing pretty hard for Tilly's return. I'd still like it if it turned out he's become a kind of FBI equivalent to Murphy after Changes, and showed up at the Peace Talk summit to speak up for vanilla mortals. Double fun points if his attendance was sponsored by Baron Marcone, because it'd be wonderful to see Tilly gritting his teeth to cooperate with "villain, scum" for the greater good.
+1 for Tilly, for all the reasons you say.
Also: I just like the character, and I want to see more of him!
I think we're also due for an Elaine visit (overdue? I can't remember anymore. I'm getting old.)
From her own motivations, I think Elaine wants to stay off the radar, and would avoid a high-powered, high-profile event like this, if at possible!
Of course (as we see from Harry's life!) sometimes a young wizard's "own motivation" to avoid certain situations don't line up with "what's possible!"
Haven't seen Billy since Ghost Story and Georgia since Turn Coat, so it wouldn't surprise me if there was an Alpha presence. I can picture Harry calling them up to act as a secret backup plan. On the other hand, this is exactly the kind of attention Harry was trying to keep them away from, so... maybe not. Though I think Peace Talks may devolve into an All Hands on Deck situation.
The Alpha's are "only" a pack of werewolves. They make a decent physical threat, but are too much at risk from other powerful players with mental/magical forces. I expect Harry will want to keep them off-stage, as they're outclassed.
Things WILL go to hell, of course, and an "AHoD situation" (with the Alpha's coming in) is entirely likely.
As others have pointed out, Mavra is a possibility. Especially since the Black Court is a signatory.
Hrm... It's not clear to me that "the Black Court" exists any longer as "an entity" to be "signatory" to the Accords. Maybe individual Blampires could sign on? Most of them are pretty powerful -- survivors of the Stoker purge -- other than whatever scourges/lesser vamps they have created since.
Their power -- as a group -- is apparently broken. Mavra (or any other Blampire) couldn't credibly claim to represent the Black Court, or reliably negotiate / make commitments on behalf of the BC.
HOWEVER... At the end of Dead Beat, Harry threatens Mavra, tells her never to try to use his friends against him, because... now he knows how to use Kemmlerian Necromancy against the BCV's. But she's a reasonably powerful sorceress in her own right (tutored Bianca, who was able to survive a full-power strike of Harry's), and now Mavra has the Word. So presumably now, SHE knows how to use Kemmlerian necromancy... which may well have given her the edge she needed to re-unite the Black Court, with herself as Black Queen. I can see her showing up in that capacity!
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I think I'd like to see Elaine if it was done well. Early on, I "shipped" Harry and Elaine because they made sense together, but the more time passes, the less it seems like something that would work (from a story perspective more than a relationship perspective).
I don't dislike Tilly, but don't really care if I see him ever again. I wouldn't mind him showing up, I just don't care if he does.
Outside of Harry's usual crew, I like, and therefore would like to see them on page more, Mort and Ramirez (and all of the young wardens who have gotten any page time and a name (who aren't dead)).
I'd like to see just about any government official who has given Harry an unreasonably hard time about him being a "phony" have to eat crow, but most of the ones who it would be the most satisfying from have never even shown up on page. It's mostly Murphy's bosses I'd like to see having to beg for help and forgiveness.
On the flip side of seeing characters I like in Peace Talks, a lot of characters who show up in Peace Talks could be on the chopping block.
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Well, you're going to get your wish with Carlos, as he's organizing security. Mort... I'm not so sure about. Maybe. I don't know if he'd fit until we learn more about the book.
Yeah, I wouldn't mind an Elaine/Harry pairing, but I just don't see it happening without big narrative changes.
I recall a WoJ that Tilly's going to be back eventually. I don't have it handy, but I remember reading him confirming it, possibly in one of the Reddit AMA threads.
Government official... not sure. But Rudolph? I think it's possible Harry made a vanilla mortal version of Ace during Changes. I can totally see that mealymouthed sh*tweasel losing everything after Changes (Harry infers that Rudy was being paid off by the Reds, cuz his house and car were way above what he should've been able to afford, so that income's lost. I can also see him getting in huge official trouble if Tilly followed up on Harry's hunch about his espionage activity), then doing what he can to destroy Harry, but utterly failing. Publicly, in front of the girl he likes.
