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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: I_hate_lotr on September 30, 2021, 03:46:55 AM
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Starting to think it's in effect already. Everyone who is close to him has gotten hurt or killed. Michael is seriously injured. Molly became the winter lady. Murphy has died. Thomas is locked up. Every single person has been hurt or killed or pushed away since that curse has been laid on him.
Which leads to this scary thought, what happens if Maggie is hurt or killed?
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I mean on the one hand we have a WoJ saying that Harry mostly got out from under that the first time he died, on the other hand iirc we have a different WoJ saying he's still suffering because of the effects of the curse.
Personally I think that if Snake boy didn't have the Juice to kill Dresden in the Museum, it makes little sense that he'd have enough juice to Ice everyone Harry gets close to years later, but who can say.
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However it wasn't much of a curse. As Malcolm pointed out to Harry in his dream," everyone dies alone." Also both Molly and Michael are very much alive, so is Thomas last we checked.
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Maggie and Bonnie are both still alive. Still uncertain if the curse attached itself to Harry's penis. Susan and Murphy are both dead. Luccio and Elaine still seem to be alive. Lara is an unknown quantity for now.
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Maggie and Bonnie are both still alive. Still uncertain if the curse attached itself to Harry's penis. Susan and Murphy are both dead. Luccio and Elaine still seem to be alive. Lara is an unknown quantity for now.
And there are a whole lot of other people in Harry's circle. I have to run down the exact quote, I think it is in Dead Beat. It is when Harry dreams or has a vision of meeting up with his Dad by a camp fire. That's when Malcolm told him not to be overly alarmed by that curse, because everyone walks though death's door alone.
Here is the quote I was looking for from Dead Beat page 420 paper back version
"Harry." my dad said, and his voice was very gentle, "can I tell you something?"
"Sure."
He walked around the grave and put his hand on my shoulder.
"Son. Everyone does alone. That's what it is. It's a door. It's one
person wide. When you go through it, you do it alone." His fingers
squeezed me tight. "But it doesn't mean you've got to be alone before you go
through the door. And believe me, you aren't alone on the other side."
So what I think Malcolm was trying to tell Harry, as long as he has friends, he won't be alone as he walks through life. That is true unless Harry succeeds in alienating everyone he knows. And when he does walk through that door alone, there are a lot of loved ones waiting for him on the other side.
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You forget Harry
has plot armour is a Starborn and appears to shrug off all forms of predestination - entropy curses, death curses, prophecy all have tried and failed. He is the ultimate champion of free will which means he is the White God’s chosen pain in the ass.
It’s telling that the Gatekeeper has trouble telling futures for Harry, the scene where he defies the White Council on Demonreach leaves the Gatekeeper confused that it’s too early in his timeline, and that he can’t win until Harry does something so incredibly stupid which is the epitome of free will in deciding to bind Demonreach.
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You forget Harry has plot armour is a Starborn and appears to shrug off all forms of predestination - entropy curses, death curses, prophecy all have tried and failed. He is the ultimate champion of free will which means he is the White God’s chosen pain in the ass.
It’s telling that the Gatekeeper has trouble telling futures for Harry, the scene where he defies the White Council on Demonreach leaves the Gatekeeper confused that it’s too early in his timeline, and that he can’t win until Harry does something so incredibly stupid which is the epitome of free will in deciding to bind Demonreach.
A couple of things, being star born or not, predestined or not, what Harry's father told him still holds true. If we die, any of us, we pass through that door alone.
Rashid had no problem seeing his future in Turn Coat, he gave him the odds of surviving against the Senior Council as low off the island, and a lot higher on the island and especially when he realized what Harry did. I think there are rules that go along with having the eye that Rashid has. I think it is the eye of the Three Fates, and rule number one is you cannot go around telling anyone what their future is going to be, because there are consequences for doing that, serious ones.
