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Messages - LostInTime

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121
DF Spoilers / Re: Are Fae Queens still mortals?
« on: April 14, 2021, 10:47:44 PM »
Free will does not mean that everything that happens to you is somehow your choice. Being born was not your choice.other people make choices too.

Sure with some verbal gymnastics you can say that Molly chose to go to the island or you can point to several other choices she made in the past that lead to it but often what happens to you is not your choice, only how you handle it. Molly decided to take the job seriously
This is the "Sins of the Father" argument. The children bear the weight of everything their parents do. There's no way to make a fresh start and vendettas never end.

122
DF Spoilers / Re: Are Fae Queens still mortals?
« on: April 14, 2021, 01:09:14 AM »
I'm wondering about the part choice plays in accepting a mantle.

Mother Winter - The only original fae queen. She's going to talk about who the sponsor was and how the mantles were created. Probably not until the BAT.
Mother Summer - Previously the Summer Queen, ascended when the OG Mother Summer retired, abdicated or was killed.
Titania - Current Summer Queen. Previously Summer Lady. We don't know how she got the mantle.
Mab - Current Winter Queen. Previously Winter Lady. We don't know how she got the mantle.
Aurora - Prior Summer Lady. Nfected. We don't know how she got her mantle.
Maeve - Prior Winter Lady. Nfected. We don't know how she got her mantle.
Lily - Prior Summer Lady, Prior Summer Knight. Aurora forced the Summer Knight mantle upon her. Then when Aurora was killed, she has the Summer Lady mantle forced on her as the closest suitable vessel for fae power.
Sarissa - Current Summer Lady. Had the mantle forced upon her when Lily was killed.
Molly - Current Winter Lady. Had the mantle forced upon her when Maeve was killed.

Of the three fae queen mantle transitions we've seen in the books, none of them were voluntary. None of the ladies have said, "Sure, give me this power, I want it." Lily didn't even say she wanted the Summer Knight mantle. Which seems inconsistent with Harry accepting the Winter Knight mantle and Fix the Summer Knight, but since Aurora was Nfected at the time, not impossible.

Lily, Sarissa and Molly had no choice. They also had no choice in whether or not they would deal with the fae courts. Sarissa and Lily because they were changelings. Molly because she was apprenticed to Harry, who was already involved with Leanansidhe because of something his mother had done. Again, no choice. Later, when Harry accepted the Winter Knight mantle, Molly had no choice in that. When Harry 'died' Leanansidhe took over training her in Harry's stead, because of the fae court's obligation to fulfill Harry's obligations. Again, no choice on Molly's part. Which led to her being forced to take the Winter Lady mantle as her association with Leanansidhe made her a suitable vessel for fae power.

I feel like I'm missing something, but choice has got to play a part in all of this. It's like choosing to pick up a denarius, or a sword.

(Sigh) Time for a re-read.

123
DF Spoilers / Are Fae Queens still mortals?
« on: April 13, 2021, 12:38:45 AM »
I’m not sure I’ve gotten all of this sorted out in my head, so I’m going to lay it out here. Feel free to jump on and correct any inaccuracies.
Back in pre-history, The White God told all of the other gods to vamoose. Give up your immortality and live on, or keep it and have nothing more to do with mortals.

Someone, probably Hecate, maybe the Norns, instead of giving up their mortality, sponsored the fae. The fae, who had historically been the foot soldiers defending the Outer Gates, the keepers of the Outer Gates got a promotion. Their sponsor split their immortality into at least 8 mantles, 6 immortal, two not. Set up the two fae courts, one, Winter, to lead the defense of the Outer Gates, and one, Summer, to defend reality against the Winter court.

But, and this is important, The two tripartite divisions that are the fae queens, are still immortal. And The White God’s edict still holds true, their power was ordered to stop messing with humanity, so they cannot truck with mortals. In Summer Knight it’s described as fae queens cannot directly interfere with or kill anyone who isn’t attached to the courts through birthright or bargain. They they can do so indirectly with trickery, guile or glamor. Mortals, however, can still deal with them, since free will trumps everything. Free will allows mortals to deal with Outsiders, it certainly allows them to deal with fae.

It’s my theory, although not confirmed, that the fae queens must always be mortal when endowed with a mantle. Titania and Mab are sisters. Mab revealed to Harry that she was mortal once. Logically, that means so was Titania. At best they were changelings, but unless they’d chosen fae before they were endowed with their mantles, they would still be considered mortal. Aurora, Maeve and Sarissa were their daughters, arguably making them changelings, but if my theory that follows is correct, that’s not so cut and dried. Lily was a changeling, but she hadn’t selected her fae heritage yet when Aurora endowed her with the Summer Knight mantle and turned her into a statue. When Aurora died, She was endowed with the Summer Lady mantle, while still a mortal, albeit one wearing a mantle. Molly, of course, was fully mortal when she was endowed with the Winter Lady mantle.