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What makes you say Carlos is organizing the talks? Do we even know who is hosting them?
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What makes you say Carlos is organizing the talks? Do we even know who is hosting them?
The first chapter released as part of the card game kickstarter includes Carlos approaching Harry, telling him he (Carlos) is heading up security.
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Ooh Tilly. I really want to see Listens to Wind to talk to the alphas that'd be fun
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The first chapter released as part of the card game kickstarter includes Carlos approaching Harry, telling him he (Carlos) is heading up security.
Thanks. I didn't partake in the kickstarter and haven't read the chapter, but thought I had heard everything important about it already. Hadn't heard that.
@123 Chickadee: I'd like to see a little meeting of shapeshifters. It'd be really cool if in latter books/stories it we saw some new skill from the Alphas that he taught them.
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I want to know if he really wanted Harry to attack the Red's and he just used a little reverse psychology to goad Harry into doing so. I want to learn about what has been happening within the White Council.
If the he comes right out and says that in Peace Talks, what do you want to bet that the issue will still be hotly contested here? I can see it now: "he was just taking credit for the plan."
I could see the Merlin claiming credit for the destruction of the Red Court after he heard that Harry was dead. After all, the news of both events would have hit the White Council at the same time. The Merlin's story might have changed some. Harry was following the Merlin's plan, they had just disagreed over the timing of the attack, or something similar. Except to his closest allies, I don't think Arthur Langtry would openly brag that he got Harry killed by goading him to attack the Red Court. (Though I don't know if Langtry has anymore close associates now that Morgan and Peabody are dead. Ancient Mai might be a political ally, but it's difficult to know if they are more than allies of convenience.) In fact, it's possible Langtry gave Harry some type of eulogy as a "Hero of the White Council" while secretly gloating over the news of Harry's likely death.
From her own motivations, I think Elaine wants to stay off the radar, and would avoid a high-powered, high-profile event like this, if at possible!
Of course (as we see from Harry's life!) sometimes a young wizard's "own motivation" to avoid certain situations don't line up with "what's possible!"
I've never thought that Elaine would want to be a part of the talks, but I could see her being in the story. A long time ago I posted a WAG that Elaine might actually want to derail the peace talks between the Council and the Fomor. As one of the founders of the Paranet; and probably it's leader in her part of the country, I doubt Elaine or any other members of the Paranet would like to see the Fomor left to do whatever they want those who can't protect themselves within whatever territory the Fomor might be granted.
HOWEVER... At the end of Dead Beat, Harry threatens Mavra, tells her never to try to use his friends against him, because... now he knows how to use Kemmlerian Necromancy against the BCV's. But she's a reasonably powerful sorceress in her own right (tutored Bianca, who was able to survive a full-power strike of Harry's), and now Mavra has the Word. So presumably now, SHE knows how to use Kemmlerian necromancy... which may well have given her the edge she needed to re-unite the Black Court, with herself as Black Queen. I can see her showing up in that capacity!
That is an interesting idea!
I hope Sarissa and Fix make an appearance. I want to know how they are after Cold Days.
Seeing Sarissa could be fun, but I have a bad feeling about Fix. I don't see good things for him in the future. In Cold Days, Mother Summer told Harry that all Knights of Summer and Winter have the ability to remain themselves, but few do. We know the negative effects that occur when the Winter Knight let's the Winter mantel choose their actions for them. We haven't seen what happens when the Summer Knight lets Summer all the way in. I have a feeling it won't be pretty. I think what kept Fix stable was his love for Lilly, looking out for her and trying to help her deal with her own mantel. Now that she's gone I don't see him lasting very long. He doesn't know Sarissa and he probably doesn't trust or even like Titania. Titania didn't pick Fix as the Summer Knight, so it's not like she even sees him as a useful tool. Enough said, you get where I'm going with this.
About Agent Tilly. I think his return could be very interesting, but I don't think it will happen in Peace Talks. Tilly might be the head of some kind of X-Files department at the moment, but my guess is it will be the events of Peace Talks that brings him out of the shadows and gives him more authority in a later novel. If Peace Talks gets mini-apocalyptic; as Jim has stated it will be, that will be when mortal authorities go from using covert operatives to gather intelligence to decide to become fully involved. I think that is when we will see Agent Tilly again.
