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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Con on June 05, 2018, 03:15:48 AM

Title: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Con on June 05, 2018, 03:15:48 AM
I liked it. Felt like a family adventure.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: pcpoet on June 05, 2018, 07:25:11 AM
I want my short story
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: pcpoet on June 05, 2018, 10:47:06 AM
now I understand what Jim butcher meant when he said that mouse knew more the anyone else about what was going on. also harry need a new apprentice I think it would be cool if Austin was the apprentice it would give Maggie some one to have her first crush on and make harry a grumpy old wizard.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Mira on June 05, 2018, 11:24:25 AM


   Just woke up, where are the spoilers
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Arjan on June 05, 2018, 03:42:53 PM
IT was a Nice story, well structured, but I had hoped for something bigger because I already read all the other stories in the compilation.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Aegnoralkarin on June 05, 2018, 08:39:57 PM
Maggie's section was heartbreaking and hopeful all at once. Girl has had it rough.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: SerScot on June 06, 2018, 02:38:01 AM
Inwant to know how Murphynis doing. 
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: knnn on June 06, 2018, 03:21:36 AM
So if Maggie's shoes were light-ups, how did it get completely dark in the basement?
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Wolfeyes on June 06, 2018, 12:00:12 PM
I almost feel like Maggie/Mouse's sections were a pilot for the planned Maggie spinoff, which I wouldn't be against seeing more of! Maggie's POV does a great job making her a nuanced character and, even without her bad memories, her age lets her interact with things Harry can't. Which is a nice callback to the boogeyman story.

I think one of the most interesting things about ZD too is Jim's author's note about it, especially his acknowledgment Harry's life has to change with the fact he's a dad even if it means losing some of his audience. One of my concerns with Changes was if Maggie was just going to disappear from the series until dramatically convenient since it would've made her and Harry's relationship to her feel more like a cheap plot device. However, ZD's gone a long ways in helping assuage those concerns.

Plus, it actually gives me hope Harry might live a long while, considering how much of Maggie's fears are rooted in people dying or disappearing.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: datalaughing on June 06, 2018, 12:31:52 PM
I have to say, I really love the multi-layered nature of this story, with how the perspectives build on each other. Really amazing bit of writing, imo. Loved it, and it just made me want that Maggie/Mouse spinoff more than ever.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Vanderboom on June 06, 2018, 04:30:57 PM
ZD was such a sweet story, but now it has made me curious about the rest of Mouse's litter. Also: I'm curious as to how Thomas will interact with Maggie.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: SerScot on June 06, 2018, 04:52:27 PM
I'd like to hear more about Austin.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: pcpoet on June 06, 2018, 08:46:40 PM
I have a feeling that Austin is not a throw away character.   I am betting that he ends up being  Harrys new apprentice.  The act of letting his daughter interact with Austin is important. I also wonder about mousse interaction with Austin and mouse's interaction with harry and molly. I find it very revealing that mouse went to work at getting rid of the effects of black magic on Austin's soul . this has me wondering if mouse was  the reason that harry did not fall to lashie'ls coin. did mouse aid in the repair of molly's soul so that she did not become  warlock . 
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: wardenferry419 on June 07, 2018, 12:59:24 AM
I thought Zoo Day was a great story!
Maggie and Mouse was a good combo. Was Maggie using a variation of the Sight to identify what was in those kids? Is that why she is so jumpy because she is seeing something that others don't see?
The confrontation between Mouse and "Nega-Mouse" was informative and interesting. Mouse is definitely a canine Harry but with better sense.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: soundsofsilence on June 07, 2018, 08:32:19 AM
Was Maggie using a variation of the Sight to identify what was in those kids? Is that why she is so jumpy because she is seeing something that others don't see?

I got the sense that that wasn't a "magical power" thing, it was a "being a kid" thing. The story wasn't totally clear, but it seemed to be indicating that haunts and creeps and baglers and underhides and whatnot were things that all kids could see and had to deal with, but forgot about as they grew up. Then again, maybe not, because the kids Maggie rescued didn't seem to know what was going on. Still, ZD talked about how each of the Carpenter kids also once knew about them then forgot as they got older, and apparently there's a "Book." Maggie is the first adolescent voice we've heard from in any story so far, so it would make sense that we haven't heard of them before. Although I immediately thought of Ivy, and I wonder how her knowledge of them would work with the Archive?

I loved this short story, it might be my favorite. Maggie's character is awesome, and now I really want that Maggie/Mouse series.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: datalaughing on June 07, 2018, 10:52:40 AM
I am betting that he ends up being  Harrys new apprentice.

