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McAnally's (The Community Pub) => Author Craft => Topic started by: pathele on June 26, 2006, 01:12:01 PM
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Hey all,
I have been writing for most of my life. I have never been part of a writers group, on-line or otherwise. I started looking around for one in my area (Oklahoma City), but most of the ones I found are for Romance or some other genre.
Here's my questions:
How many of you belong to on-line writers groups?
Are they as useful as in-person writers groups?
Are there any that you would recommend for an unpublished aspiring writer?
thanks in advance for the info.
-paul aka travln_bard
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The only online crit group I ever participated in was on Kelley Armstrong's website. She's got a thriving writing community over there, and while it's open to all genres (including screenwriting and poetry forums), there's a lot of paranormal of all flavors.
I received some good comments on what I posted there- not just positive stuff but also helpful critical comments. But I've found that I prefer to work with a "real world" critique group. My group met through NaNoWriMo. Even if it's not really for you, I'd recommend checking out your local NaNo chapter. For me, it's been a great way to meet other local writers. Our group is all over the board as far as genre- vampire, space opera, romance, and a lit fic about slavery in the 1700s. But I like the variety. The difference not only between individual writer's styles but also of the different genres keeps you on your toes. And it was the one member of the group who DOESN'T read romance novels who pointed out that I was totally violating my hero's character in the first love scene. So sometimes it's a reader with no background in the genre who sees things with the sharpest eyes.
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I used to (and Hastur after me) run the CHUDStories arm of Cinematic Happenings Under Development. The point of the whole thing is that there were some talented writers on the board that were fledgling, and the site wanted to put up original stories by them. I got to act as editor.
The side of effect of this was that it became a sort of writer's group, as people woul comment on the stories posted, on the boards. (This would be after Hastur or I edited them.) It had a positive effect, we believe.
The site's story arm is still limping along, under a different editor, if you're interested. ( www.chud.com )
*waiting for someone to suggest a writer's group being formed from these boards*
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*waiting for someone to suggest a writer's group being formed from these boards*
Now that is a REALLY great idea.
Would anyone be interested in something like that? ;D
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I would be. I belong to a couple of online writers' groups, but I would have to say that real-world groups are probably more beneficial. The Internet is all fine and dandy, but human contact has its uses. You know the people, you get more personal feedback, etc. On the other hand, if you want nonpartial feedback, you might be better off going online.
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I know that Diana Gabaldon is involved in an online writing group, she is one of my fav authors.
http://www.its.caltech.edu/~gatti/gabaldon/fun/links.html
Also, I know someone, I've posted about her before but she used to be in publishing and has a website on the industry and self marketing and such. She's pretty witty and there's commenting back from readers. I like it because it's a good look at the all sides of writing and different issues involved.
http://www.thepublishingcontrarian.com/
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I'm in the process of setting up a writer's forum. My intention is to make it available for small groups of writers in whatever genre to create and share techniques with each other. Still in formative stage, but if I get off the pot, it may be up by August 1st. If anyone is interested I'll provide the info when ready.
I had my own Workshop in my kitchen for ten years and the personal, face-to-face contact is difficult to give up. But I've discovered that people are not as willing to take personal time away from their routines as much today. So I participated in several writer's classes on-line, and found the feedback to be very helpful, both from the instructors and the students. I agree that the anonymity seems to empower people to speak their thoughts much more openly, so you have to have tough skin in some cases.
S
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I think the biggest advantage to online writer's groups IS time management. Trying to get five or six people together in one spot is not an easy task these days, especially if the people in question have kids. Schedules are just too tight. Online groups mean people can participate whenever they have a spare minute in their day.
That said, I'm not big on them. I read for fun and I write for fun. Reading for a purpose (to critique) generally means I don't really enjoy it; reading should never resemble a job for me. And almost by definition, the stories aren't that good. The authors are asking for help to polish them, acknowledging that the story needs help. I have so much to read that IS good, I find it painful to slog through bad stuff. If it were just a bad story in a magazine or a book, I'd be free to put it down and walk away. In a critique group, the whole point is to read and give helpful tips. I can't do it. I've tried.