If Murphy is mostly in rehab with at most a phone call or two to Harry in the whole book, I doubt we will see Rudolph. He's Murphy's enemy as much as Harry's.
No one has mentioned the Eebs. I doubt they survived the Erlking's dungeon, but if they and the Red Court are going return, I think Peace Talks would be a good time for that to happen. I don't like the idea of the Eebs surviving (unless they were killed in Peace Talks without creating anymore of their kind) because it would in effect be saying that in the larger picture nothing can ever really change. Individuals can come and go, but the major powers can never really disappear.
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Seeing Sarissa could be fun, but I have a bad feeling about Fix. I don't see good things for him in the future. In Cold Days, Mother Summer told Harry that all Knights of Summer and Winter have the ability to remain themselves, but few do. We know the negative effects that occur when the Winter Knight let's the Winter mantel choose their actions for them. We haven't seen what happens when the Summer Knight lets Summer all the way in. I have a feeling it won't be pretty. I think what kept Fix stable was his love for Lilly, looking out for her and trying to help her deal with her own mantel. Now that she's gone I don't see him lasting very long. He doesn't know Sarissa and he probably doesn't trust or even like Titania. Titania didn't pick Fix as the Summer Knight, so it's not like she even sees him as a useful tool. Enough said, you get where I'm going with this.
Oooooh, I like this. I mentioned in another thread how Harry having an opposing Knight who knew and somewhat trusted him was a little too convenient for Harry... but you've really thought this through. I can see this happening... poor Fix.
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How the Merlin spun Harry's death could be played so many ways by Jim. It's plot relevance alone could easily range from not mentioning it at all to it being a major plot point. Even if it isn't ever mentioned in the books, I can't imagine the Merlin didn't at least attempt to derive some political benefit from Harry's defeat of the Red Court and death.
I think I missed your theory about Elaine, but it seems like a sound idea.
Just because Fix stops being Fix doesn't mean he would stop trusting Harry. The Summer Knight formerly known as Fix would still have all the information necessary to trust Harry and maybe use that to try to get the better of Harry. On the other hand, based on the way Fix has behaved towards Harry since Small Favor, it could be argued that the Mantel has been doing all the driving for a while now.
If it weren't for the time that is likely to pass between Peace Talks and the book after Mirror Mirror, I'd bet that if Tilly is in Peace Talks, it would be at the end. I'm imagining something that would need to be addressed in the next book. On the other hand, if everything explodes in the first few chapters, that sort of situation could develop in Peace Talks. I've been assuming that the peace talks exploding would be centered somewhere around the climax of the book, but it could be the instigating event setting up the "main event" of the novel.
Whether or not red vampires exist, the Red Court is broken, so I don't see them surviving as a species, for now, "saying that in the larger picture nothing can ever really change" because the world is as truly changed by Chichen Itza as it could be by just about anything short of a mass extinction level event.
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Gatekeeper has to be involved, it would seem, as he straddles the world of the Winter Court (working on the Wall) and the White Council.
I'd like to see the other signatories to the accords that we've never seen before. Drakul? The shapeshifting guru? Ferrovax?
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Just because Fix stops being Fix doesn't mean he would stop trusting Harry. The Summer Knight formally known as Fix would still have all the information necessary to trust Harry and maybe use that to try to get the better of Harry. On the other hand, based on the way Fix has behaved towards Harry since Small Favor, it could be argued that the Mantel has been doing all the driving for a while now.
I really disagree with you here. Fix decided to trust Harry and Lily died as a result. I think that is how Fix will see things. It's true that Fix knows more now that he did before, but I think his emotions will overcome his reason. We have the example of how the Winter Knight's mantle can affect the reasoning ability of the mortal carrying it. Do you think the Summer Knight's mantel will be less powerful in how if affects its holder?
Allow me to explain further. The real kicker, the thing that will probably gnaw at Fix is that Harry had both the ability and opportunity to take out Maeve before she killed Lily, and Harry failed to do so. Harry came close, but that will only make it worse in Fix's mind. I think that to Fix, this will be Harry's unforgivable sin, the thing he won't forget or let go of. Actually, I should say it's the thing the Summer Knight's mantel won't allow Fix to let go of. And it will be the mantle that he carries that will push Fix's feelings into overdrive. My prediction is that at some point in the future Harry will be forced to kill Fix in open combat. I don't see why this would happen in Peace Talks, but will happen eventually. Perhaps it will be the event that pushes Harry to look for a way out of being the Winter Knight, but that's a different issue entirely.
