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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Drachasor on July 03, 2010, 04:38:32 AM
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Well, I was messing around with a bunch of ideas in my head and decided I wanted to see about making a Thor-like character. I think having him be Thor's son who largely wants to follow in Thor's footsteps, so to speak (e.g. thunder and lightning, hammer, fighting bad guys, but not copying his dad's deeds). For the purposes of the character, Thor is angelspawn of some sort (like the OW says most gods are), and a good guy who lives in the Nevernever. I think my character will have grown up in the Nevernever for a significant amount of time (I want to use "thees" and "thous" without my guy doing it as a fad). He's NOT an Emissary of the Asgard/Thor though, (Thor wants him to make his own way, but that doesn't mean his dad never asks for a favor...like any relative might).
Obviously the high concept is "Son of Thor". Right now I am mostly thinking about two issues. First, what's his trouble? I've thought of Like his Father before him (e.g. wants to be like dad), One of the Asgard (e.g. their enemies are his enemies and other such things), and "I am the Son of Thor!" (really dislikes concealing his identity). Anyone have other ideas?
Also, Toughness and perhaps Recovery powers make some sense, but what would his catch be? I have trouble thinking of something that makes a lot of sense here, best thing I got is "Unholy Power" such as hellfire, unholy water, etc, but that seems far from perfect. Any thoughts there?
I'm pretty early in the creative stages, obviously, but I thought some people might have some neat ideas to share, so share away!
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I've seen Holly mentioned to be a good Norse themed catch.
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We have a norse-god-scion type character in our Group. He'S a lots-of-greats grandson of Heimdall.
Mistletoes are his catch.
There is the story of Baldur in the Norse Myths about how he was invulnerable to anything but mistletoe, so we extrapolated that to norse deities in general.
It would be a +3 catch (easy to come by, but not always at hand +2; researchable +1)
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Mistletoe is good, but I'd only give it +2, it's harder to get ahold of than Iron, probably closer to Holy Water.
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Naw, Holy or Mistltoe are definitely +3 or even +4.
Research isn't THAT tough. It's a little harder than cold iron for Fae (though probably about the same difficulty as realizing cold iron = iron in any form). Certainly doesn't require access to any remotely hard-to-get books. Heck, you can google it, and in the Dresden-verse it would probably be a bit easier since the creatures actually exist (which means more lore). So that's +1 or +2.
Access is also done in very general terms. The +1 is for VERY rare stuff like true magic, and any plant an average person would know the name of is not that. Iron is a bit easier to get, but it isn't hard to get mistletoe, plenty of shops sell it. Definitely not something that's "only a rare class of people in the world have". This one actually makes me lean towards +2 for Research as well when you think of the difference in scope between +1 and +2 for research "relatively easy to get" vs. "very hard" (and the third category in both is "almost impossible.").
These are very wide categories, one has to remember.
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I'd say Mistletoe is +2, like Deadman says. Its not something thats immediately obvious to folks who are in the know, so it would require a bit of research, and thats a +1. It isn't too hard to get ahold of mistletoe, but I wouldn't give it a full +2 because getting it into any form that can be used as a weapon, and thus making its satisfying the catch actually mean anything, would take a bit of work.
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I'd say Mistletoe is +2, like Deadman says. Its not something thats immediately obvious to folks who are in the know, so it would require a bit of research, and thats a +1. It isn't too hard to get ahold of mistletoe, but I wouldn't give it a full +2 because getting it into any form that can be used as a weapon, and thus making its satisfying the catch actually mean anything, would take a bit of work.
Actually, getting it into a form of a weapon is easier than other things. Smear the sap of the plant on whatever weapon you are using should do fine in a pinch. In a number of ways that's easier to use than iron, since you can add it to almost any weapon short of magic.
