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McAnally's (The Community Pub) => Author Craft => Topic started by: Zuriel on June 25, 2012, 04:09:41 PM
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So, I had this conversation with a relative not long ago, and it sort of bugged me. I told her I'd written some fanfiction (how I started out writing), and she answered by saying, well, you should try writing your own story one day. And I argued back that the story is mine, that I'm just using a particularly character in a original story of my own design with completely original characters sprinkled in, but she didn't seem to think of it that way.
I thought over what she said, went back and read my stories...and they could all fit in the original category, if I changed the names - and no one would be the wiser. ;)
What do you think? Do you give any credence to fanfiction, consider it on par with other fiction? Or do you consider it a level down?
It was a good place for me to start...
Just curious what others think.
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I'm not much into fanfiction, but, like all other fiction, its legitimacy is entirely dependent on the individual work. Consider, for example, all the fantasy compilations out there where multiple authors are given a common world to write in (e.g., Thieves' World); it seems pretty much parallel to fanfic, in that they're using other people's creations, but given that they're pro authors and they get praised for their work in those compilations, that makes it sound as legit as anything else.
Still, for someone trying to make a name for himself, it would seem more effective to do so for his own story, not someone else's. Yes, there's plenty of awful fanfic out there, but there's also a lot of awful pro fiction, so quality has no direct correlation to that question of "originality". So, again, it's an individual thing and what the writer DOES with it.
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Depends. I've read some fanfiction that's better than a lot of published stuff, and some that's utter crapola. I think ultimately that creating your own characters and setting is a lot more rewarding (and difficult!) but as long as you respect any rules the original creator may have, and don't do anything dumb like try to sell it on Amazon, I don't see any real harm. It can be good practice and a lot of fun.
Also, bear in mind that a few writers of original fiction (PN Elrod and Peter David come to mind) got their start in fanfic. If you stick to public domain characters, you can publish without fear of litigation--I've read an excellent series of mysteries that are basically Shakespeare fanfic. And don't forget the Fifty Shades of Grey trilogy, which is actually Twilight fanfiction with the names changed (I haven't read this, so I can't speak for the quality, but it is very popular.)
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I'm not much into fanfiction, but, like all other fiction, its legitimacy is entirely dependent on the individual work. Consider, for example, all the fantasy compilations out there where multiple authors are given a common world to write in (e.g., Thieves' World); it seems pretty much parallel to fanfic, in that they're using other people's creations, but given that they're pro authors and they get praised for their work in those compilations, that makes it sound as legit as anything else.
Still, for someone trying to make a name for himself, it would seem more effective to do so for his own story, not someone else's. Yes, there's plenty of awful fanfic out there, but there's also a lot of awful pro fiction, so quality has no direct correlation to that question of "originality". So, again, it's an individual thing and what the writer DOES with it.
That's pretty much the way I look at it. I'm just gather ammunition to bop my relative over the head with. Good fiction, to me, comes in any form, whether it's a professional/published author or an unknown fanfic writer. If it's good it's good. I heard about one person who wrote such good fanfic the person was asked to write for the TV show, which did happen and eventually he/she became a producer, I believe. That's very rare, but it does happen. And just because an author or any creative person does good work the majority of the time, doesn't mean their stuff isn't gonna stink at some point.
Depends. I've read some fanfiction that's better than a lot of published stuff, and some that's utter crapola. I think ultimately that creating your own characters and setting is a lot more rewarding (and difficult!) but as long as you respect any rules the original creator may have, and don't do anything dumb like try to sell it on Amazon, I don't see any real harm. It can be good practice and a lot of fun.
Also, bear in mind that a few writers of original fiction (PN Elrod and Peter David come to mind) got their start in fanfic. If you stick to public domain characters, you can publish without fear of litigation--I've read an excellent series of mysteries that are basically Shakespeare fanfic. And don't forget the Fifty Shades of Grey trilogy, which is actually Twilight fanfiction with the names changed (I haven't read this, so I can't speak for the quality, but it is very popular.)
I have no urge to be published, just a fun gig for me, but as you say, venturing into your own original characters and stories is ultimately more satisfying.
There was a case I knew of recently where someone published their work on Amazon and it turned out to be someone else's story (several people who knew the original author spotted it and voiced their complaints...and it was immediately removed). But you always run the risk of writing a story that is similar to someone else's, but given the same set of ideas, no one really writes the same story as the next person.
Ugh. I hadn't heard about Fifty Shades of Grey being a knock-off of Twilight. Hmm...thought about reading it, just because it was getting so much hype, but may have to skip that one. :-\
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Fan Fiction is real writing. Just practice I think, though. A creative outlet.
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^
Practice is practice whether original or fanfic.