If it weren't for the time that is likely to pass between Peace Talks and the book after Mirror Mirror, I'd bet that if Tilly is in Peace Talks, it would be at the end. I'm imagining something that would need to be addressed in the next book. On the other hand, if everything explodes in the first few chapters, that sort of situation could develop in Peace Talks. I've been assuming that the peace talks exploding would be centered somewhere around the climax of the book, but it could be the instigating event setting up the "main event" of the novel.
Your ideas here seem sound to me. However, I could see Tilly making his presence, and his mission, known to Harry and yet still not playing that large of a role in the story's finale. Events could still move too fast for Tilly and whatever forces he controls to react, or they could be involved and holding the line somewhere (bit players essentially), while Harry does the heavy lifting where it really needs to get done. This could be setting up Agent Tilly, and the the mortal authorities in general, playing a more proactive role in the future.
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I really disagree with you here. Fix decided to trust Harry and Lily died as a result.
That's ... way too much of an oversimplification, and I think it's really selling short Fix's ability to follow events that he participated in and which happened right in front of him.
Lily died because she trusted Maeve. Fix knows who was holding the gun, and he knows that Harry was trying to stop Maeve. Fix trusting Harry just plain does not play into the sequence of events that ended with a bullet in Lily's head. If anything, if Fix had trusted Harry sooner, they could've taken out Maeve successfully.
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Cat Sith, because Cat Sith. ;D
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I really want to see Tilly in Peace Talks.
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That's ... way too much of an oversimplification, and I think it's really selling short Fix's ability to follow events that he participated in and which happened right in front of him.
Lily died because she trusted Maeve. Fix knows who was holding the gun, and he knows that Harry was trying to stop Maeve. Fix trusting Harry just plain does not play into the sequence of events that ended with a bullet in Lily's head. If anything, if Fix had trusted Harry sooner, they could've taken out Maeve successfully.
I guess we will have to wait and see how it plays out. My guess is that we won't see either Sarissa or Fix in Peace Talks. It's not like the Fomor will be negotiating with Summer and Winter.
While it's possible that Molly has a role to play in Peace Talks, I think it would be on the outside of talks, not taking a direct role that Summer would have to counter, but conveying information and warnings to Harry about the Fomor and what he can expect from them. I also think it's about time for Charity and Michael to find out about Molly's new job, so that's a reason why I want to see her this book. Otherwise we will have to wait three or four years, if we're lucky, to see that scene occur.
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I guess we will have to wait and see how it plays out. My guess is that we won't see either Sarissa or Fix in Peace Talks. It's not like the Fomor will be negotiating with Summer and Winter.
Considering the talks are about the Accords specifically, I would be very surprised if the Courts didn't show up. Hell, Harry is explicitly there to help coordinate with Winter's folks as a go-between for the White Council.
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I'd like to see a conversation between Molly and the senior council, especially Langtry. Remember, that asshat tried to have Molly executed, then threatened her again in Edinburgh during Changes.
I'd love to see something that'll give Langtry paranoid nightmares for a long time. Something like a conversation that seemingly goes Langtry's way only to discover that he's talking to an illusion that fooled the entire senior council while Molly had been sitting on their flank the entire time. :)
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I'd like to see a conversation between Molly and the senior council, especially Langtry. Remember, that asshat tried to have Molly executed, then threatened her again in Edinburgh during Changes.
I'd love to see something that'll give Langtry paranoid nightmares for a long time. Something like a conversation that seemingly goes Langtry's way only to discover that he's talking to an illusion that fooled the entire senior council while Molly had been sitting on their flank the entire time. :)
I like the way you think.
Considering the talks are about the Accords specifically, I would be very surprised if the Courts didn't show up. Hell, Harry is explicitly there to help coordinate with Winter's folks as a go-between for the White Council.