And it doesn't have to be immediately obvious to anyone. It just has to be easy to fine out. I think this qualifies as easy, especially in the Dresden-verse (not obvious that this is the case from the books, of course, but that's because it never comes up). Now, if the group decided that you would need something about as hard to get as a wizard's library to find this out, then that's a +1. I base my +2 on the fact you can google the information (hence it isn't that hard to find out), and adding in the fact that in the RPG world it wouldn't just be a Baldur thing (which would be close to a +0 during Bladur's time, since it only applied to him). For game purposes we are expanding that real-world lore to cover more stuff, so one would presume the knowledge would expand. In any case, I see how one could come down as +1, but in that instance the GM should make sure the info as easy to get as the Baldur info is.
All that said, I'm not entirely happy with using this as a catch. It does feel a bit odd, aesthetically speaking.
Hmm, we just going to talk about catches here or does anyone have any thoughts on the other stuff I wrote?
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Making it into a mistletoe tipped arrow or making an arrow directly out of it (like Loki did to kill Baldur) isn't that hard.
Heck, it would suffice to wrap it around the next best baseball bat and voilà you have yourself a mistletoe-club.
Getting Mistletoe is easy, for that matter, getting holy water is just as easy.
Priests of any kind of faith are easy to come by, so Holy water would be a +2 for accessibility as well.
+1 for researchable is more than reasonable. You could even go to +2, but I like to take the fact into account that people need to realize what you are before they can search for your weakness. And norse-myth Nature is not something that's blatantly obvious.
So, +3 (maybe even +4) I stand by that.
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1. On the refund it comes down to what your GM decides (in the best case together with the rest of the group). For our Heimdal-Scion we decided that +3 is appropriate and as the GM of this particular group I'll sooner or later scale the opposition accordingly.
2. Might I suggest that you not make him a direct son of Thor? The reason for that is, that there are tons of children of Thor mentioned in the norse myths, particularly in the "Edda". All of these children (namely Thrud, Magni and Modi) are very powerful beings on their own. They are so powerful in fact, that even a submerged power level couldn't handle them.
3. If you decide to make him a son of Thor. Who is his mother? If it's Sif, then you could use that for an other aspect. If it is some other mythical person, then that might be an aspect like CHILD OF A GIANT/DWARF for example. An other possibility is that the char might be the son of a mortal woman and Thor. Those old gods liked to spread it around apparently...
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+1 for researchable is more than reasonable. You could even go to +2, but I like to take the fact into account that people need to realize what you are before they can search for your weakness. And norse-myth Nature is not something that's blatantly obvious.\
Faeries are often far from obvious. Distinguishing a demon from an Outsider or even some Fae isn't necessarily an easy thing either. If we're talking about PCs, then they are all going to look pretty human. If we're worried about the game effect, then I don't think a guy running around with a hammer and some lightning effects makes it THAT hard to guess. Anyhow, it is certainly no harder than figuring out someone like Kincaid is a demon. Yeah, some guys with a catch ARE easy to spot, but a lot of them aren't, as the books demonstrate many times.
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1. On the refund it comes down to what your GM decides (in the best case together with the rest of the group). For our Heimdal-Scion we decided that +3 is appropriate and as the GM of this particular group I'll sooner or later scale the opposition accordingly.
2. Might I suggest that you not make him a direct son of Thor? The reason for that is, that there are tons of children of Thor mentioned in the norse myths, particularly in the "Edda". All of these children (namely Thrud, Magni and Modi) are very powerful beings on their own. They are so powerful in fact, that even a submerged power level couldn't handle them.
3. If you decide to make him a son of Thor. Who is his mother? If it's Sif, then you could use that for an other aspect. If it is some other mythical person, then that might be an aspect like CHILD OF A GIANT/DWARF for example. An other possibility is that the char might be the son of a mortal woman and Thor. Those old gods liked to spread it around apparently...
1. Agreed. Particularly with research, I think, it decides on how you decide looking it up will work in the game.
2&3. That's why I was going to have the mother be mortal (probably a wizard). Though, I don't think the Asgard really fooled around much, now that I think about it (anyone know better?). Perhaps a grandson or something would be better if that's the case. Definitely don't want to deal with being pure god-stuff though.