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Starting to think it's in effect already. Everyone who is close to him has gotten hurt or killed. Michael is seriously injured. Molly became the winter lady. Murphy has died. Thomas is locked up. Every single person has been hurt or killed or pushed away since that curse has been laid on him.
Which leads to this scary thought, what happens if Maggie is hurt or killed?
He thought Elaine was dead. His mother was killed, possibly his father, if you listen to Chauncey. Susan got infected by the Reds. Being Harry's buddy has always been an extremely hazardous hobby.
Here's one, though - could the curse HELP Harry? Picture Harry and Maggie walking down a street in Chicago, they just went to Navy Pier or something. Some guy sees someone he hates walk by, decides to shoot him (it IS Chicago), whips out a gun and misses. Bullet goes downrange, hits Innocent Bystander Harry in the head. But Maggie is with him. Maybe Mouse (Mouse is not an ordinary dog). Does he survive? Does it make the bullet miss? Does he lie comatose, or in agony like the guy that got shot in front of Kumori that she cast on?
He was alone on the boat when Kincaid shot him, and I think the likes 0f Ethniu blow away the curse. Maybe even massive physical damage overpowers the curse - hit by bullet, linger. Hit by tank main gun, yeah, magic overruled.
But could the curse help? Maybe it would help him survive. Preschism, maybe his friends could sit with him until Injun Joe came to start his healing. Now, they may pull Maggie away at the hospital and he dies on the table.
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Again, is it a real curse? We know what Malcolm told him... When he was mostly dead, he fell from the boat into Mab's waiting arms.. Yeah, he heard in his mind Cassius's death curse, but he was only mostly dead, Mab was there so even if he was all dead, he didn't die alone. If it means that all his friends and family die first, well, if Harry is the military leader of the BAT, that stuff happens...
One more thought, was Cassius even a wizard? I think not, so there was no juice behind his curse other than to make Harry feel bad.
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Again, is it a real curse? We know what Malcolm told him... When he was mostly dead, he fell from the boat into Mab's waiting arms.. Yeah, he heard in his mind Cassius's death curse, but he was only mostly dead, Mab was there so even if he was all dead, he didn't die alone. If it means that all his friends and family die first, well, if Harry is the military leader of the BAT, that stuff happens...
One more thought, was Cassius even a wizard? I think not, so there was no juice behind his curse other than to make Harry feel bad.
I think Cassius was a wizard, but a minor one. Harry is gaining in strength all the time, even if it is still there it may get shed in time. The same way Cowl was contemptuous of Harry's death curse, and Kumori told Harry he has shaken off worse.
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I think Cassius was a wizard, but a minor one. Harry is gaining in strength all the time, even if it is still there it may get shed in time. The same way Cowl was contemptuous of Harry's death curse, and Kumori told Harry he has shaken off worse.
I don't think so, think Namshiel was the only one. Since Cowl never killed Harry, he never actually received it, easy to laugh off a threat. But Harry was a lot younger then, he has gained in more ways that one, including deciding on the kind of death curse he'd throw and take into consideration who is killing him. Not unlike his mother, she didn't just throw a death curse for the sake of it, she considered who would kill her and how best to get to him... And she succeeded.. I don't think Cowl would blow off a death curse from Harry now.
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I don't think so, think Namshiel was the only one. Since Cowl never killed Harry, he never actually received it, easy to laugh off a threat. But Harry was a lot younger then, he has gained in more ways that one, including deciding on the kind of death curse he'd throw and take into consideration who is killing him. Not unlike his mother, she didn't just throw a death curse for the sake of it, she considered who would kill her and how best to get to him... And she succeeded.. I don't think Cowl would blow off a death curse from Harry now.
Cassius is the host. Saluriel is the Denarian (the usual -el ending). Even without the coin Harry sees energy around him as he releases the curse. I think Cassius may have been a minor practitioner pre-coin. And I think ALL the Denarians have some ability, if not as much as Namshiel. Remember Ascher seemed AWFULLY good - I think Harry said Senior Council level, and she only had Lasciel.