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I think fan-fiction can be, in some ways at least, Easier than more fully original works. But thats just because somebody else did parts of the work for you (developing a world, a character, etc). That doesnt make it anything less. Shared worlds are common in fiction, so are shared characters. Look at any of the Star Trek, Star Wars, Forgotten Realms, Hardy Boys, or Darkover novels, or any historical fiction for that matter; every one of them borrows from existing sources for characters, setting, or both.
To my way of thinking, most fiction outside of the Sci-fi/Fantasy Genre falls into that category to some degree, because they all borrow an existing world for the setting (IE the "real world") rather than make their own from Scratch. If I want to tell a story from a thief's POV, how does it make the story less legit by setting it in Mos Eisley (star wars reference) instead of the streets of New York City? My answer is that it doesn't.
The flip side of that is that you want to still be contributing. But the more you borrow, the less of an origianl work it is by nature. A story written in the DV but in an unrelated time and place it one thing. Or if its contemporary, but only mentions events in the background, thats perfectly fine, you are just borrowing the world. On the other hand if its a story about Harry and Murphy fighting Vampires, Im just adding events to an existing Character set, world setting and system; im just contributing the episode of the week. Somewhere in the middle would be if it was taking minor but established character and putting them center stage, like the adventures of Susan or Carlos or Elaine, or McCoy's childhood or something.
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I found it to be a useful learning tool, trying to capture the Voice of iconic characters for example. I think it helped me a great deal in portraying my original characters and learning to keep their voices consistent. It's a creative exercise, great practice, and to be honest great fun, although I find original work to be more gratifying. I'll keep doing both, because writing is how you learn to write, and I'm just plain having a grand time.
As for it's "artistic merit", that's like any creative endeavor, in the eye of the beholder. I'm a too each-their-own sort of fellow, after all. But I confess, as a matter of personal taste (not a value judgement), I get kind of skeevety feeling when I see stuff where people are someone else's characters to places where those characters wouldn't go. (Kirk/Spock/Data threesomes, for example.) I don't like seeing characters "re-imagined" in a way that makes them something far removed from their original concept. Now, a respectful update or reboot that keeps the spirit of the original is, to me at least, a Good Thing. (BBC's Sherlock being an example of a great update, and the new Star Trek as a good reboot.)
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If you wanted to write episodic TV - fanfic is actually a great way to practice.
Because you have to know how the standard characters talk and behave.
If you get it wrong - you won't sell your script or if you do - they'll rewrite the snot out of it.
I know an AFI writing teacher and even if she doesn't watch a series - if one of her students
does a script for that show as a class exercise - she makes it a point to then watch a couple
of episodes so she knows whether or not they're doing it right.
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That's something I'm going to have to experiment with once I get a handle on basic story planning and telling.
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I think you've got a great handle on it already, PG.
And if I can help anyway with script stuff - let me know.
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Thanks, Snow!
Let me get Stormjammer done and we'll take a look.
maybe Sky One...... ???
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Thanks to everyone who responded!
And I think as writers, we all pretty much agree on the same things, which I suspected would be the case. I just wanted to have a weightier comeback for my relative on the subject. I don't think she realizes she does the same thing when she paints. Most of the time she has to have an image or photo to copy, maybe adding a few of her own original touches, but ultimately she's no different. Sounds like visual fanfic to me. :) I need to point that out...
I don't mind fanfic as long as it stays within canon limits and doesn't wander off into unrecognizable territory. And for me it was great practice to see if I could give the established, iconic characters the same voice in my stories as they're known for. I got that down pretty good and then worked on my own original characters. Both are fun to do in their own ways.
Since I'm relatively new to this writing thing, I still have a lot to learn, but at least I can look back at what I did months ago and see a big improvement. And practice, practice, practice will only make it better.
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My rational opinion, fwiw, is that fanfic can be a good way of learning some writing-associated skills in a context where others are provided for you (pre-existing worlds and characters and so on) but that sticking with it long term is holding yourself back from developing other skills (such as original worldbuilding). And that there are no ethical issues with fanfic of a) authors who have given permission, b) authors who are dead, and c) widely shared universes (such as DC Comics), but otherwise it can feel like theft.
(I have an irrational opinion too, which is that if anyone ever fanfics anything of mine I will come after them with harmful intent and a sharpened teaspoon.)
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I prefer to read AU: Alternate Universe fan fics. It makes it feel less like an intrusion on the original Auther.
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My rational opinion, fwiw, is that fanfic can be a good way of learning some writing-associated skills in a context where others are provided for you (pre-existing worlds and characters and so on) but that sticking with it long term is holding yourself back from developing other skills (such as original worldbuilding). And that there are no ethical issues with fanfic of a) authors who have given permission, b) authors who are dead, and c) widely shared universes (such as DC Comics), but otherwise it can feel like theft.
(I have an irrational opinion too, which is that if anyone ever fanfics anything of mine I will come after them with harmful intent and a sharpened teaspoon.)