Is he? Was that in the first chapter preview? I thought Harry was asked by Carlos to help with security and Harry had a conversation with Thomas. I think Molly or Lea, or maybe both will show up in the novel with some general instructions and warnings from Mab, but that's not the same thing as Winter and Summer both playing overt roles in the story.
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I'd like to see Elder Brother Gruff. He's always fun, and we haven't seen him in a while.
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Fun characters we have not seen in a while that make sense to be at Peace Talks
* River Shoulders - per prior comments
* Alphas - not for muscle, but they make great scouts and sentinels
* Fitz - if the winter knight is there, the summer knight will be there, even if he is seriously depressed
* Stallings will be there as I suspect the police will be involved to some extent
* Marcone of course will be there along with his chief minions
* Talos would be an interesting attendee - he was the chief follower of Aurora and probably dead/infected, but maybe not
* Eldest Gruff is always a hoot at a party :)
* Lara Raithe of course as a major participant
* Mara for the same reason
* The hellhound would be a great add - and I expect Ivy would be there as well in her role as arbiter. I am pretty sure there is a Jim statement that says she will be there.
* Several members of the grey council - not sure which. I suspect NOT Ebenezzer as he is their best battle mage and would be kept elsewhere with a strike team in case it is needed. I would like more time with ancient mai myself.
* The Erlking - he normally disdains such things, but he has been getting involved a lot lately (relatively speaking....). And you have to admit that he would have fun once the battle started....
Characters we probably will not see
* Gatekeeper - he has better things to do
* Knights will not be there as that is not their role
* No Fallen either - they have their own issues post Skin Game
* Steed - that warden that controls time would be interesting, but the wardens like to keep him close to the HQ
* Hades - not his role to get involved
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... I also think it's about time for Charity and Michael to find out about Molly's new job, so that's a reason why I want to see her this book ...
That particularly-personal, human-scale drama isn't relevant to a grand high-level-supernatural negotiation (or pre-apocalyptic throwdown).
This makes it a wonderful distraction/side-issue for Harry to have to face, of course... so it's very likely...
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* Talos would be an interesting attendee - he was the chief follower of Aurora and probably dead/infected, but maybe not
I've been wondering about whether or not he's still alive. Summer Knight is unclear about his ultimate fate.
Characters we probably will not see
* Gatekeeper - he has better things to do
* Knights will not be there as that is not their role
* No Fallen either - they have their own issues post Skin Game
* Steed - that warden that controls time would be interesting, but the wardens like to keep him close to the HQ
* Hades - not his role to get involved
Agreed on everyone but the Gatekeeper. I think he's almost certain to be there. I believe the peace talks are too important for him to miss. In fact, I think there's a reasonable chance that the Gatekeeper knows why it's important with regard to future events, and may attempt to interfere to (like he did in Proven Guilty) to tilt events in favor of... reality itself, I presume.
Basically, I think the talks are going to be a major event that will have enormous ramifications on the direction of the DV's world. We're getting close to the apocalypse now; we are, at most, a decade away (in-universe, assuming no significant timeskips of 2-10 years or something) from the end of the Case Files and the start of the BAT. Even if the BAT takes place years after the last case file, unless Jim intends to clear the board of lots of Harry's mortal allies (characters he's spent the entire series developing, like Murphy), I don't think it's going to take place any later than, say, twenty years in the DV's future.
So, I think that the proximity of the Talks to the apocalypse and the fact that it's going to be a gathering of Supernatural Powers the likes of which we've never seen in the series (and may not have happened since the Unseelie Accords were signed) kinda assures that the Gatekeeper will be there, at least for part of it, in my opinion. It's way too important for him to miss, Gatekeeping duties aside.
I think this book is as important as Changes or Grave Peril to the DV, in terms of ramifications.
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unless Jim intends to clear the board of lots of Harry's mortal allies
This made me think of Skin Game where Kringle asked Harry what he had. The answer was friends. Changes was about Harry loosing everything, but he didn't. He kept, excepting Susan, everything that was truly important to him. Either Jim is a lot softer than he pretends to be, or this does not bode well for Harry. (I kinda lean to the first explanation).
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That particularly-personal, human-scale drama isn't relevant to a grand high-level-supernatural negotiation (or pre-apocalyptic throwdown).
This makes it a wonderful distraction/side-issue for Harry to have to face, of course... so it's very likely...