If Harry was going to get a new apprentice I sort of doubt that we’d be introduced to them in a short. Generally the shorts have small effects on the main series. Usually just a reference here and there that you can grin about if you’d read the shorts but if you haven’t won’t throw you off your stride for people who just read the books. I can’t imagine Jim is going to start Peace Talks with Harry having a new apprentice in tow that the book-only people have never heard of. Jim tends to build major characters, not just drop them in. Molly was introduced like 5 or 6 books before she became Harry’s apprentice.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: jonas on June 07, 2018, 11:25:12 AM
If Harry was going to get a new apprentice I sort of doubt that we’d be introduced to them in a short. Generally the shorts have small effects on the main series. Usually just a reference here and there that you can grin about if you’d read the shorts but if you haven’t won’t throw you off your stride for people who just read the books. I can’t imagine Jim is going to start Peace Talks with Harry having a new apprentice in tow that the book-only people have never heard of. Jim tends to build major characters, not just drop them in. Molly was introduced like 5 or 6 books before she became Harry’s apprentice.
Yea, Fitz(?) is in line first, he's in the files and he's a talent implying a deeper ability too.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Mira on June 07, 2018, 11:29:43 AM
   Though I haven finished the story yet, it appears to me that Maggie suffers severely from PTSD and my theory is it has developed her wizard's sight, thus she sees the young bullies like versions of vamps..  In truth their instinct to attack a perceived weak a vulnerable child among them makes them that..  I think if Harry were to look at those kids with his sight, he'd see them as Maggie and Mouse do.. However as we know, unlike Maggie he has control over his sight.  Now what Mouse sees lurking in the wings as the controlling entity might be something else.  Haven't got that far yet but I think it might turn out to be Austin's monster from the Nevernever, perhaps one of the Ebs that escaped the slaughter at C.I. but in a new form.   Given Austin's age in relation to Maggie's age, if he returns, possible future husband for her?
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Maz on June 07, 2018, 06:10:47 PM
1) I loved Zoo Day - its been a while but was glad I purchased the anthology despite having read all of them already except for Day One and Zoo Day.
2) Mouse has TWO siblings missing... someone wants to breed evil foo dogs - that's news?
3) Austin could make a good apprentice and I think Harry really needs one to proceed.
4) Maggie came off solidly!
5) Maggie's threats... Mouse's threats... Harry's threats... someone really really dangerous is trying to hunt them all.  I'm sort of excited for Peace Talks.  I already was, to be honest, but this makes it more so.  And by adding "mortal" components to Harry, namely a human apprentice and a daughter, it helps drag Harry back from the land of the Superheros... sure, he himself might be Demigod-like to an extent compared to us mere mortals but there's way to reestablish threats that he otherwise could ignore. 
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: pcpoet on June 07, 2018, 08:27:23 PM
you really cant threaten harry and have him take you serious at this point but his daughter is a different story......its like with superman cant hurt him but hurt Lois lane or jimmy Olson and you have hurry superman.....harry need people to care about so bad guys can make the mistake of trying to leverage his love of friends and family as a weakness to be exploited...this is dispite the fact that he already roasted marshmallows on the red courts funeral pier.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Darkest-Before-Dawn on June 08, 2018, 09:43:52 AM
2) Mouse has TWO siblings missing... someone wants to breed evil foo dogs - that's news?


This was the most interesting part of the short for me. Especially 'Taken by figures in dark robes, male and female,' . It absolutely screamed Cowl and Kumori. Cowl has already set himself up to be a true nemesis to Harry, so why not give him a 'Dark Mouse' to boot.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Mira on June 08, 2018, 11:18:19 AM

    Finished the story last night, it could be that Cowl is manipulating Mouse's brother and sister..   
 
  I do have a couple of questions..

   1] What is the Book that Maggie was given by the Carpenter kids?  Since it was capitalized was it the Bible or a book of Catechism?  But Maggie's quotes from it didn't fit exactly, wonder if Michael and Charity with help wrote up a kid's version because the children of a Holy Knight could face a lot of crap and needed a guide to cope..

  2] What is the future they foresee for Maggie?  Because they seemed to want her dead because of what she will become, not out of revenge or some other motive to get at Harry..   


Oh and one more observation,  Mouse lumped Mab in with the good guys he hopes will watch over Harry and help him..  Harry might argue with that point just a bit, but Mouse might be the better judge of character as all dogs are.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Darkest-Before-Dawn on June 08, 2018, 12:02:50 PM

   
   1] What is the Book that Maggie was given by the Carpenter kids?  Since it was capitalized was it the Bible or a book of Catechism?  But Maggie's quotes from it didn't fit exactly, wonder if Michael and Charity with help wrote up a kid's version because the children of a Holy Knight could face a lot of crap and needed a guide to cope..