Also, you can run into the people who submit because they want the ego boost. They want to be told their work is sunshine and roses, and the least little bit of criticism results in temper tantrums that would make a two-year-old blush. Or worse, criticism given in the most mild and helpful form sends the author into a pit of despair, and then I just end up feeling like I'm a puppy-kicker. "I really liked your pacing; you've got a great grasp of how to keep a story moving! One thing you might want to consider, though, is whether or not your main character should have such an easy time overcoming all their obstacles." "Thank you for letting me know. You're right. I've burned the story, and am withdrawing from the group. I suck." Oi.
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I would be totally open to trying an online writing group. I'm currently participating in a writing group that meets in person every other week (if we can make it). It's been helpful so far, but I find that not all of us have the same self-motivation. It's almost like it's turned into more of a social gathering of sorts.
I have to admit, I wouldn't be great at coordinating such a group. However, if someone was willing to get one started, they could count me on board.
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I belong to the Online Writers Workshop for sci-fi/fantasy. I only signed up recently, but just the act of critiquing other authors' works is helpful in and of itself. I haven't posted any work of my own for critique yet, so I can't speak to that experience, but based on the reviews of others' work, it looks very helpful. Several of the critiques are very comprehensive.
*waiting for someone to suggest a writer's group being formed from these boards*
<g> Well hey, that wouldn't suck. ;D
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The Critique Circle at http://www.critiquecircle.com seems rather friendly to me. It seems to have a nice variety of people, from the hobbyists to the professionals.
I hear many cool things about Forward Motion www.fmwriters.com (http://www.fmwriters.com), but it seems to me to be really darn intense. :)
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*waiting for someone to suggest a writer's group being formed from these boards*
<g> Well hey, that wouldn't suck. ;D
Sign me up :) I'm looking for a online writers group.
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Hey all,
I have been writing for most of my life. I have never been part of a writers group, on-line or otherwise. I started looking around for one in my area (Oklahoma City), but most of the ones I found are for Romance or some other genre.
Here's my questions:
How many of you belong to on-line writers groups?
Are they as useful as in-person writers groups?
Are there any that you would recommend for an unpublished aspiring writer?
thanks in advance for the info.
-paul aka travln_bard
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I dunno about groups, but I found this Gotham Writing place online doing a search on classes:
http://www.writingclasses.com/HomePages/indexOnline.php
I'm still checking it out, but it looks like a good nuts and bolts approach to writing. I'm wondering if anyone else has heard of it?
Kilso
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Oh, I belong to a BUNCH of them.
I'm one of the Moderators on Absolute Write http://www.AbsoluteWrite.com/forums, where a bunch of SF/fantasy authors hang out (James D. Macdonald, Victoria Strauss, A.C. Crispin, etc.), as well as well-known agents, editors and publishing attorneys. It's over 9,000 strong and a very friendly group! ;D
A few others are:
Writers BBC http://www.writersbbs.com/forums/#chat
Writers.net http://www.writers.net
WritersWeekly http://forums.writersweekly.com
The Writer (on-line home of the magazine) http://www.writermag.com/wrt/community/forum
Etc., etc. There are lots more, too, depending on your primary writing genre. Yes, I think they're useful, depending on your goals. For example, on AW (AbsoluteWrite) they have a "Share Your Work" forum that's password protected where other pubbed writers will help you iron out your query or synopsis or even a chapter. You can even ask stupid questions to REAL editors and agents (we've had guest agents from Curtis Brown, Trident Media, Rights Unlimited and others!) without having them laugh at you.
Stop by any one of them and say HI to me! :D
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Wow.
I've heard of AbsoluteWrite, but I think that's the only one. Thanks! :)
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*waiting for someone to suggest a writer's group being formed from these boards*
Now that is a REALLY great idea.
Would anyone be interested in something like that? ;D
See me here? I'M INTERESTED!