The mantles that are not immortal, went to the knights, the hatchet men for the fae courts. These are mortals who the fae can sick on other mortals, to kill or hurt. Because the fae queens are constrained by The White God’s edict. Sure, the knights also will bring the pain to the fae, but what sets them apart from the other fae mantle wearers is their ability to kill mortals.

Run of the mill fae can interact with, kidnap, kill mortals. We saw that all the way back in Restoration of Faith with the troll. Jenny Greenteeth would have killed Billy and allowed Georgia to sleep on. Phobophages, Malks, Rawbones, Trolls, you name it, they have all threatened or outright killed mortals all the way through the books.

But the fae queens can’t.

In Summer Knight, Slate, in cahoots with Aurora, kills Ronald Rheul, the Summer Knight. No problem there, knights are supposed to kill mortals. Aurora buys it at the hands of Harry’s minions. Essentially her death is at Harry’s hands. He might have been doing the slicing and dicing with the bane, but with fae logic, he was responsible. The run of the mill fae that wielded the box cutters, again, had no issue killing her.
Loyd Slate’s betrayal of Mab is also revealed in Summer Knight. But, instead of killing him and allowing the Knight’s mantle to flow back to her, she takes him prisoner and tortures him for years.

In Changes, Mab doesn’t kill Loyd Slate, Harry does.

Fast forward to Cold Days. Harry believes that Mab is trying to kill him over 77 days. But most of those attempts are through predators, traps or fae. She only tries once with a pillow and once with a shotgun. Harry, pre-Winter Knight, could have protected himself from a shotgun.
Mab orders Harry to kill Maeve because Mab believes Maeve is Nfected. Mab had previously cured Leanansidhe of Nfection. So, why didn’t Mab just do the same thing to Maeve, her own daughter in order to spare her life?

Because, even if Maeve was wearing a fae queen mantle, she’s still mortal. The mantle makes her into a high sidhe. The mantle is what doesn’t allow her to lie, normally. The mantle gives her the vulnerability to the bane. Just as the mantle endows her with immortality. And Kringle tells us later that mantles can be worn, exchanged or discarded. Which would imply that in order to exchange or discard a mantle, you have to possess free will.

The Nfection counters the mantle and allows Maeve to lie. It also allows her to kill Lily. Maeve is, in turn, killed by Karin.
In Peace Talks and Battle Ground, the Fomor servitors don’t get the mortal protection because they are involved with the Fomor, who are involved with the fae courts. Molly, Maeve, Sarissa and Titania are allowed to kill them with impunity.

In The Good People, Mab encourages Molly to let her mortality die. Molly responds by getting in Mab's face. Instead of bouncing her head off a solid object as Mab has done with Harry in the past, she accedes to Molly's wishes and lets her be.

I can’t think of any time in any of the books or short stories where a fae queen has killed or injured a mortal that is not involved in some way with the fae courts, either directly or through the Unseelie Accords. I think there's a strong possibility that the fae queens, with the possible exception of the only original queen, Mother Winter, may all have been, and still are, mortal.

Comments? Corrections? Amplifications? Thoughts?

124
Odin has soulfire. He can make things real. Per WOJ, that's how he reunites body and soul to create Einherjar.

Jim has also said that Athena was a spirit of intellect that leapt out of Zeus' head, just like Bonea in Harry's head. Zeus made a body for her and fused her spirit with the body.

Odin could make a body, fuse Karin's spirit into it, and make a Valkyrie. Karin's Valkyrie would be a 'sister' to Sigrun and Freydis. And she might or might not look anything like Karin.

125
Hell, Mab wouldn't do it because Mab would have to balance the scales.

She's a faerie. Killing Charity would incur a massive debt to the entire Carpenter family.

For one thing, she'd probably be on the hook for raising the rest of the Jawas, which would either result in a Evil Stepmother scenario or a hilarious sitcom plot about a faerie queen adapting to life in the 'burbs- possibly both.

I would watch the Hell out of that sitcom. And I don't like sitcoms.

126
If he wants revenge bad enough to do that he has Harry and Molly's phone numbers and neither of them would mind getting nasty with whoever killed Charity. The coins just aren't that tempting to people who have other options.