Seemed to me to be a compendium of creatures that only kids could see. Created by Molly as a child and passed down through the Carpenter siblings to provide information once the older children had forgotten those creatures and couldn't see them anymore. Makes sense for a family who's father battled monsters all the time.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Mira on June 08, 2018, 04:46:32 PM
Seemed to me to be a compendium of creatures that only kids could see. Created by Molly as a child and passed down through the Carpenter siblings to provide information once the older children had forgotten those creatures and couldn't see them anymore. Makes sense for a family who's father battled monsters all the time.

Possible, or once the kid matures they can cope because they have developed the skills to deal with the monsters that might take advantage of vulnerable children.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: wardenferry419 on June 08, 2018, 11:59:57 PM


This was the most interesting part of the short for me. Especially 'Taken by figures in dark robes, male and female,' . It absolutely screamed Cowl and Kumori. Cowl has already set himself up to be a true nemesis to Harry, so why not give him a 'Dark Mouse' to boot.
I hadn't thought about that angle. It would make things very interesting.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: pcpoet on June 09, 2018, 02:00:25 AM
I wonder what life was like for the IVY when it came to monsters only kids could see....imagine a oblivion story based on destroying or altering this book that the carpenters wrote,  it could be the reason that ivy actually chose to be the arbitrator for the dual in death mask. remember that Molly was 13 or 14 at the end of her child hood but still a child.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Snark Knight on June 10, 2018, 01:08:03 AM
I wonder what life was like for the IVY when it came to monsters only kids could see....imagine a oblivion story based on destroying or altering this book that the carpenters wrote,  it could be the reason that ivy actually chose to be the arbitrator for the dual in death mask. remember that Molly was 13 or 14 at the end of her child hood but still a child.

What, like a child-eating phobophage actually trying to attack Ivy? It would probably be dead before it even realized it had made a huge mistake, unless she valued leaving it alive to warn its peers not to mess with her. There's a pretty big gulf in how directly powerful the antagonists for a children's or YA series can be vs. what it would take to threaten someone insulated by the full power of the Archive.

The targets in the Oblivion War that are anchored to reality by human knowledge are the really big fish of the Dresdenverse. As far as Ivy is concerned, if childhood phobophages merit her consideration at all, they're probably more on the scale where she's content to see knowledge of how to fight them spread around. If working to get mortals to forget the nasties was the best course of action for everything, Lara would hardly have personally engineered the Stokerlypse. Frankly, if the things that target kids were so powerful as to be targets of the Oblivion war, the post-industrialization population boom probably wouldn't have happened on account of them eating the extra humans.

Besides, even if Ivy did want the Carpenter kids' book gone, destroying it would do little when there are still young kids around the house aware of its contents and able to recreate it. Even if Ivy were to personally take a role in destroying written records - and everything we know about the Archive's compulsive caution says working through Venator cutouts makes more sense than exposing herself to unnecessary risk by acting personally - the time to get that book would be after the last child has grown up.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: pcpoet on June 10, 2018, 03:25:04 AM
imagine a creature that is anchored by a  child knowledge that  is really dangerous when compared to the other monsters recorded in the book or the children discovering a ritual that to use on the child hood monsters that actually feed something worse then the monster.…..yes the stuff that molly wrote down was just the childhood fears and how to deal with theses monsters but imagine something worse being written about.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Slowpool on June 10, 2018, 04:17:10 AM
Possible, or once the kid matures they can cope because they have developed the skills to deal with the monsters that might take advantage of vulnerable children.
I might be misunderstanding you, but it's specifically stated that when you "grow up" (exactly what qualifies as growing up in this case is yet to be shown) you forget all about these monsters- stated both in-universe and by WoJ.  There's no coping.  To you, they've never existed.  They can affect you, apparently, but you're clueless.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Mpol on June 12, 2018, 02:49:25 AM
Jim has confirmed in a recent signing Austin is just a minor character with no plans to use him in the future... as yet.

I love that Jim has this outline of the series but has kept it loose enough to allow additions and  changes to the smaller details.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: pcpoet on June 12, 2018, 03:06:51 AM
I think Austin would be more appropriate for the Maggie and Mouse series if he ever does it.  I saw the video of it and he did say that if the fans like him he might be used again.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Arjan on June 12, 2018, 04:35:49 AM
Jim has confirmed in a recent signing Austin is just a minor character with no plans to use him in the future... as yet.