If a writer has no further ambition, it doesn't mean they aren't improving if they stick to fanfic...but I would think most progress to their own creations as they learn, gather knowledge and information to form their own characters and worlds as a challenge to themselves.
And the keyword is permission. Most fanfic writers abide by the wishes of the original creators, if they are ethical at all, and don't infringe on those who don't want anyone to mess with their works.
And the majority of fanfic is harmless, intent on adding further enjoyment to an already-established creation. And it can be worldbuilding, especially in UF, since you can add traveling to new dimensions of your own design, which leads to original characters and settings within that dimension. I especially like adding these aspects to my writing as I've always found other worlds a fountain of possibilities, though I tend not to include a lot of science fiction elements, which just, personally, don't appeal to me all that much...preferring a good mix of just about everything else. I guess I'm a little tired of flying saucers and robotic creatures (I'm over Star Trek and the like) and gravitate toward the magical and mystical sides of the universe as they interact and influence the real world. For now. :)
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It comes down to this: is the fanfic-writing the person's hobby or is it a step in a greater dream? If it's a hobby, we have no place criticizing them for doing it. To tell the truth, we have no place criticizing them even if it IS supposed to be a stepping-stone; people have their own paths to follow, and not everyone is supposed to share the same path.
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Thanks to everyone who responded!
And I think as writers, we all pretty much agree on the same things, which I suspected would be the case. I just wanted to have a weightier comeback for my relative on the subject. I don't think she realizes she does the same thing when she paints. Most of the time she has to have an image or photo to copy, maybe adding a few of her own original touches, but ultimately she's no different. Sounds like visual fanfic to me. :) I need to point that out...
I don't mind fanfic as long as it stays within canon limits and doesn't wander off into unrecognizable territory. And for me it was great practice to see if I could give the established, iconic characters the same voice in my stories as they're known for. I got that down pretty good and then worked on my own original characters. Both are fun to do in their own ways.
Since I'm relatively new to this writing thing, I still have a lot to learn, but at least I can look back at what I did months ago and see a big improvement. And practice, practice, practice will only make it better.
I started with fanfic then moved into trying scripts (very different than prose) and also 'filing off the serial numbers' as they say and turning my fanfic prose into something original. Great practice and fun.
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I haven't read all the other posts but in my opinion I would say yes it can be. I know from personal experience that writing using other people's characters or universe, can be just as hard as using your own. But at the same time how many fanfic writers try to get better or work at making their stories the best? I know some do. In fact some pros writers started in fanfic. But other fanfic writers just write what they have in mind. They either don't care or don't know about the rules-guidelines-better techniques of writing. So I'm not sure what they do is real writing.
Much fanfic is illegal even though some published writers don't care if you write in their universes while others do.
I would love to write in Butcher's Dresden universe, without his characters though. Come to think of it, that could be harder writing because you have to keep in mind his rules and any "canon" he wouldn't want changed.
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Is it writing? Yes.
Should it be marketable? No.(But it has been.)
I mean, at some point I plan on writing a crossover between my conventions mascots, Alien, Predator, and Avatar. Because it would be hilarious. I wrote a really good Name of the Wind mock-fanfiction and run a panel where I read bad fanfics to people. That said, I would never call it professional writing(professional being defined as something I would put in a writing resume style thing.)
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Well from my crass commercial viewpoint, how much are you getting paid for it? Grin.
My wife and I write in a shared universe, but we are paid pro rates, that is SFWA qualifying rates in a qualified market.
I think it all comes down to the quality of the work, if you are wondering about a story, file the serial numbers off (make it not conflict with the owned, and copyrighted plot or protagonists) and submit it.
There are lots of markets out there and they buy stuff on surprisingly regular basis.
Regards,
Kevin
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Well from my crass commercial viewpoint, how much are you getting paid for it? Grin.
My wife and I write in a shared universe, but we are paid pro rates, that is SFWA qualifying rates in a qualified market.
I think it all comes down to the quality of the work, if you are wondering about a story, file the serial numbers off (make it not conflict with the owned, and copyrighted plot or protagonists) and submit it.
There are lots of markets out there and they buy stuff on surprisingly regular basis.
Regards,
Kevin
I was going to say something similar to Kevin's comments...except the shared universe with his wife. But I had a Fanfiic story published legally. Sometimes someone will allow it. Star Trek did it, Dr. Who did it, I think a couple of games have, David Weber has but you had to be specifically invited in his case. I wish Butcher would. I understand why he doesn't but I still wish he would work something out.
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I was going to say something similar to Kevin's comments...except the shared universe with his wife. But I had a Fanfiic story published legally. Sometimes someone will allow it. Star Trek did it, Dr. Who did it, I think a couple of games have, David Weber has but you had to be specifically invited in his case. I wish Butcher would. I understand why he doesn't but I still wish he would work something out.