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Cassius is the host. Saluriel is the Denarian (the usual -el ending). Even without the coin Harry sees energy around him as he releases the curse. I think Cassius may have been a minor practitioner pre-coin. And I think ALL the Denarians have some ability, if not as much as Namshiel. Remember Ascher seemed AWFULLY good - I think Harry said Senior Council level, and she only had Lasciel.
Ascher was better than Harry with fire, but only with fire. She wasn't senior council level, not a wide enough pool of talent.
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I always saw Cassius as pretty much at the bottom of the White Council of his time, a Wizard who just only qualified for training and served a long, long, long apprenticeship. Such things make a man bitter and open to suggestion from someone who can offer a power up.
It is notable that Nick in seeking Harry sought out a powerhouse who served a short apprenticeship, He was clearly fed up with Cassius and wasn’t going to repeat that mistake. Instead he made a much worse mistake.
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Talent maybe at the OP level, but they'd never make wizard, sure they got some juice from the coin, but the only real magical bad ass in the bunch was Namshiel. Ascher could have been a wizard but she went warlock instead due to making some bad choices early on. Thus like Molly she was on the run depending on her half turned friends, when Harry did in the Red Court, most of them died because the mortal halves of them were very old. That made her bitter, take up the coin, and Lasciel powered up her fire magic more than it was.
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Nick needed Hannah Ascher for a specific job, and he needed Lasciel to take out Harry.
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Nick needed Hannah Ascher for a specific job, and he needed Lasciel to take out Harry.
I think Lasciel wanted to take out Harry and Hannah with her grudge against Harry was the perfect fit..
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Yes, to an extent Nick is manipulating the more powerful Denarians to keep them in line, giving them what they want, or keeping them on ice or marrying them. They are not a homogeneous body.
Thorned working with Marcone is a case in point, I suspect Nick gave Thorned weak hosts, and kept him on ice and isolated when he didn’t need him for the big stuff. His time with Marcone where he has been out of the box and had a strong host who cooperates with him like Nick and Anduriel, May be the best time he has had in 2,000 years.
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Yes, to an extent Nick is manipulating the more powerful Denarians to keep them in line, giving them what they want, or keeping them on ice or marrying them. They are not a homogeneous body.
Thorned working with Marcone is a case in point, I suspect Nick gave Thorned weak hosts, and kept him on ice and isolated when he didn’t need him for the big stuff. His time with Marcone where he has been out of the box and had a strong host who cooperates with him like Nick and Anduriel, May be the best time he has had in 2,000 years.
I agree, then again, Marcone is also strong, if their agendas don't mesh, he is strong enough to resist Namshiel.
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Namshiel obviously thinks that Marcone could drop his coin just like that.
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Namshiel obviously thinks that Marcone could drop his coin just like that.
I'd agree, but Marcone also knows he doesn't have that much magical talent without Namshiel, it is a match made in Hell you might say...
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Cassius' death curse is in effect, but also ineffective. As Malcolm pointed out, Death is a Door one person wide. Cassius might as well as cursed Harry to live for all the good/harm it would do.
As to Marcone, I believe he has the strength of will to drop the coin in an instant, if he believes the benefits no longer outweigh the costs.
However, I wonder if he could still do magic if he dropped the coin. My suspicion is that, yes he could. I don't really think that the coins allow you do to things that you couldn't do yourself -- if you had the knowledge, training, etc. The coins are massive short-cuts to power, not the power itself.
Take the shapeshifting. Sure, Ursiel and Magog's hosts can turn into very impressive battle forms of grape apes and giant demon bears. BUT, we know that the Alphas can do something very similar, on a smaller scale. Perhaps the Alphas could turn into giant demon bears if they worked on that. We know they are trying to see if they can use their shapeshifting to do other things -- like rapid healing.