It's all but guaranteed. Harry is in Maggie's life now. She is at the Carpenters. Harry is going to be there. Molly will likely be there too for all the obvious reasons. Micheal likely already knows. It's due to happen.
There are two people all but guaranteed to be there and I can't wait. The Archive, we haven't seen her and Kincaid in a while. She's a young adult now, I need an update. Two, Ferrovax. He is a big player, this is a huge Accords meeting.
Lastly, my wild card is someone from the Jade Court. I believe they are signatories of the accords. If they are ever going to show, this is among the most likely times.
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I think there is an old WOJ about the Jade Court very actively not being involved, and might only appear in the BAT. But who knows, Jim does change things up.
But yeah, definitely the Senior Council and most of the White Council. The Fomor, the Fae, the White Court, Marcone are all pretty much guaranteed. Possibly Mavra and whatever remains of the Black Court. I highly, highly doubt the Denarians considering the last book. And they tend mostly to show up every 5 books so probably not until the very last Case File. Ferrovax is a distinct possibility, considering his presence at Bianca's ascension. Incredibly powerful being shows up at some schmuck Vampire thing? Probably doesn't bode well - and is highly significant. Maybe the other dragon perhaps? I also hope Drakul finally makes his big entrance, but we'll see. I suspect some Monoc Securities presence, plus svartalves etc. Would be fantastic to see any other interesting signatories, such as the semi-divine immortal shapeshifting guru from the Ukraine.
And of course, even if they are not announced as being there - the Black Council/the Circle. They will definitely have a presence there. And will stir things right up. I wonder if we might even see Cowl and Kumori - we are actually due to see them. Whether they will attend the actual talks openly is another matter.
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... But yeah, definitely the Senior Council and most of the White Council. The Fomor, the Fae, the White Court, Marcone are all pretty much guaranteed. Possibly Mavra and whatever remains of the Black Court. I highly, highly doubt the Denarians considering the last book. And they tend mostly to show up every 5 books so probably not until the very last Case File. Ferrovax is a distinct possibility, considering his presence at Bianca's ascension. Incredibly powerful being shows up at some schmuck Vampire thing? Probably doesn't bode well - and is highly significant. Maybe the other dragon perhaps? I also hope Drakul finally makes his big entrance, but we'll see. I suspect some Monoc Securities presence, plus svartalves etc. Would be fantastic to see any other interesting signatories, such as the semi-divine immortal shapeshifting guru from the Ukraine.
I think this book will serve, in a meta sense, to lay the groundwork for the BAT. Some prior Dresdenfile elements will get eliminated (killed, retired, etc). New ones, playing up at the Next Level, will get screen-time.
- The Accorded Baron of Chicago is obviously going to HOST this shindig; of course Marcone will be there!
- The Fomor, because (afaict) they are among the most-active creators of conflict, and there's no real point of "peace talks" if the worst of the aggressors don't participate.
- Mab will be there, because these are her Accords and it looks like it's going to be a Really Big Deal under the Accords.
- Titania will be there, because Summer and Winter move in balance.
- Maybe not the Erlking, because he hates formal-protocol events; but maybe he needs to be there, because he can't afford to have his interests go un-represented... so he's there, but pissed about it.
- I don't see the Svartalven interest; but I'd love to see more of them! Maybe Jim has need of them in the BAT/pre-BAT, and this is the time to bring them into the mainstream of the novels; or maybe Jim just wants more seats at the table, more elements in play when everything blows up.
- Possibly some new Faerie element, a new Court or other power? Because more faeries is just exactly what Harry needs...
- The Denarians, led by Tessa: arguing that only Nicodemus Archleone / Anduriel are in violation of the Accords, and the rest of the Denarians (i.e. "the Denarians" as a group) are still nice little Accordians <sound of kazoo playing waa-waa-waa>.
- I cannot imagine Lara being willing to let an negotiation of this magnitude pass, without having a voice at the table!
- At least half of the Senior Council will be there (possibly a voting majority (to make their agreements binding); possibly the entire Senior Council (because they no longer need the security precaution of not-all-S.Councilors-onstage-at-once)), plus Wardens for security (Luccio dies (heroically) here: she has become less story-important, but it'll still tear Harry up emotionally; and she has become magically much weaker (so vulnerable)).