Me too. I understand completely not wanting to let other people futz around with your creation, but from a purely Fan point of view, I just want more from my favorite worlds; it would be nice if Alera were to open up to other Authors to tell stories in, since JB says he doesn't expect to return to it any time soon. That is certainly a world big enough to tell multiple sotries.
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Speaking as someone who started with Fanfiction, it's a way to get a handle on the writing without having to worldbuild your own universe. I prefer to stick as close as I could to the source, but there are plenty of AUs out there, some are okay, others are "Why bother? Just change the names and it's an original story!"
Started with anime, moved into Battletech fanfiction, then into writing Battletech and getting paid for it. I've learn alot about writing during this time and I building my own original world in an Urban fantasy setting and have two half-written novels and a short story done. But it was fanfiction where I started, and if I find something in fanfiction worth reading, I will read it.
There's one website that has managed to take bits of many anime, scifi, and comics and creating its own universe. I mean where else can you read about Utena Tenjo fight a Bajorian Jedi knight in a rose duel, cheered on by a teenage Bobo Fett and The Teeen Titians' Koriand'r..... ;D
Craig
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Me too. I understand completely not wanting to let other people futz around with your creation, but from a purely Fan point of view, I just want more from my favorite worlds;
Hmm. Interesting reaction, because when I really enjoy a world and think it's done well, I tend not to want more in it by anyone other than the original writer; because the better and more complex a fictional world is, the less likely any other writer is to Get It well enough for their attempts to follow through not to disappoint. (I base this on a number of tribute anthologies to things like Sandman and Elric and the War of the Worlds, each of which, that I recall, had one or two good stories among an avalanche of unsatisfying ones.)
I suppose that could be an argument for good writers fanficcing unsatisfying universes to make them better, but I think I'd rather have original stuff from the good writers in question.
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Hmm. Interesting reaction, because when I really enjoy a world and think it's done well, I tend not to want more in it by anyone other than the original writer; because the better and more complex a fictional world is, the less likely any other writer is to Get It well enough for their attempts to follow through not to disappoint. (I base this on a number of tribute anthologies to things like Sandman and Elric and the War of the Worlds, each of which, that I recall, had one or two good stories among an avalanche of unsatisfying ones.)
I suppose that could be an argument for good writers fanficcing unsatisfying universes to make them better, but I think I'd rather have original stuff from the good writers in question.
Fair enough, I suppose I was assuming that the new material would remain faithful and/or up to par. This would be easier to do with an invitational type of situation, as opposed to a tribute situation where the Original Author has little or no input. If, for example, one of Jim's Beta-Foo were to do an Alera spin-off, Id forsee them having a good perspective on the material from their involvement in the original publishing, as well as enough open communication with the Author that they could conceivably do it fair justice.
Along a Similar vein, I thought the Idea of Brandon Sanderson taking over the WOT could have been a trainwreck, but he has guidance from Jordan's editor/wife, and his additions to the series are at least as good as the originals. Granted that is swinging pretty wide of what Id call "Fan-fiction"
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If, for example, one of Jim's Beta-Foo were to do an Alera spin-off, Id forsee them having a good perspective on the material from their involvement in the original publishing, as well as enough open communication with the Author that they could conceivably do it fair justice.
Are you insane? If one of us got hold of it, what resulted would likely be the story of Tavi and Kitai's second son, Gluteus Snarkius.
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Are you insane? If one of us got hold of it, what resulted would likely be the story of Tavi and Kitai's second son, Gluteus Snarkius.
...I'd read it
8)
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Fair enough, I suppose I was assuming that the new material would remain faithful and/or up to par. This would be easier to do with an invitational type of situation, as opposed to a tribute situation where the Original Author has little or no input. If, for example, one of Jim's Beta-Foo were to do an Alera spin-off, Id forsee them having a good perspective on the material from their involvement in the original publishing, as well as enough open communication with the Author that they could conceivably do it fair justice.
Along a Similar vein, I thought the Idea of Brandon Sanderson taking over the WOT could have been a trainwreck, but he has guidance from Jordan's editor/wife, and his additions to the series are at least as good as the originals. Granted that is swinging pretty wide of what Id call "Fan-fiction"
If you are doing fanfic online than you can pretty much do what you want. But if you do it with the permission of the copyright owner they can control what you put in. Star Trek-universal-was strict about canon and what made up canon, and I assume David Weber is also. Of course if you opened it up too wide you would need readers to watch for any uncanon scenes or anything new that took the storyline in a direction the creator doesn't want since they wouldn't have time to read all the stories. Star Trek being its own special case. And they did have an editor watching for that.
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Hmm. Interesting reaction, because when I really enjoy a world and think it's done well, I tend not to want more in it by anyone other than the original writer; because the better and more complex a fictional world is, the less likely any other writer is to Get It well enough for their attempts to follow through not to disappoint. (I base this on a number of tribute anthologies to things like Sandman and Elric and the War of the Worlds, each of which, that I recall, had one or two good stories among an avalanche of unsatisfying ones.)