Perhaps Marcone had the tiniest bit of magical talents. Another person with that same amount of talent has neither the need, inclination, knowledge or will to develop that talent. And so, even with a bit of dabbling, that person is going to die before bringing themselves up to an ordinary wizard level, let alone to the Senior Council level of ability. Marcone get's a shortcut. What would have taken him hundreds and hundreds of years has taken him a decade.
But, kind of like when you take a short cut in real life, if you've made it to your destination, there you are. Maybe he couldn't do hellfire if he dropped the coin, but I think he could do anything else he learned how to do with Namshiel's assistance for himself.
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Take the shapeshifting. Sure, Ursiel and Magog's hosts can turn into very impressive battle forms of grape apes and giant demon bears. BUT, we know that the Alphas can do something very similar, on a smaller scale. Perhaps the Alphas could turn into giant demon bears if they worked on that. We know they are trying to see if they can use their shapeshifting to do other things -- like rapid healing.
I don't think so, the Alphas didn't need the coin to turn, and so far none of them have even tried to be other than what they are, werewolves. As far as Marcone goes, at the end of the day, a wizard needs talent to power his spells. The more talent, the more power, Thomas did say that everyone has some talent, but that doesn't make everyone potential wizards. I think if Marcone had that kind of talent he would have used it to his advantage long before he picked up a coin. If he dropped the coin he may still have the knowledge, but he'd lack the power to do any of the spells.
Or a better example, when the Shadow of Lachiel was in Harry's head, he could understand many languages, read them, even speak them, after Lash sacrificed herself, he cannot do that, nor can he create Hell Fire anymore, though he can create fire.. That is the temptation of the coin, if you could do these things without the coin, why would you be tempted to pick it up?
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I don't think so, the Alphas didn't need the coin to turn, and so far none of them have even tried to be other than what they are, werewolves. As far as Marcone goes, at the end of the day, a wizard needs talent to power his spells. The more talent, the more power, Thomas did say that everyone has some talent, but that doesn't make everyone potential wizards. I think if Marcone had that kind of talent he would have used it to his advantage long before he picked up a coin. If he dropped the coin he may still have the knowledge, but he'd lack the power to do any of the spells.
Or a better example, when the Shadow of Lachiel was in Harry's head, he could understand many languages, read them, even speak them, after Lash sacrificed herself, he cannot do that, nor can he create Hell Fire anymore, though he can create fire.. That is the temptation of the coin, if you could do these things without the coin, why would you be tempted to pick it up?
My point is that the Alphas are proof that you don't need a coin. I think that Alphas could turn into giant demon bears or grape apes -- just like Listens to Wind -- if they worked on it. The Alphas are working on other stuff, just not grape apes, according to them. Frankly, why would they? wolves are almost ideal predators if you have a pack. Grey proved to me that giant demon bears are not that practical.
Harry could learn to speak all sorts of languages too -- if he worked on it -- I can't be bothered to learn Spanish, not because of an lack of use for it, but because I'm too lazy. But, I'd take a Matrix download of Spanish in a heartbeat.
In short, the temptation of the Coin is NOT the skills or the power per se, it's that they get to skip the hardship of EARNING those skills. Hellfire might be the one exception. You might not be able to channel Hellfire without that demonic bargain, whether express or implicit.
In short, Marcone could become a Senior Council level wizard -- but he doesn't have the six hundred years of life and hard work it would take. A Coin is a great short cut, so he gives into the temptation. His further temptation is that if he could do X in a decade, what could he do with infinity? I'm sure Namshiel TELLS him that if he ever gave the coin up, he couldn't do X anymore. If Marcone believes him, then he won't be able to do X. But, personally, I think it's a lie. Once you learn to tie your shoes, magically speaking, you can.
This actually ties into Alera a bit too, potentially rising to the level of a "theme" of Jim Butcher (a weight lifter and martial artist, I might add). In the early books, the injustice we feel on behalf of Tavi is NOT that the Aquitaines have nearly god-like power, it is the injustice that it seems to come so easily to them because of their blood while Tavi, who wants it very bad, works very hard and is admirable in almost every respect is denied that same power.