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2&3. That's why I was going to have the mother be mortal (probably a wizard). Though, I don't think the Asgard really fooled around much, now that I think about it (anyone know better?). Perhaps a grandson or something would be better if that's the case. Definitely don't want to deal with being pure god-stuff though.
Oh they did! Thor not that much though. He basically kept to Sif (he had Thrud with her) and fooled around a bit with a giantess named Jarnsaxa, despite the fact that the giants are enemies of the Asgard (had Magni and Modi with her, who are supposed to get Mjölnir when the world gets reborn after the Ragnarök).
Don't think about it too much. If you want to play a son of Thor then do it. I'm sure and your group can come up with something that will make it possible...
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Guys, I used Holy Stuff as an example because it's specifically +2. Look at literally every single Denarian writeup, just for starters. Which is, BTW, why I only allow people with True Faith stuff to effectively bless holy water and such.
That said, with a re-reading of the books, you guys have convinced me that mistletoe should be +3, it is a mundane substance. My ruling it at +2 comes down to, well, where do you get it? I certainly don't know where my platers in my Las Vegas game were going to be able to get it mundanely (though I did assume the Scion of Loki in the group knew how to acquire some).
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Guys, I used Holy Stuff as an example because it's specifically +2. Look at literally every single Denarian writeup, just for starters. Which is, BTW, why I only allow people with True Faith stuff to effectively bless holy water and such.
That said, with a re-reading of the books, you guys have convinced me that mistletoe should be +3, it is a mundane substance. My ruling it at +2 comes down to, well, where do you get it? I certainly don't know where my platers in my Las Vegas game were going to be able to get it mundanely (though I did assume the Scion of Loki in the group knew how to acquire some).
Eh, no way +2 for holy things follows the rules. How are demons hating holy stuff not +2 all by itself as far as research goes? Holy Water and the like aren't that difficult to get either. I don't know. When they have True Magic as a +1, which hardly anyone has, it seems kind of silly to rate Holy Water and the like on the same level. I mean, you can order Holy Water on the internet!
As for mistletoe, that's not hard to get. Greenhouses are a possibility, but they are more easily obtained in occult shops. Yellow pages will hook you up. Alternatively you can order it on the internet as well.
I can see fudging either as +3 just due to the fact iron is super-easy to get, but I don't fathom how they could rate a +2.
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Eh, no way +2 for holy things follows the rules. How are demons hating holy stuff not +2 all by itself as far as research goes? Holy Water and the like aren't that difficult to get either. I don't know. When they have True Magic as a +1, which hardly anyone has, it seems kind of silly to rate Holy Water and the like on the same level. I mean, you can order Holy Water on the internet!
Except, the Denarians are hardly well-known, or obvious as literal Fallen Angels, so that explains the research. And we don't have any evidence that Holy Water made by someone without True Faith powers works at all. Harry's is all supplied by Father Forthill...who is a True Believer. In fact, due to Harry's discussion of why Holy water works (infused with a charge of positive energy) that actually makes good metaphysical sense, too.
And being a True Believer is easily as rare as True Magic.
As for mistletoe, that's not hard to get. Greenhouses are a possibility, but they are more easily obtained in occult shops. Yellow pages will hook you up. Alternatively you can order it on the internet as well.
I can see fudging either as +3 just due to the fact iron is super-easy to get, but I don't fathom how they could rate a +2.
I've actually already conceeded this point. :) But thanks for the listing, I wasn't thinking of occult shops or the internet (the second only because my PCs were under time pressure when they found out they needed it).
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And we don't have any evidence that Holy Water made by someone without True Faith powers works at all. Harry's is all supplied by Father Forthill...who is a True Believer. In fact, due to Harry's discussion of why Holy water works (infused with a charge of positive energy) that actually makes good metaphysical sense, too.