I suppose that could be an argument for good writers fanficcing unsatisfying universes to make them better, but I think I'd rather have original stuff from the good writers in question.
I disagree that fans do not "get it" well enough to write a fanfic if its too complex. Many of them are obsessive students of the story and thereby know it backwards and forwards. Sometimes the creator purposefully leaves an event/situation or character and/or his behavior open-ended for further contemplation (especially, but not exclusive, to episodic TV), plus fans desire to extrapolate on what could have happened before, in between or after x, y or z. All the answers are not there. And I have yet to find many stories that completely satisfied me - and I'm surely not the only one who feels this way - not to mention the others who just like the challenge of creating an addition, like filling in the blanks, to a story they really enjoyed, not necessarily to make it better, per se. Good writers are not immune to making bad choices, usually messing up a good thing when their egos begin to inflate and they believe everything they write is golden. Oh, contraire. :-\
Fanfic, to me, is quite the compliment to a writer, that the author's story is so well thought of that people want more. It doesn't mean the fanfic writer didn't like the story and wrote his own story to subvert the original. Quite the opposite in most cases.
I have run into a few people who don't read fanfic because they don't want to get "confused" over what's canon and what is not...which seems rather bizaare to me, as these people are very well-versed in the stories, and I would think they are highly aware of what actually took place in the original work. It's their perogative, but a rather flimsy excuse.
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There are several things to remember:
1) Most fanfiction is written for enjoyment of the writer and a few others and will never reach the quality of "professional" writing.
2) There is a lot of crap disguised as fanfiction out there and sometimes you want to scream in frustration as the writer has no idea about what they're doing.
3) If you see that an anime fanfiction is rated as a lemon, that means it has SSC and is NSFW.
4) There is WAY too much Dragonball (37,145), Inuyasha (103,915), and Naruto (304,210) fanfiction stories out there (Numbers from Fanfiction.net) ;D
Craig
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I disagree that fans do not "get it" well enough to write a fanfic if its too complex.
I don't necessarily mean if it's too complex, at all. (Though don't start me on Homestuck fandom.) I mean more, there's a lot of fanfic out there that takes any number of interesting relationships at very precise levels of emotional weight and realisms and turns them into.. banging the Barbie dolls together. (Rather a lot of Aubrey/Maturin fanfic tends to be a particularly vile quagmire in this direction, frex.)
And I have yet to find many stories that completely satisfied me
I've found quite a number that have, myself, which is pleasing. And the ones that don't... I am usually motivated to move on from, or sometimes to write something that is to some degree a response (at the level that The Forever War is a response to Starship Troopers), but actually trying to "fix" or expand one someone else's universe doesn't do it for me. At the end of the day, it's not my baby, and the brood of stories I have of my own are quite demanding enough.
Good writers are not immune to making bad choices, usually messing up a good thing when their egos begin to inflate and they believe everything they write is golden.
I think you may be using a different definition of "good writer" from me, here.
Fanfic, to me, is quite the compliment to a writer, that the author's story is so well thought of that people want more. It doesn't mean the fanfic writer didn't like the story and wrote his own story to subvert the original. Quite the opposite in most cases.
I would see subverting as kind of more respectful, actually. At least it's indicating that you've given the source material some critical thought, rather than just wanting to turn out more of the same.
I have run into a few people who don't read fanfic because they don't want to get "confused" over what's canon and what is not...which seems rather bizaare to me, as these people are very well-versed in the stories, and I would think they are highly aware of what actually took place in the original work. It's their perogative, but a rather flimsy excuse.
One of the fundamental things here seems to me that, certainly IME writing and in the experience of pretty much everyone I know who writes, there's a great deal more detail about the world in a writer's mind and notes, however they manage that, than shows up in the actual novels. (We have plenty of WoJs alluding to things which have not made it into the DF novels or stories, for example.) And no matter how well a fan knows a published text, they can only extrapolate from the above-water portion of the iceberg.
(That latter para in the context of fanficcing works of individual authors; again, shared universes like Star Trek feel to me to be in a different space. I'm not drawn to Star Trek fanfic because I find that universe morally unpleasant and kind of dull - and as literary responses go, thinking about the Prime Directive as a piece of morality one finds unpleasant is an acknowledged major influence on Iain Banks' Culture novels, which i am far happier to have in the world than a comparable volume of additional Trek fanfic.)
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I don't necessarily mean if it's too complex, at all. (Though don't start me on Homestuck fandom.) I mean more, there's a lot of fanfic out there that takes any number of interesting relationships at very precise levels of emotional weight and realisms and turns them into.. banging the Barbie dolls together. (Rather a lot of Aubrey/Maturin fanfic tends to be a particularly vile quagmire in this direction, frex.)