In fact, we are not really shown any powerful crafter working on being a powerful crafter -- not even the students in Academ's Fury. I would suggest that this was intentional on Butcher's part, to keep our sense of injustice well stoked. In fact, Academ's Fury raised my sense of injustice because it just seemed as if the crafting rich got richer.
After we have Tavi's training montage where Alera herself trains him (though much failure and hypothermia), we learn that even Invidia went through a lot of hardship and training as her father (whoever he was) sent her to learn from numerous master crafters and artisans to refine her skill over the course of years.
Then, as Alera's final act, she agrees to implement Tavi's merit based crafting program where humans will be limited only by their own expectations, desire and hardwork. Injustice solved for all time.
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My point is that the Alphas are proof that you don't need a coin. I think that Alphas could turn into giant demon bears or grape apes -- just like Listens to Wind -- if they worked on it. The Alphas are working on other stuff, just not grape apes, according to them. Frankly, why would they? wolves are almost ideal predators if you have a pack. Grey proved to me that giant demon bears are not that practical.
Yes, but not everyone can become an Alpha, there is some other stuff going on as well. If you don't have that pre-existing talent, without a coin, I don't think it is going to happen. I think the bigger question is why do you think you need to turn into anything with the power and strength that comes with it? That is the temptation, Nic is very careful to match potential hosts with their coins, he had good reasons to match Lasciel with Harry.
Harry could learn to speak all sorts of languages too -- if he worked on it -- I can't be bothered to learn Spanish, not because of an lack of use for it, but because I'm too lazy. But, I'd take a Matrix download of Spanish in a heartbeat.
Yes, if he worked at it, but then again how many people teach conversational Etruscan these days? Yes, with Lasciel's help Harry could and was able to understand the Ghouls.
In short, the temptation of the Coin is NOT the skills or the power per se, it's that they get to skip the hardship of EARNING those skills. Hellfire might be the one exception. You might not be able to channel Hellfire without that demonic bargain, whether express or implicit.
No, reread the conversations between Lasciel and Harry, even after he mastered Hell Fire etc., she was tempting him with more power.. It isn't about earning those skills, Harry already had a pretty good fire spell, he had learned and earned it, Hell Fire really wasn't a short cut for him at all.
In short, Marcone could become a Senior Council level wizard -- but he doesn't have the six hundred years of life and hard work it would take. A Coin is a great short cut, so he gives into the temptation. His further temptation is that if he could do X in a decade, what could he do with infinity? I'm sure Namshiel TELLS him that if he ever gave the coin up, he couldn't do X anymore. If Marcone believes him, then he won't be able to do X. But, personally, I think it's a lie. Once you learn to tie your shoes, magically speaking, you can.
No, you pretty much lose whatever skill you got with the bargain. Look as Cassius, first things first, when he gave up his coin, he started to age rather rapidly to whatever his real age was.
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Marcone is not noted as having a major magical gift, and I don’t think a Denarian can make a gift larger, but they can focus it. The Shapeshifting is part of the Denarian power set, it is part of their powers but require a human to access it.
Marcone shouldn’t have been able to undertake the magic that he did, he simply couldn’t supply the level of power and no matter the level of focus he couldn’t make up for that. Somehow Marcone and Namshiel have figured a cheat, Marcone has perhaps taken another practitioners magic as the Nightmare did to Harry, or several practitioners building it up bit by bit.
Perhaps Marcone purchased it, a free will transaction acceptable to Namshiels free will limitations, Namshiel would know which talents were useful and could be fit together to make a more powerful whole he could train up. That would be very Marcone, buying his way to more power and would certainly appeal to a magic nerd like Namshiel, as it may be a novel solution to his reliance upon Nick providing suitably qualified hosts
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Marcone is not noted as having a major magical gift, and I don’t think a Denarian can make a gift larger, but they can focus it. The Shapeshifting is part of the Denarian power set, it is part of their powers but require a human to access it.