I love that Jim has this outline of the series but has kept it loose enough to allow additions and  changes to the smaller details.
Just like Butters. :)
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: pcpoet on June 12, 2018, 04:48:57 AM
Dresden needs a new apprentice    I loved the story's about molly when she was just  kid in Harrys eyes.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Slowpool on June 12, 2018, 05:04:56 AM
Dresden needs a new apprentice    I loved the story's about molly when she was just  kid in Harrys eyes.
  I'd like to see how Maggie grows into whatever power comes to her.  Jim has said that if she does manifest magic, it would almost certainly be affected by the fact her mother was a half-turned vampire.  I'd love to see how that interacts with a magical talent.  A female lead with wizard magic AND pseudo-vampire powers going to totally-not-Hogwarts?  That's Young Adult series gold, right there.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Snark Knight on June 14, 2018, 03:12:03 AM
This was the most interesting part of the short for me. Especially 'Taken by figures in dark robes, male and female,' . It absolutely screamed Cowl and Kumori. Cowl has already set himself up to be a true nemesis to Harry, so why not give him a 'Dark Mouse' to boot.

That certainly seems like the implication.

While the narrative structure of nobody else understanding what Mouse is picking up because he can't communicate complex ideas to Hary or Maggie is cute for short story purposes, it kind of falls apart when we remember that Molly CAN understand him just fine. Dark, probably N-fected foo dogs working for probably Cowl and Kumori is something really freaking important to pass along, and ignoring that a suitable translator is around every week for family dinners at the Carpenter house would be a bit of a wtf? issue going forward if Harry stays unaware of it.

Or, hell, even Lea next time they cross paths - she'd be well motivated to continue checking names off her revenge list, if there's a lead on who gave her the athame.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: jonas on June 14, 2018, 04:06:03 AM
That certainly seems like the implication.

While the narrative structure of nobody else understanding what Mouse is picking up because he can't communicate complex ideas to Hary or Maggie is cute for short story purposes, it kind of falls apart when we remember that Molly CAN understand him just fine. Dark, probably N-fected foo dogs working for probably Cowl and Kumori is something really freaking important to pass along, and ignoring that a suitable translator is around every week for family dinners at the Carpenter house would be a bit of a wtf? issue going forward if Harry stays unaware of it.

Or, hell, even Lea next time they cross paths - she'd be well motivated to continue checking names off her revenge list, if there's a lead on who gave her the athame.
Fairie, information, exchange....balance...
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: peregrine on June 14, 2018, 04:14:41 AM
I'll tell you who did this thing to do you so you can murder them if you murder them for me.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Snark Knight on June 14, 2018, 02:18:35 PM
Fairie, information, exchange....balance...

That might be an issue if Harry was still just a wizard while Molly was the Lady. But this is tactical information about the capabilities and agenda of probable Nemesis agents. The Mothers already showed Queens can educate the Knight about the contest with the enemy without needing a trade of information.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: jonas on June 14, 2018, 05:09:26 PM
That might be an issue if Harry was still just a wizard while Molly was the Lady. But this is tactical information about the capabilities and agenda of probable Nemesis agents. The Mothers already showed Queens can educate the Knight about the contest with the enemy without needing a trade of information.
Nothing Mouse knows is Winter knowledge, it's not giving out WInters protocol or effect. I'ts relaying of communication. Has nothing to do with enemies. ANd the mothers did so in reply to an inquiry, based upon a command, not seeking random info, or beign supplied offhand.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: groinkick on June 14, 2018, 06:28:51 PM
That certainly seems like the implication.

While the narrative structure of nobody else understanding what Mouse is picking up because he can't communicate complex ideas to Hary or Maggie is cute for short story purposes, it kind of falls apart when we remember that Molly CAN understand him just fine. Dark, probably N-fected foo dogs working for probably Cowl and Kumori is something really freaking important to pass along, and ignoring that a suitable translator is around every week for family dinners at the Carpenter house would be a bit of a wtf? issue going forward if Harry stays unaware of it.

Or, hell, even Lea next time they cross paths - she'd be well motivated to continue checking names off her revenge list, if there's a lead on who gave her the athame.

Who says Molly or the Queen's know about the Foo Dogs being Nemfected (they might not be)?  Mab didn't even know her own daughter was infected for a while.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Snark Knight on June 14, 2018, 08:39:22 PM
Who says Molly or the Queen's know about the Foo Dogs being Nemfected (they might not be)?  Mab didn't even know her own daughter was infected for a while.

They don't yet. But Mouse can tell them, or at least tell them enough to piece it together if he doesn't already know the significance of the 'acting against their nature' part.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: groinkick on June 15, 2018, 03:49:59 AM
They don't yet. But Mouse can tell them, or at least tell them enough to piece it together if he doesn't already know the significance of the 'acting against their nature' part.

