Mechanically, when you break the Laws of Magic you end up gaining power -- specifically for breaking that law again (that's why they're negative refresh).
I think it would require a fair amount of tuning all over to get the tone and feel of play more into the right pocket for supers. It's not just a case of "ditch the flaws".
If you're willing to venture at all off topic, though, I'm curious what you think are the key areas for tuning such things?Yep, those are a big part of it. For starters, you'll also want to eyeball your philosophy of weapons and armor (in terms of stress bonuses), your notion of how fast consequences recover, how much you want to locate the implementation of superpowers in the skill bloc versus extensions like stunts and powers, what sort of forced movement options you want to fold into the combat system (e.g., knockback and other superheroic effects), how you want to represent ludicrous amounts of strength ("I'll hold up this falling skyscraper!") in ways that scale appropriately to your genre...
My guess would be that by tuning refresh rate, stress boxes, and skill selections you could get pretty far. What are the other things you find/anticipate have to bend or break when you're tuning a Fate 3.0 instantiation?
Thaumaturgy to slowly boil someone's blood. Strong link, should be fairly low power and it's WAY less flashy than ripping their heart out.
but I'm curious if the power level of, say, Evocation is in part dependent on the fact that you're not allowed to kill people.
So... how does this work in Fate 3.0? To get back to the topic at hand, if we are closer to option two, it means that you can't really ever throw aggressive evocations (say, like beams of fire) at other humans because you risk killing them - in other words, you can't use it to soften them up - not without risking breaking the laws of magic.
Setting up a sucker punch might be a maneuver with a free tag. In that case, it adds 2 to the above example. That's 5 beyond the base stress track. I don't know which stress reduction model DFRPG is using for Consequences, but using the normal 2/4/6 structure that seems common among FATE hacks, that means a serious Consequence and the track almost full. That's bad.
Ah, I didn't realize that you were using roll up type stress. I had figured from comments made about the faster conflicts rules for SotC that y'all were using a stress as HP type model.
Also, Fred. When you talk about being "Taken Out", and that the person who hits you gets to define your defeat, this means that it's wholly possible to shoot a mortal in the face with a Gout of Fire and not kill them. Because you can say "He doesn't die" when you take him out, you can conceivably throw around all the force you want, and just never opt to kill. Right?Sure. But there's no problem there, as far as the system goes. The GM could compel you in that moment to kill instead of maim. The opponent could concede the fight -- by dying. (Concession is how the victim can end the fight early, defining how HE exits the fight. That includes saying 'Here, I die.') There's a lot in the toolbox here, and in Fate, we prefer to make death a discussion instead of an act of capricious randomness.
You do not get penalties. The minuses are how much the Consequence reduces incoming stress and nothing more.
You do not get penalties. The minuses are how much the Consequence reduces incoming stress and nothing more.
2/4/6 means that you reduce incoming stress by an amount corresponding to the Consequences you take. Say someone hits you for 3 stress and that's enough to take you out. You take a Minor Consequence, which reduces that by 2, to 1. Now you fill the 1 stress box, have a Mild Consequence, and you're still in the fight.I thought you coudln't be taken out until you've had all 3 consequences filled. So, how does that come into play?
No direct penalties, but those Consequences are expressed as temporary Aspects that can be tagged by your opponents or compelled by the GM.
Sure. But there's no problem there, as far as the system goes. The GM could compel you in that moment to kill instead of maim. The opponent could concede the fight -- by dying. (Concession is how the victim can end the fight early, defining how HE exits the fight. That includes saying 'Here, I die.') There's a lot in the toolbox here, and in Fate, we prefer to make death a discussion instead of an act of capricious randomness.True, but then concessions have to be accepted. I think?
I thought you coudln't be taken out until you've had all 3 consequences filled. So, how does that come into play?
Or, that when you GET a consequence, it reduces the stress? (I.e. You have 2 empty stress boxes. You get hit for 3 stress: so you take a Mild consequence, and fill in 1 stress box?)
Because if that's the case, that you have 2 stress boxes, you have a total of "5 stress" (you fill 2 stress boxes, then the next three hits and you're done", right?
I don't think anybody has explicitly stated yet: The worse the consequence is, the harder it is to heal. So a minor consequence might be "winded" which goes away as soon as you have a chance to...well...take a breather. But a more serious consequence would be "bullet wound in the shoulder" and in both system and fluff terms that's going to take longer to heal, obviously. So you could spend multiple sessions running around with an extra taggable, assessable, compellable aspect of weakness.So the SotC rule that if you have a back-to-back session (Hence, no down time to heal up) at all, a consequence doesn't downgrade in DFRPG?