Marcone shouldn’t have been able to undertake the magic that he did, he simply couldn’t supply the level of power and no matter the level of focus he couldn’t make up for that. Somehow Marcone and Namshiel have figured a cheat, Marcone has perhaps taken another practitioners magic as the Nightmare did to Harry, or several practitioners building it up bit by bit.
Perhaps Marcone purchased it, a free will transaction acceptable to Namshiels free will limitations, Namshiel would know which talents were useful and could be fit together to make a more powerful whole he could train up. That would be very Marcone, buying his way to more power and would certainly appeal to a magic nerd like Namshiel, as it may be a novel solution to his reliance upon Nick providing suitably qualified hosts
I agree, I also think this is something Marcone worked up to over the last few years. If Namshiel's Shadow was in his head, much like Lasciel's Shadow was in Harry's head, he could have been taken step by step as to how to get the most mileage once he actually accepted the coin. Face it, Marcone has been lusting for that kind of power ever since Harry blasted the doors off his club back in Storm Front.
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I suppose I need to try to be a bit clearer. I'm not saying that the Fallen don't have real power, they do. But, primarily what they offer to any of their hosts -- even Magog -- is knowledge. Cheat codes for existence, for the small price of your soul.
The Fallen are consummate liars as well. The exaggerate and misrepresent what they actually do. The purpose of these lies seem to get their hooks into you more and more, until you submit to being an actual agent of Hell.
Let's say that the Fallen teach you to shape shift into a Grape Ape. Grape Apes are awesome and lots of fun -- you get to throw barrels at little Italian plumbers and stuff all day. But, the Fallen says -- if you toss my coin, you'll never be Kong again. You believe the Fallen, because you couldn't do that before the Fallen. Now you use or toss the Coin and because of your mistaken beliefs you can't go Kong anymore because you don't believe that you can. Dumbo's magic feather. You might know how to do it still -- in fact, I think you do -- but you don't believe that you can do it, and belief is all important to doing magic.
Harry actually talks about this concept all the time, but he rarely thinks about its wider application. His duel with Hannah Lasher is an exception. He contemplated that Hannah believed that she was more powerful because of Lasciel, but really it was because Lasciel riled up her rage. Hannah could have learned to do even more potent fire magic on her own. Harry exposes the "cheat code" approach for what it really is, because while Hannah's attack was more potent that Harry's defenses, Hannah didn't have the depth of experience and broader skill that comes with hard work. And so, Harry essentially tricks Hannah into killing herself.
Yes, but not everyone can become an Alpha, there is some other stuff going on as well. If you don't have that pre-existing talent, without a coin, I don't think it is going to happen. I think the bigger question is why do you think you need to turn into anything with the power and strength that comes with it? That is the temptation, Nic is very careful to match potential hosts with their coins, he had good reasons to match Lasciel with Harry.
Are we sure that not everyone can become an Alpha? Because the odds of a half-dozen or so friends at one particular college in Chicago learning to become werewolves at exactly the same time is pretty unlikely -- unless, literally anyone can do it if they have a teacher.
Further, while Nic is "picky" about his flunkies, Tessa is notably the opposite. She'll give a coin to whoever, seeing the people as disposable.
Yes, if he worked at it, but then again how many people teach conversational Etruscan these days? Yes, with Lasciel's help Harry could and was able to understand the Ghouls.
Yes, precisely. And, keep in mind Lash didn't actually TEACH Etruscan or Ghoul, she just translated UN style for him. Now that she's gone, so is his translator. She could have taught Harry Etruscan, but it probably would have taken a few weeks or months. If she had, Harry would still know how to speak Etruscan.
I think that if you review their time together, Lash constantly OFFERS to teach Harry things, if he only formally takes up the Coin. But, she actually teaches him very little.
She did teach him a pain suppression technique, which he has used since Lash departed. She rarely gives away knowledge, as its her only lever.