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I was thinking about it today, and you know, it would be really easy to set up a blog or livejournal as a writers group. Say it was a livejournal....the group could set it up as private, then each story is a journal entry (all the members would be given the password and share the username) then the critiques could be comments. It would be really easy, and more importantly...FREE! I haven't actually participated in a writers group yet, but I thought it might work. I developed the same basic idea last year for my english class (book reviews/other comments on the book...my teacher ended up using the idea for a questions/answer blog that we were graded on).
If anyone's interested, I could set it up?
Or anyone else is perfectly free to just use the idea for themselves.
okay....later then.
-danielle
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Not sure if it's relevent to the thread, but I don't belong to any writer's groups. I tried a few times...and it just doesn't work for me. Mostly because I feel an obligation to crit something of the people who crit me, and I'm a hard critic, and I focus and write a lot when I sit down to crit someone's work. I don't just blow it over, I go, literally, line-by-line and note down what I see as both a reader and as a writer. It takes so much energy out of me, I end up "burning out" because I don't have the energy to keep the crits coming and also work on my stuff at the same time. I can do one or the other, but not both. Since I have a choice, I put the energy into my work most of the time, and stay away from circles where I am expected to critique things frequently, unless the person is a personal friend.
I do have people who read my stuff, but they do it because they like my stuff, not because they need to be critiqued in turn.
I'm just mentioning this because writer's groups are pushed very hard as Something To Do. And it's not mentioned very frequently that there are people who just don't get anything out of them, or can't do them. So I'm just throwing out an alternate viewpoint. It does seem that a lot of people do get something out of them. I'm just not one of them.
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I have to highly recommend Forward Motion, www.fm-writers.com, founded and operated by author Holly Lisle.
It's 100% free. Even better, it's mostly free of jerks and idiots.
Also note: Many pro authors, including Wen Spencer, Valerie Griswold-Ford, Lazette Gifford, and (friend of Jim Butcher) C.E. Murphy can sometimes be spotted there in chat... :D
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Although I'd ALSO be interested in a writing group here at this forum, if one starts.
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It's been mentioned already, but Kelly Armstrong's writing group is great. I've gotten more out of it than any RL writing group.
The way it's organized allows for each person to get critiqueing time. Then there's the fact that in teaching someone something, you often learn it better yourself.
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I think I joined Critters a LONG time ago, or something similar. Like ... 8 years ago? I was a late-teens writer, thought I was pretty hot stuff, had torn up the local and regional contests for short fiction and poetry. All I remember was there was a very strict system in place for reciprocal critting and you had to critique X other works before your work could be submitted for critique, etc etc.
I didn't write a single complete page of fantasy/sci-fi fiction from the time I quit attending until a few weeks ago.
Between that and alot of Doom! and Gloom! in the writings I was uncovering on the industry, I decided that a career as fantasy novelist wasn't going to happen. The way I read it, if my first book wasn't a break-out best seller I'd end up blacklisted and my second book would be unpublishable.
I'm back (with a few degrees and some experience), but I'm still wary of online critique groups. Some published authors swear by them ... some of the best out there think they're crap. I figure it depends on who you are and what kind of group it is. I might try one again. I don't know.
--fje
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*waiting for someone to suggest a writer's group being formed from these boards*
Now that is a REALLY great idea.
Would anyone be interested in something like that? ;D
*raises hand and waves* Me!
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I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the Cherries. The email critique list is closed and has a waiting list, but there's a lot of good writing chat & advice on the BB: http://www.cherryforums.com/index.php
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Ok, if I set up an invite-only BB for the authors here to write stories and post for each other, would people be interested?
This is nothing Jim-Official, just us getting together.
Phil Boswell has given us an unintentional challenge:
" How much mileage could you realistically get out of a protagonist who is good at reducing themselves to dripping goo?"
While the board would be open to helping anyone with any story, I was thinking about having writing assignments, to push people...that could be the first one ;)
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I'd like to sign up. I already have fourteen chapters of a novel written so far that qualifies for that challenge. ;D
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I would be interested also. I have only had freinds read my work and (depending on the freind) they either thing its the greatest thing since sliced bread or they try to rewrite it into what THEY think it should be.
I also wouldn't mind reading other work and learning from them.