Mouse might not be able to tell them.  The whole "rules" thing.  He may be free to do so but he also appears to have to follow laws as well... 
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: BigFire on June 15, 2018, 03:09:03 PM
Dresden needs a new apprentice    I loved the story's about molly when she was just  kid in Harrys eyes.

Well, Dresden does have a second 'daughter' to take care of.  One wonders how does a Wizard raise a spirit child.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: pcpoet on June 15, 2018, 08:12:18 PM
Well, Dresden does have a second 'daughter' to take care of.  One wonders how does a Wizard raise a spirit child.


perhaps he needs a nanny not an aprentice
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Mr. Death on June 15, 2018, 08:50:13 PM
Mouse's section was such an amazing intersection of hilarious and adorable and so fundamentally Dog that it had me on the verge of tears.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: forumghost on June 18, 2018, 07:20:17 AM
What is the future they foresee for Maggie?  Because they seemed to want her dead because of what she will become, not out of revenge or some other motive to get at Harry..   

I didn't get that impression myself. To me it felt like My Shadow wanted her alive.

Which is quite possible far worse.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: jonas on June 18, 2018, 01:36:57 PM
I didn't get that impression myself. To me it felt like My Shadow wanted her alive.

Which is quite possible far worse.
Being as I've failed to even get out of the house let alone acquire BC I must ask, Does she mean "My Shadow" like it's her personal thing or is this an entity already manifest elsewhere?
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Mr. Death on June 18, 2018, 02:10:05 PM
Being as I've failed to even get out of the house let alone acquire BC I must ask, Does she mean "My Shadow" like it's her personal thing or is this an entity already manifest elsewhere?
"My Shadow" is not part of Maggie's narraation. It is
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: forumghost on June 18, 2018, 02:52:23 PM
Being as I've failed to even get out of the house let alone acquire BC I must ask, Does she mean "My Shadow" like it's her personal thing or is this an entity already manifest elsewhere?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: raidem on June 18, 2018, 06:29:23 PM
It seemed "My Shadow" was content with the ending and losing to Mouse.  Mouse told him something to the effect of there might be help for us/him yet.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: peregrine on June 19, 2018, 03:29:43 AM
Here's a thought;

Mouse has more or less said he chose Harry.  He "won" him, rather than vice versa.  Which implies that he made that decision from the start.

What does that mean for the ones who were stolen?  Did they also choose their "captors?"  Or was it easier for Mouse to just stick around with Harry than it was for the others to escape?
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Fcrate on June 19, 2018, 05:26:00 AM
Here's a thought;

Mouse has more or less said he chose Harry.  He "won" him, rather than vice versa.  Which implies that he made that decision from the start.

What does that mean for the ones who were stolen?  Did they also choose their "captors?"  Or was it easier for Mouse to just stick around with Harry than it was for the others to escape?
I didn't read it yet, but I believe he made the choice when he left the box of pups that was to be delivered to brother Wang. It would mean he chose to stay with Harry, who was reluctant to keep him and trying to send him back/give him to someone else at first.
Edit: Wong. Brother Wong..
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: raidem on June 19, 2018, 12:58:31 PM
Maybe Mouse used Puppy breath to arrange events to win Harry, aka Harry get Mouse.

I do like the thought also that maybe the other dogs might have 'chosen' or used some of their 'breath' to get chosen by their captors, maybe even so as to arrange freedom for their other litter mates.  So the two people stole the puppies, and then the puppies started working against their captors with their breath. The two largest used their breath to get more singled out so as to create a longer diversion for the other pups to work toward their escape.  This allows Harry, perhaps assisted behind the scenes by a parent Foo Dog or even the pup collective, to come in and work toward the pups freedom.  Mouse used his moment to get Harry.  Maybe the other dogs will do the same at other points in time.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: huangjimmy108 on June 20, 2018, 01:55:42 AM
now I understand what Jim butcher meant when he said that mouse knew more the anyone else about what was going on. also harry need a new apprentice I think it would be cool if Austin was the apprentice it would give Maggie some one to have her first crush on and make harry a grumpy old wizard.

You want the boy to be apprentice to former suspected warlock, political foe to the current Merlin, Warden of Demonreach and current holder of the winter knight?

Are you sure you are not trying to harm the boy?
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: groinkick on June 20, 2018, 03:58:06 AM
You want the boy to be apprentice to former suspected warlock, political foe to the current Merlin, Warden of Demonreach and current holder of the winter knight?

Are you sure you are not trying to harm the boy?