No, you pretty much lose whatever skill you got with the bargain. Look as Cassius, first things first, when he gave up his coin, he started to age rather rapidly to whatever his real age was.
Is that what really happened? Or is that just what Cassius believed happened? After having been told for two-thousand years that he would age and swiftly die if he lost his Coin, did he come to believe and then his belief made it real?
He didn't loose all of his Coin-acquired skills either as he could still do magic and produced a death curse at the end.
One more metaphor to suggest somewhat of a compromise or synthesis of our theories:
Let's say I've been cast in a new movie -- the 600 Hundred -- which will be like 300 but with twice as many people. I'm a big guy, but sadly a bit doughy around the middle now that I'm closing in on 50. I could get back into shape, but it might take three or four years. Besides, I don't myself have the knowledge about fitness and diet, etc. to turn myself into a Hollywood Spartan and just figuring all of that out could take me years all on its own. Thankfully, the studio has that knowledge -- personal trainers, chefs and ... ahem ... pharmacologists eager and willing to help. In six months time, they whip me into shape so that I don't look out of place next to Leonidas or Creepy Persian Man. Now, replace those professionals with Fallen Angels telling me exactly what to eat, how much and when and knowing exactly what exercises, weights, reps and times will give maximum results. Now, instead of being movie buff, I'm super human essentially and the star of the movie now.
After the movie is over, the trainers, chefs and drug dealers have all left (or alternatively the Fallen Angel). I can't keep up that level of fitness anymore. But, I've learned a ton and with some effort I can keep it up at least to a degree. Maybe I can't be as fit as I was with those true professionals guiding me each step of the way, but I'm a great deal more fit than I was before they came and left.
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After the movie is over, the trainers, chefs and drug dealers have all left (or alternatively the Fallen Angel). I can't keep up that level of fitness anymore. But, I've learned a ton and with some effort I can keep it up at least to a degree. Maybe I can't be as fit as I was with those true professionals guiding me each step of the way, but I'm a great deal more fit than I was before they came and left.
It doesn't work that way, I think the text is pretty clear on that. Say you are thirty when you take up the coin, you physically stay thirty as long as you host the coin. Give up the coin say when you are ninety, your body reverts to a ninety year old body. It doesn't happen all at once, as in instantly but over several months your body will eventually become what ever age it is supposed to be. That is what was happening to Cassius, no amount of exercise and diet is going to stop it. Perhaps for a while, but a ninety year old body has it's limitations.
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To be clear, we have exactly one instance of the "Cassius Effect." We don't have any other person who has lost a coin in such circumstances.
I believe, we only have two authentic coin droppers and two pseudo-coin droppers.
Cassius -- uniquely gave up a coin while he was cornered to save his life after two-thousand years or so
Sanya -- gave up Magog's coin willingly. Of course, either way he wouldn't suffer from the Cassius Effect since he only had the coin only a few years.
Nicodemus -- gave up the Coin strategically, knowing it would be temporary.
Harry -- never took up the coin, technically.
I'm 100% certain that Saluriel told Cassius that if he gave up the coin or lost it or had it taken from him, whatever technique or ability allowed Cassius's life to be preserved would be lost. I'm 100% certain that Cassius believed as well. I'm not at all certain that Cassius' belief itself didn't cause the "Cassius Effect."
While we only have one true instance of the Cassius Effect in the Series we have MANY instances of an individual's iron-held belief -- sometimes mistaken -- allowing them to do something they shouldn't be ordinarily able to do; or, keeping them from doing something that they ought to do. I could even include several of Michael's Sword-less miracles on this list.
This has happened to Harry several times -- where his own subconscious mind (not black-clad Id Harry) turns against him and he's unable to do "ordinary" things like light candles.
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To be clear, we have exactly one instance of the "Cassius Effect." We don't have any other person who has lost a coin in such circumstances.
I don't think it is theory, I don't have time right now to find the exact quote, but the text is clear, that is what happens once the coin is given up. That is one of the things that upset Cassius so. So while we don't perhaps have other examples I remember reading in Dead Beat that that was one of the effects when a coin is surrendered.
