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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Whitestreak on July 22, 2010, 01:45:11 AM

Title: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: Whitestreak on July 22, 2010, 01:45:11 AM

I've been thinking about setting a campaign long before Harry is born.

Sometime around 1876.

If there were to be activity in western Texas or New Mexico, who would folks suggest as being around as NPCs?

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: Doc Nova on July 22, 2010, 01:49:43 AM

Heh, neat idea!

I wonder how far back Listens-to-Wind goes back?  Or The Merlin for that matter.

Cowl might be beginning his reign.

Of course, any Denarians (which definitely predate the 19th century) are fair game, although their hosts would likely have been different.

Similarly, the fae courts probably don't pay an awful lot of attention to the mundane world's calendar, so some of them might still be kicking, or maybe just starting their grab for power.

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: AsaTJ on July 22, 2010, 01:53:55 AM

Quote from: Doc Nova on July 22, 2010, 01:49:43 AM

I wonder how far back Listens-to-Wind goes back?

Jim has hinted at LTW and Ebenezer meeting around the time of the French and Indian Wars, so at least that long.

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: Morgan on July 22, 2010, 02:25:47 AM

Historic games are awesome, my first Dresden Files home campaign which has sadly gone on hiatus for the moment, was set in 1927-8 Gangland Chicago with a Looming Accord War between all the Supernatural Gangsters and a poor Werewolf PI and a Great War Warden standing in the middle of it all.

But I digress, as to your questions about an 1876 western style Dresden Files game. My question to you would be how historic do you want to get? Dealing with the Old West time period and location can bring up all sorts of questions on what the tone and genre your trying for is going to be. And keep in mind it is next to impossible to escape Westerns in all their various forms and their influence on Old West games. So what type of Western story are you trying to tell and emulate? Historical, Horse Opera Serials, John Ford, Howard Hawkes, John Wayne, Spaghetti, Louis L'Amour, Revisionist, Roy Rogers? Once you've decided that figure out how much Magic and Dresden Files weirdness you want to include in your game. Is this a game of Sorcerous Duels on Main Street at High Noon, or is it a subtler type of magic and feel you want to go with?

Take a look at the traditional Western Characters, Plots, and Tropes, and then throw in the level of Dresden Files arcane happenings you want to have. Villains can be Ex-Confederate guerrilla raiders who've made deals with demons to get their revenge on the Union. Ruthless cattle and rail barons using arcane means to achieve their goals. A corrupt Indian Agent who is stealing or binding the spirits of a tribe in order to break their treaties and take their land. All sorts of goodness for plots and ideas can come from mixing the Chocolate of Westerns with the Peanut Butter of the Dresden Files.

Now for some possible canon stuff, Red Court activity along the border. There isn't a Vampire War going on in 1876 but I'm sure the Red Court might be eager to make raids across the border. Also the area you're describing is eastern edge of the Skinwalker's traditional hunting grounds.

Many of the Senior Council Members and Wardens would be alive and kicking or maybe just coming into their power, Donald Morgan was old enough to have fought against Kremmler in the Great War so he could have been a cocky young apprentice in the late 1800s.

For notorious historical figures in the area at the time John Wesley Hardin is pretty hard to beat, I'm afraid you're a few years too early for Billy the Kid and the Lincoln County War though events that will lead to that will be just starting up. And you're five years away from the Gunfight at the OK Corral but that's in Tombstone, AZ anyway.  

Also you might want to check out some of Pinnacle's Deadlands line for one take on a supernatural western game, and there are a bunch of other western rpgs out there, and the internet and the history books to peruse and mine for ideas as well.

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: Remy Sinclair on July 22, 2010, 04:35:09 PM

Deadlands and Werewolf Wild West bother another RPG would be helpful with setting up a Supernatural Western. I am using some of the information in the book because of where I am running my game Modern day Albuquerque.

As for NPCs being around, Ebenezer would be. Ancient Mai, Donald Morgan, Luciano, the Merlin, Nicedemus and his cronies come off the top of my head.

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: black omega on July 22, 2010, 06:45:26 PM

Roy Rogers Files would be awesome.