Sometimes the best person for teaching what is right is the person who has walked on the dark side.  Harry may be a suspected warlock, but he isn't one.  It's difficult for a troubled person to relate to a goody two shoes.  That being said I think Harry would be a better friend to the kid while seeing if someone like Lucio could teach him about magic, and how to use it.  Harry does have a full plate.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: forumghost on June 20, 2018, 05:53:44 AM
Also Harry's previous students haven't exactly done so well.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Arjan on June 20, 2018, 01:34:03 PM
Also Harry's previous students haven't exactly done so well.
Molly did perfect. She could have been a raving warlock messing with peoples brains left and right and now she fullfills a necessary role in the protection of this reality against the outsiders. She is a useful member of this reality.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: forumghost on June 20, 2018, 07:19:32 PM
Molly did perfect. She could have been a raving warlock messing with peoples brains left and right and now she fullfills a necessary role in the protection of this reality against the outsiders. She is a useful member of this reality.

She's been enslaved by the Queen of Evil Faeries and is slowly being Mindraped into a psychotic clone of her bitchy daughter.

Sounds like a raw deal to me.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Arjan on June 20, 2018, 08:59:42 PM
She's been enslaved by the Queen of Evil Faeries and is slowly being Mindraped into a psychotic clone of her bitchy daughter.

Sounds like a raw deal to me.
She is not enslaved, she has a purpose. It is not all roses and happyness I agree but it is an important purpose, worth doing. And she does not have to change in a clone of Maeve either because Maeve was an anomaly, she did not even do her job.

Yes it is difficult for her but she is not a failure, she is not useless, she is not a danger for everyone else. What she does is important. She will adapt.

Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 21, 2018, 12:18:50 AM
I still think it's possible that Mavra was behind the pupnappings.  She was in town and had darkhounds with her.  I like to think that she would enthrall them and build a new Blamp wizard corps, each with their own dark temple dog.

But with it confirmed that two were taken, rather than more, it does seem likely that they're with Cowl and Kumori.

Minor note: I think there was a minor editing mistake.  I think Maggie at one point said Harry was only wearing a t-shirt and jeans and didn't have his duster, but Mouse later observed her tugging on his coat sleeve.  I don't have the book handy and I only read it once, so I may be wrong

Mouse's section was such an amazing intersection of hilarious and adorable and so fundamentally Dog that it had me on the verge of tears.
It reminded me of Rowl's scenes in The Aeronaut's Windlass.  Which was my favorite part.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: huangjimmy108 on June 21, 2018, 05:14:33 AM
Molly did perfect. She could have been a raving warlock messing with peoples brains left and right and now she fullfills a necessary role in the protection of this reality against the outsiders. She is a useful member of this reality.

She is also heavily traumatize and half way insane before becoming the winter lady. Not voluntarily, I might add.

Unless you are insane, an adrenalin junky or has an over developed sense of responsibility and righteousness, it is best not to be involve with Dresden unless you are at least 30 years old if your are vanilla and 100 years old if you are a wizard.

Associating with Harry is bad for a child's development phase. The child tends to turn rebellious and tends to get into trouble with Harry around. And not your ordinary trouble too.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: groinkick on June 21, 2018, 05:32:59 AM
She is also heavily traumatize and half way insane before becoming the winter lady. Not voluntarily, I might add.

Unless you are insane, an adrenalin junky or has an over developed sense of responsibility and righteousness, it is best not to be involve with Dresden unless you are at least 30 years old if your are vanilla and 100 years old if you are a wizard.

Associating with Harry is bad for a child's development phase. The child tends to turn rebellious and tends to get into trouble with Harry around. And not your ordinary trouble too.

Molly without Harry would have become a warlock, then decapitated.  Her becoming the Winter Lady was based on her Choice to get involved with Leanansidhe.  As Jim said, the deals Sidhe make with you are designed to get you more, and more tangled up with them. 

It's not that Harry Dresden the man is a problem, it's that the world he lives in is so dangerous, and complicated.  If you spend time with someone like that you're bound to get dragged into that dangerous world.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: huangjimmy108 on June 21, 2018, 06:00:43 AM
Molly without Harry would have become a warlock, then decapitated.  Her becoming the Winter Lady was based on her Choice to get involved with Leanansidhe.  As Jim said, the deals Sidhe make with you are designed to get you more, and more tangled up with them. 

It's not that Harry Dresden the man is a problem, it's that the world he lives in is so dangerous, and complicated.  If you spend time with someone like that you're bound to get dragged into that dangerous world.

And why does Molly idolize magic so much? Who is the guy that gave the impression that wizardry is a cool job during Molly's childhood?

Harry obviously does not mean any harm and the DV world is not a very nice place as well. But Harry's track record with his first apprentice is not very good. Can't really blame him though, for a wizard Harry himself is still very young.

