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Messages - Watson

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31
DFRPG / Re: Using Emotional Vampire and Incite Emotion
« on: October 28, 2011, 10:30:17 AM »
So one roll, double damage eh? Feed damage + incite damage . . .

That is not the issue here - Feed stress + Incite stress using the same roll is not possible. The most basic version of Incite Emotion does not allow for a mental attack (i.e. does not allow feeding to create stress, only to do a Maneuver and to Block).

The issue is the inciting of an emotion (thorough Incite Emotion, most basic version) and feeding (through Emotional Vampire) using the same roll.


32
DFRPG / Re: Evocation Move action
« on: October 28, 2011, 10:24:32 AM »
I like the idea of a targeting roll as well. Think of it as an invisible hand pushing in a straight line - if the target moved away, it will miss.

33
DFRPG / Re: Using Emotional Vampire and Incite Emotion
« on: October 27, 2011, 08:32:45 PM »
Feeding does not automatically equate to a game-mechanical attack action.

The actual feeding is described as "...a psychological attack..." which interpret as a Mental Attack that causes mental stress (as stress is mentioned under "The Taste of Death").

34
DFRPG / Re: Using Emotional Vampire and Incite Emotion
« on: October 27, 2011, 07:59:11 PM »
Inciting the Emotion (maneuvering) and feeding (attacking) done in the same turn using the same roll (which would be at a +2).

If the rules are read so that the +2 (from Emotional Vampire) is added on the Attack roll (from Feeding Touch) it gets even worse in terms of being too powerful.

In the second exchange, assuming that the Manueuver worked in the first exchange, the character can technically tag the Aspect from the first exchange for a +2, get a +2 as part of creating a new Aspect and then another +1 (from Feeding Touch).

Having it so that one can either create an Aspect or feed sounds good.

35
DFRPG / Re: Using Emotional Vampire and Incite Emotion
« on: October 27, 2011, 07:36:22 PM »
Huh.  I would simply not allow a maneuver and an attack as a single action.  Compare, for example, Blood Drinker - it's basically the same power, just physical instead of mental.  And it opens up with a maneuver to "draw blood", followed by allowing subsequent attacks at +1.  So I'd read the "inciting and feeding on it may be done as a single action..." part as being an example of "As a baseline, whenever you're near an 'eligible' strong emotion, you may draw in mild sustenance from it.  This... doesn't have much of an immediate effect."

In other words, IC, you're starting to feed.  OOC, you've made a maneuver, but have not yet attacked.  Any other interpretation runs into the game balance problems that have been discussed in this thread.

I completely agree in that the combo (Maneuver + Feeding Touch) is really powerful - too powerful for my taste. I think that this combo might have slipped through, or have not been found, during playtesting (or it could be that I have misunderstood the rules).

I might actually create a house rule that prevents a Maneuver and a feeding with a single roll (single action). If one compares Emotional Vampire with Blood Drinker, they are in my opinion about the same in potency even if one removes the ability to incite and feed using the same roll. The reason is that the Emotional Vampire has the ability to create mental stress (as an Attack) - the equivalent bonus for Blood Drinker would be the additional point of stress caused during a Grapple.

36
DFRPG / Re: Using Emotional Vampire and Incite Emotion
« on: October 27, 2011, 07:35:19 PM »
Yeah except incite emotions by itself can inflict emotional stress with upgrades. So you are saying once they have the upgrade they can do both then?

Yes, the Incite Emotion can be used to Attack, but only after buying the Lasting Emotion upgrade. The Emotional Vampire power allows for an Attack as well - and the rules say that using the Incite Emotion, the character can incite the emotion and feed using the same roll.

37
DFRPG / Re: AP Podcast - City on the River
« on: October 27, 2011, 07:20:17 PM »
Great - I listen to all the AP's with Dresden Files out there, so yours will be really interesting. I suppose that you will run your own adventures (as most other AP's have so far been about the Neutral Grounds scenario)?

One more note - it would be even better if the actual files would show up in the feed, thus be able to automatically download through mobile Podcast players.

38
DFRPG / Re: Using Emotional Vampire and Incite Emotion
« on: October 27, 2011, 07:08:13 PM »
What about the block function of Incite?

I think that the Block ability as part of the Incite Emotion is OK, as it does not get +2 to the roll (YS173 says "... do maneuvers at +2 to your roll"...) and I interpret 'Feeding Touch' to allow an Attack at the same time as doing the actual inciting (I read that as doing the Maneuver to add the Aspect - not the Block part of Incite Emotion).

So, as I see it, the Block part of Incite Emotion can not be abused in the same extreme manner as the Maneuver part (in combination with Emotional Vampire).

39
DFRPG / Re: Evocation Move action
« on: October 27, 2011, 10:59:14 AM »
Something that occurs to me (and I'm not entirely sure about this) is that with multiple targets we could almost treat it like a spray attack, splitting shifts of effort between targets.