And being a True Believer is easily as rare as True Magic.
Actually, we do not have any hint that making Holy Water has anything to do with Faith powers...
True believers are the pinnacle of the power that Pure Faith can generate, and i'd allow any True Believer to make Holy water, but it's not a prerequisite.
It is Faith and Holy stuff and all, but basically every Priest can make it, it doesn't even matter which religion he or she follows.
So even if True Believers were as rare as true Magic users, which i don't think they are, Holy water/Stuff would be much more common.
Personally i'd have built the Denarians with a 3 point catch. +2 for availability +1 for researchable (and that would be more to find out what they are than finding the catch... once you know they are fallen angels the leap to holy stuff as a catch is quite easy).
But thats just me.
So, now i'll stop dragging this into a discussion about catches. That's not what the OP wanted.
@OP
Northern religion is something that has been on the descent for a long time. You could consider something along the lines of "Child of Times long past" as an aspect. Maybe he grew up in a mythical village without all that technical stuff, the huge crowds of people, and the generally high pace of modern life. Now he's supposed to learn the ways of the modern world... That would make him awkward in our society and make the thees and thous you wanted quite fitting.
Obviously that would be an aspect prone to change during his development. Maybe into something like "Keeper of the old ways" to denote that he now has come to grips with the modern world, but still clings to the Old Ways of Honour, Hospitality and the like.
But that's planning a bit far ahead I think.
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Actually, we do not have any hint that making Holy Water has anything to do with Faith powers...
True believers are the pinnacle of the power that Pure Faith can generate, and i'd allow any True Believer to make Holy water, but it's not a prerequisite.
It is Faith and Holy stuff and all, but basically every Priest can make it, it doesn't even matter which religion he or she follows.
So even if True Believers were as rare as true Magic users, which i don't think they are, Holy water/Stuff would be much more common.
And your basis for this statement is? The only Holy Water or other Holy Stuff we've ever seen, even among Wardens who fight the Red Court alot, is what Harry gets from Forthill. If it were that common, it'd be part of their standard gear, wouldn't it? I'll admit it's never stated outright but the evidence is compelling.
Personally i'd have built the Denarians with a 3 point catch. +2 for availability +1 for researchable (and that would be more to find out what they are than finding the catch... once you know they are fallen angels the leap to holy stuff as a catch is quite easy).
But thats just me.
If it were as common as you're suggesting, so would I. Which, since I tend to assume the folks at Evil Hat know what they're doing, would tend to indicate that it's not that common. Hence my current opinion.
So, now i'll stop dragging this into a discussion about catches. That's not what the OP wanted.
True enough. :)
In terms of Trouble, Tsunami's idea would definitely work, and do so well. Other possibilities are:
Honorable To A Fault - Thor's mostly an honorable sort, and a son of his might take this a bit further, becoming honor bound to do anything he says he will, and otherwise have it be a problem for him.
Protector Of The Weak - Again, Thor's a nice guy. Perhaps his son feels it necessary to walk in and save people being beaten up by bullies, assault Red Court strongholds to save their people, and otherwise behave in a generally helpful and protective fashion. Easily compelled to get him involved in just about any plot, and readily combined with the honorable idea above.
Something regarding a bad temper and/or arrogance is generally appropriate for demigods, but Thor's a nice enough guy to make that seem wrong to me.
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Obviously the high concept is "Son of Thor". Right now I am mostly thinking about two issues. First, what's his trouble? I've thought of Like his Father before him (e.g. wants to be like dad), One of the Asgard (e.g. their enemies are his enemies and other such things), and "I am the Son of Thor!" (really dislikes concealing his identity). Anyone have other ideas?
Why not combine all of those ideas and problems into something like "I Am My Father's Son". That gives him his being like dad whether he wants to or not, makes all of his Father's the Aesir's enemies his own, and also plays to him demanding his birthright from non believers and keeps him form concealing it from his and his father's enemies or others looking to use his family connections for their own purposes.