- Resurgent Blampires, united under Kemmlerian Queen Mavra (again, this will fuck with Harry's head).
- Drakul -- This might be an interesting addition, given his backstory with the Blampires; and we've seen LOTS of interesting speculations as to who/what Drakul really IS... so it's probably time for him/it to come on-screen in the BAT-ramp-up.
- Ferrovax (as you say -- he was there for Bianca's event, and this is more substantive).
- I'm of two minds regarding Ivy -- on the one hand, I want to see more of her, and we haven't yet seen "young adult Ivy." OTOH (from a strategic Oblivion-War perspective) it looks incredibly stupid to risk the Archive at an event where this many high-powered players are attending.
- Cowl will be there, overtly and recognizably, going "Really, Dresden, you cannot attack me here at your own Queen's Accorded Neutral event!" Dunno if we'll actually learn any more about Cowl or about the "Circle." (Yet again, Harry gets freaked-out: so. many. villains.)
- Vadderung, possibly in several roles -- Monoc providing extra security; Odin as... well, Odin; Kringle as part of the Winter Court delegation; maybe others, just for Jim to bemuse Harry?
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This is an accords event, so I assume only beings who have signed the accords will be there, so know knights of the cross, denarians, Erl King (I doubt he signed), or subgroups like the grey council (openly) being there. But there is a lot of room since we don't know who all the signatories are, and if all of them will come, but I anticipate the ones we know are in conflict will be there. In approximate order of likelihood:
• Marcone as the host will be there.
•The Fomor as the primary antagonists will be there.
•Winter will be there as the source of the accords, though whether Mab will be there or whether she will just send a contingent headed by her lady and knight remains to be seen.
•The White Council, since we know from the first chapter they are coming, and that Harry will not be part of their contingent.
•Summer will be there. I anticipate Titania will not being present in person. After all the accords were created and put together without Titania and Mab meeting (since the last time they talked was at Hastings), so I assume she will send elder gruff as her representative.
•Svartalven will be there as after the Bombshells short story they are definitely an interested party.
•Lara and her father, as they are definitely an interested party. She will be pressing for control of North America.
•Vadderung representing Monoc, since they are their own signatories and we know that he's a meddler.
Possible but not certain
•Black Court Mavra
•Drakul
•Ferrovax
•Ivy
None of these have a pressing reason to be there, as they are not really jockeying to fill or retain power positions. As individual powers (or fairly small secret group like the Black Court) they aren't threatened on a personal level by the territorial squabbles so they will only be there if they wish to "meddle" like Odin does. Jade Court falls in here as a possibility only if some power is intruding into their territory
Others/thoughts
•I do not believe Cowl will be there unless he is actually still on the White Council (which I doubt).
•I believe there will be a representative/team from the Greek pantheon. We know Hades is active and potentially meddling, and we know a later book is supposed to involve them as they are active as a group to some degree. It is likely if they are active as a group that they are signatories. I think it likely we will get a light introduction to them here as a set up for the later deeper dive.
We should get introductions to a bunch of other power groups too, since right now we have no idea who the different powers fighting over the former red court territory even are, and all of them should be at this conference.
I do think there is a specific concern about the idea of having Mab, Titania, and beings like Ferrovax at a conference together. We know beings of a certain power level start to warp reality around them in a dangerous way, which is why the mothers essentially never come to earth. Packing a bunch of unique superpowered beings together is dangerous to reality even if they all get along, so it seems to me that a lot of the attendees might be limited to functionaries of the powerful beings and those who represent large organizations of less powerful beings.
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This is an accords event, so I assume only beings who have signed the accords will be there... denarians ... Erl King (I doubt he signed) ...
The Denarians absolutely are (or at least were) signatories. That was the whole point of the plot in Small Favor -- they kidnapped Marcone so Harry would call in Ivy as arbiter under the Accords. It's possible that Nic's actions have violated the Accords sufficient to get kicked out; I presume that if this is so, they'll want to press for such an exile only applying to Nic, with Tessa the "lead signatory" now.
In the scene where Harry and Susan were in the Erlking's throne-room, they seemed to be negotiating under something like Accord-style rules (admittedly, that may have just been similar-ish "faerie" rules, when the Erlking said he needed to blow dust from the old courtesies).