Maybe your girlfriend leaves you because of the horrible disfigurement, I dunno.So would Harry's hand constitute a -8 consequence? Even though he seems to be healing just fine after (what, five books?). I would think he wouldn't have the Aspect any longer.
Is... is that correct Fred?!
<Expletive!>
I don't consider those to be penalties. Consequences add ways for you to gain and spend FPs.
So the SotC rule that if you have a back-to-back session (Hence, no down time to heal up) at all, a consequence doesn't downgrade in DFRPG?
Mild consequences cancel out 2 stress. They last for one scene after recovery starts. (Examples: Bruised Hand, Nasty Shiner, Winded, Flustered, Distracted.)
Moderate consequences cancel out 4 stress. They last until the end of the next session after recovery starts. Think of things that are bad enough to make you say, “Man, you really should go take care of that/get some rest.” (Examples: Belly Slash, Bad First Degree Burn, Twisted Ankle, Exhausted, Drunk.)
Severe consequences cancel out 6 stress. They last for the next scenario (or two to three sessions, whichever is longer) after recovery starts. Think of things that are bad enough to make you say, “Man, you really need to go to the ER/get serious help.” (Examples: Broken Leg, Bad Second-Degree Burn, Crippling Shame, Trauma-Induced Phobia.)
So would Harry's hand constitute a -8 consequence? Even though he seems to be healing just fine after (what, five books?). I would think he wouldn't have the Aspect any longer.
Ok, just to jump into the middle of this and muddy things a bit more. How many Stress positions (sounds like there should be a pg13 rating attached) do you have? Looking at the Harry Dresden character sheet (http://www.dresdenfilesrpg.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Harry-Dresden.pdf) he has 4 open stress circle thingies in both Physical (Endurance) and Mental (Conviction) but only 3 in Social (Presence).
His skills in these are Conviction (5), Endurance (4), and Presence (1).
Can you explain (preferably in little words) how the skills match up to the Stress Tracks?
As I understand the incarnation in DFRPG, you are taken out if your stress track fills. Taking Consequences reduces incoming stress. You may choose to allow a hit to take you out without taking any Consequences at all, or you may take them until you've taken your cap of three.
Point of clarification: In DF, are you taken out when your (two) stress boxes are filled, or when your two stress boxes are filled and you take another stress that you can't prevent with a consequence?
They last until the end of the next session after recovery startsHoly crap. I thought that they lasted until you got something like, well, rest. They last an entire session? Even if say, there's downtime (like in the books, where there's the period Harry gets a bit of sleep and can eat a sandwich)?
5+ points gives you an extra mild consequence slot of that type only on top of your 4 stress boxes.
Conviction ties to mental stress, Presence to social, Endurance to physical.
Base length of each track is 2.
1-2 points in a skill gives you 3 boxes instead of 2.
3-4 points gives you 4.
5+ points gives you an extra mild consequence slot of that type only on top of your 4 stress boxes.
Aha! Very cool, that has a nice flavor to it (kind of like getting a free stunt for taking a somewhat passive skill as one of your peak investments).
But what does Wizard's Constitution actually impact, then? From a balance standpoint I should have guessed it wasn't where the consequence was coming from ("zero cost? I'll take three!"), but it's not obvious what else a "constitution" stunt would impact.
Holy crap. I thought that they lasted until you got something like, well, rest. They last an entire session? Even if say, there's downtime (like in the books, where there's the period Harry gets a bit of sleep and can eat a sandwich)?
This means you can only have like maybe three conflicts per scenario, or else you're going to kill your party.
Holy crap. I thought that they lasted until you got something like, well, rest. They last an entire session? Even if say, there's downtime (like in the books, where there's the period Harry gets a bit of sleep and can eat a sandwich)?
This means you can only have like maybe three conflicts per adventure, or else you're going to kill your party.
You've gotta pick your fights in the Dresdenverse, or you'll end up screwed.I wasn't making that connection as a player, but as a GM. The GM has to know when to make those unavoidable or "hard to avoid" conflicts, or pepper his adventure with only a few.
Oh, of course. My point was that those consequences had mechanical effects, but not of the "apply this modifier every time you roll dice" variety.
This means you can only have like maybe three conflicts per adventure, or else you're going to kill your party.