This made me think of something almost on topic that I want to share anyway. For those of you who dont watch much Anime, there is a deaded phenomenon called the Filler Arc, that we all despise. Let me explain: the majority of anime's out there began as Manga's, which is a fancy way to say weekly serial comic book. This is generally the testing ground, and the popular ones are taken and animated. But in some cases the manga continues on a weekly basis, same as the anime. And since neither miss more that a handful of weeks each year (no half year seasons over there), and the anime can usually cover much more material in a 1/2 hour episode than the manga would each week, the Anime will eventually catch up to the Manga. When this happens they will either branch completely, or the anime will enter the dread realm of the Filler Arc. This is where a secondary team are given the task to fill the screen with something their audience might find somewhat entertaining, while everyone waits it out for the Manga, and the original Creator of the whole thing) to gain some distance over the anime. What this means is a few weeks, months, or even years (damn you naruto) where there is basically an imposter puppetting the characters (like barbie dolls), but completely ignoring the ongoing character developments, and being unable to do anything that will have a lasting impact since they cannot disagree with what the mange will have done, once they get back to the real story lines. It makes a mess of the timelines, and defaults all the characters back to the same interactions and development they had at the very beginning.
Yarg, I say!
ok, what were we talking about?
One of the fundamental things here seems to me that, certainly IME writing and in the experience of pretty much everyone I know who writes, there's a great deal more detail about the world in a writer's mind and notes, however they manage that, than shows up in the actual novels. (We have plenty of WoJs alluding to things which have not made it into the DF novels or stories, for example.) And no matter how well a fan knows a published text, they can only extrapolate from the above-water portion of the iceberg.
(That latter para in the context of fanficcing works of individual authors; again, shared universes like Star Trek feel to me to be in a different space. I'm not drawn to Star Trek fanfic because I find that universe morally unpleasant and kind of dull - and as literary responses go, thinking about the Prime Directive as a piece of morality one finds unpleasant is an acknowledged major influence on Iain Banks' Culture novels, which i am far happier to have in the world than a comparable volume of additional Trek fanfic.)
This is why I love it when a world releases a tabletop RPG, because it it gives the author a chance to release as much of that extra material as possible (barring spoilery stuff) in a way that they dont always have time or opportunity in the main works. Thats assuming the author works closely with the RPG dev team and confidently call it cannon. Star Wars did this, DF has. Ive seen some others with RPG rulebooks like WOT, but that was a generic writup on top of a basic d20 system, it really didnt give you anything that wasnt already fully explained in the books. And then there are things like Forgotten Realms novels where you can almost hear the dice rolling when the do certain things, and they would go to great lengths to explain away changes that were made for game balance.
Fun times...
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I guess there's nothing wrong with Fanfiction, so long as its legal, as mentioned before etc.
Personally if I wasn't writing independent works, I would write fanfic with the intent to get into a continuing world, as those mentioned, Forgotton Realms, Warhammer, etc. If not I would probably not write it.
I'd rather write my own stuff and tend to have a slightly negative feeling about mucking around in another author's world without express permission. But that's mostly just me. Same as I don't like reading series books out of order or reading prequels.
The Deposed King
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it is what ever you are confitable with and want to write
(oviusly as long as it is legal )
i have read so very good fanfic in the made an art section
but have never written any my self
but would like to see if i could try one day
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Battlecorps.com is always looking for writers -- Of course, you have to really know the Battletech universe and the fiction style they're looking for. But if you have both, and can write a good story, they're always looking for new writers (THat's how I got started... ;D)
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You're asking this on the forums of a guy who put an elaborately disguised Pokemon vs. Zerg fanfic on the best seller list? People always bring up 50 shades, why not Codex Alera? Going back further, any retelling of Arthurian mythos, or anyone who writes a new version of the Odyssey is essentially doing fanfic. Just because the ideas are not original doesn't mean it isn't "real writing."
I think the only problem is when people try to cleave too close to canon, particularly with ongoing series where as new information develops, they end up altering their vision to fit with the new material. That puts great constraints on your creativity and often causes logical knots as people try to change their work to reflect changes in another work.
I'm actually rewriting a fanfic of mine into an original work. What I'm doing is definitely "real writing," at least to me. At this point it still bears a lot of resemblance to the original piece, but it's rapidly evolving into something new. I'm no longer worrying about making it fit with canon because it's not the same. The fact that it was once a fanfic was just a good way to get started.
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You're asking this on the forums of a guy who put an elaborately disguised Pokemon vs. Zerg fanfic on the best seller list? People always bring up 50 shades, why not Codex Alera? Going back further, any retelling of Arthurian mythos, or anyone who writes a new version of the Odyssey is essentially doing fanfic. Just because the ideas are not original doesn't mean it isn't "real writing."
I think the only problem is when people try to cleave too close to canon, particularly with ongoing series where as new information develops, they end up altering their vision to fit with the new material. That puts great constraints on your creativity and often causes logical knots as people try to change their work to reflect changes in another work.