You're not thinking Jim enough. What if Charity dies because of something Mab does? Harry and Molly would be powerless to raise a hand against her because all Mab would have to do is command them not to. Michael would be on his own.

127
Obviously the only person who should take up a coin should be Michael.

Because it's such a Jim thing to do. Michael, lost, angry, desiring revenge. Perhaps if Charity were to be killed it would be enough.

128
DF Spoilers / Molly in Cold Case
« on: March 31, 2021, 01:45:26 AM »
Something jumped out at me in a line from the end of Cold Case.

Quote
Winter law showed me a vivid image. An endless war fought at the far borders of reality. A war against the pitiless alien menace known simply as the Outsiders. A war fought by millions of fae to prevent the Outsiders from invading and destroying reality itself. A war so long and bitter that bones of fallen were the topography of the landscape. It was why the Winter Court existed in the first place. Why we were so aggressive, so savage, so filled with lust and the need to create more of our kind.

This is right after Molly was saddled with the Winter Lady mantle. That last line, "Why we were so aggressive... the need to create more of our kind."

I was mulling this over on a drive tonight and thinking if it was the inclusive 'We' or the Royal 'We'. The Royal We would be bad, but not terrible. Just Molly acknowledging that she is part of the ruling family of Winter fae. But when I got home and read it again, I realized that it is the inclusive 'We', because of the 'our' that follows it.

Right after she had the mantle thrust upon her, she was self-identifying as a Winter fae.

129
DF Spoilers / Re: Jim on Molly's future
« on: March 29, 2021, 02:44:12 AM »
I think the mantles require holders to be mortal, not fae. The knights are always mortal. Titania and Mab were sisters and Mab drops that she was mortal in BG. Aurora was Titania's daughter, either before or after she took the mantle, so she's a question mark. Sarissa and Maever were Mab's daughters, per WOJ, by an Austrian composer in the 1800s. So, half mortal. Molly was fully human.

There's a strong argument that the leaders of the fae courts, guardians of reality, have to be mortal. I.E. have a strong connection to reality.

130
DF Spoilers / Re: Mother Winter and Mother Summer Are the Same, Right?
« on: March 23, 2021, 03:22:54 AM »
Jim has said recently that the fae courts had a sponsor to become the guardians of the Outer Gates. That sponsor set up the courts and created the mantles.

He's also said that Mother Summer has been replaced once, either was killed or retired. Mother Winter is the OG Mother Winter and the only fae queen who was around when the courts were set up. She could be the original sponsor wearing one of the mantles to retain immortality. I believe Jim will use her as a conduit to tell the tale of the origin of the courts.

Thankfully he's also said that the fae courts will be the last guardians of the Outer Gates. Which I take to mean that they will no longer be needed and the fae courts and mantles will be destroyed by the end of the BAT.

131
DF Spoilers / Re: Jim on Molly's future
« on: March 17, 2021, 06:51:59 PM »
Unless Leah played Mab.....  Think about it..  Who could possibly replace Mab if Molly isn't ready?  Leah....  She's #2 to Mab in power level.  She's the next option behind Molly.

It hasn't been shown yet, but every lady who has taken a mantle has been at least part mortal. We don't know what Aurora's origin was. But Maeve and Sarissa's father, according to a WOJ was an Austrian composer in the 1800s. Molly, of course, was fully human.

I'm not sure that Lea is qualified to be a lady.

132
DF Spoilers / Re: Jim on Molly's future
« on: March 17, 2021, 06:49:44 PM »
And did he save Susan?
Exactly the point I was making.

133
Shapeshifting, water magic, earth magic.

134
DF Spoilers / Re: Jim on Molly's future
« on: March 12, 2021, 10:51:57 PM »
Well, the fae courts are done as guardians of the Outer Gates, per WOJ, by the end of the series. I don't know if that's a good or evil harbinger for our heroes. Jim might also be lying to us.

135
DF Spoilers / Jim on Molly's future
« on: March 12, 2021, 03:00:19 AM »
In the Pennsacon WOJ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA6hcE5-YCA Jim says that
Quote
...Though Molly's sort of... her story path is not... it's not towards being familiar and human...

I gotta say, this has killed a lot of my investment in the books. I'm not concerned about Harry. He gets battered and bruised, but it's the people around him that always wind up paying. If Molly falls to Winter completely, I'm out. I will be Farcry 5, GOT Season 8 pissed. Harry promised to get out of Winter and bring Molly with him. Just like he promised to save Susan.

Harry is turning into the Destroyer. But it's his friend's lives he destroys.

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