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Messages - sjksprocket

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16
DFRPG / Re: Yes, A Free Tag Can Invoke For Effect
« on: February 07, 2011, 10:02:55 PM »
That will just encourage players to place aspects on each other and avoid ever doing it on enemies.  Same net effect, pretty much, but they don't have to give the enemy a Fate point.  Remember that to tag you have to use an action to place the Aspect (typically), and that's not a trivial sacrifice.

For me I look at it from the series point of view. During the escalation to the final confrontation Harry is constantly being beat on (and starts gain fate points from the all the consequences and compels he's getting) and then goes uber and wins (dumping a lot of the faint points he just gained to win). The gaining a fate point even if tagged, for me anyways, is more in sync with that. Plus it would depend on the group. I don't believe my group would abuse it like you think.

Which is for all intents and purpose a tag being used for a Compel (GM taking or supplying a Fate Point to the target as needed).

Yes and No. It is partially semantics, like you say, but it would limit things to a certain degree too. A compel coming straight from the PC could have a much wider ranges of effects, or be much harsher. The compel from the GM would IMO be in a narrower frame of things seeing as the GM would only do the compel if they see it as appropriate and apply a potentially more subtle effect. Plus, as I see it, it also effects if the effected party will get the fate point. If your going with "no fate paint spent, none gained" then the effected party would not get the point from the Invoke for effect, but since the GM initiated the compel the target would get one from the compel.

I mean no offense, and correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that you're coming from the perspective that this is a big loophole and could be exploited. I see it as what would be a better story, and what would everyone enjoy better. If that means that A tag could be essentially be used as a compel, I'd go with it. But I still retain all my rights to say to a player "Okay, now your abusing it."

17
DFRPG / Re: Yes, A Free Tag Can Invoke For Effect
« on: February 07, 2011, 09:23:46 PM »
I think for my campaign I'm going to give the fate point to whomever it goes, even if it is from a tag. It just seems more fair that way to me. I just want to point out that one thing no one has mentioned that everyone might want to consider. Which ever you choose it should work both ways. If a player can do it to a npc, said npc (especially if said npc is important) should be able to do it to said player. If a player tags an aspect for effect or compel or whatever, and your group is going with the "no fate point spent, none gained" concept, and the npc doesn't get a fate point, then make sure the group knows that if GM does the same thing to a player the player will get no fate point out of it. Talk it out with your group. Maybe your group won't like the fact they might not get fate points out of something. I believe that the more fate points floating around, the more interesting the story can get because fate points equal narrative control.

Explain how that is different.  What does the first part mean?

I don't accept what the book says on this, because it is pretty clear based on what Fred said that the book doesn't properly cover this.

Page 106 says Invocations can be used for Effect, but a Compel, as written, is NOT an Invocation technically speaking, so it isn't going to necessarily follow the same rules here.

So Tagging works like this as I understand it:
You can use a tag to Invoke for a +2 bonus, a reroll, or for Effect.  In these cases, you under no conditions give a fate point to another party.  However, using a Tag to Invoke for Effect can be used to make a Compel, in this case the GM pays the Compelled target one Fate Point if they accept (or takes a Fate Point if they resist), as per normal Compel rules (which are technically not Invocation rules).

Or you could think of Tagging as allowing Invokes of all sorts and Compels, but in the case of compels fate points are still received by compelled targets.  I am not sure what the most succinct way to word it is.

In Fred's example the tag is not being used for a compel. It is being used as an Invoke for Effect. If said Invoke for Effect does something to the recipient that would be compel worthy, then the GM would compel it. So the player is Invoking for effect, The GM is compelling it for better story.

18
DFRPG / Re: *Cough* *Sneeze* "I have the flu..." Giving PCs the sniffles.
« on: February 07, 2011, 04:40:17 PM »
I might use this idea for an example for a serious consequence for one of my character with a fatigue (modified hunger) track. She would get worn down and then get sick. which would be hilarious. the character is an eight year old animal shape shifter with the trouble "flips the table". Getting sick would be an interesting challenge for the player.

Had a funny thought. A character with Mono. It might be a good excuse if one of your collage going characters can't be around for a while.

19
DFRPG / Re: True Hope
« on: February 07, 2011, 04:32:50 PM »
ME. The eternal optimist. Everyone and everything can improve if we try.

personally the "True Hope" thing just doesn't make sense to me and I think it's kind of stupid. In my games, I run it as True Faith making true believers slightly more powerful if only for a single enemy (or potential friend) but still. True Faith just works better for it, imo.

I think that your on the right track here. A good amount of people with True Faith would be in the same category as far as I see it. Try imagining some people with the same personality, just without faith in the picture.