We rode out to fight the Denarians.
In the wild and windy west.
Their vile howls pierced the darkness
But my six gun spoke the best.
Their four eyes were shot out
Leaving two for their black heart.
I brought them back for the reward. 
Their bodies piled high in the horse drawn cart.

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: Morgan on July 22, 2010, 06:58:58 PM

Hats off to you Black Omega that is made of win.

Of course now I'm trying to figure out Roy's focus items. Let's see (Guitar +1 Spirit Power), (Embroidered Shirt +1 Spirit Control), (Mystic Lasso ...)

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: Crion on July 22, 2010, 08:50:34 PM

As mentioned, the Deadlands line is a great resource; I don't reference the Western genre without it.

As for who is around, yes, the Council, the Denarians, and most of the Old Guard Wardens (including Luccio). The Raith family is obviously around, and relatively old (and by the comments Lara made in Turn Coat, I'm guessing she and Luccio met in the late 1700s). I wouldn't doubt Ortega would be around, as well as Arianna, and I'm with the others in that while there isn't a war, they would still be actively causing problems (especially with the issues between the U.S. and Mexico).

I also think that many of the biggest hitters of the White Council, Black Court, and possibly even White Court would still be in Europe, though. Remember the Stoker's Dracula won't be published for another twenty years, so the Black Court could quite possibly be the biggest supernatural threat, especially with how easily they can "reproduce."

I would suggest looking into Native American mythology/folklore, especially of the tribes that may still remain in that area at that time. One idea due to what I have posted below, the other in reference to a slew of "monsters" that may have still been prevalent until they were hunted and wiped out (akin to Dracula and it's impact on the Black Court, only with the prevalence of firearms, electricity, etc).

Or you could pull a page from Deadlands and have a renegade "tribe" of "Lost Sons" who wish to strike back at the White Man by any means necessary. . .including summoning an Outsider (whom they see as an ancient spirit, ancestor, protector, god, etc).

The following section is going to have some references to both Turn Coat and Changes:

(click to show/hide)

I can see Skin Walkers and other Native American "legends" still being prevalent in this time. Sure, the Native Americans were getting shoved into reservations and away from their usual lands, but I can see some old legends and creatures still holding power.

I reference this primarily because of Changes; the Gods of Endless Night were just Red Court Vampires who were very old and praised as Gods; who is to say another entity that was praised/revered by the Native Americans wouldn't reach a similar status but steadily lost power as the faith and member base was slowly being degraded, shattered, and destroyed?

Again, just a few ideas. I hope that helps a bit!

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: Remy Sinclair on July 22, 2010, 10:29:03 PM

Quote from: black omega on July 22, 2010, 06:45:26 PM

Roy Rogers Files would be awesome.

We rode out to fight the Denarians.
In the wild and windy west.
Their vile howls pierced the darkness
But my six gun spoke the best.
Their four eyes were shot out
Leaving two for their black heart.
I brought them back for the reward. 
Their bodies piled high in the horse drawn cart.

Zen that is cool.

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: Whitestreak on July 23, 2010, 01:20:05 AM

I'm thinking of using a sort of Louis L'Amour style setting.

There are wizards and monsters, but it would be like the modern Dresden Files. There probably wouldn't magical combat on the streets at high noon and there be the same reluctance to have the mundane folks get involved, but...

Most folks who encounter things would be willing to explain it away - this would be viable, I think, since this was also a time frame where there were more advances in technology, which folks could use to "explain" what had happened.

Of course, with the natives and Hispanics having lived in some of these areas for centuries, many of them know better.

Some of Louis L'Amour's stories edge into the western/occult fringes, too, so it might not be so odd.

I've also been contemplating a new Emissary of Power: River Guardians. There are thirteen of them, throughout the world, each with an Item of Power and they serve to protect the river of time. There will be folks who need major protection, and there will be those who simply need a little bit of assistance.

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: Arcteryx on July 23, 2010, 07:15:04 AM

I believe Rick Neal (great blog with lots of DFRPG goodness on it) has a game set in Old World Europe; I want to say Budapest but you'd have to head there and check. Its a great idea.