I'm actually rewriting a fanfic of mine into an original work. What I'm doing is definitely "real writing," at least to me. At this point it still bears a lot of resemblance to the original piece, but it's rapidly evolving into something new. I'm no longer worrying about making it fit with canon because it's not the same. The fact that it was once a fanfic was just a good way to get started.
People bash Fifty Shades for being primarily porn, what fanfic is really known for, and for being a bad example of how to BDSM(apparently) Alera just has concepts borrowed from other places, something far more acceptable. And I can't even really call Alera based on Pokemon. We sse them act like Pokemon like twice. It's more like X-men vs Zerg vs Furries. But it has a good story and original enough worldbuilding.
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So, the initial question...
Fanfiction: is It Real Writing?
The answer is "yes". Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Just look at other forms of media...is a photographer any less an artist, even if the model she is photographing is wearing clothes someone else designed? Is a classical musician--who, after all, is just interpreting Mozart and Bach and all the rest and not actually producing new original works--not a musician? Don't be silly. Thus, fanfiction is "real" writing. In fact, when you get to TV show script writing and comics writing, all you're doing is playing in someone else's worlds anyway. The Avengers and the three Batman films recently were pretty popular as I hear it. ;)
It's just that, in this world with the laws we have surrounding transformative works, it's damn hard to make a living out of fanfic based on novels unless you happen to do fanfic of a work that's out of copyright, like the Wizard of Oz series (which inspired the novel Wicked, which inspired the musical Wicked), or you have the drive to get into a shared world. (Although John Scalzi recently managed it, with Fuzzy Nation...he wrote the fanfic, then approached the original author's estate and got permission to publish it. Lucky him!) Since it's difficult to sell fanfic, and it's derivative, people like to think it's not real writing. Also, fanfic has a low barrier to entry, money and skill-wise, so it gets a plebeian reputation, because a lot of newbies show just how little they absorbed in their school English classes, and the other half write a lot of porn, which is fun at first, but eventually gets tiring and often squicky. So it gets a bad rep.
I write both original fiction and fanfic. I started writing original fic when I was 10 or so, and continued that until my mid-twenties. I did do fanfic in my head at that time, but generally didn't write it down. Then in my mid twenties, I began doing a lot of Dragonriders of Pern fanfic (see D. M. Domini on AO3 and fanfiction.net).
Writing original fiction taught me a lot about worldbuilding from "scratch", and character building from scratch. When I began writing fanfic too, I was able to bring those qualities into fanfiction from the start. However, one thing I was struggling with in original fiction is planning and long-term execution--the world and character building take up SO much brain time it's unbelievable, and it's very easy to get stuck on that. With fanfic, you DON'T have to spend all that time world building. You don't even have to describe the characters much--you rely on the reader having read the original series. And this, for me, makes writing fanfic incredibly easier--AND also allowed me to, for once, focus my efforts on plot, and setting up scenarios. I can't tell you how much this has helped me hone my skills in this area, and how much it's helped my original fiction...once I became less scared of outlining in my fanfic because I had brain cycles left to spare for it (I really, REALLY didn't want to box myself in, in my original fic!) it's let me progress on the original fiction. So doing both has been win-win for me. Also, with the fanfic, I've started to learn to deal with criticism, and how to measure the worth of a negative comment. Some people are talking out their asses, but others have good points and give good input. It's nice to learn how to deal with both.
There's good fanfic out there, there's bad fanfic out there. I think fanfic is an awesome learning tool. I don't think, if you want to be a writer, you should ONLY focus on fanfic because, again, the setup of fanfic is that you don't HAVE to world build, you don't HAVE to create characters from scratch and those are good skills to have too. But I'd never say a fanfiction writer isn't a real writer, or that it's worthless, or that all fanfiction is drek. It's not. It's not that black and white. It's just, as a reader getting into fanfic, you are exposed to the Slush Pile you generally are insulated against in the pro book world , so it's easy to say it's all crap. I'm sure agents and publishers can tell stories of just how much bad original fiction THEY see and pass on all the time. :)
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Of course it's 'real' writing. Every narrative is important, if only to the author.
One word after another is how stories get made. Never let anyone tell you different.
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Of course it's 'real' writing. Every narrative is important, if only to the author.
One word after another is how stories get made. Never let anyone tell you different.
I'm not sure being that solipsistic is a win condition; writing purely and utterly as works for you si all well and good if it's therapy, but if you want to connect to people and possibly even make a career of it, a degree of paying attention to the outside world is kind of essentialled as well.
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Wow, a visit from Cyclone Jack. Welcome back. (Long walk about this time. :-) )
Yes, fanfic is writing. I don't wish to read any myself, but as CJ says, one word after another... It isn't a bad place to begin. In fact, it was my 2nd DF fanfic that I looked at and realized, "Wait. This isn't half bad." After further contemplation and being inspired by JBs writing blog, I decided to become a writer-writer. I joke that it would have been an easier life if JB had just used my ideas and let me get on with mine. Instead, it has been an incredible journey.