The Erlking explicitly said he didn't want to needlessly antagonize the Red King... and later that the RK wouldn't dare face a united Faerie-realm if he violated the results of the duel; presumably THAT would be an Accorded matter, as the Ramps aren't Fae.
On balance, it looks like Erl is a signatory.
OTOH, on the DF wiki (which afaik is unofficial/noncanonical, (but highly accurate)) I see my supposition confirmed about the Denarians (but not Nic) still being signatory; but it lists "Both Faerie Courts" and the "Svartalves"... but not Erlking or the Goblins...
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OTOH, on the DF wiki (which afaik is unofficial/noncanonical, (but highly accurate)) I see my supposition confirmed about the Denarians (but not Nic) still being signatory; but it lists "Both Faerie Courts" and the "Svartalves"... but not Erlking or the Goblins...
Nick specifically says he is no longer a member of the accords in Skin Game, and it is strongly implied its because of him breaking it to capture the Archive. While I suppose from the text it is possible Nick is no longer a member but the rest of the Denarians are, I think that is unlikely considering literally every free Denarian was involved in the attack on her.
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If I recall correctly, the Denarians weren't a member of the Accords as the Denarians. Harry says "I'd have to look it up. ... I doubt they're signed on as the 'Order of Demon-possessed Psychotics.'" - Small Favor, Chapter 14.
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They were Signatories. Nicodemus mentions that he/the Denarians aren't any longer in Skin Game when Harry mentions that he's a member of the Accords twice (as a White Council member and the Winter Knight). I think Small Favor ended his membership.
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What makes you say Carlos is organizing the talks? Do we even know who is hosting them?
Pretty sure there is WOJ that Carlos is running Security. That implies WC is the host; but maybe he's just running the WC's own security-detail to the shindig...?
I'm seeing the Baron of Chicago as the natural "host" of the event; I presume he'd primarily use Monoc forces, but might get some WC/Warden security, too (and maybe other parties... Kenku, anyone? Svartalves?). I mean, if Ferrovax showed up and decided to flex his power, I doubt all those together would even slow him down... But some of the other attendees would give even Mr.F pause.
Signing the Accords is a claim that you have enough power to play in those leagues, and the site "security" isn't meant to control the attendees, just to keep lesser annoyances & distractions to a minimum.
Maybe Lara Raith as co-host? Being the Power Behind the Throne is all well and good, and Whamp-catspaw-ish... But it's also a terrible weakness, because unmasking her as PBtT would be a politically-fatal move. So she could make this event her Official Debut, eliminating the weakness with a side-order for other Houses of "and you were all too stupid to see it." Add Whamp-resources to the security-forces!
With a bunch of different parties, there'll have to be an overall Boss of security... Maybe THAT'S Carlos??? But he seems awfully junior for THAT role... So, I dunno.
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I think there's a WOJ that Ivy will show up as a mediator. So if she's there, then so's Kincaid.
I think Carlos is security for the WC representatives and we'll probably get a few Senior Council members. I bet Eb is gonna be one of them since it's been three books since we've seen him. I doubt the Merlin is gonna want to miss this, hence the beefed up security.
I bet Lara and her dad are gonna be there, since I don't think the latter can't afford to not show up. There's too much of an 'I know that you know' kind of deal with Lara being the power behind the throne that they'd need to keep up appearances with such a formal event.
The Formor for sure.
Hm, if the Queens themselves don't show up, and I kinda doubt it when they've got Ladies and Knights to do that. Plus, we have seen a lot of Mab lately, so she might not be in this one too much. But yeah we'll see both the Ladies, so Fix'll be there as well.
Denarians are right out.
Hm, I don't think we'll see Mavra. Oh, she might be a behind the scenes person, but I think her big reprise is gonna be in Mirror Mirror.
Cowl for sure and I think Kumori is still alive, so her too.
Hm, I'm not too sure if there is going to be an overall head of security. I feel like it might be more of each security person has to work together and Ivy is going to make sure they play nice as well.
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It's the White Councils turn at bat. The question in my mind is what is the current state of relations in the White Council? They were close to civil war in Changes. The Reds are gone and the Whites were out of it. The Fomor were shadows. Who's suing for peace?