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Certainly Cassius thought he could cast a death curse and Harry felt it hit. So no magic feather there.
there was a flare of ugly energies, a flash of unholy purplish light around him, and he spoke words that rang in echoes totally out of proportion to their volume.
"DIE ALONE," he spat.
A flood of power hit me and my vision went black.
The last thing I heard was the snapping of bone.
It's certainly open to discussion on what it means. For me personally I take it as meaning that at the moments before his death that he will be alone fighting in some last ditch battle. But I am a romantic.
In terms of Cassius aging, his apparent age changed enough so that Harry did recognize him as who he was. So was it a magic feather??????
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Certainly Cassius thought he could cast a death curse and Harry felt it hit. So no magic feather there.It's certainly open to discussion on what it means. For me personally I take it as meaning that at the moments before his death that he will be alone fighting in some last ditch battle. But I am a romantic.
In terms of Cassius aging, his apparent age changed enough so that Harry did recognize him as who he was. So was it a magic feather??????
But didn't Harry also note how old he looked? Cassius's may have aged, but he was still Cassius, it wouldn't have been hard to know who he was.. No, no magic feather for this Dumbo.
Well, considering Cassius himself was dying alone, and as bitter and pissed as he was because he felt it was unfair that he couldn't get another coin, he wanted that for Harry as well.. And if you consider at the end of Changes, yes, Harry heard his voice echoing in his head, but the truth of the matter was, Harry was only "mostly dead," he fell into Mab's arms, heard her murmur "hush," was dragged to Demonreach on life support and had his soul walk about. 1] He didn't die. 2] He wasn't alone.. Maybe a wizard would feel any curse thrown by someone dying, magical talent or not.. However unless it is a magical practitioner of some sort, there is very little sting in it.
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To be clear, we have exactly one instance of the "Cassius Effect."
Sort of. The half-rampires of the Fellowship of St Giles also had the rapid aging once their supernatural sponsor left the picture.
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Take the shapeshifting. Sure, Ursiel and Magog's hosts can turn into very impressive battle forms of grape apes and giant demon bears. BUT, we know that the Alphas can do something very similar, on a smaller scale. Perhaps the Alphas could turn into giant demon bears if they worked on that.
MAJOR difference - change in mass. Harry was quite impressed when Goodman Grey changed his mass, summoning it like Binder summoning his puppets. The Alphas do not gate in ectoplasm. They likely maintain the same - a large wolf is nearly the weight of a man, and some examples of the larger breeds of dogs weigh more than most men - heck, MOUSE does.
Perhaps Marcone had the tiniest bit of magical talents. Another person with that same amount of talent has neither the need, inclination, knowledge or will to develop that talent. And so, even with a bit of dabbling, that person is going to die before bringing themselves up to an ordinary wizard level, let alone to the Senior Council level of ability. Marcone get's a shortcut. What would have taken him hundreds and hundreds of years has taken him a decade.
What says he could EVER get there? Every little kid who wants to be a major league baseball player - he can work at it, and work at it... but unless you were born with exemplary reflexes, you will never be able to hit a big league fastball. You can hone what you have - but you have a ceiling. He might hit maximum potential - like the Paranetters Harry said will NEVER be White Council level.
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I think Lasciel wanted to take out Harry and Hannah with her grudge against Harry was the perfect fit..
Hell hath no fury like a woman Fallen Angel scorned... and Harry scorned Lasciel.
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Maybe a wizard would feel any curse thrown by someone dying, magical talent or not.. However unless it is a magical practitioner of some sort, there is very little sting in it.
or if you do not have enough power, it just does nothing. You feel it, but it is pretty ineffectual. Like if I gave you a protective vest. Level IV. AR500 strike plates. I then pull out a 9mm pistol and shoot you right in the chest. You are going to feel an impact. But that bullet probably hardly even marked the protective plate. No harm to you at all.