So yes, of course, it is writing. Have at it, but be challenged to move into your own worlds, be challenged to expand your horizons, and be challenged to learn, learn, learn.
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Yep, fanfic is writing. It's just that most of the time you can't make a profit on it. For Avery long time the majority of fiction was more or less fanfic. Endless stories spun off from the Authurian mythos, the Sage of Roland, and the Christian Bible. And if you ate demanding that creating your own universe / world is part of the definition of 'real writing' then all historical and current world fix, especially centering on real people, sorta gets classified as fanfic! And we don't even have to postulate AU as many historical fiction books include events that really happened, not just 'possible recreations' as the babble calls it. Heh - 'Gone With The Wind,' 'Cleopatra,' etc classified as fan fix...lol!
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Not to mention anything that takes place in a shared universe, like Star Wars novels, Darkover, Forgotten Realms, anything comic book related, etc. These are all essentially approved and published fanfics.
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I started writing with AU fanfiction and found it wonderful for building writing skills. I used a well known fictional universe and played with the characters, adding plenty of my own. It gave me practice and confidence. And courage. Because about halfway through the series, I discovered I had no more use for a canon character. None. So I killed her. The reactions I got were all positive, possibly because I handled the surrounding characters in ways those characters would have reacted, maybe the community realized that I couldn't do anything more with that character. But writing AU fic, also gave me more mobility with the scenes and characters, which was important, because the fanfic idea started with a what if scenario. What if such and such had happened instead of. . .? It worked out nicely, in the end.
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YES. Yes it is.
It's an art that literally goes back hundreds and hundreds of years if not thousands. (Noted authors were part of a Sherlock Holmes writing group, etc.)
It is just as valid as 'real' fiction. For the majority of us, we put ALOT of effort into what we write. As someone who's written over 240 fics, I can definitely say I've put alot of effort in (I've written a few series--I have alot of fandoms I like--and many one shots and the like which can get lengthy.)
It's another way to see things, try things. Although when reading fic you know most of the characters involved, you are building a world from the ground up. And as someone who values characterisation most, you have to work extra hard to keep them IC.
For me fic also gets me inspired to work on my own stories. I'm currently working on my first book. I haven't forgotten fandom though, been in it too long and I have so many of them.
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(Though don't start me on Homestuck fandom.)
Yes, the Homestuck fandom is quite complex lol.
I thought you were into HS! Your icon 1mm3d14t3ly m4d3 m3 th1nk of T3r3z1 lol.
I myself got into it a few months ago on a friends recommendation. Are you caught up with it?
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Yes, the Homestuck fandom is quite complex lol.
mmm. I was thinking more, composed largely of young teenagers, who fairly visibly span the entire range of maturiity and social cluefulness that one might expect of young teenagers; myself, I am going to be 40 this year, and the things I get out of it and like talking about with relation to it are probably not the same as the things many of those young teenagers are connecting to. (Intelligent time-travel that's not afraid of being complex for the win. Also, metafiction for a better tomorrow. But drawing trolls... not so much me.) It also strikes me as a very weird outlier in terms of how I think about fanfic generally because of the extent to which Hussie embraces and trolls his fandom.
I thought you were into HS! Your icon 1mm3d14t3ly m4d3 m3 th1nk of T3r3z1 lol.
I used to use a Rose one some time ago, as a couple of my friends seem to think I have a lot in common with Rose.
I myself got into it a few months ago on a friends recommendation. Are you caught up with it?
Yep; have read the whole thing twice.
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I used to use a Rose one some time ago, as a couple of my friends seem to think I have a lot in common with Rose.
I like Rose. Took a little bit for her to grow on me but I really like her now. I think she has had great character development. And I think the Rose/Kanaya pairing is sweet.
Yep; have read the whole thing twice.
Awesome. I'm in the process of re-reading it for the second time, while also keeping up with the updates. (The Caliborn-Jake segments have been comedy gold. I love how Jake trolls Caliborn and it all going over Caliborn's head. ;D)
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mmm. I was thinking more, composed largely of young teenagers, who fairly visibly span the entire range of maturiity and social cluefulness that one might expect of young teenagers; myself, I am going to be 40 this year, and the things I get out of it and like talking about with relation to it are probably not the same as the things many of those young teenagers are connecting to. (Intelligent time-travel that's not afraid of being complex for the win. Also, metafiction for a better tomorrow. But drawing trolls... not so much me.) It also strikes me as a very weird outlier in terms of how I think about fanfic generally because of the extent to which Hussie embraces and trolls his fandom.
That's a good point.
I'm not quite a teenager anymore either, though I do understand a few things as well. I couldn't draw any Trolls even if I wanted to--I suck at drawing unless looking at a picture of something.