20
DFRPG / Re: Invoking/Compelling for Effect?
« on: February 05, 2011, 06:42:35 PM »
In my game one of my players has "rodney dangerfield complex". He's a 18 inch tall fairy. whenever someone makes a comment to disrespect him I compel his one aspect to stand up for himself and start talking back to him. combine this with another player who has a smart mouth and an aspect "Say what?". She made an off comment about his size (had to do with a dog collar). I compelled his aspect to stand up for himself and give some lip to my second player who I compelled with her aspect to start a social conflict with each other.

Anything is possible if the person in question is willing to work with the fate points, I suggest though that for compelling that you spell out both sides. Tell them what happens if they accept the FP and what happens if they turn it down.

21
DFRPG / Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
« on: February 04, 2011, 06:15:13 PM »
Plus you can see if the party has a large number of a certain type of character. Lots of fae could mean more time in the nevernever, dealing with the courts. What does Rome look like in the nevernever? If a lot of players choose wizards maybe have the game more magic oriented. If there is a lo of shape-shifters you could spend some time in the rolling country side.

22
DFRPG / Re: At The Table: Gamers And Their Dice
« on: February 03, 2011, 05:32:06 PM »
I have a friend that will do crazy stuff if someone touches one of his dice with bare flesh. He can't touch them himself after it has been contaminated, and hen he destroys them. another player puts all of his dice with desired side face up, while I prefer face down if I decide to organize them while playing. I tend to have bad luck with dice and blame it on the fact that I tend to be the dice bank when I have all my dice around (I have over a thousand) so my luck is used by others.

23
DFRPG / Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
« on: January 31, 2011, 11:09:26 PM »
These guys in my campaign as NPCs. I'm not allowing Vampires as PCs in this campaign.

24
DFRPG / Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
« on: January 31, 2011, 10:43:29 PM »
Suicide isn't fundamentally being greedy or selfish...that's just a stupid line people in shows and real life sometimes use against people who do or consider it.  I think looking at it that way in a serious manner really misses the point of what despair and chronic pain really does to a person.  It's more about hopelessness than anything else.

When drowning in nothing what is there to hold on to? 

Sorry the quote is pretty much my opinion on the nature of depression for me, Sucide is not about greed but more about despair. Sorry  ;) I used to write really emo poetry and can't help the occasional turn of Pressumptious Melancholic Tripe. 


Sorry. I didn't mean their motives would be greedy. But to me suicide is all about their problems/hopelessness and doesn't always reflect the effect that it might have on others, or the fact that there might be another way out, through support, or change, usually with the help of others. That level of despair/hopelessness/pain/reason makes the person (even justifiably) think of nothing or nobody else, which can be outwardly construed at selfish. It was a poor choice of words, but that wasn't the point of the post. So sorry. Do you have any other thoughts on the subject?

25
DFRPG / Re: 3rd DFRPG book in the works?
« on: January 31, 2011, 09:21:30 PM »
I would love to see Toot-toot and the 'Za-gaurd if they're updating from the fiction.

26
DFRPG / Re: My Group Hates the System
« on: January 31, 2011, 06:20:44 PM »
The biggest point I think that has been made here is that if your players want something (fate points, cover, story, etc.) it's as much their job to get it as is your job to give it to them.

27
DFRPG / Re: DFRPG miniatures?
« on: January 31, 2011, 05:58:05 PM »
I got an email back from the gentleman who made the sculpt, but no one is making it. He tried contacting Jim Butcher's agent, but had no success.

28
DFRPG / Re: Red Court Infected question...
« on: January 31, 2011, 05:43:50 PM »
I've been having similar thoughts over this with the whole changeling turning into full blown Fae. For both RCV and Fae they seem to Have to follow their nature, but it seems to be their choosing on how to follow said nature. I was thinking that maybe explaining to the player that they will get compels that they can't refuse, and have there refresh ratings come into play less often.

29
DFRPG / Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
« on: January 31, 2011, 05:23:20 PM »
But my thought was that if a lust based WCV can shut down the inhibitions of a person, then maybe a gluttony WCV could shut down the gag reflex or something similar. It's like a WCV owning a strip/night club. They feed off the latent sexual atmosphere, but that doesn't fully sate them, so a few customers (that wouldn't be missed) would "disappear" from time to time. It has been scientifically been proven that having a food craving sets off the same parts of the brain as a drug addiction, just to lesser degrees. Chocolate Sets off the same part of the brain as sex does. There is more to food then just a need for calories.

If you want to argue a group emotion versus solitary state of mind. Despair resulted in suicide in the books. That can be considered one of the most greedy, most solitary escape method out there. There is no interaction from the vampire or other people like a lust based WCV, except for the manipulation of the mind. They then feed of of the process, and then the death. This is what I was basing the whole idea on.

30
DFRPG / Re: Wards and the First Law
« on: January 28, 2011, 04:19:58 PM »
LOL. Too true, too true. But that's human nature. It's interesting that sometimes the differences between us and the Fae can be so close. Maybe that's why they show such interest in us.  :)

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