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: finnmckool on July 24, 2010, 07:10:06 AM

You can really explore lots of Native American beliefs and powers. You can have fun with the railroads, give yourself a little steampunk for measure. You can have a blast with all the different range wars, which could be between ANYBODY. Way out in the territories the law was a matter of who could afford the most hired guns, or who could bribe the most powerful politician. Lots of room in there for various "Powers" to contend. Plus, as I mentioned in the first place, the western expansion of civilization is going to bump up against some pretty wild parts of nature. I recall Bob mentioning Werebuffalo.

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: Whitestreak on July 24, 2010, 10:54:36 PM

I had forgotten the werebuffalo... ;D

Went to the main library in Sacramento this morning. It's indian folklore/mythology section is pretty sparse - most books of this type that they have are geared towards kids.

 ::) Looks like I'll have to start doing some *real* research as time goes on - emails and web searches, especially for New Mexico, Arizona and Texas.

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: FutureGameDesigner on July 26, 2010, 06:38:43 AM

Personally, I'm on board for stories based on John Wayne movies, reworked for as much crossover as possible, and fixed for compatibility with real old west history and culture.

My personal favorite is the movie Big Jake.  That thing was a wild west D&D adventure if there ever was one.

"Sure thing, Daddy."
*yanks his son out of the saddle into the mud and knocks the crap out of him*
"Now boy, you can call me sir, you can call me dad, and you can call me father, you can even call me a dirty son of a bitch...but if you ever call me Daddy again, I'll finish this fight."
-
"Mister...who are you?"
"Jacob McCandles."
"I thought you was dead."
"Not hardly."

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: Remy Sinclair on July 26, 2010, 05:40:45 PM

Some suggested movies for your theme these are some Westerns with Supernatural Twists:

• Grim Prairie Tales (1990): If you can find this rare gem of a movie worth seeing two men meet at the campfire and exchange Wild West Ghost Stories. This stars James Earl Jones and Brad Dourif.
• Purgatory (1999): Some outlaws enter a town and not everything is what they seem. This is an all star cast including Eric Roberts, Sam Shepard, Randy Quaid and Donnie Wahlberg
• High Plains Drifter (1973): This is a Clint Eastwood and well a mysterious stranger arrives in this town but there is a supernatural twist at the end.

Avoid the Jonah Hex film it is rubbish.

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: theDwarf on July 27, 2010, 06:04:19 AM

I am planning my game to be a "Roaring 20's meets Sky Captain" with gang warfare in full swing, dirigibles in the air along side older planes (fewer jets as larger percent of population & many captains of industry prefers boats, trains and dirigibles for some odd reason), steam powered cars, and so on, yet set closer to the "modern day" in many ways.

In other words, since Dresden is written in the style of Mike Hammer, etc, it feels more right in a similar era, at least when I am running it.  :)

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: Morgan on July 27, 2010, 06:59:11 AM

I'll second all of UltraTrolls movie suggestions especially if you can find them all. Grim Prairie Tales might be pretty tough to track down, but worth it.

You might also give Ravenous (1999) a try as well, it's a little earlier then the time period you were looking for, but an interesting take on a horror/supernatural western story.

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: Remy Sinclair on July 27, 2010, 02:19:34 PM

Quote from: Morgan on July 27, 2010, 06:59:11 AM

I'll second all of UltraTrolls movie suggestions especially if you can find them all. Grim Prairie Tales might be pretty tough to track down, but worth it.

You might also give Ravenous (1999) a try as well, it's a little earlier then the time period you were looking for, but an interesting take on a horror/supernatural western story.

Yes, Ravenous (1999), I was racking my brain trying to think of the title of that one. Sadly Grim Prairie Tales is not on DVD.

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: Stormtower on August 02, 2010, 08:31:38 PM

I'm not sure what folks should be around as NPCs, but the first thing that came to mind when I saw the topic was:

1.  A "supernaturally" fast gunslinger that spends many nights at the local brothel...
2.  A rumor of a phantom train that runs on certain nights.  Legend says if you see it, that you are doomed to death in 1 weeks time.
3.  An old copper mine in the hills that on some nights has strange noises coming from it that sound like men working with pick axes...problem is, the mine has been out of comission for many years.