In my opinion, With the exception of little Maggi, it is better that children stay away from Harry if they want a normal life. I don't know weather it is a blessing or a curse, but those who stay around Harry for too long have a hard time staying normal and ordinary. Extraordinary things always happened around Harry and that in turn, tends to turn those around him into extraordinary people.

It is not all bad, but for children, well, I feell it is a bit much.

Little Maggi though, her fate is sealed. The blood of Dresden run in her veins. Her father is Harry Dresden, her grandmother is Maggi Lefay and her great grandfather is Ebenezar McKoy. Her mother is a journalist who dares to steal an invite to a vampire party. Normal is no longer a part of little Maggi's life. It is best for her to stay with Harry and turned extraordinary as fast as possible.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Carl on July 18, 2018, 01:51:01 PM
Mouse is definitely a canine Harry but with better sense.

Thats not a hard bar to pass. Also Mouse is adorable.

Jim has confirmed in a recent signing Austin is just a minor character with no plans to use him in the future... as yet.

I love that Jim has this outline of the series but has kept it loose enough to allow additions and  changes to the smaller details.

As someone who loves to engage in personal worldbuilding i doubt it's that hard for him. Then again i don't know exactly what his worldbuilding and storybuilding process looks like. But if it's anything like mine it's rather easy to juggle things because each scene and each story serves a storytelling purpose, but there's room to change how that purpose is fulfilled by quite a bit. Squeezing extra bits and pieces in isn;t trivial bu it's not as difficult and first thought might make you think. For me the hard part is often filling in the necessary gaps between important scenes. Things need to happen there for the narrative to not be disjointed and thats hard as hells bells.

Mouse's section was such an amazing intersection of hilarious and adorable and so fundamentally Dog that it had me on the verge of tears.

I know. Daaaawwwwww.

Molly without Harry would have become a warlock, then decapitated.  Her becoming the Winter Lady was based on her Choice to get involved with Leanansidhe.  As Jim said, the deals Sidhe make with you are designed to get you more, and more tangled up with them. 

It's not that Harry Dresden the man is a problem, it's that the world he lives in is so dangerous, and complicated.  If you spend time with someone like that you're bound to get dragged into that dangerous world.

Lea didn't exactly give Molly any choice from what we know. Lea even pointed it out to Harry in GS that she was required to sub for him by winter law. That said it's not entierly Harry's faulty, he only ended up in the position that got Lea involved because of lasciel.

And Harry is well known for having seen more for his age than is normal.

Probably a combination of being Starborn and especially the fact that he's a open wizard as it where. Most wizards spend their time in their own little strongholds protecting themselves and other wizards. They don't do much to help your average joe. Harry does, that put shim in a position to be in conflict with the bad guys a lot more.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: toodeep on August 02, 2018, 01:21:42 PM
I recently noticed a mistake in Zoo Day, it isn't a big one, but shouldn't Maggie's primary language have been Spanish?  We see her thoughts, they are in English, and she never appears to experience language barrier, confusion, or to search for words.  She may even still have a Hispanic accent.

I mean, it is reasonable that she may have learned some English wherever she was, but it certainly wasn't the primary language she used.  She would only have had to start using English when she moved in with the Carpenters.  There has been no discussion of language/culture issues, which is easily explained in most books by Harry being totally unaware of them, even if they existed.  But in this book we have her viewpoint, and there doesn't appear to be any acculturation issues.

Just a thought.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Mr. Death on August 02, 2018, 02:06:48 PM
I recently noticed a mistake in Zoo Day, it isn't a big one, but shouldn't Maggie's primary language have been Spanish?  We see her thoughts, they are in English, and she never appears to experience language barrier, confusion, or to search for words.  She may even still have a Hispanic accent.

I mean, it is reasonable that she may have learned some English wherever she was, but it certainly wasn't the primary language she used.  She would only have had to start using English when she moved in with the Carpenters.  There has been no discussion of language/culture issues, which is easily explained in most books by Harry being totally unaware of them, even if they existed.  But in this book we have her viewpoint, and there doesn't appear to be any acculturation issues.

Just a thought.
Her primary language was never established, so it's not a "mistake." She was raised by a Hispanic family, but we don't know what language they used in the home. Susan was an American and corresponded with them and her, so it stands to reason they knew English and, by now, she's spent a couple years with the Carpenters.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Con on August 03, 2018, 05:59:17 AM
I recently noticed a mistake in Zoo Day, it isn't a big one, but shouldn't Maggie's primary language have been Spanish?  We see her thoughts, they are in English, and she never appears to experience language barrier, confusion, or to search for words.  She may even still have a Hispanic accent.