This could work. A power 8 Evocation Move action would either move one human-sized target 4 zones or two targets of the same size 2 zones each. Note that the targeting roll needs to be split as well (even though the targeting roll does nothing more than enabling the spell to hit the target - any extra shifts does nothing).

40
DFRPG / Re: Using Emotional Vampire and Incite Emotion
« on: October 27, 2011, 10:48:14 AM »
In my upcoming game, where we have a WCV, I would probably rule that as long as the target already have one suitable Aspect, the WCV can not incite another [similar] emotion.

The "problem" is in this case that the WCV in that case would like to make the emotion a fragile Aspect (as that removes the Aspect after tagging it, thus enables the WCV to incite it again and create a new Aspect that can be tagged...). But if the player is reading the book and wants to exploit this, YS208 says "Obviously, if you established the maneuver aspect, you can end it whenever you want without a roll" which means that the player can end it at the end of every exchange, which ought to let the player incite the emotion again the next turn... The fact that it would be considered abusing the system is a different thing...

On the other hand, I suppose that the use of this combo is somewhat limited based on that the target must be able to feel the type of emotion that the WCV is trying to incite - trying to affect a BCV or a Denarian should not be possible.


41
DFRPG / Re: Evocation Move action
« on: October 26, 2011, 10:37:59 AM »
Also, consider that the target is blasted in a straight line - in a relatively closed environment, it might not be possible to move the target more than a single zone.

What I also wanted is to allow the caster to be able to cast this type of Evocation on himself (without being too powerful).

Using it on a whole zone is interesting - it is not what I intended and I think that would make it too powerful.

I have also think that the Evocation is quite balanced if using it to push a target a short distance directly into a solid object (sure, this could easily be solved by using a straight Attack, but I wanted the Move Action to be able to handle this as well). Let's say that a wizard want to push a target only one zone away, into a solid concrete wall (which we for the sake of this example have a border value of 20 = way higher than what the wizard can handle). The wizard summons two shifts to move a man-sized target on zone. Then there is the solid wall, so the target can not be pushed further. The wizard then adds 6 shifts of power to try to go through the wall (but obviously fails). The effect of the spell would be that, regardless of the defense roll of the target, the target suffers 7 shifts of stress (1 for the zone movement, plus 6 for the attempt to go through the wall = stress equal to the border value, regardless if the border is crossed or not). Compare that with an Attack spell of power 8, which generates 8 shifts of stress, plus any additional stress based on how much the caster beats the defense value (which is stress that is not added in the case of the Evocation Move action). I think that it still feels OK, what do you think?

42
DFRPG / Re: Evocation Move action
« on: October 25, 2011, 08:15:25 AM »
Hm.

After a bit of thought, I realize that this might or might not be abusable. It depends on how it works.

Question:

If I throw an 8 power push spell with 8 control at a normal-sized guy who defends with a Superb Athletics roll, what happens? Does his defense reduce the 4 zone push to a 1 zone push? Or a 2 zone push? And how much stress does he take?

It is a very good question. My initial thought is that as long as the "target roll" (i.e. the Discipline roll) is at least matching the defese roll, the evocation works as intended. If one compares with an Attack spell, the Weapon value is unaffected by the targets defense roll. So I would say 4 zones and 4 stress (if the same power would have been used to Attack, it would have been 8+3=13 stress and obviously no zones moved). Or is that too powerful? Other suggestions?

43
DFRPG / Re: Evocation Move action
« on: October 24, 2011, 09:07:09 PM »
Anyway, I really do like your solution Watson. Seems like it works.

Thanks very much, Sinker. As the characters do this type of Evocation in the books, I wanted it to be available in the game too.

I see it as a powerful force push. It shouldn't be too powerful if used on an enemy (compared to a regular Attack) and it should be dangerous enough for the caster in case he wants use it on himself.

44
DFRPG / Re: Evocation Move action
« on: October 24, 2011, 10:59:13 AM »
When I wrote the rules, I had the scene at Bock's where Harry blasts one opponent through the window and and out across the street.

45
DFRPG / Evocation Move action
« on: October 23, 2011, 08:04:38 AM »
As moving people and stuff with Evocation has been discussed (and used) in the books, I would like to be able to do it in the game as well. It should be possible to do, but certainly not safe. So here are my rules for rules in this regard (please comment!):

Evocation Move action
An Evocation that moves an object (can be the caster). Every 2 shifts of power moves a human-sized object one zone. All moves must be in a straight line. Every 3 shifts of power moves a "large" object (creature with Hulking Size) one zone. Every 4 shifts of power moves a very large object (like a car) one zone. Every Border crossed costs one additional shift of power. The Evocation causes physical stress on the target equal to the number of zones moved (to represent that the body is not meant to move that fast) plus one for each border crossed (to represent things like flying through a window). It is possible to reduce the stress generated by one for each additional shift of power. The target is normally resisting using Athletics.

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