I know it has nothing to do with historical figures for npcs, but maybe some plot ideas?

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: JosephKell on August 04, 2010, 05:02:37 AM

Quote from: Morgan on July 27, 2010, 06:59:11 AM

You might also give Ravenous (1999) a try as well, it's a little earlier then the time period you were looking for, but an interesting take on a horror/supernatural western story.

"Look who's coming.  Breakfast, lunch, and reinforcements."

*shiver*

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: Lanir on August 04, 2010, 07:35:28 AM

I'm kinda thinking Injun Joe might be busy. Based on some comments made about his past and since the time you picked is between the Trail of Tears and Wounded Knee, it would make sense for him to be dealing with complications somewhere around then.

For a fun little romp on the web that might give you some ideas go read Scryer's Gulch at http://www.meilinmiranda.com/scryers-gulch-toc (http://www.meilinmiranda.com/scryers-gulch-toc). It has a western setting with some supernatural background. I think you could use a lot of the elements in it as-is too. Although the White Council would want to crucify Annabelle (the main character) on general principle for binding a demon.

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: Whitestreak on August 05, 2010, 02:43:28 AM

I've been thinking about how to add some color to a historical game.

I'm thinking about adding these stunts (these are very rough, at the moment):

Gunslinger. Either add +1 to Alertness at the very start of a conflict wherein you intend to use a pistol, or roll against everyone else with Gunslinger to determine initiative. This is a Guns stunt.

Ropin' the Wind. With a successful roll you can lasso a target one area away. With the right equipment, you can stop/trip a target your ize or smaller. The right equipment means a western saddle and a trained horse [effective against creatures up to the same size as the horse.] This can also be used with specially rigged vehicles, like a catch truck in Africa. This is a Weapons stunt.

Teamster. Similar to Driving, this applies to animal drawn vehicles, controlling and basic care. This is a Survival Trapping.

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: JosephKell on August 05, 2010, 02:49:24 AM

Does Animal Handling already cover "Teamster"?

Animal Handling is a catchall for social interaction with animals, but isn't driving them tantamount to convincing them to walk?

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: Whitestreak on August 05, 2010, 05:18:17 AM

Quote from: JosephKell on August 05, 2010, 02:49:24 AM

Does Animal Handling already cover "Teamster"?

Animal Handling is a catchall for social interaction with animals, but isn't driving them tantamount to convincing them to walk?

I think using them with a wagon/cart is different than plain Animal Handling because you need to make sure that the animal(s) are properly harnessed - both for their safety and for maximum effectiveness - as well as knowing just what your wagon can be called upon to carry out. I know that backing a horsedrawn wagon is far more complicated than a car - some horses just will not back up, too.

I'm also trying to cover what I've faced in the past thirty years of gaming & GMing.

I've experienced PCs driving a stagecoach trying to outmaneuver a gang on horseback (*I* was simply trying to shoot at the bad guys ;D) & I did have a PC try to lasso a stegosaurus at one time. :o

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: finnmckool on September 02, 2010, 01:42:28 AM

Quote from: theDwarf on July 27, 2010, 06:04:19 AM

I am planning my game to be a "Roaring 20's meets Sky Captain" with gang warfare in full swing, dirigibles in the air along side older planes (fewer jets as larger percent of population & many captains of industry prefers boats, trains and dirigibles for some odd reason), steam powered cars, and so on, yet set closer to the "modern day" in many ways.

In other words, since Dresden is written in the style of Mike Hammer, etc, it feels more right in a similar era, at least when I am running it.  :)

Sounds like you should try a different Fate game, Spirit of the Century.

Title: Re: Historic Dresden Files
Post by: babel2uk on September 03, 2010, 10:53:20 AM

For Westerns with a supernatural twist, I'd also suggest "The Missing" with Tommy Lee Jones. The supernatural element is left vague enough for it all to be explicable in other ways, which is quite nice.