I mean, it is reasonable that she may have learned some English wherever she was, but it certainly wasn't the primary language she used.  She would only have had to start using English when she moved in with the Carpenters.  There has been no discussion of language/culture issues, which is easily explained in most books by Harry being totally unaware of them, even if they existed.  But in this book we have her viewpoint, and there doesn't appear to be any acculturation issues.

Just a thought.

She mentions she can still speak SPanish but it's like her Brain has to switch gears.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Arjan on August 03, 2018, 03:16:47 PM
A bilingual upbringing can have its benefits.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Sydna on August 03, 2018, 10:39:12 PM
I didn't read it yet, but I believe he made the choice when he left the box of pups that was to be delivered to brother Wang. It would mean he chose to stay with Harry, who was reluctant to keep him and trying to send him back/give him to someone else at first.
Edit: Wong. Brother Wong..

It was Wang in the original story.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Gman on August 04, 2018, 08:58:25 AM
Molly without Harry would have become a warlock, then decapitated.  Her becoming the Winter Lady was based on her Choice to get involved with Leanansidhe.  As Jim said, the deals Sidhe make with you are designed to get you more, and more tangled up with them. 

It's not that Harry Dresden the man is a problem, it's that the world he lives in is so dangerous, and complicated.  If you spend time with someone like that you're bound to get dragged into that dangerous world.

I agree, just like dating James Bond is dangerous. Not because James Bond is a bad guy, but because he has so many dangerous enemies. Lots of his lovers get killed or go through some rough times.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: zetadog on August 28, 2018, 09:16:19 AM
is Austin a Sorcerer or a Wizard?  Do Wizards train Sorcerers as full apprentices? 
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: forumghost on August 28, 2018, 02:04:22 PM
I agree, just like dating James Bond is dangerous. Not because James Bond is a bad guy, but because he has so many dangerous enemies. Lots of his lovers get killed or go through some rough times.

As far as dating Harry goes, the bigger threat is the universe itself really.

Childhood sweetheart? "dies" to add to the Tragic Backstory.
Sexy Reporter? Critical case of Stupid causes her to become a half Rampire.
Hot Boss? Turns out it was Mind-Rape all alone.
BFF/Coworker? Jerks you around for a decade+ and then gets critically injured just as she finally ran out of excuses to continue stringing you along.
Literally every other woman he meets: Dies, is evil, or only wants him for his power.

Like, Harry's dating life is just a conga-line of tragedy and failure, and most of it isn't directly caused by all those enemies.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Mr. Death on August 28, 2018, 02:13:50 PM
is Austin a Sorcerer or a Wizard?  Do Wizards train Sorcerers as full apprentices?
The distinction is a little iffy -- from what I understand, a sorcerer is like a wizard without the formal training. A wizard means you're in some way recognized as one by the White Council -- there's mentions of trials and such; I think Jim's said that one basic guideline is they're able to do everything between evocation and thaumaturgy. They might have a specialization and/or suck at one or two, but they have the capability of doing it all.
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Mira on August 28, 2018, 02:28:18 PM



   I don't think Austin can be classified as wizard or sorcerer yet...  He hasn't any training one way or  another, even if self taught as Vincent Sells was, training/research is involved to become a sorcerer... He is on the verge of becoming a warlock though if he isn't already one from misusing his awakening talents and being used not trained to those ends...
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Snark Knight on August 30, 2018, 01:07:02 AM
The distinction is a little iffy -- from what I understand, a sorcerer is like a wizard without the formal training. A wizard means you're in some way recognized as one by the White Council -- there's mentions of trials and such; I think Jim's said that one basic guideline is they're able to do everything between evocation and thaumaturgy. They might have a specialization and/or suck at one or two, but they have the capability of doing it all.

Didn't GP say something about sorcerers are more limited in their range of abilities, and almost all skew towards destructive?
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: Kindler on August 31, 2018, 02:04:57 PM
Didn't GP say something about sorcerers are more limited in their range of abilities, and almost all skew towards destructive?
Listened to that bit this morning. Yes; Dresden says something like, "All they're good at is the nasty stuff."
Title: Re: Zoo Day spoilers
Post by: TheCuriousFan on September 02, 2018, 02:02:34 PM
The distinction is a little iffy -- from what I understand, a sorcerer is like a wizard without the formal training. A wizard means you're in some way recognized as one by the White Council -- there's mentions of trials and such; I think Jim's said that one basic guideline is they're able to do everything between evocation and thaumaturgy. They might have a specialization and/or suck at one or two, but they have the capability of doing it all.
Sorcerer is a specialist, typically of something destructive like curses or burning things. IIRC it's a bit of an insult to use the term for focused practitioners who aren't solely about hurting people.